Tony Waiters: "League launched careers"

[sstackho]

Tony Waiters

Sports

League launched careers

Tony Waiters

Vancouver Sun

629 words

21 June 2006

Vancouver Sun

Final

E2

English

Copyright © 2006 Vancouver Sun

A good friend of mine back in the Old Country often says: "Soccer is a game of opinions." He then goes on to name top-class -- in some cases world- class -- players, who were rejected by one coach but encouraged by another, eventually emerging at the top of the soccer world.

Peter Beardsley, brought to the Whitecaps in 1981, is one such player. Many clubs -- including Manchester United -- passed on Beardsley before he came to Vancouver, but after his Whitecaps days he went on to greatness with Newcastle, Liverpool, Everton and, of course, England's World Cup team.

Bruce Grobbelaar was recruited to the Whitecaps after he'd been sent packing from West Bromwich Albion by manager Ron Atkinson, the same guy who said no to Peter Beardsley.

Grobbelaar didn't gain World Cup notoriety, as he was born and played for Zimbabwe, but he became the winningest goalkeeper in the history of English and European soccer while playing for Liverpool during the '80s and '90s.

Bob Lenarduzzi and I often share the same opinion on the game of soccer in Canada, but not always. For instance, he thinks a Canadian national soccer league is a waste of time. He points out, quite rightly, that it has been tried before. He then claims it failed. But did it?

If you track the history of the old Canadian Soccer League from its inception in 1987 through to its demise in 1992, you will see the emergence of some excellent soccer players, who would never have had an opportunity had it not been for the CSL. Tomasz Radzinski (North York Rockets), Paul Peschisolido (Toronto Blizzard), Alex Bunberry (Montreal Supra ), Paul Fenwick (Winnipeg, Toronto and Hamilton), Mark Watson (Ottawa, Hamilton and Vancouver), Carlo Corazzin and Pat Onstad (both with the Winnipeg Fury). The list goes on.

Without the CSL showcasing and developing their talents, most of these players would not have had the long professional careers they had -- albeit mainly in Europe. Lenarduzzi suggests Whitecaps-style franchises are the way to go in the USL league, including more Canadian teams. He may be right. But not too many cities in Canada (or the U.S.) have access to a person with the vision, not to mention the finances, of a Greg Kerfoot.

Lest we forget, for 15 years the Whitecaps/86ers were never certain of continuing from one year to the next.

Calgary and Edmonton have been in and out of every pro soccer league on the continent, from the NASL to the CSL to the USL. Each and every time they folded. The Toronto Lynx can't win a game and can't draw a crowd.

The Major League of Soccer supplies one-third of the U.S. squad in Germany right now, and the MLS moves to Toronto next year. Maybe new stadiums in Montreal and Vancouver would allow for more MLS franchises to Canada. That would be great for the game here.

But would that be enough? Three pro clubs in Canada playing in the top league on the continent wouldn't provide sufficient opportunity for the many talented young Canadians that abound on our public parks here in Canada.

Would three teams be enough to sustain a squad of players capable of qualifying for the World Cup? On their own, I think not.

It's been 20 years since Canada last qualified for the World Cup finals. That successful team was a direct result of the old North American Soccer League.

I believe we can get there again -- but to do it, we need a "League of Our Own."

Tony Waiters coached the Canadian men's national team to its first, and last, World Cup berth in 1986.

[Winnipeg Fury]

He is right, and that is exactly what I have been saying all along.

Toronto MLS does nothing for Canada in the big picture. The Lynx will probably have a better track record for producing Canadian international talent. How many Canucks will be on the field for TO FC, 5 or 6 ? And in doing so will they kill of the Lynx ?

It may be great for the fans in TO, but if the big win scenerio for Canadian soccer is to have a couple of MLS clubs, that will do very little. Especially considering that it will be at the expense of a couple of USL clubs

I wonder who is going to produce the talent for these MLS clubs in a few years ? With no Canadian USL clubs, where will these players come from. Will the MLS clubs take the time to give exciting teenage prospects like Pesch, Rad, Aguir, Corazzin, Onstad, Fenwick, Bunbury, etc, quality playing time like the CSL did ? Not likely. MLS does not want teenage prospects that may or may not pan out.

Bruce Wilson echoed the same sentiments recently. The CSA is way off target hoping that MLS will lead us to the promised land.

[Regs]

Tony pretty much said the same thing when we had him on an Up Front show.

He also brought up an interesting idea where the MLS should buy out the USL to form a true national league with promotion and relegation.

He also called Reedy the fastest human on earth so we think he may have been drinking

For what it's worth, you can listen to his full chat here: http://www.takethepiss.com/index.php?page=upfront - episode 8.

Cheers,

~Regs.

[Richard]

Clearly opinions about Canadian MLS clubs are not universally shared.

[trueviking]

to suggest that having the top calibre league in our country will do nothing because it wont do what a developmental league will is ridiculous....thats like saying we shouldnt have the NHL, because they wont give a chance to a young player like the AHL will.

clearly both are required....developmental teams in a league like the USL or even better a canadian league in the second tier cities and major league calibre teams in our large cities.

development is great, but providing a place for players who are at the next level is important too.

[RS]

quote:Originally posted by Winnipeg Fury

MLS does not want teenage prospects that may or may not pan out.

Have to disagree with this statement, as MLS has shown that it is very willing to take risks on teenage prospects.

DaMarcus Beasley was 16 when he signed with MLS, as was Bobby Convey, Danny Szetela, Michael Bradley, Memo Gonzalez, etc.

[Winnipeg Fury]

quote:Originally posted by Rudi

Have to disagree with this statement, as MLS has shown that it is very willing to take risks on teenage prospects.

DaMarcus Beasley was 16 when he signed with MLS, as was Bobby Convey, Danny Szetela, Michael Bradley, Memo Gonzalez, etc.

You name a sprinkling of players over 10 years, signed by 10 teams. In a country as vast as Canada's, do you really think TO will be on top of every promising young player ? For every promising player (and I'm not just talking about signing, I'm talking about playing), there will be 99 that are missed. And that is being generous.

Would TO have signed Radzinski, Pesch, Bunbury, Aguir, Fenwick, Devos, etc....to playing time ? Not a hope. Chances are none would have been signed or noticed. These weren't star players at the time, (most were complete no-names) they developed into stars because they were given the chance to play.

[Winnipeg Fury]

quote:Originally posted by trueviking

to suggest that having the top calibre league in our country will do nothing because it wont do what a developmental league will is ridiculous....thats like saying we shouldnt have the NHL, because they wont give a chance to a young player like the AHL will.

clearly both are required....developmental teams in a league like the USL or even better a canadian league in the second tier cities and major league calibre teams in our large cities.

development is great, but providing a place for players who are at the next level is important too.

Our top players have done very well in Europe. MLS is not looking to develop players, they are looking at our players that are already of Euro-quality. TO FC are already whining about the lack of Canadian players ? We have 1 MLS team, and they are already whining !

Let's not forget that due to the clumsy move to MLS, the Canadian USL clubs have eliminated the Canadian quota. That is another strike against our young players trying to develop and further evidence that our domestic product is already being strained, even though MLS have yet to play a signle game.

You will never see a strong Canadian presence in the USL (or a Canadian league), without our 3 largest cities being involved. That is one of the reasons the CFL has remained viable for decades and why it has resisted any attempts by the NFL to enter Canada.

TO entering MLS is essentially the first move in righting off any professional prospects for the rest of Canada, with the exception of our 3 largest markets and everyone knows it. Why does the CSA and everyone involved in soccer aspire to have 3 MLS clubs ? Why not 4 or 5 ? Could one of those clubs be based in Alberta ? Of course not ! Everyone knows that it is Montreal, TO and Vancouver being discussed as potential cities. The rest of Canada is already written off.

It is no different than NBA or MLB. Even with MLS in it's infancy, cities like Winnipeg would have no hope of entering MLS regardless how much money was behind the venture. There are simply too many US cities that are as large or larger. Smaller Canadian cities are too small a market to generate TV revenue compared to US cities that have 2-5 million.

So TO MLS will kill off the Lynx, who have produced an abundance of Canadian talent over the decade, kill-off Canadian content quotas for Canadian USL clubs, kill-off any future prospects for a domestic laegue, just so they can repatriate half-dozen Canadians based in Scandinavia (which is counter-productive to their best development).

Sounds like a great move to me.

[An Observer]

I think he has been drinking...

He says we haven't made a world cup since the NASL days which is correct and then goes on to slam a similar model of having 3 teams in a North American league. When we had the CSL we did not qualify in 90 or 94 either which seems to work against his argument. Second, he forgets that just because we have the MLS, does not mean we can not have 5 or 6 sides in the USL 1st Division. I think he is correct in that 3 sides is not enough to develop talent but I would take 3 in the MLS and 6 in the USL 1st over 9 in a CSL league any day. As he makes the point, top English leagues discarded some players that the Whitecaps gave a second chance. These guys developed into top players. The same could happen with the USL feeding the MLS. In fact I would make the argument that if we get 3 Canadian sides in the MLS, their development will suffer if we have no sides in the USL 1st to help feed them.

[Winnipeg Fury]

quote:Originally posted by An Observer

I think he has been drinking...

He says we haven't made a world cup since the NASL days which is correct and then goes on to slam a similar model of having 3 teams in a North American league. When we had the CSL we did not qualify in 90 or 94 either which seems to work against his argument. Second, he forgets that just because we have the MLS, does not mean we can not have 5 or 6 sides in the USL 1st Division. I think he is correct in that 3 sides is not enough to develop talent but I would take 3 in the MLS and 6 in the USL 1st over 9 in a CSL league any day. As he makes the point, top English leagues discarded some players that the Whitecaps gave a second chance. These guys developed into top players. The same could happen with the USL feeding the MLS. In fact I would make the argument that if we get 3 Canadian sides in the MLS, their development will suffer if we have no sides in the USL 1st to help feed them.

"The same could happen with the USL feeding the MLS. In fact I would make the argument that if we get 3 Canadian sides in the MLS, their development will suffer if we have no sides in the USL 1st to help feed them." - You will not have 6 Canadian USL clubs with our three major cities in MLS. It simply will not happen. Canadian cities want Canadian rivalries. And if you should happen to get a club, don't expect that means significant Canadian content.

When the CSL started their first season 20 years ago, we were professionally far ahead of countries like Costa Rica and the USA. The talent level was rising dramatically every year and most observers were shocked even in the first year, stating that the talent level was far away what they expected. The domestic model takes time to develop. Like any investment, short term pain for long term gain. As for the 94 World Cup, that is probably the best team Canada ever assembled. Next to 1986, it was the closest we have ever come. With our current qualification system, Canada would have breezed through, and was robbed by an official in our last match (as I'm sure many remember). So yes, the CSL was producing results at every level, in terms of player development and international results that Holger and Yallop would have killed for.

[River City]

The topic that will never die and is sure to heat up again once Toronto MLS kicks-off......

I've always believed in the benefits of a CSL, but realistically you would need a lot of organization, money and would have to ensure that the operation would not go belly up in the first year. Rather than a full-scaled league that requires a lot of startup money though, there is another alternative. I lost most of my refeence material when my computer crashed a month ago (noooooooooooooo!) but if memory serves me, there used to be a lot of exhibition games in the 70s.

Edmonton for example could hold tryouts for a city 'selects' team that would play exhibition matches against other cities' 'selects' teams. The players wouldn't get paid, and all ticket revenue from the exhibitions would go to offset travel costs and field rentals, etc. I'm assuming fundraising would be a staple of each team in order to ensure a break even point, but it would be doable.

The best thing about it is that even if there are only 3 teams participating, that's fine. And even if they only play a couple of times that's fine too because there are no major financial commitments. This would be a baby step but an important one at that to hopefully kickstart something.

The major obstacle would be the CSA and the Provincial associations, but there is enough interest from players, administrators and fans alike to see

[mrebel]

I would agree with Waiters more if there had been some quality results in the 90's, when qualifying for the world cup. I think why many are so frustrated is that the CONCACAF was not this strong. The recent world cup results demonstrate this. Losing at homes to the likes of Guatemala is embarrassing. The CSA has to start having a sense of accountability. No matter how poorly Canada does, they have to answer to no one. It is always the same "we have to find a European/South American coach". There seems to be no clear plan and that is why Canada is the joke of the CONCACAF division.

[Richard]

With the MLS and USL as they are currently, any new Canadian domestic league would be second division at best - a development league for USLD1 and MLS - unless a huge amount of money was poured into the Canadian league and kept coming. Look how much money has been invested in the MLS and even they still cannot break even after 10 years of operation. The CPSL/CSL has been trying to re-create a Canadian domestic league for years and look how far they have got, or more correctly haven't. Stop your starry eyed dreaming guys and get real.

[Start fan in exile]

It needs to be built from the bottom up. Simply instituting a national league will not work. I could see something like a 4 regional, semi-pro leagues: Maritimes and Quebec, Ontario, Prairies, Western. They don't all have to have the same amount of teams but could all be in the 10-16 range. Have the winner of each enter a mini-tournament for the national championship (like the Memorial Cup).

Give that a few years, allow some local rivalries and community and business support to build up. Some franchises will fold, others will come. After a few years, once there is a solid base of support, then look to expansion buy insitituing a top tier that's national, two divisions at the second tier and 4 at the third. Allow promotion and relegation like in most other leagues in the world.

It would require a great deal of patience and cooperation between the regional governing bodies and the CSA (which may make it impossible!) but could work.

[Richard]

Such regional leagues, albeit mostly amateur, already exist in most of the regions in Canada. The problem of funding and player availability for travel becomes an issue, never mind different playing seasons.

[RS]

quote:Originally posted by Winnipeg Fury

You name a sprinkling of players over 10 years, signed by 10 teams. In a country as vast as Canada's, do you really think TO will be on top of every promising young player ? For every promising player (and I'm not just talking about signing, I'm talking about playing), there will be 99 that are missed. And that is being generous.

One MLS team would not be able to do that much, but three would stand a much better chance.

As romantic as a pan-Canadian league sounds, I just ain't gonna happen (at least not in the next 20 years), so the best we could hope for is three MLS clubs plus hopefully 4-5 USL D1 teams in places like Calgary, Edmonton, Hamilton, Ottawa, etc.

[argh1]

I'll weigh in on this subject again only because I want soccer to do well across our beloved country.

First of all as much as I'm not totally in favour of MLS, T-O FC I can see some good coming out of this move. I am disappointed that Canadian players will not be treated equally throughout MLS. No matter if my wish comes true of adding future MLS Canadian based teams or not. With CSA's commitment to MLS it has become essential that US and Canadian players be treated equally throughout the entire league this would be a big plus in the development of our senior age players. Since there is now a team in Canada there is no reason for MLS not to treat Canadian and US players as domestic players.

Yes, pro leagues are high profile and will and should get the attention they deserve. But I am amazed that the CSA which has a higher registration of players than either Hockey Canada or Baseball Canada cannot get junior or midget level development up to the standards of these two fine governing bodies.

Apples and oranges in a lot of ways I know. But Baseball Canada had it's highest number of Canadians ever drafted (38? I believe) by MLB in the 2006 draft and well Hockey Canada we all know. So why can't CSA with it's numbers get our junior and midget age players following a similar development programme? A good junior and midget age competition along with Canadians being treated equally in MLS will push our players development along. Senior age competition would surely follow into the regions.........

Sorry, turned into a rant, again

[]

[sj]

CSA mainly in the last 20 odd yrs has always rely on some other organisation to do their job for them.

What they dont understand is that our problems are challenges are different from most other countries and that it take a Canadian solutions and in some cases we will have to innovate and that is where the CSA have fail to deliver.

we need radical changes and ideas from our CEO and Directors

what we are hearing from them are the problems we face instead of the solutions and radical actions to catch up before we fall further behind to the point of no return.

[DoyleG]

quote:Originally posted by argh1

I'll weigh in on this subject again only because I want soccer to do well across our beloved country.

First of all as much as I'm not totally in favour of MLS, T-O FC I can see some good coming out of this move. I am disappointed that Canadian players will not be treated equally throughout MLS. No matter if my wish comes true of adding future MLS Canadian based teams or not. With CSA's commitment to MLS it has become essential that US and Canadian players be treated equally throughout the entire league this would be a big plus in the development of our senior age players. Since there is now a team in Canada there is no reason for MLS not to treat Canadian and US players as domestic players.

Yes, pro leagues are high profile and will and should get the attention they deserve.

MLS doesn't want to risk having teams replace American player with Canadian ones in order to reduce payroll costs. DeRo is no doubt a star in MLS but doesn't get paid at the levels equal to that of the MLS elite. Canadians in MLS don't generally earn as high of a salary so changing the rules won't be of a benefit to them.

quote:Originally posted by argh1

But I am amazed that the CSA which has a higher registration of players than either Hockey Canada or Baseball Canada cannot get junior or midget level development up to the standards of these two fine governing bodies.

It has to with more that Hockey Canada and Baseball Canada leave the development at the youth level to their PA's and the leagues that are run by them. Only when it comes to national championships or national teams do they really get involved.

The CSA has a tendency to want a piece of everything. As much in the case the CSA wouldn't have allowed MLS in unless it got a piece of the action. Developing a national league would've seen the CSA left on the outside looking in.

quote:Originally posted by argh1

Apples and oranges in a lot of ways I know. But Baseball Canada had it's highest number of Canadians ever drafted (38? I believe) by MLB in the 2006 draft and well Hockey Canada we all know. So why can't CSA with it's numbers get our junior and midget age players following a similar development programme? A good junior and midget age competition along with Canadians being treated equally in MLS will push our players development along. Senior age competition would surely follow into the regions.........

Sorry, turned into a rant, again

[]

The MLB draft is 50 rounds so the numbers dwarf what you would see in the NBA (2 rounds) or the NHL (approx. 9 rounds). Out of those Canadians, one or two may have what it takes to eventually go onto an MLB team.

[DoyleG]

quote:Originally posted by Richard

With the MLS and USL as they are currently, any new Canadian domestic league would be second division at best - a development league for USLD1 and MLS - unless a huge amount of money was poured into the Canadian league and kept coming. Look how much money has been invested in the MLS and even they still cannot break even after 10 years of operation. The CPSL/CSL has been trying to re-create a Canadian domestic league for years and look how far they have got, or more correctly haven't. Stop your starry eyed dreaming guys and get real.

Your post shows your the one that's dreaming. To think that the CPSL is trying to make a national league is an insult.

[RS]

quote:Originally posted by DoyleG

It has to with more that Hockey Canada and Baseball Canada leave the development at the youth level to their PA's and the leagues that are run by them. Only when it comes to national championships or national teams do they really get involved.

The CSA has a tendency to want a piece of everything. As much in the case the CSA wouldn't have allowed MLS in unless it got a piece of the action. Developing a national league would've seen the CSA left on the outside looking in.

The provincial associations are the ones who want a piece of everything.

Outside of the stadium (which was funded by the governments for the WYC), the CSA has no 'piece of the action' when it comes to MLS.

[Moosehead]

Canada sucks. I am moving to Australia.

[Winnipeg Fury]

quote:Originally posted by sj

CSA mainly in the last 20 odd yrs has always rely on some other organisation to do their job for them.

What they dont understand is that our problems are challenges are different from most other countries and that it take a Canadian solutions and in some cases we will have to innovate and that is where the CSA have fail to deliver.

we need radical changes and ideas from our CEO and Directors

what we are hearing from them are the problems we face instead of the solutions and radical actions to catch up before we fall further behind to the point of no return.

This is exactly what I am talking about. Our problems are systemic. There is no leadership or accountability. We need an innovative made-in-canada solution. It's got nothing to do with hiring this coach, that coach, or TO getting into MLS. It's just another band-aid solution.

[dbailey62]

quote:Originally posted by Rudi

One MLS team would not be able to do that much, but three would stand a much better chance.

As romantic as a pan-Canadian league sounds, I just ain't gonna happen (at least not in the next 20 years), so the best we could hope for is three MLS clubs plus hopefully 4-5 USL D1 teams in places like Calgary, Edmonton, Hamilton, Ottawa, etc.

Agreed Rudi. So many believe in the benefits of a true CSL but economically it has never been anything but a sinkhole whether it be the original CSL, the original CPSL, or the old ECPSL.

Of course, the NASL was no better in that regard, it has to be said but at the same time, it had an impact and a World Cup was the result. Unless we strive to be at that level once again, we might as well not even enter a team in qualifying.

db

[Chet]

I don't care whether it's MLS, USL or Canadian domestic league. The only way the game is going to grow in Canada is to get fans out watching the games. Despite the lack of any clear consistent vision from the CSA, we now have three soccer-specific stadiums in various stages of planning/construction and two strong teams that appear to be growing year-by-year. That's not bad.

Let's start by building strong clubs. When there are enough teams and a strong fan base, then we can talk about organizing them into a league. The approach that was tried and failed before involved creating the league first and then creating the teams to fill it. Such teams seldom survive, and when the teams start folding, the league inevitably goes with it.

Here's what I think the CSA should be doing.

1. Leave the four existing professional teams alone. Let the owners decide what's best for their clubs. But make a sincere declaration of support for all of the teams, not just Toronto FC. Use the CSA's resources to help publicize the teams and their players. Look for opportunities to cross-promote the national team and the professional teams.

2. Instead of creating a national league, start with a national championship. There is no reason the Voyageurs Cup could not continue to be the national professional championship trophy. All it would take would be to organize some games between Toronto FC and each of the USL teams. If MLSE could be persuaded to participate, then organizing the actual matches would be easy. The tournament would be great promotion for both TFC and the USL clubs and would be a great showcase for Canadian pro soccer.

3. Encourage each of the professional teams and each of the strongest amateur/semi-pro teams to create or expand their development programs. The Whitecaps and Impact are already doing this. The CSA should have made a development program one of the conditions of their support for Toronto FC. But it's not too late. Toronto FC should be strongly lobbied to create a system of youth development teams to go along with their MLS team. Convince them that a developmental/feeder system is essential to the long-term success of any pro soccer team.

4. Establish rules and a fee structure for transfers within North America. If, for example, Toronto FC signs a player who has been playing in the C(P)SL, the C(P)SL team is rewarded for helping to develop that player.