VPjr Posted August 11, 2007 Share Posted August 11, 2007 Johntv, just want to point out to you that the Field Turf is not laid directly over concrete. If we all remember the pics of BMO field during construction, you will remember that there was a nicely manicured base of sand or something like that and then turf was applied over it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Loud Mouth Soup Posted August 11, 2007 Share Posted August 11, 2007 quote:Originally posted by trueviking classic tactic of someone arguing without merit...attempt to divert the discussion with ridiculous comments. Ummm, you're the one who made the comparison to war. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Richard Posted August 11, 2007 Share Posted August 11, 2007 quote:Originally posted by trueviking yes richard, thats exactly what i am doing.... classic tactic of someone arguing without merit...attempt to divert the discussion with ridiculous comments. I was remarking on your ridiculous analogy. AT is here to stay, whether you or I or anybody else likes it or not. It is FIFA approved for international competition and being promoted by FIFA at every opportunity. Public facility owners love it for all of its advantages and practically all of Canada's major facilities are publicly owned. AT has extended the playing season in Canada and made countless more hours of field time avaiulable. The AT technology will only improve. The debate is over other than perhaps how to make AT even better, learn to live with it and get on with your life. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
putkaputka Posted August 11, 2007 Share Posted August 11, 2007 quote:Originally posted by Loud Mouth Soup Ummm, you're the one who made the comparison to war. He did not "equate" war and soccer. He drew attention to the genetic fallacy in the original argument. There is quite a distinction. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Loud Mouth Soup Posted August 11, 2007 Share Posted August 11, 2007 I did not say he equated war to soccer, just that he made the original comparison-one that was flawed from the start. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dbailey62 Posted August 11, 2007 Share Posted August 11, 2007 quote:Originally posted by Rudi You're aware that it's been almost 30 years since the Blizzard played on ASTROTURF, and that the FIELDTURF TFC play on is vastly different, right? 1983 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DarnCherry Posted August 11, 2007 Share Posted August 11, 2007 http://sidelineviews.blogspot.com/2007/08/ha-ha-cough-oh.html Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CanadasBest Posted August 12, 2007 Share Posted August 12, 2007 Beckham quote regarding Gillete Stadium's Field Turf: ""The surface actually looked really good out there," he said. "It's better than the Toronto field the other day. It's different, but you have to deal with it. It's part of the MLS -- I'm sure I'll be fine."" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Soju Posted August 12, 2007 Share Posted August 12, 2007 Aren't they both 2 star surfaces from the same company (Field Turf)? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Richard Posted August 12, 2007 Share Posted August 12, 2007 Somebody from MLS probably had a word with him, to the effect... we're paying you a helluva lot of money, AT is the way of the future, get used to it. He can't take back what he said about BMO Field but he can start being less critical of other AT pitches. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DarnCherry Posted August 12, 2007 Share Posted August 12, 2007 quote:Originally posted by gwallace76 Beckham quote regarding Gillete Stadium's Field Turf: ""The surface actually looked really good out there," he said. "It's better than the Toronto field the other day. It's different, but you have to deal with it. It's part of the MLS -- I'm sure I'll be fine."" In that same interview it also says he may not play there because of his ankle. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
john tv Posted August 12, 2007 Author Share Posted August 12, 2007 quote:Originally posted by Richard Somebody from MLS probably had a word with him, to the effect... we're paying you a helluva lot of money, AT is the way of the future, get used to it. He can't take back what he said about BMO Field but he can start being less critical of other AT pitches. I guess money talks and freedom of speech walks. Maybe this is one of the reasons soccer is a no no sport ,it allows to much freedom as well as a heavy control on drug use,which seems to be tolerated and even promoted by these owners. What a mess. I was watching a talk show with my ex buddy John Saunders and I sat there smiling and watching these guys dancing around Bond, The NFL drug use as well as NBA and NHL. I guess we soccer guys may very well upset that apple card and maybe that is why they appear to muzzle anything that may cost more money. I believe that once we have our choirs in place that whole scene will be changing big time.That enormous freedom,creativity,true fan support and pure skill will win,I promise. Not those crazy time outs,commercial breaks and phony rules ta boot. That's why I call it turf war, we will see if the truth will be muzzled or will the players win. What do you think, Truth or consequences. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Richard Posted August 12, 2007 Share Posted August 12, 2007 Listen John, if Beckham didn't want to play on AT he should not have moved to MLS. But he did, in full knowledge that it would require he play regularly on AT so he had better just shut up and get on with it. Got nothing at all to do with being muzzled. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
john tv Posted August 12, 2007 Author Share Posted August 12, 2007 I am just watching the Red Bull game and not only is it on AT but also those lines. They drive me bonkers as well. I find it very hard to watch,throws of everything and it is just crap. They are announcing the LA game and I guess Richard that will be the moment of truth game, play and shut up. I wonder how the Golden Boy would feel about those crazy lines. It seems that there are more than usaual. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jeffymac1971 Posted August 12, 2007 Share Posted August 12, 2007 quote:Originally posted by john tv I am just watching the Red Bull game and not only is it on AT but also those lines. They drive me bonkers as well. Blame the groundkeepers at Giant Stadium for not paiting up the lines, not the AT. I can accept that fact that AT is now part of the game as FIFA has approved them, but to have they play over football line (either on NT or AT) makes the MLS bush league. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
john tv Posted August 13, 2007 Author Share Posted August 13, 2007 Yap Red Bull sgit.There are so many changes to be made in this league and I strongly believe that TFc are the leaders in this indeed Bush league as far as progress is concerned.Meaning that TFC are way ahead of anybody yet still not really up to what soccer really deserves. Anyway I guess time will change all these guys and they will slowly understand that soccer is not a N. A sport and as such should not be treated that way. I guess we are so lucky with our stadium and amazing and loyal fans, despite that phony grass. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Niagara Hammer Posted August 13, 2007 Share Posted August 13, 2007 quote:Originally posted by john tv . . . I guess we are so lucky with our stadium and amazing and loyal fans, despite that phony grass. John TV you are now officially a reluctant convert Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
john tv Posted August 13, 2007 Author Share Posted August 13, 2007 Hey I have been trying to convert you guys for umpteen years,so there goes the shoe. Yes I feel quite good having been part of this little TFC history. Don't want to brag and won't go into detail, but yes I converted a lot of people allright and it is only starting. Love to see the rest of NA pick up on that TFC success,it is so vital. Just hope that this mortgage crisis down south is not going to screw it up.It don't look right. It is funny being an ex auditor in the US I warned these guys many times that the lending policies were totally imbalanced and that proper credit procedures were not in place as well as the State Operating Procedures were very weak as well. Anyway back to soccer, converted that is a good one. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ruud Posted August 13, 2007 Share Posted August 13, 2007 hey - I saw this quote from Beckham too - and I was wondering. When I was last at Gilette Stadium it was real grass???? Did they remove the grass? It was a beautiful stadium!!!! Can someone from Boston confirm??? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
putkaputka Posted August 17, 2007 Share Posted August 17, 2007 "BMO is no field of dreams for players TheStar.com - Sports - BMO is no field of dreams for players August 16, 2007 Cathal Kelly Staring out over the sun-bleached plain that is my front lawn, FieldTurf doesn't look like a bad option. But I don't have to run around on it for 90 minutes at a time. Or anywhere else for that matter. Toronto FC's players have to play and practise on the stuff most every day. BMO Field's artificial surface has come under some criticism lately from visiting players, not the least of whom is David Beckham. Beckham was forced to temper his comments when it was pointed out that three of his youth academies use similar stuff. "At that level, I think it's a great surface," Beckham said, drawing an invisible line between boys and men. FIFA, UEFA, MLS and other soccer leagues have signed on to FieldTurf and other similar products. FIFA has established guidelines for testing and maintaining artificial surfaces. The highest ranking FIFA hands out is a "Two-Star" rating. BMO Field's state-of-the-art pitch has one of those. But the muttering continues. "It's difficult to comment on an individual player's perception," Bob Hunter, the man in charge of MLSE's venues, said the other day. "Statistically, it has been shown that (injuries) are minimal (on FieldTurf). ... The fact that I've heard very little (from players) means they seem to be satisfied." Approached on the sidelines yesterday, where he's been forced to sit and watch his teammates go through their paces because of a serious knee injury suffered at BMO Field, Ronnie O'Brien is cheerfully cagey when asked about the surface. "I don't think I can talk about it," the Irishman winks. He's made no secret of the fact that he'd prefer a grass field. O'Brien's practised on the artificial stuff before, played on it as a youngster. But he'd never been on it day in and day out until he came to Canada. "My problem with it is that it doesn't give way," O'Brien said. Would his teammates prefer grass, or at least the chance to practise on grass? "Of course they would." O'Brien is a veteran. He knows artificial surfaces are a reality in MLS. He's not complaining, just stating a professional's opinion. Will fellow pros, perhaps the designated player that Toronto FC will seek in the off-season, be put off by the BMO Field surface? "It is what it is. It comes down to preferences. If a guy has a choice, he may prefer to play on a grass pitch," O'Brien said. "People are going to talk about (the FieldTurf) because of all the injuries we've had ..." A few feet away, team stars Danny Dichio (hip flexor, back) and Marvell Wynne (hamstring) are going through a light workout, racing to achieve full fitness before Saturday's game against USA Chivas. O'Brien looks over at them, looks back at me, smiles and shrugs his shoulders. Message received. As a condition of the $45 million stadium funding MLSE received from the federal and provincial governments, the field has to be fit for use year-round. That means an artificial turf that can be roofed over in the winter. Would the team consider laying down grass each spring and then replacing it with FieldTurf each winter (approx. cost: $900,000)? "Conceptually, it's an interesting idea," Hunter said. "But ... it would be very, very difficult." Which is to say, very, very expensive. And so, unlikely to happen. Whatever FIFA or its studies say about artificial turf, the men whose livelihoods are made on it definitely prefer the natural stuff. You can chalk it up to foreign prejudice, but like O'Brien says, "It is what it is." Already at a recruiting disadvantage because of national quotas and a young, struggling team, Toronto's field makes it harder for Mo Johnston to attract the most talented players to BMO Field. The true cost of that is not so easily tallied. But it will be paid by fans, not the team's owners." Let the apologists have another go at it... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
john tv Posted August 17, 2007 Author Share Posted August 17, 2007 Kit Cat ,well that is what I suspected ,the players don't like it the owners smell money and the fans well I guess, we will never really know what real effect that stuff has. But if push comes to shuff, and in playoffs that' when it will come through. Will it stop other high profile players coming here well that is another one. Money first goals second. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
putkaputka Posted August 17, 2007 Share Posted August 17, 2007 John, problem is -- players in the MSL, and TFC in particular hardly have any clout -- i mean, what, Andy Welsh is going to complain? Or Lombardo? They know they are garbage and the MSL is the end of the road for them and it does not make sense to bite the hand that feeds them. Understandable. At this point in time in the league's history, we ought not to look at the players to bring this issue individually. It is asking too much. The union has to take a look at it on a global scale. It is a union issue. However, the truth of the matter is that even if it were the best grass field in the world in the MSL, the fans will not be treated to a better product, that much is obvious given the talent pool. There are games over football field markers for goodness sakes... As you say, if we build it though, will top talent come? A chicken and egg problem, but as long as we are talking about "matching" conditions, the salary will be the major factor in attracting talent. Now, if we talk of becoming the leaders in developing pitches, it might have more effect on a possible decision. Not likely, but may be a start... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
john tv Posted August 17, 2007 Author Share Posted August 17, 2007 Why does it always have to be so different.I don't know if that 900 k figure for the real stuff is inflated, correct or a scare tactic.Ultimately we will learn the truth.Ran into one of the support guys for our MNt yesterday and these players don't like that stuff at all.So here we go,will they come or will there be an excuse.I suspect they will show up but will they be carefull who knows. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CanadianSwede Posted August 17, 2007 Share Posted August 17, 2007 While it is nice to play on grass, AT will become more important with global fresh water supplies decreasing. I imagine that the AT will become more and more grass like as technology concerning AT changes. It aggravates me to see all of these golf courses in the middle of the desert using all this fresh water when many around the world have limited access to any. I guess the environmentalist in me just came out. cheers Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gian-Luca Posted August 17, 2007 Share Posted August 17, 2007 quote:Originally posted by putkaputka i mean, what, Andy Welsh is going to complain? Or Lombardo? They know they are garbage and the MSL is the end of the road for them and it does not make sense to bite the hand that feeds them. What a bunch of crap re: Lombardo. Apart from how ridiculous it is to suggest that a 20 year old player playing in his first year as a pro has already reached "the end of the road" even if that does turn out to be the case, MLS is a decent enough quality league that there is no shame whatsoever at a domestic player "only" reaching this level. He wasn't expected to see much playing time this season & yet too often has been played as a lone striker with almost nil midfield support (particularly when TFC play on the road). I think we can afford to cut the kid some slack. Sheesh! Lombardo knows he's not garbage - which is something I can't say about your post, unfortunately. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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