Turf war?

[Soju]

If players really feel the turf is that terrible to play on then this is their fight not ours.

[john tv]

Oops who pays etc. Are they being muzzled and of course they are. I guess David and Donavan as well as Dwayne are not playing here. I wonder if a high profile Euro was offered to play here but the turf was the deciding factor,since I am sure he will be made aware of it. What will he do?

[Soju]

No one is going to boycott TFC because of the turf John. If you have an action plan, let's hear it.

[john tv]

I am not at all suggesting to boycott TFC. That of all things would be crazy. I guess we could persuade TFC to rethink that issue and maybe find some solution to this grassy problem. I am just in the players corner which obviously touches very much on the supporters side as well.i guess we will see how this thing plays out. It may very well disappeared from the radar screen and only players could get keep this alive, since they were the ones who started it in the first place. I know it is wrong that stuff but what can you do.Live with it and use it as an excuse if needed.

[trueviking]

i love the argument....plastic is here to stay, so there is no point in arguing about it....war is here to stay too...should we just accept it?

i also love that eventhough 99.999% of all european football is played on grass, one game in a russia is held up as proof that it will imminently sweep the world....even in these other small leagues that have plastic, it is only one or two fields....all those tiny countries have a number of proper fields...we only have one damn stadium in our entire country!...cant one of the richest nations on earth afford even one proper stadium?

i hope one day TFC is embarassed into changing it...the more the players speak out the better...i am embarassed as a canadian for this second rate solution....maybe after montreal and vancouver build proper fields and move to MLS toronto will be humiliated enough to upgrade from budget motel digs.

[Soju]

I agree it's better to voice complaint about something than sit on it. I'm just wondering if anyone who feels strongly about this is going to start up a petition or some other action. Maybe bring some local media attention to it. This will take TFC players speaking out about it in order to gain credibility IMO. Right now it looks like a lot of excuses from opposing teams who've played poorly at BMO (or like Beckham, haven't played at all).

[Niagara Hammer]

It is not TFC that you have to convience. It is the city of Toronto, The land lords.

The TFC is the tennant and property manger.

As far as the opponents who don't want to play, too bad so sad, suck it up. THIS IS OUR HOUSE. That mind game we have won. if they feel they can't play well in our house that is perfect with me. Beat them before they arrive.

Go away or we shall taunt you a second time.

[RS]

quote:Originally posted by john tv

I remember playing on that plastic stuff and always wondered what other soccer players would think of it. I also remembered being so extremely irritated watching the Blizzard play on that stuff. Every time that ball went to the wings good bye ball. Wingers had one heck os a time etc. If they believe they have solved that problems, these little twinkle toes knew better.

You're aware that it's been almost 30 years since the Blizzard played on ASTROTURF, and that the FIELDTURF TFC play on is vastly different, right?

[Loud Mouth Soup]

Thanks Rudi. Someone had to point out the obvious.

[john tv]

Of course I am aware of this,but there still is this bounce that seems higher than normal,just remember there is still cement underneath.

As i said the jury is still out and it appears that in general soccer players obviously prefer grass,while from an economic viewpoint the money side still dominates.

I am just very concerned about that recovery time and all the potential side effects as well.I guess that Mo has to take that into consideration and taylor this to his aims and or is in the process of finding out what the proper rythm is,both for training and playing as well as times are concerned.

[Richard]

"war is here to stay too...should we just accept it?"

So you are equating soccer with war?

[Loud Mouth Soup]

John-the concrete is not so close as to be drastically noticeable. Here in their first video you can see the layers of sand and rubber in the blades. It has give. This isn't a thin sheet like the fake grass we all slapped on our back steps at home in the 80s.

http://www.fieldturf.com/product/techInfo.cfm

As an aside, for all the doomers complaining about the possibility of CFL games at BMO, or anywhere else sharing with CFL on FieldTurf, this is direct from the FieldTurf site:

Proprietary Permanent and Temporary Marking Systems

Convert a FIFA soccer field into a fully lined American football field in just six to twelve hours. Play soccer Saturday night and football Sunday. No visible seams, no faint backgrounds and no ghosting. This process does not damage the fabric backing like competitive techniques.

And here's a list of football clubs with FieldTurf either on their pitch or on the training ground, so it's not like a lot of professionals aren't familiar with it, and the clubs are poo-pooing it.

http://www.fieldturf.com/soccer/highProfile.cfm

[Loud Mouth Soup]

John-the concrete is not so close as to be drastically noticeable. Here in their first video you can see the layers of sand and rubber in the blades. It has give. This isn't a thin sheet like the fake grass we all slapped on our back steps at home in the 80s.

http://www.fieldturf.com/product/techInfo.cfm

As an aside, for all the doomers complaining about the possibility of CFL games at BMO, or anywhere else sharing with CFL on FieldTurf, this is direct from the FieldTurf site:

Proprietary Permanent and Temporary Marking Systems

Convert a FIFA soccer field into a fully lined American football field in just six to twelve hours. Play soccer Saturday night and football Sunday. No visible seams, no faint backgrounds and no ghosting. This process does not damage the fabric backing like competitive techniques.

And here's a list of football clubs with FieldTurf either on their pitch or on the training ground, so it's not like a lot of professionals aren't familiar with it, and the clubs are poo-pooing it.

http://www.fieldturf.com/soccer/highProfile.cfm

[Richard]

quote:Originally posted by john tv

Hey Richard you don't know my twinkle toes. They know what real life is all about and certainly having played soccer for 50 years.I remember playing on that plastic stuff and always wondered what other soccer players would think of it. I also remembered being so extremely irritated watching the Blizzard play on that stuff. Every time that ball went to the wings good bye ball. Wingers had one heck os a time etc. If they believe they have solved that problems, these little twinkle toes knew better.

I guess we will have to be satisfied with the product these money guys think can afford,while the players know they can play a more entertaining game. That of course is hard to judge from the stands and of course the hype will hide it anyway.

But....... the after effects, the injury ratio's,recovery time and results will be influenced and if you can live with that,so be it.I wonder what the technical committee of the Fifa will show in their final report about the tournament as far as the surface,injuries and recovery time is concerned.I also wonder how our Canadian players felt about that stuff and foremost how is that heat factor during the game.

I guess money talks and grass walks.

That is what King Richard is preaching. I guess I am from the very old school and still have problems as do Dwayne, Donavan and David is concerned while Lalass said the recovery time takes longer and he was the least critical, yet one guy who I believe knows a lot more about the game than anyone else on this board.Agreed King Richard, he knows more.

So when was the last time you even walked onto a FIFA certified Two Star FieldTurf pitch let alone played a truly competitive game on one John?

[Richard]

quote:Originally posted by john tv

Hey Richard you don't know my twinkle toes. They know what real life is all about and certainly having played soccer for 50 years.I remember playing on that plastic stuff and always wondered what other soccer players would think of it. I also remembered being so extremely irritated watching the Blizzard play on that stuff. Every time that ball went to the wings good bye ball. Wingers had one heck os a time etc. If they believe they have solved that problems, these little twinkle toes knew better.

I guess we will have to be satisfied with the product these money guys think can afford,while the players know they can play a more entertaining game. That of course is hard to judge from the stands and of course the hype will hide it anyway.

But....... the after effects, the injury ratio's,recovery time and results will be influenced and if you can live with that,so be it.I wonder what the technical committee of the Fifa will show in their final report about the tournament as far as the surface,injuries and recovery time is concerned.I also wonder how our Canadian players felt about that stuff and foremost how is that heat factor during the game.

I guess money talks and grass walks.

That is what King Richard is preaching. I guess I am from the very old school and still have problems as do Dwayne, Donavan and David is concerned while Lalass said the recovery time takes longer and he was the least critical, yet one guy who I believe knows a lot more about the game than anyone else on this board.Agreed King Richard, he knows more.

So when was the last time you even walked onto a FIFA certified Two Star FieldTurf pitch let alone played a truly competitive game on one John?

[RS]

quote:Originally posted by Loud Mouth Soup

Thanks Rudi. Someone had to point out the obvious.

[john tv]

quote:Originally posted by Richard

So when was the last time you even walked onto a FIFA certified Two Star FieldTurf pitch let alone played a truly competitive game on one John?

I walked on the BMO field and that's when i realized that it did not feel grassy.Can't explain just felt it that way. In fact that's when i spoke to Dwayne as well as his father Tony about that grass and learned what Dwayne thought.

It seems to be making the headlines as well as the talk shows and as i said we will see.

I played some time ago in a celebrity game and it was on grass,although not a lot of it.Played many games at the Lamport stadium and i really did not enjoy it as much as playing on grass.

It was very hard and that ball was a lot more difficult to control as well as using the wingers was not easy at all.

Also kicked the ball around at the Soccer Centre in Vaughn,which is quite hard to play on as well.

[Richard]

Where did I read these words before?

Artificial turf might not be the first choice of the Los Angeles Galaxy's celebrity midfielder David Beckham, but when he comes to Toronto for Major League Soccer matches, he had better get used to it.

http://www.globesports.com/servlet/story/RTGAM.20070809.wsptturf9/GSStory/GlobeSportsSoccer/home

[Loud Mouth Soup]

quote:Originally posted by Richard

Where did I read these words before?

Artificial turf might not be the first choice of the Los Angeles Galaxy's celebrity midfielder David Beckham, but when he comes to Toronto for Major League Soccer matches, he had better get used to it.

http://www.globesports.com/servlet/story/RTGAM.20070809.wsptturf9/GSStory/GlobeSportsSoccer/home

"Beckham has an ankle injury — picked up on real grass - ...

Oops.

[jeffymac1971]

Do you get the feeling this is becoming a waste of bandwith and space here. The truth is that Fieldturf or the next generation of Artificial Surfaces are here to stay. FIFA has approved these surfaces to be played on. End of Story.

This is not astroturf!!!

Time to move on? No???

[Cheeta]

I know I bring this up every time but what the Hell, what's one more time?

Beckham has spent a few years in the EPL and he knows as much as anybody the quality of the winter turf in England or has he forgotten already? Looks not half bad on the television until you get the close ups, then you get to see how it comes apart.

Millions of pounds get spent by the EPL clubs to lay and relay the pitches over the winter and they still turn to crap. Do they turn to crap mid week while the fields getting rested? No. They turn to crap Saturday afternoon under match "abuse". See how much his ankle likes it when the green tears away under his left foot as he tries a 40+ yard pass.

FieldTurf is a God send to places like Canada if only that it extends the playing season for two months. Two months over which I'll guarentee you that FieldTurf is superior to almost every pitch in northern Europe, early spring and early winter.

(Will admit this though, for all of AT's advances you sure can zig-zag on that plastic in ways you can't on turf. Can see how that would be a bit harder on the body).

[Danny Boy]

What's the lifespan of a new field turf pitch? 5, 10, 15 years? 100, 500, 1000 games?

[DarnCherry]

quote:Originally posted by Danny Boy

What's the lifespan of a new field turf pitch? 5, 10, 15 years? 100, 500, 1000 games?

If you look at Atlanta's it's about two years!

[trueviking]

quote:Originally posted by Richard

"war is here to stay too...should we just accept it?"

So you are equating soccer with war?

yes richard, thats exactly what i am doing....

classic tactic of someone arguing without merit...attempt to divert the discussion with ridiculous comments.

[trueviking]

quote:Originally posted by jeffymac1971

Do you get the feeling this is becoming a waste of bandwith and space here. The truth is that Fieldturf or the next generation of Artificial Surfaces are here to stay. FIFA has approved these surfaces to be played on. End of Story.

just because FIFA has approved it doesnt mean it is acceptable in every situation...they promote these surfaces so impverished countries in africa and elsewhere can have reasonable fields to play on....there is no excuse for a rich country to use it on their one and only soccer specific stadium.