From the horses mouth - soccer coverage in Canada

[Duane Rollins1555362254]

I had an interesting exchange with a Canadian sports journalist that makes way more money than me about the state of soccer coverage in Canada. The “conversation” happened on a discussion board dedicated to sports journalists. I think it adds value to our discussions, but I am respectfully asking that people not try and figure out who the conversation was with and, if they do, not directly interact with the individual about it—although they posted it in a public forum, they were responding to an audience of other sports journalists.

It’s unlikely that anyone on here from Canada would not know this person—however, I’m not prepared to “out” him.

It started with my response here:

quote:The over/under will be 1. Bet the under.

Hope you kept your money in your pocket...

[/soccer fan that gets a little sick of old, tired, clichéd jokes]

but it is funny ... every damned time i hear (read) it.

To each their own. Before you write it just make sure you aren't turning off more readers than you are making chuckle.

I hate NASCAR, but I appreciate that the redneck nation jokes went out of style sometime around 1994. Soccer-haters...to each their own.

Anyway, to try and turn this into a somewhat serious journalism discussion, I sometimes think that we let our personal feelings about a particular sport impact our decision to cover them. In many markets in North America soccer has a big following yet soccer coverage is often nothing more than overused one-liners by the half-wit humor columnist.

Then there are the whole mixed-martial-arts-isn't-a-real-sport-and-I'll-be-damned-if-I-ever-cover-it-despite-its-massive-appeal-amongst-the-exact-demographic-we-as-an-industry-are-losing crowd.

One and the same...

He responded:

quote:

I think MLS is over-covered in North America. Here in Toronto, it's ridiculous how much coverage FC gets when you consider its TV numbers. Great fans at the games, but no one watching on TV.

I replied:

quote:

FWIW, working on the Six Nations I have a good understanding of the southern Ontario/GTA market as well…

I was referring to the sport in general, not specifically MLS. I would argue that the EPL/Serie A is as well followed in Toronto as are more traditional “Canadian” sports, particularly by young people.

My 27-year-old brother-in-law—who is white as snow—can talk your ear off about his beloved Manchester United and all of his friends are the same way. An anecdotal example, I appreciate, but when you couple those sort of examples with the 20,000 plus showing up to BMO every week to watch a truly awful MLS side…

Take a walk around the south end of BMO and you will be stunned at how young the crowd is. And talk to them and you will realize that it isn’t a flavour of the month thing either. They aren’t going anywhere (much to MLSE delight/confusion/dumb luck).

As for TFC’s TV numbers…they aren’t much worse (about 150k on CBC, 120k on Sportsnet. The Score’s numbers have been awful, you’re correct) than what the NCAA draws in Canada, but I don’t hear many people arguing for less March Madness coverage.

Ultimately if you were to have listened to many of the top guys in Toronto sports media—many of whom are your friends, I appreciate—six months ago you would have believed that the sport had no chance to succeed in Toronto. That clearly hasn’t happened.

In Toronto, sports editors ignore the sport at their own peril. Interest in it is only going to grow.

Now, I appreciate that Upper Armpit, Kansas is a long way from Toronto. I’m not suggesting that we shove the sport down the throats of those that clearly don’t care about it. Just know your market and cover what the reader’s want, not what you want.

That’s all. Pretty self-evident, don’t you think?

To which he replied:

quote:

I didn't bring up European soccer because I recognize its huge following. One of my big breaks was covering the 1994 World Cup for the Corriere Canadese (back when I was in print). I understand how popular the sport is in Canada.

Been to BMO for the Under-20 final, and it was hard not to notice the youth & diversity. And, I never heard any one of my media buddies say the team had no chance here.

However, I would argue that Toronto FC is nowhere near as popular even in its own city as European football. I think your brother-in-law is typical. Loves Man U much more than he cares about MLS (I saw it play the Thai national team in Bangkok, one of the amazing things I've witnessed). I have no problem with newspapers covering soccer. What I do think -- and the radio station is probably the worst offender -- is that they are devoting too much time and space to the soccer people aren't really passionate about.

[Duane Rollins1555362254]

To be clear this part was written by an American sports editor not the individual from Canada:

"The over/under will be 1. Bet the under. Hope you kept your money in your pocket...

[/soccer fan that gets a little sick of old, tired, clichéd jokes]

but it is funny ... every damned time i hear (read) it.

[JayWay]

I know who that is. The bit about writing for Corriere Canadese during the '94 finals gave it away.

I hang out with a bunch of baseball afficionados who think as little of him as I'm sure many soccer fans do (or will, after reading this...).

[Gian-Luca]

I don't know who it is, but I'm not sure I'd want to. If he feels the current level of coverage TFC is getting is "ridiculous", what does he want to see it reduced to? A paragraph or two-sized game reports in the paper? Also, which radio station is he referring to - not the FAN590 I hope.

By that token, is he suggesting that if TFC were playing to small crowds but getting larger tv numbers, that would warrant more coverage?

[Massive Attack]

quote:Originally posted by JayWay

I know who that is. The bit about writing for Corriere Canadese during the '94 finals gave it away.

I hang out with a bunch of baseball afficionados who think as little of him as I'm sure many soccer fans do (or will, after reading this...).

Do you mind emailing me with the writer's name.

Thanks.

[Free kick]

By observing the coverage on the game in its inauguaral season in TO, I have I found that its kind of easy to figure out who has an agenda and who doesn't. In that sence, its been a great year in many ways. I use the word agenda only because if it were any other sport, these types would be more than willing to throw in their two cents worth on anything regardless of whether or not their views are informed on that particular sport or topic.

Odd how they keep harping on the TV number when, every time I look, I have been quite impressed ( all things considered ) by TV numbers. To be honnest, if I didn''t have season tickets, even i would be reluctant to give an afternoion in summer on satudarday to sit in front of the TV.

Plus, are the numbers really all the different from waht basketball got in its early days. yet, NBA basketball was widely embrased by the media and they hypes it up to no ends.

[Duane Rollins1555362254]

quote:Originally posted by Massive Attack

Do you mind emailing me with the writer's name.

Thanks.

Figure out who he is if you want, but, again...

Since he made he posts to me and other sports journalists--as opposed to a general audience of Canadian soccer fans--please don't contact him about this.

[Massive Attack]

quote:Originally posted by MediaGuy

Figure out who he is if you want, but, again...

Since he made he posts to me and other sports journalists--as opposed to a general audience of Canadian soccer fans--please don't contact him about this.

I'm not planning to contact him or out him. I'm just curious.

This issue doesn't bother me anymore. The way I see it, any member in the sport media who refuses to pay any attention to soccer will eventually get left behind. Having a general knowledge in soccer will become a prerequisite for any sports journalist who wants to stay in the business (not including specialists).

quote:Originally posted by Free kick

Plus, are the numbers really all the different from waht basketball got in its early days. yet, NBA basketball was widely embrased by the media and they hypes it up to no ends.

TFC's season average ratings (at least those on CBC and Sportnet) are actually higher than the ratings the Raptors were getting early in the 2006/2007 season. It wasn't until the Raptors starting challenging for 1st place in their division did their ratings become more respectable.

Despite that, the TV numbers for TFC aren't really that great. But I think once people get into the habit of watching TFC on TV, they will get CFL/Blue Jays numbers. But this may take a few years to happen.

[Duane Rollins1555362254]

quote:Originally posted by Massive Attack

I'm not planning to contact him or out him. I'm just curious.

This issue doesn't bother me anymore. The way I see it, any member in the sport media who refuses to pay any attention to soccer will eventually get left behind. Having a general knowledge in soccer will become a prerequisite for any sports journalist who wants to stay in the business (not including specialists).

Which is essentially what I was arguing. The time when knowledge of hockey was enough is passing quickly. Hell, if you want to work in Toronto you had better know a little cricket, let alone soccer.

And, email me at dgrollins(@)gmail.com. I'll let you know who it was--so long as you keep it to yourself.

[Free kick]

I just re-read the comments, aside from his scepticism, I wouldn't consider anything that he said as "bashing" or totally off base.

[Juby]

Ray barrone?

[john tv]

They are still fighting like he..l and they really don't want soccer. Over all these years they have been brainwashed over and over again.Hey don't expect a catholic to become a protestant,it is that deep and I told you so,so many times.

We will just have to move on and hope that these TFC guys get their act straightened out.I know and I am sure that in the long run soccer will be the no 1 summer sport and it only makes sense anyway. Who cares about baseball and they are the only so called competition.The overall popularity also will eventually be soccer,combining the local and International stuff. It is to big and to entertaining as well.

This is by the way the stuff I have been talking and complaining about and again here it is and even in black and white and not from me.

[Gian-Luca]

quote:Originally posted by Free kick

Odd how they keep harping on the TV number when, every time I look, I have been quite impressed ( all things considered ) by TV numbers. To be honnest, if I didn''t have season tickets, even i would be reluctant to give an afternoion in summer on satudarday to sit in front of the TV.

Plus, are the numbers really all the different from waht basketball got in its early days. yet, NBA basketball was widely embrased by the media and they hypes it up to no ends.

I think the ratings are always going to suffer somewhat in comparison to the other sports because of the low profile of MLS in Canada, particularly outside of Toronto. It may build slowly, but it will take awhile, until there are more teams in Canada or until MLS gets shown on American stations that most Canadians get the same way that Baseball & Basketball are. I expect the former has a much greater chance of happening than the latter.

The TV ratings are just a stick for which people who don't like soccer to beat TFC (or whoever) with. I think if the print media based their coverage on tv ratings you could make an argument for a lot of sports to get less coverage. If everything got less coverage there would be less jobs needed and less journalists getting employed in general. You would think that having pro soccer re-join the Toronto sports scene as a major player would be something that would be welcomed with open arms by the print media to give them more stuff to write about. In some cases that has happened, but you still get the odd person who doesn't like the sport & wants to put it down. You can see this mentality with some sports fans as well - Gerry Dobson's most recent blog entry about what soccer in Canada might be like in the year 2015 had a whole bunch of people writing comments in response that soccer is boring & they hope pro soccer dies tomorrow. Why they'd go out of their way to read a blog on soccer & then post such negativity about it is beyond me, but that attitude is still there. Hopefully it continues to fade.

[VPjr]

I am not sure why media types make such a big issue of ratings. Does anyone know anyone with one of those magic boxes that keep track of what Average Joe Canada is watching. I have never seen one in my entire life. I have my doubts about how well these Neilsen Ratings reflect what people are really watching. When I see lists of the Top 10 most watched shows on TV on a weekly basis, I am always amazed by the fact that I haven't watched any of them.

The support for Toronto FC will take time to grow roots and in time, I expect that ratings will be decent, for what its worth (please get the games off the Score...PLEASE...absolute rubbish). We have a very strong base of support already. Was there really this much support for the Raps when they came to town? I doubt it because I was at most of the games way back when the Raps were playing at the Dome. However, in urban centers, I would argue that Hoops is as popular among the youth as hockey. Give TFC five years and then lets talk about where soccer ranks among the under 25 market.

Sports Reporters who dont catch on to the growth of soccer will be left wondering why they are writing stories about high school sports. better learn a little about cricket too because that is the next sport that will explode in the GTA.

[Gordon]

When I was a teenager, so, umnn, sadly 3 decades ago, we were a Nielsen family. Just randomly selected it seemed. No black box, just a little weekly diary in which we filled out what show we watched at what time and on what channel and which family members were watching. Fairly simple...I know I padded the viewership for the Rockford Files (and only the Rockford Files) by adding all family members to the list. Not really cheating so much as a selfless act of public service... You probably can't cheat the black boxes though...

[john tv]

It is so amazing all you guys are complaining about that media and yet not one of you has done a damn thing about it. I am the only one who has and even from you I get flag. Why don't you get united and make sure the media covers our guys. These guys are pretty pi..ssed of and wait till they find out zilch in the biggest paper in Canada and zilch from these so called fans. Shame on all of you. Come on guys phone or email that media. When i spoke to that guy at the Star he really sounded embarrassed and when i told him the chat lines were buzzing ,he said he would pass that on. Talking about it but not supporting our guys is a terrible joke,capice,do something and get organized.

[VPjr]

For once, i do agree with JohnTV. it might not make a whit of difference but it wouldn't be a bad idea if we did start flooding local media outlets with complaints when we feel our sport is not getting adequate coverage. They can ignore it if they wish but at least the complaint has been logged.

For what it's worth, I emailed GolTV and Sportsnet this morning and expressed my displeasure that neither of them bothered to show yesterday's friendly, not even on tape delay and I was particularily pissed that no one at GolTV never bothered to even have the decency to reply to my original email inquiring if they had plans to broadcast the game. A simple reply of No would have been nice.

[john tv]

Thanks VP but that is all I have been talking about it seems since Jesus was a corporal. I really don't know why we never got organized. Heck going back to the 54 board it seemed to be my daily pitch and I am still at it. Maybe I should start instigate a roll call and really get to the bottom of this thing. Guys I will never and I mean never give up, we must,must and must keep that media on their toes. They don't want us and will ignore us,meaning our MNT. That is what soccer is all about our MNT.That is also what every canadian should dream about. Anyway,do what I suggested and maintain a follow up.

I have been fighting this battle since 1975 and I am really getting tired and extremely lonely.

The real funny part is that what started me was my neighbour who called soccer a wob game and really showed no respect for the Italians. So here I was a crazy Dutchman and changed soccer in Toronto,thanks to those wobs. Don't even know how to spell that word and just as well.

So what do you guys think we should do,any suggestions and or recommendations.

Please please don't ignore this,it is so crucial.

Our guys need us big time.

[Soju]

John is right let's get vocal. We need to at least start getting a lot of E-mail complaints on record.

Can someone put a list of E-mails of media outlets we can complain to in this thread?

I'm starting to believe there's some kind of lazy old boys agenda in play here. Shouldn't sports writers embrace and in fact hype the coming of the world's most popular game to Canada? It seems they're looking for excuses not to cover it. TV ratings? Kiss my ass the glass is half empty. These guys have been so busy ignoring soccer over the years what do they expect.

[ag futbol]

Getting vocal is a great idea, some people are already doing it however. It's as simple as setting up a thread with a link to an article bashing soccer and then put the writers email below. U-sector and RBP have done it in the past. Steve Simmons recently wrote a column crying about how soccer fans were writing him rude emails, which he found objectionable. He followed up that with the "I covered soccer in 82" arguement.

As sad as this sounds forget writing some articulate responce to try and educate those that continue to bash the sport. At some point having 300 emails in your inbox calling you every word you can't print in the paper will wear on you. Think about it, Steve was upset that he was being ragged on in his inbox. He'll probably think twice before he does it again.

[john tv]

Not in Chinese we may get suspicious and even test it. Only kidding and that we always must maintain,make it fun and exciting that is life.Ooops back to Canada,Soju thanks so very much and if I can I put you in charge of making sure the chineese media will support soccer.Since it is a state controlled society you have the easy job, now about our guys in Canada.Soje a short for solution, thanks from the bottom of my heart this is the very first time I get some support and even action.All you guys just remember I am 70 soon and won't be around that much longer compared to all of you. You really must come to grips with this and make sure that we provide the backbone of our team. No one is going to mess with our guys and no one will ignore them.

So just to name a few and this is mean but anyway,grizz,monk and these are the guys I met and really respect an immense lot and admire their efforts in promoting Canadian soccer what do you think and what can you do to help our MNT in the media and ensure complete and total coverage including friendly games.A continuous full report on their successes as well as progress. The initial review of upcoming International games and proper and extensive review of the event. Attend all media conferences and report on their message.

[john tv]

quote:Originally posted by ag futbol

Getting vocal is a great idea, some people are already doing it however. It's as simple as setting up a thread with a link to an article bashing soccer and then put the writers email below. U-sector and RBP have done it in the past. Steve Simmons recently wrote a column crying about how soccer fans were writing him rude emails, which he found objectionable. He followed up that with the "I covered soccer in 82" arguement.

As sad as this sounds forget writing some articulate responce to try and educate those that continue to bash the sport. At some point having 300 emails in your inbox calling you every word you can't print in the paper will wear on you. Think about it, Steve was upset that he was being ragged on in his inbox. He'll probably think twice before he does it again.

Thanks AG,you know and hit it right on, I always maintained that these East Coasters know a lot do a lot and see a lot.I guess you have nothing better to do,oops only kidding I really know a lot better. Yes sir, these cocooned guys need a wake up call, soccer is here it is a world game, we can match with the best and we have a magic name in the world, Canada is respected more that anyone else believe me I really know.Thanks for going after that creep Simmons, there are a lot more that need that wake up call. In fact following your example we can drive them truly crazy if we want and maybe we do and maybe we deserve to do this and here is the magic one we must.

I guess we have started a discussion point that may very well change soccer in Canada and for the better.

Thanks so much AG futbol.

[Canuck Oranje]

My family was also selected to record for Nielson's about 15 years ago.

But the point is not about the popularity of soccer in North America, it was originally about the coverage of the MLS and the popularity of MLS in North America.

I don't think anyone with objective data would argue that soccer is not popular in North America. Unfortunately for MLS, the greatest attention in the sport in North America is on the World Cup tournament, top leagues, and on the grassroots. Other National team tournaments and MLS battle for fourth.

It is really comparing apples and oranges when you compare MLS to the NFL, MLB, NBA, or the NHL because the leagues in these four sports are acknowledged by virtually everyone in the world as being the top leagues in those sports globally. I don't think MLS is even close to that, at least today. I think most experts would probably put MLS somewhere between 10th to 15th best league in the world. And some would argue that even that is generous.

With that in mind, consider just how much media coverage the American Hockey league gets in Canada. Hockey is unquestionably the most popular sport in Canada and yet AHL hockey is barely on the radar outside of the communities that have franchises.

Again, the market for soccer is already here. The U-20 tournament has shown that. And yes support for Toronto FC has shown that too. I think it is important to distinguish between the popularity of MLS and the popularity of Toronto FC. Toronto FC is partly filling the void for a top quality soccer club in Toronto. The fact that it plays in the MLS is coincidental. For the moment, TFC is doing fine but the management of the team must not forget that point.

The soccer support in Toronto (and the rest of Canada for that matter) is much more developed than even TFC management are assuming. For the moment, TFC has been handed some unearned credibility both by fans and the media. At very least, the team needs to show visible and continuous improvement. The MLS must do the same. As well, TFC management needs to get even closer to the soccer community in Toronto and Canada (fans and youth soccer) because it is that link that will sustain the franchise if team improvement does not meet expectations. The arrogance that is shown sometimes will wear thin over time.

On the MLS, the league must convert single ownership and DP allocations to individual team salary caps. By doing so, individual teams would have more freedom to build a team that considers local market conditions. For example, what could TFC do if it had a salary cap of $7 million (roughly the current salary cap + Beckham's salary)? I'm not sure what they would do but I suspect the team would be much better than it is and would also have much better Canadian talent than it currently has. Most MLS teams would be much better too.

quote:Originally posted by VPjr

I am not sure why media types make such a big issue of ratings. Does anyone know anyone with one of those magic boxes that keep track of what Average Joe Canada is watching. I have never seen one in my entire life. I have my doubts about how well these Neilsen Ratings reflect what people are really watching. When I see lists of the Top 10 most watched shows on TV on a weekly basis, I am always amazed by the fact that I haven't watched any of them.

The support for Toronto FC will take time to grow roots and in time, I expect that ratings will be decent, for what its worth (please get the games off the Score...PLEASE...absolute rubbish). We have a very strong base of support already. Was there really this much support for the Raps when they came to town? I doubt it because I was at most of the games way back when the Raps were playing at the Dome. However, in urban centers, I would argue that Hoops is as popular among the youth as hockey. Give TFC five years and then lets talk about where soccer ranks among the under 25 market.

Sports Reporters who dont catch on to the growth of soccer will be left wondering why they are writing stories about high school sports. better learn a little about cricket too because that is the next sport that will explode in the GTA.

[Free kick]

quote:Originally posted by ag futbol

As sad as this sounds forget writing some articulate responce to try and educate those that continue to bash the sport. At some point having 300 emails in your inbox calling you every word you can't print in the paper will wear on you.

That, I agree with. Clearly, it looks like veiwpoints are cast in stone and you are not going to change anyone's mind. I see this debate as almost more political than it is about sport. And when it comes to politics, I have never seen anyone change someone else's mind in this way.

[Gian-Luca]

It probably makes more sense to write emails requesting more coverage rather than to complain about the lack of it.