Wow - Thunder Dan

[nolando]

I actually felt nauseous when I read this:

In the bbcsport gossip section:

Chelsea have approached PAOK Salonika's Portugal Under-21 international Daniel Fernandes about solving their goalkeeper crisis. (Daily Mail)

And he or his best friend isn't even the source of this fine little promo piece!!

http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport2/hi/football/gossip_and_transfers/6090128.stm

But I mean, it's not like he didn't want to play for us...

[Guest Can. in UK]

Nausea was my exact reaction too.

The Daily Mail, however, is far from the most reliable source. It generally recognized as a tool for agents to pitch players/managers.

Last year they reported Chelsea was interested in Tel Ben Haim.

Please.

[Manuel]

Here is the article in the Daily Mail. It still pisses me off every time we talk about Fernandes. I guess on the bright side Portugal might have someone in line to replace Ricardo. F..k'n Yallop & Mitchel, what a bunch of morons. Nothing against our keepers, but how often do you hear Karim, Sutton, Lars, Stamatopolus, & Wagenaar mentioned in the same article with Chelsea?

Portugal keeper in Chelsea reckoning

Chelsea have approached Portugal Under 21 international Daniel Fernandes about solving the club's goalkeeper crisis.

Seeking a replacement for the long-term injured Petr Cech, Chelsea have sounded out the 23-year-old, who is with Greek club PAOK Salonika, about further expanding the Portuguese colony at Stamford Bridge.

Fernandes said: "I know Chelsea are watching me because they had a scout here in Greece and he spoke to my agent. They watched me in my last game.

"Of course, Chelsea would be a dream for me but the deal is not done yet."

Chelsea have also had French-based goalkeeper Stephane Porato, 33, on trial this week but have so far not offered him any contract.

[The Beaver]

I still maintain, that if he REALLY wanted to play for Canada, he would have bided his time. Can't stand these prima donnas. Fernandez, me thinks, is a hater.

[loyola]

I agree with The Beaver.

[Manuel]

Bide his time? Give me a break. If you play at a high level, that is your time bided. I'm sure he wouldn't have been the first keeper to be called to a national team at a young age. And with Mitchell being Canada's next coach, he would have to wait another 4 years. He wanted to play for Canada, Canada kept refusing. Why should he wait, especially if he had other options.

[Guest Ed]

The CSA totally dropped the ball with Fernandes, Mitchell first and foremost. Fernandes REALLY wanted to play for Canada and Mitchell ignored him over over goalkeepers who have gone on to show they were not international caliber or in fact even of decent professional caliber. I suppose the usual flag-wavers will again blame the player for inaction, saying it was entirely up to the player to commit. Fernandes did everything but fly to Ottawa and camp out on the front lawn of 36 Metcalfe St and yet was spurned by the CSA.

And now we have a lame duck gesture by Colin Linform in saying we have to have our best players commit to Canada. In fact, the CSA has a long history of being unable to deal with very talented players, trying to bully and intimidate them into making decisions when a velvet glove is called for. Their handling of Hooper (for the 2nd time) and Latham is a perfect example of the suits engaging in a dick-swinging display when subtle diplomacy is the better option.

Goodbye Hargreaves, Fernandes and de Guzman. Two down, one to go.

[Canuck Oranje]

Learning how to deal with "prima donnas" is a necessary requirement for any coach dealing with elite athletes.

I have no idea to what degree the athletes in question had an initial interest in playing for Canada, but, I think it is important for the CSA to recognize that they too have a responsibility to create a program that is attractive to players with multiple options.

While I agree with Linford and coaches that say that it is important to have players on the National Team who have committed to the program, the CSA National Team program also has an obligation to players who commit to give them the best chance possible to be successful. That means aggressively pursuing adequate funding, having a well-documented and public long-term strategy for success, and securing the services of a highly-respected (among the players)National team coach who knows how to extract the best performances out of players and can organize the team to provide the greatest success.

[redhat]

We should stop beating up ourselves with these news and issues. I'm sure

some embarassment is also felt at the CSA should Chelsea sign him.

I respect everyone's opinions on this matter, and wish Daniel all the very best

in his career, but I fail to see what blaming ourselves would bring to the table.

We have enough of a goalkeeper controversy as it is.

[Prelude]

People don't forget that MNT also has players that were not born in Canada & decided to play for us. The CSA has to treat their players better maybe some players would play for Canada. And you can't blame a player for want ing to play for his nationally of his parents.

[Ivan]

quote:Originally posted by Ed

The CSA totally dropped the ball with Fernandes, Mitchell first and foremost. Fernandes REALLY wanted to play for Canada and Mitchell ignored him over over goalkeepers who have gone on to show they were not international caliber or in fact even of decent professional caliber. I suppose the usual flag-wavers will again blame the player for inaction, saying it was entirely up to the player to commit. Fernandes did everything but fly to Ottawa and camp out on the front lawn of 36 Metcalfe St and yet was spurned by the CSA.

And now we have a lame duck gesture by Colin Linform in saying we have to have our best players commit to Canada. In fact, the CSA has a long history of being unable to deal with very talented players, trying to bully and intimidate them into making decisions when a velvet glove is called for. Their handling of Hooper (for the 2nd time) and Latham is a perfect example of the suits engaging in a dick-swinging display when subtle diplomacy is the better option.

Goodbye Hargreaves, Fernandes and de Guzman. Two down, one to go.

I do not think Mitchell dropped the ball in 2003. He went with who he thought was the better keeper at the time, and Karim did nothing to prove him wrong. Performed quite admirably, actually. In the lead up games to 2003, Fernandes had let in some questionable goals that irked Mitchell, hence his decision to use Karim. Since then, there is no question who the better keeper has been. Good on Fernandes, but no fault of Mitchell's.

Yeah, I'll wave the flag and add that Fernandes was doing all he could to play for Canada ............that is until Portugal came calling at the same time Canada did.

[Guest Jeffery S.]

I can say that Daniel was never a prima donna, ambitious but never felt he was a star. In fact he is very loyal to those giving him support. If it were not the case he would not have signed a contract extension with Paokthis year, a team with serious financial problems, that does not even pay its players properly (lost their UEFA spot because of it to boot; Daniel literally had to ask for money, like the other players, when he needed it, as the owner was deep in the red), instead of taking a better offer from one of the Athens teams.

He never refused a Canada call. He was at Charleston, they could have capped him there. They also could have taken him to the World u21s, which Mitchell promised to him personally he would do (I still have the preliminary list of players that were set to go to the previous camp, which included him; after the Irak crisis it was delayed and he fell off the picture, wasn't good enough that he was at Celta Vigo and Karim was at Syracuse.)

He has been playing at least for a year and a half as a starter for Paok (since May 2005 by my calculations). Has played UEFA Cup. This was simply a case of a couple of coaches blowing it, not saying you can't miss a talent, it happens, but in this case I think they were simply intimidated by someone who believed in himself. This is their incompetence, as their job is to recognize and encourage talent to improve our national team, and a player's job is to play well. Daniel has done his job, our national team coaches have not.

I am damn proud of you Daniel, great work

PS. I have not been in touch with him for a good long while must admit.

[SeanKeay]

Man o MAN.... i love daniel fernandez, this story keeps getting better and better every year, sure i would like him to play for canada, but either or..

ONEHELL OF A SOAP!!

[George]

As someone who has seen Daniel play quite a few times during his POAK career, I don't think he is Chelsea material. He is prone to letting in some really bad goals. For example, he let one really soft goal this year vs. Olympiakos. I think that he has problems handling corners.

What might be attractive to Chelsea, however, is the fact that Daniel is not cup-tied. PAOK was banned from UEFA competitions because of their poor financial situation.

That said I still think that it is a tragedy that he is not playing for us!! I don’t know how much better he is than our group of guys…but he definitely deserved his shot.

[Guest Ed]

quote:Originally posted by Ivan

I do not think Mitchell dropped the ball in 2003. He went with who he thought was the better keeper at the time, and Karim did nothing to prove him wrong. Performed quite admirably, actually. In the lead up games to 2003, Fernandes had let in some questionable goals that irked Mitchell, hence his decision to use Karim. Since then, there is no question who the better keeper has been. Good on Fernandes, but no fault of Mitchell's.

Yeah, I'll wave the flag and add that Fernandes was doing all he could to play for Canada ............that is until Portugal came calling at the same time Canada did.

I'd like some evidence that Fernandes let in some questionable goals in the lead up to 2003. That has never been said as far as I know. I spoke to Mitchell in depth about the goalkeeping situation in the run up to 2003 and I could not really pin him down on his reluctance to give Fernandes a game. His response was that other keepers looked good in camp and that being with a high profile club didn't necessarily mean you were staying in top form day to day. There was no mention of specific poor performances. Daniel gave up 3 goals in 'official' competitions, a 1-0 loss to Costa Rica in the fall of 2002 (goal scored on a PK) and a 2-1 loss to Panama in the fall of 2003 (one goal was a PK). He was absolutely outstanding against Germany in a couple of exhibitions played in the spring of 2002. Please post facts if you are going to say someone played poorly.

[loyola]

quote:Originally posted by Jeffrey S.

He never refused a Canada call. He was at Charleston, they could have capped him there. They also could have taken him to the World u21s, which Mitchell promised to him personally he would do (I still have the preliminary list of players that were set to go to the previous camp, which included him; after the Irak crisis it was delayed and he fell off the picture, wasn't good enough that he was at Celta Vigo and Karim was at Syracuse.)

That's means absolutely nothing. Your not always better than another player because you're playing with a better club. I'm sure Daniel started a few friendlies for our U-20s because Mitchell felt that he was the best at that time, not because he was playing with Porto. The same apply for Karim, he won the starting job and did well.

Today history shows us that Fernandes was a better pro prospect than Karim (who to be fair to him suffered a very serious injury in HUngary during one of his first game as a pro). That's fair, I have no problem with that, but it will never prove that Fernandes was a better keeper than Karim in 2003.

What about Mitchell starting Wagenaar (an NCAA guy) over Giacomi (who was playing at Glasgow Rangers at that time) in 2005? Today history is telling us that Josh was a better pro prospect than Roberto (who we haven't heard about for a year or so). It's the reverse situation, but it proves that sometimes it's not because you're playing NCAA soccer that you cannot be better than a guy who's with the U-19 side of a pro team.

Sometimes we're forgetting that in the NCAA some of our 18-19 and 20 yrs old youth NT players are facing sides where the average age is 22-23 yrs old(kind of an U-23 league). I'm pretty sure the best NCAA teams can take any U-19 EPL or Bundesliga side without a problem.

[loyola]

quote:Originally posted by Ed

I'd like some evidence that Fernandes let in some questionable goals in the lead up to 2003. That has never been said as far as I know. I spoke to Mitchell in depth about the goalkeeping situation in the run up to 2003 and I could not really pin him down on his reluctance to give Fernandes a game. His response was that other keepers looked good in camp and that being with a high profile club didn't necessarily mean you were staying in top form day to day. There was no mention of specific poor performances. Daniel gave up 3 goals in 'official' competitions, a 1-0 loss to Costa Rica in the fall of 2002 (goal scored on a PK) and a 2-1 loss to Panama in the fall of 2003 (one goal was a PK). He was absolutely outstanding against Germany in a couple of exhibitions played in the spring of 2002. Please post facts if you are going to say someone played poorly.

I've heard that it was that game in Panama where he had a bad game.It could be a decision based on his overall performance not only on soft goals?

But no matter if he had a good or a bad game, why does the coach decides all of a sudden to switch keeper (a big decision for a team that can lead to some instability in the defense cohesion) just before the start of qualifying tournament?

[Ivan]

Point taken on the facts issue Ed. IIRC, it was the Panama game where he let in the two goals and was pulled at half, one of the goals may have been on a PK (I have no reason to doubt you), but the other was weak. I do not remember him taking the field for Mitchell after that game (again, going by memory only).

I guess my point was that it was a coach's decision, and at the time, whether it be Charleston or UAE, it did not prove to be the wrong choice.

[Manuel]

At the time it may have been the right decision, but it was the wrong decision for the Men’s National Team. Everything in the Men’s program should be done with the Men’s World Cup team in mind. If the potential was there that one day he could play for Portugal, then you make sure you he can't. It would not have hurt the U20's for him to play one game. I'll give an example. In the recent U21 qualifying round, Portugal had to play Poland at home and needed to win, however senior men’s coach Scolari chooses Nani, and Mountino, the U21's two best players, for the national team game. Instead of bitching, the U21 coach says his job is to prepare his players for a senior call up, even at the expense of a qualifying game. Anytime a Canadian men’s team plays, the senior team should be the focus.

[loyola]

I'm not sure I understand you Manuel but I think you're trying to say that Mitchell should've played Fernandes in an official youth game in order to cap him? Am I right?

If that's what you're saying here's my response: The coach job is to win games and devellop those players (I mean preparing them for CONCACAF competition) and I don't think it would've been OK to play DF just because he was eligible to play for another country. The coach has to select his players on the basis of who deserves to play not "who should I play because if I don't he might end up playing for the Faroe Islands in 5 yrs". At that time Mitchell didn,t know the future so if he felt Karim was more deserving or a better fit for the team so be it, it end up being a good coaching decision on the basis of results for this team.

If that wasn't what you meant I apologize.

[Daniel]

[Cheeta]

<Mod>

Just doing a bit of housekeeping. The discussion has migrated over into another topic, and accordingly has been sheppard' back to where it belongs.

Interesting, and not uncivil back and forth by the way.

(Couple of darts flying but nothing to be concearned with in my opinion)

Love and Kisses

Cheeta

</Mod>

mjoni

Göteborg

Sweden

240 Posts

Posted - 10/30/2006 : 13:09:53

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Now taking bets on how long before Issey Nakajima-Farran gets called by one of his five? potential countries. With this kid's form the way it is right now, this will turn into another DeJong before the CSA has even heard of him.

bettermirror

Fraser Valley

Canada

1503 Posts

Posted - 10/30/2006 : 13:37:21

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

we can't go capping people jsut so other countries can't. is he ahead of Hume, Occean, Friend, Radzinski, Simpson etc etc etc, Johnson, Lombardo? No, I don't think he is. He is on a bottom-dwelling Danish team. Ya he is on-form and might be worth a look in a friendly if the above mentioned are unavailable. but selecting people just cuz isn't a good enough reason. not selecting Dan Fernandes (who WILL NOT be at Chelsea - they have HIlario and Cudicini, they are in a better spot than 99% of teams in that department without Cech) was a decision which made sense. Stama, Sutton, Hirsch, Begovic, Onstad were all ahead of him at the time for good reason. If he bolts cuz it doesn't work out with his personal schedule than he can go to the same place Hargreaves has in our eyes.

Ed

Calgary

Canada

1734 Posts

Posted - 10/30/2006 : 14:53:37

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

quote:

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Originally posted by bettermirror

... not selecting Dan Fernandes (who WILL NOT be at Chelsea - they have HIlario and Cudicini, they are in a better spot than 99% of teams in that department without Cech) was a decision which made sense. Stama, Sutton, Hirsch, Begovic, Onstad were all ahead of him at the time for good reason. If he bolts cuz it doesn't work out with his personal schedule than he can go to the same place Hargreaves has in our eyes.

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Can you come again with that next spring when I have to fertilze my garden?

loyola

quebec city

Canada

1534 Posts

Posted - 10/30/2006 : 15:39:48

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

quote:

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Originally posted by bettermirror

we can't go capping people jsut so other countries can't. is he ahead of Hume, Occean, Friend, Radzinski, Simpson etc etc etc, Johnson, Lombardo? No, I don't think he is. He is on a bottom-dwelling Danish team. Ya he is on-form and might be worth a look in a friendly if the above mentioned are unavailable. but selecting people just cuz isn't a good enough reason. not selecting Dan Fernandes (who WILL NOT be at Chelsea - they have HIlario and Cudicini, they are in a better spot than 99% of teams in that department without Cech) was a decision which made sense. Stama, Sutton, Hirsch, Begovic, Onstad were all ahead of him at the time for good reason. If he bolts cuz it doesn't work out with his personal schedule than he can go to the same place Hargreaves has in our eyes.

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

You're right that we cannot start capping players just because they could end up elsewhere, it's an unfair game toward the players who deserves the call.

I'm not sure you're DF is adequate but if what you meant is that players should sometime be patient I would agree with you. It's not because you haven't been called for 2-3 games that the staff is overlooking you. We aren't playing enough games to afford to disrupt our team every time a new player is playing well in his league (unless it's in a strong league or a proven club, that would warrant an immediate call).

In DF case it seems that other problems interfered for a while but in the end it was reported that the coach made contact with him so if he wanted to play for us he would've accept the invitation.

I've never seen Issey play but we have already some forwards who are playing at a higher level (Hume, Radz, Occean, Friend and Simpson) so I'm not sure it's deserving a call. If he continues to score at this level and Vejle remains in top flight Danish football, I think it will be time to give the guy a look.

The Beaver

Vancouver

Canada

1222 Posts

Posted - 10/30/2006 : 17:22:35

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Nice to see at least a handful of you agree that our program cannot and should not be held hostage by the whims and fancies of a young man whose allegiance to Canada is flimsy at best. Again, if he truly wanted to play for Canada, he would have paid his dues, bided his time, and taken the chance when it came. His lack of patience and a perceived sense of entitlement reek of arrogance, especially when compared to the players who have bided their time, paid their dues, and have answered the call (gladly) to play for our country. The Fernandez apologists need to get some national self-esteem. I want players on my team who want to be there, not the ones who think they are owed a spot. The apologists can tell me that I'm wrong, that they know better, but the optics on this aren't good for Danny.

Ed

Calgary

Canada

1734 Posts

Posted - 10/30/2006 : 17:42:16

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

quote:

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Originally posted by The Beaver

Nice to see at least a handful of you agree that our program cannot and should not be held hostage by the whims and fancies of a young man whose allegiance to Canada is flimsy at best. Again, if he truly wanted to play for Canada, he would have paid his dues, bided his time, and taken the chance when it came. His lack of patience and a perceived sense of entitlement reek of arrogance, especially when compared to the players who have bided their time, paid their dues, and have answered the call (gladly) to play for our country. The Fernandez apologists need to get some national self-esteem. I want players on my team who want to be there, not the ones who think they are owed a spot. The apologists can tell me that I'm wrong, that they know better, but the optics on this aren't good for Danny.

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Nice to see you congratulating a few other Cdns for not sympathising with a 2nd rate Porkchop Cdn with "flimsy" ties to Canada. Or did I read that wrong? You sound like Parizeau apres le Referendum.

Fernandes (note the spelling) wanted to play for us and was jobbed for reasons known to only a few buried within the CSA. Where is this "arrogance" you speak of? I don't recall any quote from Daniel saying he was "owed a spot". A few people, myself included, who are of the opinion that a player starting and starring in big games for a 1st division team in Europe deserves a cap and a look, have taken up his cause but to accuse the player of arrogance is really quite a stretch.

Criticising his talent (as done by BetterMirror) and his love of Canada (by you) is the 'apologist' action. The only "optics" we have are asinine posts like yours that reach conclusions with absolutely no basis in facts. For reasons that will never see the light of day, we never capped what will likely prove to be a real Cdn-bred talent. That's the real shame.

loyola

quebec city

Canada

1534 Posts

Posted - 10/30/2006 : 19:54:12

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

quote:

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Originally posted by Ed

quote:

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Originally posted by The Beaver

Nice to see at least a handful of you agree that our program cannot and should not be held hostage by the whims and fancies of a young man whose allegiance to Canada is flimsy at best. Again, if he truly wanted to play for Canada, he would have paid his dues, bided his time, and taken the chance when it came. His lack of patience and a perceived sense of entitlement reek of arrogance, especially when compared to the players who have bided their time, paid their dues, and have answered the call (gladly) to play for our country. The Fernandez apologists need to get some national self-esteem. I want players on my team who want to be there, not the ones who think they are owed a spot. The apologists can tell me that I'm wrong, that they know better, but the optics on this aren't good for Danny.

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Nice to see you congratulating a few other Cdns for not sympathising with a 2nd rate Porkchop Cdn with "flimsy" ties to Canada. Or did I read that wrong? You sound like Parizeau apres le Referendum.

Fernandes (note the spelling) wanted to play for us and was jobbed for reasons known to only a few buried within the CSA. Where is this "arrogance" you speak of? I don't recall any quote from Daniel saying he was "owed a spot". A few people, myself included, who are of the opinion that a player starting and starring in big games for a 1st division team in Europe deserves a cap and a look, have taken up his cause but to accuse the player of arrogance is really quite a stretch.

Criticising his talent (as done by BetterMirror) and his love of Canada (by you) is the 'apologist' action. The only "optics" we have are asinine posts like yours that reach conclusions with absolutely no basis in facts. For reasons that will never see the light of day, we never capped what will likely prove to be a real Cdn-bred talent. That's the real shame.

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

I think The Beaver missed some informations about Fernandes and his mistaking him with someone else.

I don,t understand why the CSA is at fault here, why it is always the CSA fault. Maybe you can accuse DM or FY of overlooking him but I don't see how the CSA is responsible for this. Lack of games, CSA's fault but DF case isn't the CSA fault unless you have info about the CSA blacklisting him.

As for the chance of capping him, I don't like the idea of our coaches having to play a player just because he's eligible for another country. I've heard DM in an interview saying that he thought Karim was better AT THAT TIME, and that's why he went with him in goal. To me that's a fair answer and I don't see how a coach would start his weaker keeper in U20WCQ. As for the clash between the two I have no idea who's fault it is, but it happenned when DF was relegated to the bench and we can assume that he was unhappy with his role (that's fair, I can understand a player being concern after being put to the bench). We don't know what was said but I'm not sure we can really blame entirely DM who hasn't the reputation of clashing with his players (Uccello would be the other example that comes to mind and he has never been a starter for us and he's playing in 5th division in Italy).

That bring us to FY responsability in this case. DF won the starting spot at PAOK at the beginning of last season (august or september), so at that time I think it's fair to say that he was begining to be an interesting prospect for Yallop. So, he had only 2 chances of calling him: Luxembourg and Austria (USA wasn't on an international date and they had a training camp before the game). In the Lux game Lars was call with Kenny and Begovic came as a last minute replacement, I'm not sure it was a crime not calling him. And Yallop said before the Austria game that he was in contact with Fernandes agent I think and that he was exploring other options.

Maybe FY should've been quicker calling DF. But when we take into account that DF overlooked our MNT to play with Portugal U21 as a back up, I'm questionning his interest into playing for Canada. Being cap at the U21 level isn't a guarantee that he'll play for the Senior side of day, especially if he was a back up (maybe he will). So he made that decision when he could've wait to see what was going to happen to him (a transfer to Chelsea?), I think he was in no hurry to choose a NT.

I'm under the impression that he was interested in playing for us when he was with the U20's but the problems with DM didn't help and he decided to go with Portugal when they came calling. Putting the fault on DM for choosing a player over another would be extremely unfair toward the coach unless we have proof that he did it for other reasons than "best player available".

Cheeta

Winnipeg

Canada

2767 Posts

Posted - 10/30/2006 : 21:47:29

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Just going to jump into this thread-jack for a minute. We do some pretty funny stuff sometimes it seems when it comes to player selections but 'keeper is hard to try someone out at. There's just the one slot available, and it's not unheard of a player refusing a call up if he's not certain to be played. Especially a player who's on the bubble as it were. If our NT managers (youth, senior, whatever) are taking the reluctance of a 'keeper who's trying to find work not wanting to waiste time sitting on Canada's bench as a sign of non-commitment, time which could overwise be better spent trying to secure a career (you know, the paying gigs) then our NT managers are out of touch.

Sorry. But if that's the case then they are.

Re; Capping players who may have other NT options pre-maturely. I'm all for it. To a point. <shrug>. Don't kid yourself. Nobody gets treated equaly in any workplace. Your supervisor, employer or whoever reads you as best they can and handles you in a fashion they feel is most appropriate or most effective. That's why some people are better paid than others for no good reason except that they're more open to "moving on". Why would you think footie should be any different?

Karim at the U20s showed a very good 'keeper. At least I thought so. Karim had an excellent tourny and justified his inclusion. Holding up his performance as an example of DF being mistreated by the CSA (or it's agents) doesn't float.

That little has come of it since then is neither here nor there. That's life.

loyola

quebec city

Canada

1534 Posts

Posted - 10/30/2006 : 22:01:01

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

quote:

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Originally posted by Cheeta

Just going to jump into this thread-jack for a minute. We do some pretty funny stuff sometimes it seems when it comes to player selections but 'keeper is hard to try someone out at. There's just the one slot available, and it's not unheard of a player refusing a call up if he's not certain to be played. Especially a player who's on the bubble as it were. If our NT managers (youth, senior, whatever) are taking the reluctance of a 'keeper who's trying to find work not wanting to waiste time sitting on Canada's bench as a sign of non-commitment, time which could overwise be better spent trying to secure a career (you know, the paying gigs) then our NT managers are out of touch.

Sorry. But if that's the case then they are.

Re; Capping players who may have other NT options pre-maturely. I'm all for it. To a point. <shrug>. Don't kid yourself. Nobody gets treated equaly in any workplace. Your supervisor, employer or whoever reads you as best they can and handles you in a fashion they feel is most appropriate or most effective. That's why some people are better paid than others for no good reason except that they're more open to "moving on". Why would you think footie should be any different?

Karim at the U20s showed a very good 'keeper. At least I thought so. Karim had an excellent tourny and justified his inclusion. Holding up his performance as an example of DF being mistreated by the CSA (or it's agents) doesn't float.

That little has come of it since then is neither here nor there. That's life.

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Since only qualifiers will cap-tie a player in youth football, starting to cap players because they have other possibilities will result in jeopardizing our chances of qualifications. I don,t think it's right or that it's the purpose of our youth programs to do this. Of course, if after the first 2 games we're qualified I don't mind us playing or other players. But in the end if we don,t want to disrespect our players (and I think one of the point from people like Ed is that we're already disrespecting them) and discourage them about our program I think our coaches have an obligation to play the best players available according to them not following a guideline of playing the "multinationality guys".

As for capping players at the Senior level I,m not sure we can afford that with our low number of friendlies per year.

THREADJACKING ALERT: I THINK A MOD SHOULD COPY THOSE POSTS AND PUT IT IN THE FERNANDES THREAD (WOW-THUNDER DAN).

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Edited by - loyola on 10/30/2006 22:33:03

The Beaver

Vancouver

Canada

1222 Posts

Posted - 10/30/2006 : 23:05:22

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Sorry-I thought this was the Wow-Thunder Dan thread. Yeah, feel free to chop and paste.

Yes, I expected Ed's usual self-hating Canadian vitriol. He'll more readily side with somebody who abandons his country cheaply than those lads who stick with us. Fernandes made a decision that speaks for itself. So he didn't get to play for us when he wanted to: boo-hoo. Cry me a frickin river. Again, if Dan truly wanted to play for us, he would have continued on with his career and bided his time. It is NOT as if he suddenly needed to opt for Portugal because Canada had abandoned him for all time. The doors had not been closed forever.

And to be clear, I've not once referred to Dan has a third rate keeper, nor have I called into question his being called by Yallop once he'd started showing real signs of developing in Greece. remember, Fernandes only really warranted a look after he got stuck in with his Greek club. Many of you have admitted this in previous posts. And remember, too, that it was at this time that he decided to go for Portugal. Opportunistic? Sure, and fair enough. But don't tell me he really wanted to play for Canada. His actions speak plenty. Man, we should consider annexing Alberta and making it a Canadian province.

[Guest Jeffery S.]

Just to clear up details. Thunder was only called in January of this year, from what I understand, when he was already close to going for Portugal. So he did not get a call from the CSA before our November game, which he could have easily.

Further, Daniel continually turned down interest from Portugal over quite a long period of time. Remember that as an u-17 (he is now 23)he played for Oporto and won the league there, while the next season he was at the same age group and they lost the final. So he was a Portugal national youth program prospect already six years ago, and only played for them finally this year, in January. He received an offer from Oporto to continue, so his profile would have been high in Portugal as well if he had done so.

So you can't argue that he did not wait long enough for Canada and then ignore the fact that he turned down opportunities to play youth for Portugal for an even longer period. He in fact has still played more games and has responded to more call-ups for Canada than Portugal, though was not capped.

There a few guys on this board whose concept of Canada is so pathetically immature that it is embarassing. Masochistic mentalities amongst the fans, corresponding results on the teams? Stop slagging the guy for finally, after an almost 6 year wait, deciding to go where someone actually cared about his talents and stop apologizing for Dale and Frank and the CSA, who I am sure are old enough to make their own excuses for you.

[loyola]

When I'm saying that we should not cap player a player because he's eligible for another country, I'm using the DM response to a question on this very same topic of DF (that as a coach his role is to use the best players available and that he cannot making selection base on players eligibility). I'm on DM side for this one, he thought Karim was a better fit for this team and that we would qualify with him in goal, I have no problem with his selection. DM had 3 games to cap DF but all of them were important and he choosed to play his #1 which is quite understandable.

If I'm so pathetic Jeffrey S. , please tell me when DM could've capped DF?

[loyola]

When I'm saying that we should not cap player a player because he's eligible for another country, I'm using the DM response to a question on this very same topic of DF (that as a coach his role is to use the best players available and that he cannot making selection base on players eligibility). I'm on DM side for this one, he thought Karim was a better fit for this team and that we would qualify with him in goal, I have no problem with his selection. DM had 3 games to cap DF but all of them were important and he choosed to play his #1 which is quite understandable.

If I'm so pathetic Jeffrey S. , please tell me when DM could've capped DF?