New Canadian League Thread...

[Robert]

[Robert]

quote:Originally posted by G-Man

Australia is surrounded by water. It has to have it's own league and there is no one willing to play with them. Canada does not have that problem. We have 300 million people living to the south of us.

The NHL works north/south. Rail is most profitable North/South compared to the east/west Canada routes. But somehow a east-west all Canadain pro soccer league will work.

Past the crackpipe. When I fantasize I usaully think about blonde twins and not about Red Deer Town winning the Alberta Division of the Pan Canada Round Ball League..

In that case, f the 49th parallel, lets give eastern Canada to the States in exchange for letting the western States join Canada.

[Richard]

quote:Originally posted by Robert

Would the PCSL be interested in having their league champion competing against other Candian regional league champions? What would it take to measure the competitive strength of PCSL with other Canadian regional league champions?

Come to the next AGM and ask the clubs directly. I suspect there will be two immediate questions:

1. How will this be fitted in to the already very tight PCSL season?

2. Who will pay the costs involved?

If you don't have ready answers to at least those questions don't bother.

[Richard]

quote:Originally posted by Robert

Only if the PCSL will give us their schedule. According to your website, the countdown shows only 40 more days till your season opens. It has been featured for a number of weeks now, so obviously those in charge already know the schedule. Why are we being kept in the dark[?] For one who frequently stresses the importance of sound marketing of leagues, I would have figured you'd lead by example. From Ted's previously self deleted post, it appeared their were still some unhappy squabblings going on at the PCSL's headquarters. Have you guys straightend it out yet[?] What kind of marketing techniques is the PCSL currently employing to promote the upcoming season[?] You did emphasize that you are doing something every day, so please share some insight on the day to day running of the PCSL.

Robert, how will you life change if you have the PCSL schedule now instead of in a week's time? The clubs have all had their schedules for a while now and are making their own minor adjustments as usual. Once the schedule has settled down enough so the website version doesn't need to be changed every second day it will be published.

[Richard]

quote:Originally posted by Robert

I found "40 days until the '05 season opens on April 30" and

"The 2005 schedule will be published as soon as it is released." If I am missing something please indicate where I can find the 2005 schedule?

What's with this aggressive approach Robert? Take it easy or you will have a heart attack.

[Moosehead]

well, i would rather watch a soccer game involving Red Deer Town or Edmonton and not some unknown city in the USA. The NHL is another matter as it is a top class league but ya I personally would also like to see a Canadian Hockey League. Having a national Canadian League would also help reduce travel costs. I am not sure the natural thing is a cross border soccer league particulary when the USL has a team from Puerto Rico in it.

quote:Originally posted by G-Man

Australia is surrounded by water. It has to have it's own league and there is no one willing to play with them. Canada does not have that problem. We have 300 million people living to the south of us.

The NHL works north/south. Rail is most profitable North/South compared to the east/west Canada routes. But somehow a east-west all Canadain pro soccer league will work.

Past the crackpipe. When I fantasize I usaully think about blonde twins and not about Red Deer Town winning the Alberta Division of the Pan Canada Round Ball League..

[wfp]

To quote Robert...

"The Island soccer scene definately deserves more than the 3 inches of stat column Chris devoted to it in issue 51. Maybe [WFP] could focus a little more on provincial news. The coverage of the U20 was very brief and piss poor. It offered nothing we didn't already know two weeks earlier. Obviously, the Sharpe connection doesn't have a lot to offer. However, it is nice to read that Chris is making enough money to buy a dish. Two things I did very much enjoy were the Just Do It picture featuring Kevan Pipe's car at the NOODDI NOODDI and Mike Traficante's honest opinion of how useless our CSA really is."

To reply...

Absolutely, Island soccer deserves far more coverage than it regularly gets, as does most areas of our game but what you need to remember Robert, is that WFP has no paid investigative journalists. We are in large part still just a forum for the clubs, leagues and associations that which to promote themselves. I can't beat the news out of people. If they choose not to contribute there's !@#$ all I can do about that. Ted's article was a rare treat that I wish we had more of. Not even LISA contributes anymore as politics now precedes open communication. We always rely on good people to circumvent the crap that seethes in the underbelly of BC and Canadian football but they are few and far between.

Though I always wish we had more in depth Provincial coverage, we cannot print what we cannot find or cannot squeeze out of people unwilling to talk. You've searched the web for news and you know very well how frustrating all is. Still, in one issue we'll still cover more news than your champion Province and Sun will print in 30 issues. We even printed u20 pictures that not even the CSA had.

I am currently propositioning the CSA to begin quantifiable input and support to help us build more informative coverage, but that moves at the pace of Pipe's imagination!

You never read that I'm making more money. I'm losing money every issue for Christ's sake, partly because the corporate community is still moot on support, and partly because fans like yourself who should be supporting our efforts to grow everyone's game actually spend more time bitching about what we can't afford to cover instead of refocusing that angst into quantifiable support. Point being, WFP will never be what you want it to be until you help rather than hinder our efforts.

Of course, you did pick up #51 and I thank you for that but consider this... not even this oh so canadian forum will provide WFP a link up front yet it supports GoBigElaine's women's !@#$fest. I'm at a loss.

Speaking of, it just so happens that one can hook up StarChoice for less money than one can get Shaw cable, so I actually saved money switching.

Glad you enjoyed the Pipe witty though.

[wfp]

Sorry the above post is out of sync with the thread's subject matter at that point, regarding leagues. Should have posted when Robert first ranted about WFP. Behind schedule...always!

Regardless, Robert mentions timeliness (a two week delay) as a source of frustration. True, two weeks is sometimes reduntant if you've read everything online. But the webheads like Robert often forget that as abundant and wonderful as the online experience is, most orchestrators of our game, top to bottom, and even more fans, don't spend nearly the kind of time Robert does on his computer. Frankly, many don't want to. I don't want to, which is why I build a paper not a website magazine.

For those who prefer sexy, tactlie print, two weeks isn't such a big deal for most items if treated as a review. As little as we do!!!, we often provide far more entertaining reviews and previews on a monthly basis than the major dailies provide day by day.

I do wish we could cover more, and more indepth as Robert rightly laments, and one day we just may, but webheads still won't be happy. Robert wants it in an hour. He wants it online, easy, cut and paste. WFP nor anything other than a major daily will not keep Robert happy. So we just need to accept that.

I don't bitch about the web's frantic timeline and general apathy toward the sanctity of the written word and the image. Nothing is sacred online. Nothing is permanent. We all except that. It's the new communication paradigm. Now sure, nothing on paper is permanant either but a single page of WFP could last 500 years, and that, like all printed matter, lends it a life Robert's webworld cannot surplant. I can also read WFP on the skytrain, at the game, I can refer to it in a second, and not the time it takes to fire up the computer and Explorer and browse a site or two. I can share it with 5 guys looking over my shoulder, not crowding a monitor. I don't need a power source to check the local standings and the Champions league for this past weekend.

Now considering WFP is mostly original, and even the newswire material is often dressed up, we do a pretty good job of what we do, for those who like print. We cannot however compete with the web in regards to timeliness of major stories. We're not even trying to. So please, Robert et al, please don't expect such. Enjoy your bits and bytes for all their worth but please don't slag WFP or any other publication because it can't meet such speedy demands. There are other reasons to pick up WFP... please enjoy those.

[Robert]

quote:Originally posted by wfp

Sorry the above post is out of sync with the thread's subject matter at that point, regarding leagues. Should have posted when Robert first ranted about WFP. Behind schedule...always!

Regardless, Robert mentions timeliness (a two week delay) as a source of frustration. True, two weeks is sometimes reduntant if you've read everything online. But the webheads like Robert often forget that as abundant and wonderful as the online experience is, most orchestrators of our game, top to bottom, and even more fans, don't spend nearly the kind of time Robert does on his computer. Frankly, many don't want to. I don't want to, which is why I build a paper not a website magazine.

For those who prefer sexy, tactlie print, two weeks isn't such a big deal for most items if treated as a review. As little as we do!!!, we often provide far more entertaining reviews and previews on a monthly basis than the major dailies provide day by day.

I do wish we could cover more, and more indepth as Robert rightly laments, and one day we just may, but webheads still won't be happy. Robert wants it in an hour. He wants it online, easy, cut and paste. WFP nor anything other than a major daily will not keep Robert happy. So we just need to accept that.

I don't bitch about the web's frantic timeline and general apathy toward the sanctity of the written word and the image. Nothing is sacred online. Nothing is permanent. We all except that. It's the new communication paradigm. Now sure, nothing on paper is permanant either but a single page of WFP could last 500 years, and that, like all printed matter, lends it a life Robert's webworld cannot surplant. I can also read WFP on the skytrain, at the game, I can refer to it in a second, and not the time it takes to fire up the computer and Explorer and browse a site or two. I can share it with 5 guys looking over my shoulder, not crowding a monitor. I don't need a power source to check the local standings and the Champions league for this past weekend.

Now considering WFP is mostly original, and even the newswire material is often dressed up, we do a pretty good job of what we do, for those who like print. We cannot however compete with the web in regards to timeliness of major stories. We're not even trying to. So please, Robert et al, please don't expect such. Enjoy your bits and bytes for all their worth but please don't slag WFP or any other publication because it can't meet such speedy demands. There are other reasons to pick up WFP... please enjoy those.

If I still remember, I'll respond in two weeks time.

[Robert]

quote:Originally posted by Richard

Come to the next AGM and ask the clubs directly. I suspect there will be two immediate questions:

1. How will this be fitted in to the already very tight PCSL season?

2. Who will pay the costs involved?

If you don't have ready answers to at least those questions don't bother.

1) If you'd provide us with details of the already tight PCSL season, I might be able to answer the first question.

2) The one who incurs the costs (travel, accomodation and prise monies) should be the one who collects the revenue (gate receipts, sponsorship income and television rights).

[Robert]

quote:Originally posted by wfp

You never read that I'm making more money. I'm losing money every issue for Christ's sake, partly because the corporate community is still moot on support, and partly because fans like yourself who should be supporting our efforts to grow everyone's game actually spend more time bitching about what we can't afford to cover instead of refocusing that angst into quantifiable support.

Sorry, but this can't wait two weeks. How do you stay in business when you have lost money 52 consecutive issues. Losing money for 3 years (WFP #1 was lanched May 3rd, 2002), while staying at home full time to publish WFP, and watching countless hours of satellite soccer broadcasts in addition to keeping track of how much time I spend on the net. Amazing. How do you pay rent and eat? Please tell us your secret?

[River City]

This is degenarating like a Monty Python sketch...

Please put your differences aside for while anyway and look at the following scenario.

2005

Voyageurs Cup is awarded to the winner of an 8 team tourney, which will be considered by the CSA as the Canadian Champion and gets to represent us at the next CONCACAF tournament.

WHEN:The tourney will be held after the current CSA nationals or in conjucntion.

WHO:The teams invited would be as follows; the 3 USL teams, the PCSL champ, one team from the prairies (champions of Alberta, Sask, Manitoba to figure it out), CPSL champ, Quebec champ, one team from the Maritimes. Any teams declining to attend to be replaced by 1) another team from prairies, 2) another team from maritimes

HOW:Two groups of 4 with 12 group stage games plus 2 semifinals, 3rd place and final. Total of 16 games.

WHERE:If Edmonton, could have group games and semis at Foote and the last two games at Commonwealth

MONEY: All teams paying own way to get to tourney (it shouldn't be that difficult considering crappy teams go off on tourneys all the time). Tourney organized by LOC (local org committee)All costs to be covered from revenue. Any extra rev to be awarded to winner.

WHAT IS NEEDED:

1) Voyageur support

2) Lobby CSA to sanction tourney without demanding its pound of flesh

3) Settle date and location - Voyageurs in each city to provide details of what's available

4) Setup LOC

5) Invite teams

I think this is feasible and needs to be done. The leagues represented would get more attention and prestige and I think this would serve as an incentive for the leagues to improve their relationships and the Clubs to step it up a notch. Any future regional or pan-canadian leagues would grow from the increased contact between regional leagues.

[ted]

quote:Originally posted by River City

This is degenarating like a Monty Python sketch...

Please put your differences aside for while anyway and look at the following scenario.

2005

Voyageurs Cup is awarded to the winner of an 8 team tourney, which will be considered by the CSA as the Canadian Champion and gets to represent us at the next CONCACAF tournament.

WHEN:The tourney will be held after the current CSA nationals or in conjucntion.

WHO:The teams invited would be as follows; the 3 USL teams, the PCSL champ,

(large snip)

Whooah nelly! Stop! Cease and desist before we keep going in circles forever.

August is basically off limits for the PCSL due to US college commitments of large numbers of our players. This is also what creates the tight schedule issue that Robert and Richard are dancing around. The PCSL has no choice but to operate between the Provincial Cup Finals (mid May this year) and the beginning of August. Until and unless we can make it worth their while to stay in Canada and play the large numbers of players on US scholarships means we are limited by their inability to stay in BC past the end of July.

Thanks for including us but I see no realistic way for this to happen.

[youllneverwalkalone]

quote:Originally posted by Richard

A guy like Greg Kerfoot, if he is motivated to sponsor a domestic league, needs to see a business plan that he is convinced will work before he spends a dime. Clearly nobody has been able to present one yet.

The CFL has already made a small time nationwide league work pretty well in recent history. I don't see how a similar CSL could exist in direct competition. On the revenue side, there's potentially some TV and sponsorship money to be had as soccer could be a growth industry in Canada, but the problem is the commitment to new start-up/fixed costs. You need a strong gate to hope to break-even if you need to sign your own stadium lease, hire your admin staff, and commit to a marketing budget. The CFL clubs have already leveraged themselves to these costs. If they expanded the scope of their operations to include soccer (a la Barca with BB), any marginal revenue from increased attendance and concessions, and eventual TV and sponsorship would go straight to the bottom line.

It's far from ideal, as I hate field turf and football lines as much as the next guy, but here's a rough overview: each football team would field a soccer team to play double-headers that are free with your football tickets, thereby playing an 18 game copy-cat schedule. Much like myself, the players will be young and underpaid, perhaps with a mimimum salary supplied by the CSA as part of a revenue sharing agreement.

What the CFL gets:

1) meets the object of getting people to the game earlier (think tailgate party with higher beer margins).

2) low risk venture with high potential pay-off if synergies are found

3) access to new sponsors and new fans

I really hope Kerfoot goes MLS and builds a soccer only stadium here. Still, how about a Whitecaps/Lions derby?

[River City]

quote:Originally posted by ted

Considering that

1) You need to finish the season by August

2) The CSA Challenge Cup isn't until Oct 5/10 in Calgary

would a select team from the PCSL be feasible?

[G-Man]

Red Deer- G-man has announced that due to the demand of several posters a special professional pan Canadian soccer league has been founded in his basement. The CPSNL- Canadian Professional National Subbuteo League will commence play in June. Applications for franchises are being accepted. Please include you the name of the town and the teams nickname within this thread. The first year will be limited to 16 teams. He also announced that all games will be played by his three sons. Stats and Standings will be posted on the Internet.

G-man also announced that he was the owner of “Red Deer Town” and had signed his first player “Trevor Francis”.

The league is currently negotiating an Internet radio deal with an unnamed service provider.

For more information about subbuteo please go to: http://www.subbuteo365.com

check out the stadium pics-

[Robert]

quote:Originally posted by ted

Whooah nelly! Stop! Cease and desist before we keep going in circles forever.

August is basically off limits for the PCSL due to US college commitments of large numbers of our players. This is also what creates the tight schedule issue that Robert and Richard are dancing around. The PCSL has no choice but to operate between the Provincial Cup Finals (mid May this year) and the beginning of August. Until and unless we can make it worth their while to stay in Canada and play the large numbers of players on US scholarships means we are limited by their inability to stay in BC past the end of July.

Thanks for including us but I see no realistic way for this to happen.

God, help me find the willingness of the Canadian soccer community that will be needed for our sport to grow domesticly. Ted, if there is no willingness on behalf of the PCSL to expand its horizons, we will never have more than we do now. The PCSL will have its annual champions, which will basically not be recognized outside of the PCSL's own community, as is the case for the CPSL and any other regional league in Canada. The CPSL champions are as unknown in BC as Victoria United is in Ontario.

It's the same senario in Europe, where the Champions League is superior in every respect in comparision to all of Europe's domestic leagues. The strongest domestic teams makes so much more money through their participation in the Champions league, that they are in a position to sign the best talent in their countries from the lesser clubs. Thus higher income soccer positions are created in each country because these clubs want to continue to compete in the Champions League. TV contracts are higher for Champions League games, as is advertising revenue, ect.

Granted that currently the PCSL's schedule is very tight, however we are talking about only the U.S. college based players of one team, the ones that play for the PCSL champions. Suppose, Victoria United got lucky this year and happened to win the PCSL (again:)), and if there were an additional two matches that would be required to be played by Victoria United, in a nationally recognized competition that which would earn the prize of playing a pair of matches in the CONCACAF Champions League against Mexico City's Pumas, don't you think that the five or six U.S. college based players on the Victoria United team could make the sacrafice of coming to Canada for a weekend or two after the regular season?

All that is required right now is a willingness to examine the possibilities of trying to make something like this happen. I would think that you would be interested in participating in this forum for this goal? We need only start with baby steps. Just a set of matches between a PCSL team and an AMSL team would be a start to something bigger. With limited means, even I would be interested in make a small investment into a venture of this nature. If there was a guaranteed commitment on behalf of both leagues to partake in such an event, I would even be inclined to volunteer my time in any capacity to generate revenue for a Western Championship of this nature. One man alone can not pull this off. There needs to be a willingness by the entire soccer community to work together if soccer is ever to grow from the very humble place it finds itself today.

[Richard]

quote:Originally posted by Robert

1) If you'd provide us with details of the already tight PCSL season, I might be able to answer the first question.

2) The one who incurs the costs (travel, accomodation and prise monies) should be the one who collects the revenue (gate receipts, sponsorship income and television rights).

There is no national cup championship this year so the 2005 schedule is not necessary for you to answer the question in principle. The PCSL schedule is not going to get any less tight.

What gate receipts, sponsorship income and TV rights are you talking about? Unless you have some provisional arrangements in place with some kind of forecast revenues there is nothing to discuss. You ever heard of the expression, "Show me the money"?

Without that you'll get nowhere. We're not talking some youth team looking to play in an out of town tournament where the parents pick up the tab.

[River City]

quote:Originally posted by Richard

There is no national cup championship this year so the 2005 schedule is not necessary for you to answer the question in principle. The PCSL schedule is not going to get any less tight.

What gate receipts, sponsorship income and TV rights are you talking about? Unless you have some provisional arrangements in place with some kind of forecast revenues there is nothing to discuss. You ever heard of the expression, "Show me the money"?

Without that you'll get nowhere. We're not talking some youth team looking to play in an out of town tournament where the parents pick up the tab.

Were you a founding member of the PCSL? I'm curious as to what your take is on why the league got started, because as per your comments above, it looks like nothing would ever get off the ground if it were up to you.

Please tell me how you line up sponsors for a first time event before you even have teams competing. Most people would getthe teams first and then go after sponsors. I don't think it's just me.

As for travel costs, I'm sure Victoria United travelled to Seatlle once or twice before, so I don't see how travelling to Calgary would force them to take out a million dollar loan at the bank. Sure it would be more expensive, but considering the experience they would gain by playing for the national cup, I think most Clubs would be willing to do it.

[Michael Crampton]

quote:Originally posted by G-Man

Red Deer- G-man has announced that due to the demand of several posters a special professional pan Canadian soccer league has been founded in his basement. The CPSNL- Canadian Professional National Subbuteo League will commence play in June. Applications for franchises are being accepted. Please include you the name of the town and the teams nickname within this thread. The first year will be limited to 16 teams. He also announced that all games will be played by his three sons. Stats and Standings will be posted on the Internet.

G-man also announced that he was the owner of “Red Deer Town” and had signed his first player “Trevor Francis”.

The league is currently negotiating an Internet radio deal with an unnamed service provider.

For more information about subbuteo please go to: http://www.subbuteo365.com

check out the stadium pics-

Sign me up! "Burloak United SFC" will be happy to participate in the inagural season of the CPSNL. Furthermore, owner Michael Crampton is excited to announce that United has entered negotiations with former Canadian international "Alex Bunbury." Bunbury still enjoys a high level of name recognition in the Golden Horseshoe region due to his time spent with the Hamilton Steelers of the CSL and it is expected that he will be the flagship player of the Halton region based club.

If I could find a subbuteo team and paint it up would your sons be willing to use them whenever BU "plays?" I'd have to mail it out to you of course.

As an aside, I used to run great fantasy leagues on FIFA back when they had full edit team functions. All my friends had a team with their name general based on street names or neighborhood. I just used the simulate function for most games while one game a round was the feature "TV Match" that I let the computer actually play out. It got so big that I had to have multiple memory cards with each division on a seperate memory card. This really makes me want to pull out my old PS1 and get that started again.

Mike.

[River City]

Ha, ha.

OK guys, can we leave this thread for discussions of an outdoor soccer league and the requirements to get it started?

BTW, CPSNL should be Canadian Professional Subbuteo National League and not Canadian Professional National Subbuteo League as you have it.

[Michael Crampton]

River City's idea of an end of season "National Championship Tournament" is one of the better ones that I've read. This was a format used in many larger European countries (Germany most notably) until the infrastructure and will was there to have a national league.

As regards the money question this really is the role that the CSA should be playing. Seeding the tournament with money until it becomes financially viable falls under their purview of growing the domestic game. Furthermore, they should/could be using their clout (as it is) to line up sponsorship even if all that means is discount flights and accomidation. That way any gate receipts could be used as prize purse divided along established guidelines. Ultimately the tournament could be a money earner for the CSA but sometimes you have to spend money to make money.

Richard or Ted: If the CSA could organize money such that at least the travel costs of participating teams could be covered would PCSL teams take an interest in participating? I understand the situation with university students but remember that we are only talking about 1 team need to reassemble its squad sometime in (likely) October for what at most would be a 1 week tournament. What percentage of Victoria United's players play for college sides? Could suitable replacements be found? Would working players be able to get a week (or two) off work?

Obviously there are a lot of questions that would need answering but this is a reasonable proposal that should be investigated.

Mike.

[ted]

quote:Originally posted by Robert

God, help me find the willingness of the Canadian soccer community that will be needed for our sport to grow domesticly. Ted, if there is no willingness on behalf of the PCSL to expand its horizons, we will never have more than we do now.

Hmmm, cart before horse here I think Robert.

I was responding to a specific scenario taking place this year, 2005, with what we have available right now, today.

I know Victoria United would be very interested in competing in a tourney such as is being proposed provided two things happen, 1) someone pays for it, and 2) we can field a competitive team. I think the league would have a similar reaction.

US college players affects more than just Victoria. Several teams on both the men's and women's side found it difficult (and in more than one case impossible) to field a competitve team in August due to college commitments. And October is right out of the question as no PCSL team (except perhaps Surrey) exists outside of the PCSL season as far as I know. The Canadian college players return to school later in August and the rest of the players return to their local sides.

Fielding a PCSL selects side in a competitive tourney would be pointless as it would do nothing to showcase the teams (which is what builds fan interest) and would have to leave off some of the best players in the league. These college kids are not just filler or bench warmers. We are talking about Josh Simpsons.

As with all that we discuss here, it is NOT about finding teams or players. It IS about finding the money to put it together. SHOW ME THE MONEY and we will be able to make this happen. Hmmmmmmm. . . sounds like where we started this discussion before Christmas...[8D]

Now there may be some steps we can take towards what you and I dream of but a national championship tournament THIS YEAR is not a realistic step. Building a fantasy plan for a national league while MLS looms on the horizon is not a realistic step.

Please, somebody, make this thread die! [xx(] Oh right, I keep posting to it. My bad. [:I]

[Robert]

quote:Originally posted by Richard

You ever heard of the expression, "Show me the money"?

Without that you'll get nowhere. We're not talking some youth team looking to play in an out of town tournament where the parents pick up the tab.

You ever heard of the expression, "It takes money to make money"? It is obvious you league has none, as your limited capacity reflects. Furthermore, your unprofessional rudeness does little to solicit potential investment in your product. With each of your passing posts, I develop a clearer appreciation of Ted's frustrations

[River City]

Ted,

the 2006 CSA Challenge Cup will be held in British Columbia (city not selected yet). If planning were to start right away for doing a CSA sanctioned, Voyageur Cup tourney with the winner going to represent Canada at the Concacaf level, would the PCSL get on board?

The PCSL would get one automatic entry. If you were to automatically give that to your champion or field the best 20 players would be entirely up to you. Your sticking points are;

1) money

2) timing

1) If we can get your provisional commitment, then we can get the same from the other teams/leagues. Once we have 8 commitments, then we approach the CSA and then sponsors. I personally think each team should be responsible for their own expenses, especially the CPSL entry considering it will be in BC. But if as you prefer, all costs are to be covered, then I don't think any prize money should be given out.

2) As for the timing, it depends on when all the other leagues finish up.

The AMSL finishes in August (Aug 25 in 2004)

The A-League finishes in September (Sept 18 in 2004)

The CPSL finishes in October (Oct 11 in 2004)

I still think we should do it around the time of the CSA championship (Canadian Thanksgiving).

The other option is to have a draw with 8 committed teams (3 A-League teams and the 5 champions from the regional leagues from 2005) be drawn to play each other in a one game, knockout format. For example,

FIRST ROUND (winners advance to next round):

PCSL vs Toronto Lynx

AMSL vs Montreal Impact

Vancouver Whitecaps vs Maritimes

PCSL vs Quebec

Each of these games would have to be played by a certain point in the year or on Victoria Day, so that the second round could be on Canada Day and the third round could be played on the Ciic Holiday.

Your thoughts...