bettermirror Posted November 10, 2006 Share Posted November 10, 2006 a lot of people are discussing who should play and who shouldn't from the selected roster. yes, 4-3-3 is the way to go. it's the direction of the world game, and it suits our players - especially with Friend and De Rosario in the lineup. As is expected the focus is on our back 4. Hutch? Tam? Hainault? Who should partner McKenna - (should McKenna start? I'm not so certain). What needs to be asked is... What tactics and strengths will Hungary be playing toward? Do they have a big-big front two? 4-3-3? Small nippy forwards? Do they play to wingers and expect crosses? All of these affect who plays central defence, who plays wingback, and who plays in the holding midfield role. I know next to nothing about Hungary. I'd love some feedback. *as far as Lars goes....when he is selected it's worth discussing. until then...meh. let's worry about who we have, not who we don't* (yes there are exceptions to every rule - De Jong, and JDG2 for example) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bettermirror Posted November 10, 2006 Share Posted November 10, 2006 a lot of people are discussing who should play and who shouldn't from the selected roster. yes, 4-3-3 is the way to go. it's the direction of the world game, and it suits our players - especially with Friend and De Rosario in the lineup. As is expected the focus is on our back 4. Hutch? Tam? Hainault? Who should partner McKenna - (should McKenna start? I'm not so certain). What needs to be asked is... What tactics and strengths will Hungary be playing toward? Do they have a big-big front two? 4-3-3? Small nippy forwards? Do they play to wingers and expect crosses? All of these affect who plays central defence, who plays wingback, and who plays in the holding midfield role. I know next to nothing about Hungary. I'd love some feedback. *as far as Lars goes....when he is selected it's worth discussing. until then...meh. let's worry about who we have, not who we don't* (yes there are exceptions to every rule - De Jong, and JDG2 for example) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Joe Keeper Posted November 10, 2006 Share Posted November 10, 2006 Even if Hart may not be the man for our long term job, his roster selections have been great. Having new call-ups beased on merit and an experimental philosophy is what we have been lacking in comparison to most other serious national teams. I would have killed for this roster during WCQ, and this roster is in addition to all those who are injured, and the youth. The best part is Nsaliwa and Hainault. We have been thin at CB since WCQ. Although I have been impressed with Reda. My two cents: 4-3-3 -------Wagenaar---- Nsaliwa-McKenna-Hainailt-Jazic DeRosario--Serioux--Hutchinson Hume----Friend------Radzinski 3-5-2 ----------Wagenaar -----Nsaliwa-Hainault-McKenna --------Serioux--Hutchinson-- Bernier----DeGuzman-------DeRosario ------Hume(or radz)-----Friend Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Joe Keeper Posted November 10, 2006 Share Posted November 10, 2006 Even if Hart may not be the man for our long term job, his roster selections have been great. Having new call-ups beased on merit and an experimental philosophy is what we have been lacking in comparison to most other serious national teams. I would have killed for this roster during WCQ, and this roster is in addition to all those who are injured, and the youth. The best part is Nsaliwa and Hainault. We have been thin at CB since WCQ. Although I have been impressed with Reda. My two cents: 4-3-3 -------Wagenaar---- Nsaliwa-McKenna-Hainailt-Jazic DeRosario--Serioux--Hutchinson Hume----Friend------Radzinski 3-5-2 ----------Wagenaar -----Nsaliwa-Hainault-McKenna --------Serioux--Hutchinson-- Bernier----DeGuzman-------DeRosario ------Hume(or radz)-----Friend Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Canuck Oranje Posted November 10, 2006 Share Posted November 10, 2006 Regarding McKenna, he has to start. After watching him defend superbly against Bremen's Klose, Diego, Frings and company (apparently, Kicker Magazine also agreed), I think he is a very valuable piece of our starting 11. Only he needs the right partner to cover his lack of pace. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mjoni Posted November 10, 2006 Share Posted November 10, 2006 Couple quotes from Issey... - I'm really nervous, because playing for the national team of one of the three nations I can represent is a dream come true. I was very surprised two days ago, when the CSA called me to tell me I was selected for Canada's A-squad. - I am honoured to be selected for Canada's national team. Most of my family members live in Canada, so representing Canada is like representing my family. http://www.vejle-boldklub.dk/news.aspx?NewsID=6375cea4-70a9-11db-ab3f-001022fe44d4 Other comments say: -excellent dribbler -good shot technique -explosive -can play on either wing Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kurosawa1555362267 Posted November 10, 2006 Share Posted November 10, 2006 quote:Originally posted by mjoni Couple quotes from Issey... - I'm really nervous, because playing for the national team of one of the three nations I can represent is a dream come true. I was very surprised two days ago, when the CSA called me to tell me I was selected for Canada's A-squad. - I am honoured to be selected for Canada's national team. Most of my family members live in Canada, so representing Canada is like representing my family. That's music to my ears, I wish all players with a link to Canada would say stuff like that!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Beaver Posted November 10, 2006 Share Posted November 10, 2006 I think that if we have a proper midfield, then McKenna and the back four will do just fine. It is vital to have Hutch in the middle; he is a very responsible and capable centre mid, good defensively and capable of creating things moving forward. Also, he can deliver well to our strikers, and we need good distribution out of the back and mid. I suspect we will officially go 4-3-3, but will in fact operate as a 4-5-1. I suppose the idea here is that as we attack, we are 4-3-3, but we defend as 4-5-1. This, of course, means that the two on the midfield flanks will do a crapload of work and will likely need to be subbed in the second half. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bettermirror Posted November 10, 2006 Share Posted November 10, 2006 canuck oranje: agree regarding mckenna. beaver: ya, that's what chelsea do. work the butts off of the wingers and replace them later in the match - it's essential to a 4-3-3 system. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Daniel Posted November 10, 2006 Share Posted November 10, 2006 McKenna is captain and healthy. He will start. They called Issey 2 days ago??? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jason Posted November 11, 2006 Share Posted November 11, 2006 quote:Originally posted by Canuck Oranje Regarding McKenna, he has to start. After watching him defend superbly against Bremen's Klose, Diego, Frings and company (apparently, Kicker Magazine also agreed), I think he is a very valuable piece of our starting 11. Only he needs the right partner to cover his lack of pace. I totally agree with this...a good coach knows how to put a lineup out there that can accent strengths and cover deficiencies. Big Kev will never be fast, and with the wrong partner will look bad, but with the right guy they can be both be very effective. Jason Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Ed Posted November 11, 2006 Share Posted November 11, 2006 (Amended) Lineup given the selection: GK Wagenaar DEF l to r - Serioux, Nsaliwa, McKenna, Jazic MF l to r - de Guzman, Hutch, de Rosario, Bernier in a diamond F l to r - Rad, Friend Subs: Hainault, Hume, Issey Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hottoddy7 Posted November 11, 2006 Share Posted November 11, 2006 Um thats twelve ED. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ubuntu Posted November 11, 2006 Share Posted November 11, 2006 I don't understand the "buzz" about the 4-3-3 formation. Nobody play 4-3-3 anymore, except a few team in Holland (and Barça sometimes) and we never really play that formation cause what we really play it's the same formation like a lot of people, it's more a 4-2-3-1. Basicily it's 4 at defense, 2 holding mid, 3 offensive mid (2 winger, one behind the striker) and one striker. A lot of people are playing that way because in modern football it's effective and quite flexible. If you play really offensive you've got something like a 4-3-3 and if you want to close the game it's look like a 4-5-1, but you need players that have the polyvalence to do that kind of works. It's better for a national team that doesn't play often to use a kind of formation which the players are familiar with, and a lots of teams are using that formation, so it's a good thing to use it to, indeed. For exemple Radz is using as a winger at Fulham and the lone striker is McBride. So it think it will look like the formation of Daniel. By the way 3-5-2 was a good way to play in the late 80's not now, and the 4-4-3 is not approve by the FIFA, I know it's a shame but maybe in a thousand years it will be Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nolando Posted November 11, 2006 Share Posted November 11, 2006 I'm confused...why does a formation have to be approved by FIFA or used strictly during onle one decade. Whatever works, works, no? As long as you have eleven... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Joe Keeper Posted November 11, 2006 Share Posted November 11, 2006 Personally I dont get these 4 placed formations (ie a 4-2-3-2). This to me is just a 3-5-2. The midfield is obviosly divided into holding or defensive mids, and offensive attackers/playmakers. Why doe they have to further segment it... And yes, I agree, "whatever works best" is the way I understood all coahes orperated. Formations are very sensitive to many things like what specific players you have, opponents tactics, desired reuslt and tactical changes... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rupert Posted November 11, 2006 Share Posted November 11, 2006 This is the Hungarian squad: http://www.mlsz.hu/hirek_avalogatott.php?itemid=737&catid=1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ceres Posted November 11, 2006 Share Posted November 11, 2006 quote:Originally posted by Daniel They called Issey 2 days ago??? Yes, this is correct. If i should make a guess, then thy did not really think of calling Issey despite his very good performance against FCK, but then they probably watched how Heerenveen were totally overmatched and dismantled at home by Danish OB Odense in the UEFA cup, then to notice that Issey scored his 5th goal of the season a few days later against the very same Odense team. . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nolando Posted November 11, 2006 Share Posted November 11, 2006 Maybe Ian's messages helped. They certainly couldn't have hurt. I hope Issey will have a chance to play in DDR's place as a sub in the second half. He likely will be hungrier and will be playing like he has something to prove, and all of this could give DDR a (IMHO) much-needed push to fight to prove he can do something on a regular basis for Canada. And who knows, maybe Issey is a star in the making? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Jeffery S. Posted November 11, 2006 Share Posted November 11, 2006 quote:Originally posted by ubuntu I don't understand the "buzz" about the 4-3-3 formation. Nobody play 4-3-3 anymore, except a few team in Holland (and Barça sometimes) and we never really play that formation cause what we really play it's the same formation like a lot of people, it's more a 4-2-3-1. Basicily it's 4 at defense, 2 holding mid, 3 offensive mid (2 winger, one behind the striker) and one striker. A lot of people are playing that way because in modern football it's effective and quite flexible. If you play really offensive you've got something like a 4-3-3 and if you want to close the game it's look like a 4-5-1, but you need players that have the polyvalence to do that kind of works. It's better for a national team that doesn't play often to use a kind of formation which the players are familiar with, and a lots of teams are using that formation, so it's a good thing to use it to, indeed. For exemple Radz is using as a winger at Fulham and the lone striker is McBride. So it think it will look like the formation of Daniel. By the way 3-5-2 was a good way to play in the late 80's not now, and the 4-4-3 is not approve by the FIFA, I know it's a shame but maybe in a thousand years it will be 4-3-3, Barça plays it ALWAYS. We have been playing it under Yallop and it is the one part of his legacy I think should stay, as it goes well with the kind of players we have. And it is daring and entertaining, and if we can pull it off we are demonstrating that playing as an underdog away we have not just come along to defend, and that is in our favour. I think one of the reasons it works for us is that we do not really have a proven striker up front in the middle, our better attacking players need running room down the wings or space to come up through the middle from behind the play. It is a style that forces the opponent to keep its outside backs at home, not go forwards, but it does mean a greater demand on the midfield, which has to be very active and mobile and physical, and probably is where you are going to have to sub first. So I like it for us, with Radz-Friend or Hume-De Ro (with Issey coming in for the first wing who needs a break), backed up by Bernier, De Guzman and Hutchinson (could replace one with Serioux, though I don't think Hungary is that physical, he'd be the sub in), with McKenna and not sure who to team him with (Hainault looks like he might be ready) Jazic on one side, probably not Braz as he's not playing, maybe improvise there? Sutton in goal. This call up has three things I don't like. Pozniak is not playing at high enough level to justify his presence, he has not done enough to deserve a call up. We are seriously missing someone like Lars in goal, who is a proven step above the others. We are still unsure about our centre backs, when that should be the first thing we have clear. Fine, test Hainault now, he sounds very promising, but let's try to get at least three guys used to playing together at the back so we have some different combinations of pairs ready for the next WC qualifiers. If all else fails, I think Hutchinson could still handle things at the back, but we are weakest right there IMO. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Daniel Posted November 11, 2006 Share Posted November 11, 2006 In regards to FIFA approval of formations, look carefully at the original message . I sound like a broken record on this, but we're clearly not playing 4-3-3: it's a 4-5-1 with Friend being the target man (and before that it was Ali in Vienna). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
David C. Posted November 11, 2006 Share Posted November 11, 2006 quote:Originally posted by Daniel I sound like a broken record on this, but we're clearly not playing 4-3-3: it's a 4-5-1... Daniel, my understanding of a 4-3-3 setup is that the 3 forwards include a single target forward supported by two withdrawn forwards. I don't understand the need to argue (repeatedly) over the difference between the term "offensive midfielders" (in a 4-5-1) and "withdrawn forwards" (in a 4-3-3). The two formations seem related/hybrid/complimentary, in my mind. I agree with Jeffrey S., that this formation (regardless of the name) suits us very well and is a positive legacy left by Frank Yallop. Radz, deRosario and Hume are all great withdrawn attackers, capable (and willing) to track back in support of our midfield's defending and build-up. Not to mention that having a target forward is very useful against Latin opponents [read: WC qualifying]. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grizzly Posted November 11, 2006 Share Posted November 11, 2006 quote:Originally posted by Ceres Yes, this is correct. If i should make a guess, then thy did not really think of calling Issey despite his very good performance against FCK, but then they probably watched how Heerenveen were totally overmatched and dismantled at home by Danish OB Odense in the UEFA cup, then to notice that Issey scored his 5th goal of the season a few days later against the very same Odense team. . National teams don't call up players at the last minute based on one or two games (especially one in which the particular player did not even play in, ie. Heerenveen vs. Odense). The more likely scenario is that Issey was not the first choice to be called up but that someone else for whatever reason could not play. Issey was then contacted on short notice because he was either the first alternative selection at the position or the first alternative who agreed to play on such short notice. Hainault, for example, seems to have been informed about his selection much earlier than Issey and one can assume that most of the other players were informed at the same time as Hainault. That being said I think Issey is a good selection even though he is probably a borderline selection at present. One of the functions of friendlies is to take a look at borderline selections to see if they can perform at a higher level and to get them involved in our program. This is especially important for players with multiple citizenship. In the last three years Issey has succesfully gone up a level in league each year (Singapore, Denmark 2, Denmark 1) while continuing to perform at each new level. At the very least one could expect that in the likely situation of Vejle getting relegated he might sign with a better Danish team in the top flight. Regardless of whether he continues to improve or not, we have a much better chance at cap-tieing a player if we call him early than if we wait until other stronger soccer nations are also expressing interest in him. This was one of the problems in the Daniel Fernandez situation, there were times where he might have been a borderline callup but that was when he should have been called not after he had caught the eye of Portugal (I am not saying he would have definitely chose us over Portugal had we done this but it certainly would have increased our chances). I agree with others that even though I didn't think much of how Hart prepared the team for the first Jamaica match, his selections so far have been pretty good (although it would be nice to know what is behind the Lars situation unless we are to believe wildboy's theories . This at least is refreshing considering the difficulties that poor selections have caused us in the recent past. On the other hand there is a big difference in being able to select a good squad and being able to prepare them properly and design a tactical plan that suits the players and the opposition we are playing. Most of the Voyageur posters can come up with a pretty good roster but wouldn't be very good national team coaches. It will be interesting to see how we look against a team that should be a step up from Jamaica. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ubuntu Posted November 11, 2006 Share Posted November 11, 2006 quote:Originally posted by David C. The two formations seem related/hybrid/complimentary, in my mind. That's true, it's related but not the same. It's like Spain-France in the last world cup. Spain lost with a 4-3-3 inspired by the Barça way vs the more pragmatic system of France (4-2-3-1). The problem with the 4-3-3 is that you need a team like Barca to have succes with it, you must keep possesion of the ball and I don't think we have the midfield to that kind of works because we are not strong enough on a technical point of view, but it's true that it's really entertaining way to play football. Anyway the most important goal is the qualification for 2010, so we will see what the next coach will do with that. Hungary-Norway in Euro qualification 2008 on Youtube. Terrible mistake by Hungary... http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gCy5XynGHHs Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Jeffery S. Posted November 12, 2006 Share Posted November 12, 2006 quote:Originally posted by Daniel In regards to FIFA approval of formations, look carefully at the original message . I sound like a broken record on this, but we're clearly not playing 4-3-3: it's a 4-5-1 with Friend being the target man (and before that it was Ali in Vienna). Vs. Spain, which I have in my brain as I was there, it was definitely, 100% a 4-3-3. In all such formations the outside strikers have to drop back to pick up attacking outside backs and help with the midfield, but we never had DeRo playing alongside the mids, he was up high and came back when necessary, Radz less so. May have been different vs. Austria, have not seen that. Nor Jamaica. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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