john tv Posted August 18, 2007 Author Share Posted August 18, 2007 quote:Originally posted by Canadian Swede While it is nice to play on grass, AT will become more important with global fresh water supplies decreasing. I imagine that the AT will become more and more grass like as technology concerning AT changes. It aggravates me to see all of these golf courses in the middle of the desert using all this fresh water when many around the world have limited access to any. I guess the environmentalist in me just came out. cheers ------- I guess the bottom line guys of MLSE made that decision in order to not deplete our lakes from water. Very sensitive move and very appropriate if true. The water protectors yah right. Cheers how,and of all people a swede water swede. You know something you are indeed correct and in the long run we all should have phony lawns. Hey come to think of it invest your money in these guys, can't go wrong and it will be a one way walk to the bank, for deposits only. Hey Salming you are indeed swimming up that precious river and I sort of admire your farsighted thinking right up my alley, but would we really save our environment next to lake Ontario. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CanadianSwede Posted August 18, 2007 Share Posted August 18, 2007 quote:Originally posted by john tv Thanks for your facetious response. But in actual fact it is a problem. Global fresh water levels are decreasing and its ludicrous to think that people are using a large amount of this water keep grass green. Of course we never think of this as a problem because it has never been a problem. Travel the world and you will see it is. I am not saying that we turn all of our lawns into artificial turf. In fact many cities have limits on how much water we can use for our lawns. But maintaining a natural grass pitch takes a lot of time, money and consequently water. One day artificial turf will have a grass like feel. I have played soccer on artificial turf and my ankles feel great. Cheers Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ryan Keay Posted August 18, 2007 Share Posted August 18, 2007 quote:Originally posted by putkaputka John, problem is -- players in the MSL, and TFC in particular hardly have any clout -- i mean, what, Andy Welsh is going to complain? Or Lombardo? They know they are garbage and the MSL is the end of the road for them and it does not make sense to bite the hand that feeds them. Understandable. At this point in time in the league's history, we ought not to look at the players to bring this issue individually. It is asking too much. The union has to take a look at it on a global scale. It is a union issue. However, the truth of the matter is that even if it were the best grass field in the world in the MSL, the fans will not be treated to a better product, that much is obvious given the talent pool. There are games over football field markers for goodness sakes... As you say, if we build it though, will top talent come? A chicken and egg problem, but as long as we are talking about "matching" conditions, the salary will be the major factor in attracting talent. Now, if we talk of becoming the leaders in developing pitches, it might have more effect on a possible decision. Not likely, but may be a start... You know, if you actually took the time to learn the name of the league, people might take your comments a bit more seriously. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
john tv Posted August 19, 2007 Author Share Posted August 19, 2007 How I lost a Blizzard game. When I was the pr guy for the almighty Blizzard I decided to contact my old friend Ann Rohmer who was an excersize guru on CITY TV at that time. I asked her to come over at Varsity and work with the Blizzard. Well she did and work she did as well.Randy Ragan Ace Noetsolango,David Byrne ,Paul James,Peter Sloly and the rest went through a session allright.They would not be embarressed by a woman! This was on a Friday night. On Sunday there was a game against the bottom team and yes the almighty Blizzaards were running away with the league at that time. Well we lost and I have always blamed myself for this because our boys were still very stiff from that Friday.When I was watching that game I became very aware as to what the problem was. So here we are with our new da da da grass and I really believe that this thing is killing our players.Mo has to study this and come to his senses ,this stuff wears you down and looses games as well.The training has to be reorganized and on a different scale.Move away from this stuff,train on the real stuff and only play laegue on the da da stuff.That's my former Blizzard's two cents worth. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
putkaputka Posted August 19, 2007 Share Posted August 19, 2007 quote:Originally posted by Gian-Luca What a bunch of crap re: Lombardo. Apart from how ridiculous it is to suggest that a 20 year old player playing in his first year as a pro has already reached "the end of the road" even if that does turn out to be the case, MLS is a decent enough quality league that there is no shame whatsoever at a domestic player "only" reaching this level. He wasn't expected to see much playing time this season & yet too often has been played as a lone striker with almost nil midfield support (particularly when TFC play on the road). I think we can afford to cut the kid some slack. Sheesh! Lombardo knows he's not garbage - which is something I can't say about your post, unfortunately. I am sorry you feel so touchy about your cousin, and you can see some of my other posts in which I suggest how I see his future if he can improve in certain areas so I am cutting him slack, didnt mean to single him out that way, but I was talking at the moment. But if you must, I don't care if he is overachieving at the moment or underachieving or that TFC sucks at the moment. I watched him at the U20 when he played with 20 years old -- was Dale his excuse then? Couldn't score, couldn't get past his marker, couldn't hold the ball well enough. End of story. On a global scale he is not there by any stretch of the imagination. 20 years is not that young soccer wise – in fact, it is past the age, where a club would make an investment in anyone based on “potential.” Hey, not saying there are not miracles, maybe he can star in Goal the movie 5 -- Lombardo the Dream returns, wher he returns to Atalanta team B at 25, they win the Champions League, he becomes the new Lombardogol and reconnects with his long lost twin brother Giuseppe, but are you willing to put down money on Lombardo's future? Let's get a bet going like the ones about the Lars conspiracy... Lets me see how you see Lombardo or Welsh 5 years down the road? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
john tv Posted August 19, 2007 Author Share Posted August 19, 2007 quote:Originally posted by Gian-Luca What a bunch of crap re: Lombardo. Apart from how ridiculous it is to suggest that a 20 year old player playing in his first year as a pro has already reached "the end of the road" even if that does turn out to be the case, MLS is a decent enough quality league that there is no shame whatsoever at a domestic player "only" reaching this level. He wasn't expected to see much playing time this season & yet too often has been played as a lone striker with almost nil midfield support (particularly when TFC play on the road). I think we can afford to cut the kid some slack. Sheesh! Lombardo knows he's not garbage - which is something I can't say about your post, unfortunately. GL I was very impressed with the big L. I even made reference to that on this post. He really got my eye when he played against these argies in that warm up game. But than it seems he is playing a different game.I wonder how he feels about that brass.Yes brass. i guess that chapter has not been closed yet and this stuff may very well have a serious influence on some of their careers. Anyway i have not lost faith in him just wonder about all these surrounding circumstances. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Richard Posted August 20, 2007 Share Posted August 20, 2007 How does an argument about Andrea Lombardo's abilities and prospects have anything to do with artificial turf, the topic of the thread? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
squid2 Posted August 20, 2007 Share Posted August 20, 2007 in an effort to get back on topic, the following link is to a brief discussion on Field Turf vs Real Grass - posts 4 & 6 bring in external sources. http://www.ontariosoccerweb.com/ost/forum.php post number four is a link to FIFA the FIFA QUALITY CONCEPT - Handbook of Requirements for Football Turf http://www.fifa.com/mm/document/afdeveloping/pitchequip/fqc%5frequirem ents%5fmanual%5fmarch%5f2006%5f326.pdf post number six is a mixture of contributions, including a couple of other external links and then this one: http://www.synturf.org/seriousquestionsask.html with many different articles – both sides of the discussion on yeah or nah RE: fieldturf. Personally I'll take a grass pitch over turf any day, however given the climate, costs, etc., I'm grateful that fieldturf is as good as it is and I look forward to the next generation of field turf. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Richard Posted August 20, 2007 Share Posted August 20, 2007 I think most would agree that a really good quality natural grass pitch is preferable to AT, but not at any cost. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gian-Luca Posted August 20, 2007 Share Posted August 20, 2007 quote:Originally posted by putkaputka I am sorry you feel so touchy about your cousin Lombardo isn't my cousin or in any way related to me, the suggestion that I am defending him from your idiotic comments so therefore I must be related to him & not because the comments are unfair, inaccurate & off the mark (as is the rest of your post) is simply another stupid comment. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
john tv Posted August 20, 2007 Author Share Posted August 20, 2007 Hey he ain't a bad looking guy.Sorry GL I believed him. Does not matter, i really liked him and it does seem that he disappeared from the radar.Just wondering what happened.That is why I am relating that to that AF.Back to that stuff.I guess we all agree that grass is better,so why not have the very best in Toronto.We have the best ever fan base in Canadian soccer history.This thing is a gold mine as well and that in it's first year.Maybe we should consider doing away with all these other events that are planned. They should be making enough money now and in the future. I guess one day it will be grass. I just don't know how much of an influence that stuff has on our players after a game as well as after the practices. Sofar it looks really bad and maybe that AF? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest speedmonk42 Posted August 21, 2007 Share Posted August 21, 2007 I think we only need to look to Stalteri to realize how foolish it is write off anyone at this age. Our players mature later than others. It is one of the by-products of our lack of a pro-culture. We used to want to kill Stalteri at times if I recall when he was young, now we are more than just a little happy to see him on the pitch. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
john tv Posted July 20, 2008 Author Share Posted July 20, 2008 It seems that this turf is a very serious problem that is not disappearing. I was told that the TFC players are not allowed to discuss it and other top players will not come here just for that reason.I still think that we should keep on discussing it and get to the bottom of this problem. I realize that this stadium was build for multiple purposes and this includes a year around operation,but should we accept this or question this.Is it about the fan/player and great results or the buck? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CoachRich Posted July 20, 2008 Share Posted July 20, 2008 ^It's about the buck as the non-soccer community is the one that will have to pay for the facilities. Only way to overcome this is if politicians are soccer supporters at all levels and/or the FC owner has deep pockets to pay the whole shot. Even than look what happens in Vancouver where sheets of ice & pools get all the $ when they only represent 20% of the community. I prefer grass pitches but sadly community fields don't get the $ to be top level or even safe. Add the weather to that & Field Turf is the best choice for the community. Like BMO which is City contolled Field Turf is the choice unitl $ for a City complex show up. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tintin Posted July 20, 2008 Share Posted July 20, 2008 Two points: 1. Most professional footballers hate Field Turf. Our national team players have said they don't like it. What's his face who went to San Jose instead of Toronto said it was because of the turf. If amateurs like playing on it, so what. People generally don't pay money to watch amateurs...they certainly wouldn't pay anything to watch me play! 2. People who come to a thread like this and complain about people having this debate aren't forced to read it. If you don't want to read a debate about real grass v Field Turf or any other crappy surface, why read it? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
john tv Posted July 20, 2008 Author Share Posted July 20, 2008 I still feel that the Toronto soccer fan is not being treated fairly after all their amazing enthusiasm and commitments.They have proven their part and it is now up to the MLSE to discuss and formulate a financially responsible plan to provide the best including a grass field,service the best fans and attract the best soccer players that are available. I don't want to start a revolution but it bothers me that typical money driven way that is not always the best after all. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Richard Posted July 20, 2008 Share Posted July 20, 2008 quote:Originally posted by Tintin Two points: 1. Most professional footballers hate Field Turf. Our national team players have said they don't like it. What's his face who went to San Jose instead of Toronto said it was because of the turf. If amateurs like playing on it, so what. People generally don't pay money to watch amateurs...they certainly wouldn't pay anything to watch me play! 2. People who come to a thread like this and complain about people having this debate aren't forced to read it. If you don't want to read a debate about real grass v Field Turf or any other crappy surface, why read it? Few people will argue your point #1 whatever fanciful, unscientific reasons the players may have for their objections. But as long as BMO Field is owned by the City of Toronto and not MLSE the pitch will stay FieldTurf. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grizzly Posted July 20, 2008 Share Posted July 20, 2008 quote:Originally posted by speedmonk42 I think we only need to look to Stalteri to realize how foolish it is write off anyone at this age. Our players mature later than others. It is one of the by-products of our lack of a pro-culture. We used to want to kill Stalteri at times if I recall when he was young, now we are more than just a little happy to see him on the pitch. There is a huge difference between Stalteri and Lombardo at this age. Stalteri was a talented player who showed lots of promise but was mistake prone. This was the reason that he caught the eye of Werder Bremen and was developing at a top team. Lombardo isn't disappointing because he is young and making mistakes, he just doesn't show much ability or promise. I really don't see him turning things around as a striker but maybe there is a chance if he switched positions. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
john tv Posted July 20, 2008 Author Share Posted July 20, 2008 hey guys,it's about turf and grass.I suggest you start all over again under the proper thread,sorry. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tintin Posted July 21, 2008 Share Posted July 21, 2008 I know that the city owns the bloody thing, but as someone else pointed out earlier, if TFC were to build a training facility somewhere, with maybe a real pitch and one for people who like fake stuff, maybe they could have some sort of arrangement with the city and get the real thing put into the stadium. As for the players having "fanciful, unscientific reasons" for liking REAL grass...THEY are the ones who play on it, so it isn't fanciful and it doesn't have to be scientific. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Richard Posted July 21, 2008 Share Posted July 21, 2008 It is fanciful and unscientific if the players opinions are subjective, which they are, and there are no scientific statistics to support their opinions, which there are not. Yes, TFC could do as you suggest if the City of Toronto was amenable and they could find suitable land but as I said earlier, while MLSE continues to sell out every TFC game where is the motivation for them to invest yet more capital, and it would be a good chunk of change to do as you suggest? It is all in the hands of the ticket buying public and 16,000 seasons tickets suggest the vast majority of them could care less whether BMO Field has FieldTurf or natural grass. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
john tv Posted July 21, 2008 Author Share Posted July 21, 2008 JUST A QUESTION THAT MAY HAVE BEEN ANSWERED,BUT HERE WE GO ANYWAY, wOULD IT BE FEASABLE FOR THE MLSE GUYS TO PUT IN THE REAL GRASS DURING THE REGULAR SEASON AND REPLACE IT IN THE OFF SEASON,WHICH IS AROUND SEVEN MONTHS. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Richard Posted July 21, 2008 Share Posted July 21, 2008 ^ Feasible yes, almost anything is feasible given enough money. Likely, probably not. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Calgary Boomer Posted July 22, 2008 Share Posted July 22, 2008 I'm surprised it's taken 5 pages to come to the conclusion that Field-turf is not helping TFC. Everyone was so hell-bent on getting that stadium built, they rushed it through, and now have a facility which is already substandard by North American terms. It's the fans that make that a good facility. Without them, it would be a glorified high school, cookie cutter, pile of junk stadium. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CoachRich Posted July 22, 2008 Share Posted July 22, 2008 ^BMO was built by taxpayers $ & for the communities use. TFC is only 1 of the users. If TFC is not happy their owners will need to come up w/ the $ for the grass & offer to place the Field Turf elsewhere as the grass will not handle the current use & be good enough for TFC. Overall this thread is similar the discussing the CSA. It comes down to $, people who understand the sport & have a vision that is shared w/ the fans/supporters of the community. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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