Manny Gomez article

[loyola]

http://www.canada.com/victoriatimescolonist/news/sports/story.html?id=140132b5-68ec-4018-99d2-f00dcf975190

Islander still has national dream

Gomez sharpening soccer skills in Argentina awaiting call from Canada

Cleve Dheensaw, Times Colonist

Published: Monday, August 13, 2007

Knowing what we know now, Manny Gomez of Victoria might have looked good in a Team Canada uniform last month in the FIFA Under-20 World Cup.

Canadian coach Dale Mitchell's performance is still being dissected and grilled in soccer circles across the country after the host side failed to win a game, or even score a goal, in the U-20 World Cup.

The 20-year-old former St. Andrews student Gomez, overlooked for Team Canada despite playing pro in Argentina with the Premiership Tristan Suarez club, is among those who would like to see a more daring, offensive approach to the game in Canada. If you're going down, at least go down with guns blazing.

That's the Latin approach to the game and the way Gomez, a rising pro midfielder with his eyes on Europe, plays it. But it is a demeanour and viewpoint Canadian soccer has been reluctant to adopt as it sticks with a more cumbersome, defensive style.

"What happened in the Under-20 World Cup should be a lesson for the CSA [Canadian Soccer Association]," said Gomez, in an interview from Buenos Aires.

"Look at Japan. They could never beat anybody before. But now they have changed their mentality and are more forward-looking in their football. They brought in the right [overseas coaches] people, and right offensive-thinking attitude, and now they have elevated the level of their game."

Gomez was born in Mendoza, Argentina, and moved to Victoria with his family when he was two years old. Considered a prodigy when coming up through the Lower Island Metro system, Gomez was on the long list in the Team Canada Under-20 World Cup selection pool. He went on overseas tours with the national side, but was not picked on the final World Cup roster.

Not only was it frustrating sitting in Buenos Aires while watching Team Canada play rather ploddingly back home, but Gomez also had to sit and bear it in Argentina while that nation celebrated an U-20 World Cup title won with style and panache on Canadian pitches. Gomez has played against five of the members of the championship team.

"I am still upset with what happened in the U-20 World Cup," said Gomez. "Team Canada should have shown more."

Gomez, with his innate touch on the ball, is one of the more gifted recent players out of the Island. While Victoria was a shining host city during the Under-20 World Cup, Island soccer has slipped a bit on the pitch since the glory days of the 1980s when local players dotted Team Canada rosters with regularity, including Ian Bridge, George Pakos and Jamie Lowery at the 1986 World Cup.

Midfielders Josh Simpson, with Kaiserslautern of the German Bundesliga, and Martin Nash, with the Vancouver Whitecaps of the USL, are the likely Island-produced players who will be looked at for Team Canada in qualification play for the 2010 World Cup in South Africa. Although his experience at the Under-20 level proved unsatisfactory -- and the fact Mitchell was elevated to the senior Team Canada head coaching position even before his dismal showing in the U-20 World Cup -- Gomez still holds out hope he will be considered on the road to 2014.

"Obviously, I would still like to be involved with the national team," he said.

"It won't be easy but it's not impossible. I wouldn't be completely surprised if I was chosen in two or three years."

One thing is certain -- Gomez's career is now being forged in a soccer furnace.

If a coach loses four straight games here in Argentina, they usually fire him," noted Gomez. "It's a different culture. The fans are so into football here that they can get quite angry if their team loses, with threats even being made sometimes. It's a big thing here and so there is a lot of pressure on teams. It's a harsh business."

Gomez's dream, as for most emerging young pro players, remains Europe.

"If you don't want to improve and move on, there's no point in doing it," said Gomez. "That's the same in any profession or line of work."

No matter what Mitchell thinks, you get a feeling Gomez has that rare combination of skills and attitude to go far in soccer.

[loyola]

BTW, here's the wikipedia entry about his club:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Club_Social_y_Deportivo_Trist%C3%A1n_Su%C3%A1rez

"They currently play in Primera B Metropolitana, which is the regionalised third tier of the Argentine Football Association."

[jpg75]

Good work. Might want to post this in the Canucks Abroad thread on BS so Moaca can update it...

[loyola]

It's a bit weird since the writer is suggesting Manny is playing for a Premiership side when they are a third tier team....

I'll post this in the MOACA on BS.

[jpg75]

quote:Originally posted by loyola

It's a bit weird since the writer is suggesting Manny is playing for a Premiership side when they are a third tier team....

I'll post this in the MOACA on BS.

The league he plays in is called "Primera" ( afterall, so i assume he's just anglocizing...

[Guest Jeffery S.]

I wasn't sure about the level, but it is okay it seems:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Argentine_football_league_system

That would be like a third tier in any other strong footballing country, and as there are only two divisions it is not that watered down. Some teams now or frequently in top flight have been through there.

[rick10]

quote:Originally posted by Jeffrey S.

I wasn't sure about the level, but it is okay it seems:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Argentine_football_league_system

That would be like a third tier in any other strong footballing country, and as there are only two divisions it is not that watered down. Some teams now or frequently in top flight have been through there.

third tier its very low . Althought I assumed he may be better than most of the canadians that play that under 20 tourny , I doubt he will ever play the canadian mens team , since 3 division its just too low , even if it is the argentinian league.Plus he is already 20.

There was this other kid , jason quezada ( I think thats his name) , he played third division in chile too and he played in france , but it didnt last too long , now he does freestyle.

Same goes to david guzman , who went to peru to play for a profesional team, he was there for a year trying out , but he never made it .

[CanadasBest]

"The 20-year-old former St. Andrews student Gomez, overlooked for Team Canada despite playing pro in Argentina with the Premiership Tristan Suarez club, is among those who would like to see a more daring, offensive approach to the game in Canada. If you're going down, at least go down with guns blazing.."

Bring him to camp! That quote alone deserves a call-up. [8D]

[Grizzly]

quote:Originally posted by Jeffrey S.

I wasn't sure about the level, but it is okay it seems:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Argentine_football_league_system

That would be like a third tier in any other strong footballing country, and as there are only two divisions it is not that watered down. Some teams now or frequently in top flight have been through there.

I would imagine it would be weaker than most third divisions of major European soccer countries. Many of the big European soccer countries have large numbers of foreigners playing for them and teams that have fairly high budgets. I would think that the Argentine 3rd division is pretty much a domestic league. Even the top tier in Argentina is overrated because it is mostly a selling league and after the top few teams the quality declines rapidly. With the exception of River Plate and Boca most of the teams are made up of largely domestic players who if they excel are then sold either abroad or to River or Boca. Many of the top Argentine players are not playing in Argentina. Compare this to most big European leagues whose teams have the best players of their own countries plus large numbers of top foreign players.

He is only 20 though so if he can work his way up through the divisions in Argentina he could have a future with us. On the other hand I am not that willing to trust his own opinion and a journalist from the Victoria Times Colonist that Mitchell made a mistake by not calling him. Mitchell had a look at him and I have not heard any reports of him being particularly impressive. He didn't convince River Plate to keep him in their program either. In fact, they dropped him around the same time that Mitchell seemed to decide against using him so Mitchell's opinion seemed to be shared by a well regarded club team.

[Guest Jeffery S.]

quote:Originally posted by Grizzly

I would imagine it would be weaker than most third divisions of major European soccer countries. Many of the big European soccer countries have large numbers of foreigners playing for them and teams that have fairly high budgets. I would think that the Argentine 3rd division is pretty much a domestic league. Even the top tier in Argentina is overrated because it is mostly a selling league and after the top few teams the quality declines rapidly. With the exception of River Plate and Boca most of the teams are made up of largely domestic players who if they excel are then sold either abroad or to River or Boca. Many of the top Argentine players are not playing in Argentina. Compare this to most big European leagues whose teams have the best players of their own countries plus large numbers of top foreign players.

He is only 20 though so if he can work his way up through the divisions in Argentina he could have a future with us. On the other hand I am not that willing to trust his own opinion and a journalist from the Victoria Times Colonist that Mitchell made a mistake by not calling him. Mitchell had a look at him and I have not heard any reports of him being particularly impressive. He didn't convince River Plate to keep him in their program either. In fact, they dropped him around the same time that Mitchell seemed to decide against using him so Mitchell's opinion seemed to be shared by a well regarded club team.

Well since third tier in Spain cannot sign foreigners outside of EU players, and there are in fact very few, I am not so sure it is that higher than Argentina. And with four divisions in third tier in Spain that in fact waters down things a bit.

Also should note that Argentina does in fact have lots of foreign players, from other parts of S. America especially. So it is not just a feeder league, it is an important receptor of talent as well.

I agree though that if he can find a way into a higher tier or if the team itself can do very well then it may be worth taking a look at him one day.

[youllneverwalkalone]

However, he lasted a long time in the River academy. He's been on the MOACA list for some time. It's fine to say that Argentine clubs don't have European resources, but River produces top class talent on par with any European academy. This tells me he must be decent on the ball. Given his age, I wouldn't worry too much about the level of the current club.

If Mitchell is serious about raising his own level as a coach, a camp in Buenos Aires with some technical assessment/assistance from local coaches would be a great idea. The players would love the city and it's easy to get to from Europe and North America.

At this point, guys like Gomez, Rivas, and Schleer should definitely get a look given that they perform in the kinds of cultures that we need to be able to handle if we want to qualify.

[Cheeta]

Overall a pretty good "homer" article. But still pretty good.

I wouldn't be so cynical about the quality of the Arg lower levels. Can it be any worse than USL Div 1? And we've got a few lads who've been given a fair chance at the senior side based on no other strengths excepting their performances at Div 1 level. But then again, Argentina is a looong ways away. That's going to hinder any chance he has of playing for Canada whether he's deserving or no.

As mentioned Gomez is 20 though which while not encouraging could be neither here nor there. Some players are late bloomers. How old is DDR? The 1st time I have been really impressed with him as a footballer since the Pan-Am Games was at this years Gold Cup. That's a lot of years inbetween.

Best of luck, Manny.

P.S. Cloud still lingering over Mitch's head, eh?

[redhat]

Call up the kid, even just to be part of the MNT reserves.

If there is room on the bench, what can we lose? He'll benefit

from the older players and may even fit in an offensive system

with JDG, Atiba, and DDR.

At worse he may eat his words; at best he can be another Issey

Nakajima-Farran, an unkown entity until the Hungary friendly.

[ANC2]

Amazing. Someone dad writes an article about his son and now he should be invited to the National team. Has anyone seen him play? Was he not invited to the National team before, under Mitchell? Is he not moving downward in Argentina, a country with so many teams searching for talent due to the drain on their product.

[redhat]

quote:Originally posted by ANC2

Amazing. Someone dad writes an article about his son and now he should be invited to the National team. Has anyone seen him play? Was he not invited to the National team before, under Mitchell? Is he not moving downward in Argentina, a country with so many teams searching for talent due to the drain on their product.

I know what you're saying, but that's how Tony Menezes, Issey,

and a few others got the CSA attention. He was in the U20 pool

before and Mitchell has "seen" him play, but since the U20 performance

wasn't up to expectations, I wouldn't just discard this guy so easily.

An invite to MNT camp is not too much to ask, and we'll see how he

stacks up. As for those players who were previously cut in their

early U17/U20 programs include players like JDG and of course,

the unmentionable one that joined ManU. So you just never know.

And if he is indeed playing with a low level club in Argentina, what

should we say about a player with Rushden & Diamonds? What division

level would that be?

[ag futbol]

I'm not going to take any guesses as to his quality, but after seeing Stamatopoulos on the weekend and comparing him to Sutton I think we need to widen our base in terms of the players we take a look at. As others have said, it wouldn't hurt to invite him to camp.

[VPjr]

To anyone who thinks that the 1st division in Argentina is nothing more than Boca and River, I suggest you take the time to occasionally watch a match on FSWC. They show at least 1 game per week.

There are several good squads in the top division in Argentina and many clubs fill out their rosters with top players from neighboring S. American countries. The quality of play is quite high, the skill on display is dazzling and there are alot of young, hungry future stars on display. Teams like San Lorenzo (which won the Clausura last season), Estudiantes, Independiente, Aresenal and Newell's Old Boys are highly skilled and highly entertaining. Some of the smaller clubs have limited resources to buy players from other countries so they develop their own domestic talent and have become breeding grounds for some of the best young talent that is flooding Europe these days (Especially Spain...I am sure Jeffrey would run out of fingers and toes trying to keep a count of the number of outstanding Argentines playing in la Liga).

If you could magically pick up the Argentinian 1st division and drop it into Europe, the league would instantly be ranked higher than the majority of European leagues, including the Eredivisie or Portugese 1st division, at least in my opinion. I would even venture to say that the quality and style of play would make it more enjoyable to watch than the Bundesliga (for the most part), although the 3-4 top Bundesliga1 teams would not doubt be better than the top 3-4 Argentine teams. MLS could only wish to be as entertaining or as high quality as Argentina's top league.

I personally would love to see more Canadian kids try to have a go with a pro team in South America. It would be good for them to come up through a development system that encourages creativity and attack. The pressure to win is high in South America. Players who fail are shipped out quick. Coaches are shipped out even quicker if they fail. Argentina's league might be a seller's league but only because the country's economy is a disaster and there is no way team's could ever pay players what they can make in Europe (or even in Mexico, where some good Argentine's go to make a bigger paycheque).

I hope that Gomez thrives and moves up to a bigger squad and then ultimately to a team in Mexico or into Europe. I hope he can be a part of the MNT at some point, if he deserves it. I just hope he is not left out of the program because he plays in South America rather than in Europe or MLS.

[Grizzly]

quote:Originally posted by VPjr

To anyone who thinks that the 1st division in Argentina is nothing more than Boca and River, I suggest you take the time to occasionally watch a match on FSWC. They show at least 1 game per week.

There are several good squads in the top division in Argentina and many clubs fill out their rosters with top players from neighboring S. American countries. The quality of play is quite high, the skill on display is dazzling and there are alot of young, hungry future stars on display. Teams like San Lorenzo (which won the Clausura last season), Estudiantes, Independiente, Aresenal and Newell's Old Boys are highly skilled and highly entertaining. Some of the smaller clubs have limited resources to buy players from other countries so they develop their own domestic talent and have become breeding grounds for some of the best young talent that is flooding Europe these days (Especially Spain...I am sure Jeffrey would run out of fingers and toes trying to keep a count of the number of outstanding Argentines playing in la Liga).

If you could magically pick up the Argentinian 1st division and drop it into Europe, the league would instantly be ranked higher than the majority of European leagues, including the Eredivisie or Portugese 1st division, at least in my opinion. I would even venture to say that the quality and style of play would make it more enjoyable to watch than the Bundesliga (for the most part), although the 3-4 top Bundesliga1 teams would not doubt be better than the top 3-4 Argentine teams. MLS could only wish to be as entertaining or as high quality as Argentina's top league.

I personally would love to see more Canadian kids try to have a go with a pro team in South America. It would be good for them to come up through a development system that encourages creativity and attack. The pressure to win is high in South America. Players who fail are shipped out quick. Coaches are shipped out even quicker if they fail. Argentina's league might be a seller's league but only because the country's economy is a disaster and there is no way team's could ever pay players what they can make in Europe (or even in Mexico, where some good Argentine's go to make a bigger paycheque).

I hope that Gomez thrives and moves up to a bigger squad and then ultimately to a team in Mexico or into Europe. I hope he can be a part of the MNT at some point, if he deserves it. I just hope he is not left out of the program because he plays in South America rather than in Europe or MLS.

I do watch Argentine soccer on occasion and indeed enjoy it, the style is very attractive. I am not saying the league is crap but the leagues you mention are exactly the ones it is comparable to, Eredivisie and Portugese 1st division and would include the Belgian league as well. This is the 2nd tier of European football, decent leagues with a couple of top teams, a couple of reasonably good teams and a fairly rapid lowering of quality as one goes down the table. These leagues are mostly feeder leagues to the top tier European leagues. The Argentinian league is overrated because of the strength of their national team. Yet hardly any of their A team plays in the Argentinan league. Plus as you mention there are several hundred Argentinian players playing in various leagues throughout Europe. If all of these players start staying in their domestic league the Argentinian top tier would be a top league but the fact is that they are not. What I am getting at is that if Gomez was playing for a third division Portugese, Dutch or Belgian team I doubt anyone would be clamouring for him to be called up to the senior Men's team but because of Argentina's reputation in soccer people are doing this without considering what the playing level of the team he is playing for is.

As far as playing for the River Plate youth side, it is indeed a very good development academy with a long history of success. However, while you have to have some talent to get into such a team, like most successful youth programs probably 95% of its graduates do not go on to achieve anything substantial in professional soccer. I am sure Argentina is a good place for him to develop and I hope he makes the best of his opportunity. However, he is 20 and has still not accomplished anything in the world of professional football. I get a bit tired of the claims that this guy or that who was once a member of such and such academy and is now playing on some obscure team should be called to our national team to play with guys playing in the EPL, La Liga and Champion's League. Before we get articles about how great this guy is, implying he would have made a difference to our fortunes had he been selected for the U-20 and promoting him as a senior national team player he should at least accomplish something much more in the world of professional soccer than playing on a third division team in Argentina. We don't even know if he is even a starter for this team.

As to Cheetah's question as to whether it can be any worse than a USL team, I have two answers. First is that I strongly think that the days of us needing to call USL players should be well behind us unless such a player is a young talent or we have severe injury problems. Second there are quite a few Youtube videos of Tristan Suarez and judging from them I would say it is worse than the USL, more offensive but very sloppy defending and not a very high calibre of play. Don't forget the Impact had two players with Argentine 1st tier experience this year, one of whom is one of the Impact's best players the other whom was a complete failure and has been cut from the team. Here is a link to a Youtube video of Tristan. Do any of these players look like national team quality?

[Guest Jeffery S.]

I don't think you can judge a level by a Youtube video, and especially not the defending. How many videos of good game-long defending have you seen on Youtube? The answer should be interesting.

Here's another video of a loss, some great goals, and of course since goals get on highlight reels, you can go conclude again that the defending was bad. From this one I get the feeling we are dealing with a higher level than USL Div 1, maybe because the goals were classy and the guy plays at this level, but geez, without a good video of the defending, off the ball and midfield play I can't tell. Can you?

[jpg75]

Looks to me like some pretty good technical, attacking players taking advantage of some really shabby defending. IMO there are worse places for a 20 yr old attacking midfielder to develop his game then the 3rd division of Argentina. That said, i don't think Gomez should be getting a callup right now. Let him prove himself at that level first, and if/when he does then he'll get opportunities at a higher level and then will be Canadian MNT material.

[Massive Attack]

We could always call him up for Olympic qualifying, which is coming up.

[VPjr]

Griz, I would disagree that the Arg. 1st div is overrated. Virtually every memeber of the Argentine MNT and U20 team have come through that league. the main reason the players leave is because of money (there isn't any in Argentina). If the players were not pressured for financial reasons to leave Argentina, you could be talking about one of the top 2 or 3 leagues in the world, hands down. Of course, that is a pipe dream so we might as well deal with reality. I would argue that the depth in this 1st division this year is quite good. Boca is no lock to win anything this year, especially since Riquelme is not going to come back to them. There are 6-7 teams that have a legit chance to win. There are not to many leagues in Europe that can boast that level of parity. It should be a very interesting season in Argentina this year.

Back onto the topic at hand, I am more excited by the prospect of Gomez playing 3rd division Argentinian soccer than I am having Simeon Jackson playing for R&D in England's Nationwide Conference. I can't for the life of me understand why he would cross the pond to play at such a low level of pro soccer. While I would prefer to see Gomez playing on a bigger stage in Argentina, I am sure that the level of competition is still quite good and i am confident that it is far better than what Jackson is playing against in England.

I agree with JPG75....until Gomez is playing in Argentina's top division or for a top team in another South American country, he really has no business being looked at for a MNT callup. The Olympic team is another issue altogether. If they have have a U23 camp this winter to prepare for that qualifying tournament, it would make sense to call him into the camp to have a look-see. if he is as talented and creative a midfielder as the article describes, then he might be a good choice for a Canadian U23 team because we saw quite clearly at the U20's that, at that level, we have a huge void in the midfield.

[jpg75]

For those with the time and access to Fox Sports World Canada there will be an airing of Argentine Football on at 5pm ET today (half hour from now). The guide shows River-Newell's which was postponed this Sunday, not sure if this will be the game played or a repeat of Independiente-Tigre that aired in it's place. Either way, it's worth a look as these games are usually of excellent quality!