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New Canadian League Thread...


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Guest HamiltonSteelers

Interesting concept. I've always regarded Canadian soccer product as an industry but never called it such.

Here are some random thoughts in no particular order:

Could a league-wide business model be built on the backs of transfer fees or as part of the burden? All transfer fees collected, the club gets half and the other half is split evenly with the rest of the clubs and league? (I'm getting ahead of myself... I know)

What is right with the current system? Is there anything salvagable? Are there streams that are not allowing players to come to the forefront due to geographical/political reasons? Facilities?

Does any particular province have a unique approach to the structure of the game that is successful and could be implimented on a national scale? One with the least amount of bureaocracy and could that work in Ontario (which seems to have the most.. to the point of overkill)?

I do agree that every province should have a top amateur regional league. That was an excellent idea.

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quote:Originally posted by ted

1) Develop players capabale of qualifying for the world cup.

2) Being able to watch a local pro team in a national league.

These are interconnected goals and are still achievable. I may see the route differently than you or Mike but I still hope to get there in my lifetime.

I am sorry if my goals, effort and dedication are not enough for you, but really that is not my problem. :)

Ted,

Don't presume that we're all that different. I would switch the order of your two objectives but otherwise we're exactly the same. Likewise, I totally agree with Richard that the way to go forward is financially sustainable regional semi-pro leagues before evening thinking about launching any national league. My frustration stems from the lack of organizing capacity or will exhibited by the CSA in extablishing this in a unified manner. Their hands-off approach is achieving far less than should be expected in a nation as wealthy as Canada.

As the discussion over a national championship series or DJT's open cup comment has shown what is really needed is a unified Canadian soccer schedule that allows room for inter-region competition in the month of October. If the PCSL is forced to play second fiddle to the Vancouver Metro League and that's retarding the development of professional soccer in Canada then it's the job of the CSA to fix the situation. MLS didn't come into being just because of Hunt and Anschutz money; it came into being because Rothenburg was willing to piss-off all the old powers that be to get it done! As the saying goes: to make an omlette you have to break some eggs.

Mike.

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quote:Originally posted by BHTC Mike

MLS didn't come into being just because of Hunt and Anschutz money;

No argument there, but MLS would have gone nowhere without it.

I have little doubt if a Canadian version of Hunt and Anschutz were to step forward, CSA would move ahead with a Canadian version of MLS or something similar.

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quote:Originally posted by River City

Based on the SWOT analysis done earlier and taking into account all of the discussion since, I have finally put (almost) everything together and am pasting it below.

Please remember that before PHASE FOUR occurs, PHASE THREE has to work and the clubs have to be ready to make the jump, otherwise, the whole thing will die.

STRENGTHS:

1) Good organizational infrastructure across Canada ie. provincial and local associations

2) Talent base

3) Strong existing Clubs that are ambitious

4) First world economy, capitalist society

5) Strong sports coverage across Canada (media)

6) Strong University league in place(amateur league for draft purposes)

7) Proliferation and acceptance of field turf, season extension.

8) Visibility of Global leagues strengthen case for TV deal

WEAKNESSES:

1) Weak national association

2) Weak public (media) image of sport

3) No identifiable Owners with deep pockets for a full fledged national league

4) Weak track record of paid attendance

5) Lack of identifiable and inexpensive facilities

6) Lack of identifiable revenue streams for Clubs

7) Short season

8) Part-time players have limited availability due to 'real work' commitments

9) Volunteer Management may not be capable or have required skills

OPPORTUNITIES:

1) Creation of strong regional leagues to serve as second division is feasible and will provided the immediate base for any future 'National League'

2) 2007 will provide buzz, but action needs to be taken (if MLS had waited a year to launch it would have lost any momentum the WC 94 provided)

3) league could obtain marketing databses through soccer schools and combined efforts with local associations

4) Get markting mentorship from NHL. NHL offseason = Soccer season. If Yankees and Man U can be partners....

5) Import of reserve talent from other leagues

6) Corporate involvement in league through ownership packages as well as exclusive sponsorships to each of the 10-14 teams. Each team would have one corporate logo on their jersey and other merch, every stadium would have field level signage exclusively from the 10-14 sponsors (so they could be seen on TV, newspapers etc.), logos at official league events, and on national broadcasts (this game has been brought to you by...). They could be sold with 5 year terms at $500,000 a piece ($100,000 per year) like stadium naming rights. $5 million in revenue right there.

7) Creation of official Voyageurs/Local Organizing Committees/Ultra groups to get involved locally, lobby businesses and media and help sell tickets. Possible incentive - Sell 10 tickets and get one free

8) Each team to have territorial rights so that they may market their teams as they wish, tailoring it to the local conditions and not concerning themselves with other teams

9) Adidas, Nike, Puma, etc might be interested if a watertight business plan and stability are offered

10) Linkage with Foreign Clubs to nurture talent, sponsorship and mentorship

11) Linkage with existing A-League Clubs as it wold provide them with better control of talent development

THREATS:

1) Existing associations may not be keen to support any new ventures as they prefer to extend their own influence and power

2) No guarantee of a TV deal or positive media coverage. How much coverage did the Aviators and Mustangs receive locally?

3) Startup costs will undoubtedly keep many groups at bay

4) Competition fom MLS, A-League, and Europe (keeping talent)

5) American influence on our infrastructure. Canadian League vs. MLS

6) Competition with CFL for entertainment dollar, TV deal

PRELIMINARY PLAN FOR THE RESHAPING OF CANADA'S SOCCER STRUCTURE

PHASE ONE - VOYAGEURS AWARDS

1 - The Voyageurs Cup

It will continue to be awarded to the overall winner of the USL matches between the three Canadian teams.

2 - The Voyageurs Ranking List

A ranking system will be setup to establish a statistical manner of comparing the various teams throughout Canada.

1)MLS - 0 Teams - W= 6pts, D= 3pts, L= -3pts

2)USL 1 - 3 Teams - W= 4pts, D= 2pts, L= -3pts

3)PCSL and CPSL - 20 Teams - W= 3pts, D= 1pt, L= -2pts

4)AMSL and CIAU - 10 Teams - W= 2pts, D= 1pt, L= -1pt

6)Other Provincial - W= 1.5pts, D= .5pt, L= -1pt

The points awarded for 2005 will decline by 20% each year so that by 2009, the point value gained every year will look like this;

Year Value

2009 5/5

2008 4/5

2007 3/5

2006 2/5

2005 1/5

3 - The Voyageurs Golden Shoe

To determine the best striker in all the land, the following point system will be used to compare all strikers.

1)MLS - 3pts

2)USL 1 - 2pts

3)PCSL and CPSL - 1.5pts

4)AMSL and CIAU - 1pt

6)Other Provincial - .5pt

PHASE TWO - A NATIONAL CUP IN 2006

OPTION 1

The Voyageurs Cup is awarded to the winner of an 8 team, CSA sanctioned tournament, with the winner going to represent Canada at the next CONCACAF tournament.

WHO:The teams invited would be as follows; the 3 USL teams, the PCSL champ, one team from the prairies (champions of Alberta, Sask, Manitoba to figure it out), CPSL champ, Quebec champ, one team from the Maritimes. Any teams declining to attend to be replaced by 1) another team from prairies, 2) another team from maritimes

FORMAT:

Two groups of 4 with 12 group stage games plus 2 semifinals, 3rd place and final. Total of 16 games.

WHEN/WHERE:

The tourney will be held in conjunction with the CSA nationals.

MONEY: All teams paying own way to get to tourney (it shouldn't be that difficult considering crappy teams go off on tourneys all the time). Tourney organized by LOC (local org committee)All costs to be covered from revenue. Any extra rev to be awarded to winner.

STEPS NEEDED:

1) Voyageur support

2) Lobby CSA to sanction tourney without demanding its pound of flesh

3) Settle format, date and location - Voyageurs in each city to provide details

4) Setup LOC

5) Invite teams

OPTION 2

FORMAT:

3 rounds of one game, knock-out competition for a total of 7 games.

WHEN/WHERE:

The rounds would be played on the Victoria Day weekend, Canada Day weekend and Civic Holiday Weekend at sites to be determined once the draw is held.

OPTION 3

To award the Voyageurs Cup to the winner of a Canada wide, single elimination open tournament. An entry deadline of December 31, 2005 with a sliding scale entry fee would be required and all preliminary round matches would be played at the municipal level, regional level, provincial level, interprovincial level, and finally national.

PHASE THREE - LINKING REGIONAL LEAGUES IN 2008

On the heels of the 2007 FIFA World Youth Championship, the following leagues would provide 4 teams each to play in new regional leagues, with a promotion/relegation system in place as long as all requirements are met.

WESTERN LEAGUE

PCSL, AMSL

PRAIRIE LEAGUE

Saskatchewan and Manitoba

CENTRAL LEAGUE

CPSL AND Soccer Quebec

MARITIMES

The 4 provinces would have to establish a regional league with two teams from each province.

PHASE FOUR - A NATIONAL LEAGUE

Once the viability of the Regional leagues has been established hopefully around 2010, an 8 team National league would be established, consisting of two conferences and playing from May until September. The Western and Eastern Conferences would have 4 teams each and could play 2 games against each team in other division (8 games) with 6 games aganst teams within their division (18 games) for a total number of 26 games.

Playoffs: Top two teams in each division play each other in a two game total series. Final at the home of the finalist with the better overall record.

Great input River City. Under phase one, for a Voyageurs Ranking I have updated the list to include the following:

Canadian Soccer Team Rankings (based on teams that competed in 2004)

01) Montreal Impact (USL – I)

02) Toronto Lynx (USL – I)

03) Vancouver Whitecaps (USL – I)

04) Fraser Valley Action (PCSL)

05) Khalsa Sporting Club (PCSL)

06) Kamloops City (PCSL)

07) Okanagan Challenge (PCSL)

08) Penticton Pinnacles (PCSL)

09) Surrey United (PCSL)

10) UBC (PCSL & CIS)

11) Victoria United (PCSL)

12) Whitecaps FC Reserves (PCSL)

13) Brampton (CPSL)

14) Durham Storm (CPSL)

15) Hamilton Thunder (CPSL)

16) Laval Dynamites (CPSL)

17) London City (CPSL)

18) North York Astros (CPSL)

19) Oakville Blue Devils (CPSL)

20) St. Catharines Roma Wolves (CPSL)

21) Toronto Croatia (CPSL)

22) Toronto Supra (CPSL)

23) Vaughan Shooters (CPSL)

24) Calgary Callies (AMSL)

25) Edmonton Scottish (AMSL)

26) Calgary Villains (AMSL)

27) Calgary Dinosaurs (AMSL)

28) Edmonton Green & Gold (AMSL)

29) Edmonton Ital-Canadians (AMSL)

30) Edmonton Victoria (AMSL)

31) Red Deer Renegades (AMSL)

32) Lethbridge Croatia (AMSL)

33) Saint Mary’s (CIS)

34) Memorial (CIS)

35) Dalhousie (CIS)

36) St. Francis X (CIS)

37) UPEI (CIS)

38) UNB (CIS)

39) Mount Allison (CIS)

40) UCCB (CIS)

41) Moncton (CIS)

42) Trinity Western (CIS)

43) Victoria (CIS)

44) Alberta (CIS)

45) Calgary (CIS)

46) Lethbridge (CIS)

47) Saskatchewan (CIS)

48) Carleton (CIS)

49) Queen’s (CIS)

50) RMC (CIS)

51) Trent (CIS)

52) Toronto (CIS)

53) Laurentian (CIS)

54) York (CIS)

55) Nipissing (CIS)

56) Brock (CIS)

57) Guelph (CIS)

58) McMaster (CIS)

59) Ryerson (CIS)

60) Western (CIS)

61) Laurier (CIS)

62) Windsor (CIS)

63) Waterloo (CIS)

64) Montreal (CIS)

65) Sherbrooke (CIS)

66) UQAM (CIS)

67) Laval (CIS)

68) McGill (CIS)

69) UQTR (CIS)

70) Concordia (CIS)

71) ETS (CIS)

72) Abbotsford Rangers (PDL)

73) Ottawa Fury (PDL)

74) Thunder Bay Chill

Please report any errors or feel free to suggest any possible additions to this list. Only teams competing in regional leagues will be included in these rankings. Hopefully all the league schedules will be available soon.

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quote:Originally posted by Robert

Great input River City. Under phase one, for a Voyageurs Ranking I have updated the list to include the following:

Canadian Soccer Team Rankings (based on teams that competed in 2004)

01) Montreal Impact (USL – I)

02) Toronto Lynx (USL – I)

03) Vancouver Whitecaps (USL – I)

04) Fraser Valley Action (PCSL)

05) Khalsa Sporting Club (PCSL)

06) Kamloops City (PCSL)

07) Okanagan Challenge (PCSL)

08) Penticton Pinnacles (PCSL)

09) Surrey United (PCSL)

10) UBC (PCSL & CIS)

11) Victoria United (PCSL)

12) Whitecaps FC Reserves (PCSL)

13) Brampton (CPSL)

14) Durham Storm (CPSL)

15) Hamilton Thunder (CPSL)

16) Laval Dynamites (CPSL)

17) London City (CPSL)

18) North York Astros (CPSL)

19) Oakville Blue Devils (CPSL)

20) St. Catharines Roma Wolves (CPSL)

21) Toronto Croatia (CPSL)

22) Toronto Supra (CPSL)

23) Vaughan Shooters (CPSL)

24) Calgary Callies (AMSL)

25) Edmonton Scottish (AMSL)

26) Calgary Villains (AMSL)

27) Calgary Dinosaurs (AMSL)

28) Edmonton Green & Gold (AMSL)

29) Edmonton Ital-Canadians (AMSL)

30) Edmonton Victoria (AMSL)

31) Red Deer Renegades (AMSL)

32) Lethbridge Croatia (AMSL)

33) Saint Mary’s (CIS)

34) Memorial (CIS)

35) Dalhousie (CIS)

36) St. Francis X (CIS)

37) UPEI (CIS)

38) UNB (CIS)

39) Mount Allison (CIS)

40) UCCB (CIS)

41) Moncton (CIS)

42) Trinity Western (CIS)

43) Victoria (CIS)

44) Alberta (CIS)

45) Calgary (CIS)

46) Lethbridge (CIS)

47) Saskatchewan (CIS)

48) Carleton (CIS)

49) Queen’s (CIS)

50) RMC (CIS)

51) Trent (CIS)

52) Toronto (CIS)

53) Laurentian (CIS)

54) York (CIS)

55) Nipissing (CIS)

56) Brock (CIS)

57) Guelph (CIS)

58) McMaster (CIS)

59) Ryerson (CIS)

60) Western (CIS)

61) Laurier (CIS)

62) Windsor (CIS)

63) Waterloo (CIS)

64) Montreal (CIS)

65) Sherbrooke (CIS)

66) UQAM (CIS)

67) Laval (CIS)

68) McGill (CIS)

69) UQTR (CIS)

70) Concordia (CIS)

71) ETS (CIS)

72) Abbotsford Rangers (PDL)

73) Ottawa Fury (PDL)

74) Thunder Bay Chill

Please report any errors or feel free to suggest any possible additions to this list. Only teams competing in regional leagues will be included in these rankings. Hopefully all the league schedules will be available soon.

Why is the AMSL the only senior league on that list ?

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quote:Originally posted by aussoccerfan

I'm not clear on your question. Please give me your definition and criteria of senior, intermediate and junior leagues. Do you feel that the AMSL teams do not belong on this list? If so, why not? Do you feel that other leagues may have been overlooked? If so, which ones?

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quote:Originally posted by aussoccerfan

Isn't the AMSL a senior league ?

Maybe one of our Alberta Voyageurs can help answer your querie? I do feel we should use the AMSL teams in a Canadian Club Ranking. The only criteria discussed so far is to use men's teams thet compete in regional leagues. The list thus far has over 70 teams from across Canada.

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Mention on TSN's "The Reporters" when they talked about the changing demogrpahics in Canada and if the coverage of sports should change with that. Mention that invement in soccer is still great but that there isn't a demand for that in the media.

Micheal Farber mentioning that changes have to be done with those in charge of deciding which sports get covered.

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quote:Originally posted by DoyleG

Mention on TSN's "The Reporters" when they talked about the changing demogrpahics in Canada and if the coverage of sports should change with that. Mention that invement in soccer is still great but that there isn't a demand for that in the media.

Micheal Farber mentioning that changes have to be done with those in charge of deciding which sports get covered.

Interesting that you brought up the issue of demographics during this particular phase of our discussions regarding the New Canadian League Thread. Others have also on more and more occasions voiced the need to replace many of those, who are currently running the affairs of Canadian soccer. I believe that the increased frustration and apathy suffered by growing numbers Canadian soccer fans, directly reflects the inept leadership that soccer has in Canada. Small time leaders that are unwilling to make the required changes that soccer needs in order to prosper in Canada, IMO is the number one reason for 100 years of unchanged status quo of soccer in Canada. We are still waiting for a leader with the vision and capacity to successfully unite all of the many seperate soccer communities in Canada. The leaders of these small soccer communities are mainly made up of self-seeking indivuals who are reluctant to work together with each other for the common goal of an improved state of soccer in Canada. They are basically comprised of men who have the organizational skills to establish small leagues as long as they are in total control. However, they will, and consequently so will Canada, remain small potatoes in their enterprises. They lack the capacity and willingness to work together with one and other in accomplishing something bigger, because this would require the surrend of their total control. The CSA administration, with Kevan Pipe at the helm, have shown through their incapacity to unify the soccer communities of Canada, that they are the leading offenders in this area. Currently they are supporting the project of acquiring an MLS team in Toronto at the expense of the rest of the Canadian soccer community. Untill we find a leader, who is not pre-occupied with reaping personal gains from the small time operations they control, soccer in Canada will remain unchanged. Untill we have democratically short-term elected officials to manage soccer in Canada, I don't foresee a change.

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You're right on there Robert. Sometimes that sentiment appears on this board...people are reluctant for change. That's why it's so exciting being in Vancouver right now. Mr Kerfoot told his employees...take everything you know about running a soccer team, and throw it out the window...we're starting over.

As for Gavin's post...I can tell you that the media in this country is Anti Soccer. Sportsnet in Particular (regional anyway) told the Whitecaps they didn't want their show. Last year, they buried the program (which was well produced) into time-slots that had no chance of getting ratings or viewership.

The CBC, TSN, Sportsnet and the SCORE were approached about doing a weekly A-League recap show, following the exploits of the 3 mens teams, and the women's club teams. (Hey Montreal was tops, Vancouver not so far behind, and the Whitecap women were champions) They all said "no!", even though they knew hockey wasn't going to be played.

And if it weren't for the hockey lockout, we'd NEVER be seeing as many European matches as we are.

Sadly, the network execs, despite the need for original Canadian programming, think North American soccer is boring. (Having seen some of the USL on Fox games last year, I'd have to agree...I saw a lot of stinkers even at Swangard.)

During the CSL days, the 86ers openly touted the fact they'd be playing an all out attacking style, saying we'll go for 4 goals a game, at the risk of allowing 2-3. The level of excitement during those first 3 seasons was far better than the Whitecaps today. So, could a new Canadian League actual mandate a system that would encourage scoring without resorting to silly rule changes? Our country's achillies heel has always been scoring goals...so is it possible to instigate a system by which the National Team and Club teams all play a similar formation to encourage attacking football?

Here's something else that I think coudl be huge in a future all-Canadian circuit...a gaming agreement. Getting the weekly games on a Sports Action menu may attract different customers to the park...and gaming as we all know, is BIG business.

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quote:Originally posted by Calgary Boomer

You're right on there Robert. Sometimes that sentiment appears on this board...people are reluctant for change. That's why it's so exciting being in Vancouver right now. Mr Kerfoot told his employees...take everything you know about running a soccer team, and throw it out the window...we're starting over.

As for Gavin's post...I can tell you that the media in this country is Anti Soccer. Sportsnet in Particular (regional anyway) told the Whitecaps they didn't want their show. Last year, they buried the program (which was well produced) into time-slots that had no chance of getting ratings or viewership.

The CBC, TSN, Sportsnet and the SCORE were approached about doing a weekly A-League recap show, following the exploits of the 3 mens teams, and the women's club teams. (Hey Montreal was tops, Vancouver not so far behind, and the Whitecap women were champions) They all said "no!", even though they knew hockey wasn't going to be played.

And if it weren't for the hockey lockout, we'd NEVER be seeing as many European matches as we are.

Sadly, the network execs, despite the need for original Canadian programming, think North American soccer is boring. (Having seen some of the USL on Fox games last year, I'd have to agree...I saw a lot of stinkers even at Swangard.)

During the CSL days, the 86ers openly touted the fact they'd be playing an all out attacking style, saying we'll go for 4 goals a game, at the risk of allowing 2-3. The level of excitement during those first 3 seasons was far better than the Whitecaps today. So, could a new Canadian League actual mandate a system that would encourage scoring without resorting to silly rule changes? Our country's achillies heel has always been scoring goals...so is it possible to instigate a system by which the National Team and Club teams all play a similar formation to encourage attacking football?

Here's something else that I think coudl be huge in a future all-Canadian circuit...a gaming agreement. Getting the weekly games on a Sports Action menu may attract different customers to the park...and gaming as we all know, is BIG business.

Thanks Boomer, I find it uplifting reading your positive posts. I agree that Mr. Kerfoot's involvement in our local soccer community has been the most refreshing addition to Canadian soccer in the last 20 years. I think that the Saputo family in Montreal has had a similar impact (no pun intended) on soccer in the East. If we could only get a few more long-term committed people like them, then a pro league may become feasable.

Yes, the media coverage of Canadian soccer has been nothing less than atrocious. Failing to televise every World Cup qualifier that Canada plays in is a sin. Failing to televise international friendlies against countries such as Portugal are equally frustrating and a lost opportunity for young Canadian soccer fans to see our Nats play against world class players. The soccer advertising dollars that are lost because of this stupidity reflects poorly on the broadcasters you mentioned. Every Canadian soccer fan should give all of them a piece of our minds.

It would be hard to implement every Canadian team to playing attractive and attacking soccer. You can't force managers to play a 4-2-4.

I agree. Gambling on soccer is key. All Western European countries have totos. The lottery corporation here is lousy at doing totos. They keep too high a percentage and consequently the pay outs are not worth investing in. If they kept 25%, gave a Canadian Soccer League 25%, and paid out 50% things might become attractive for the gambler. The 67% the lottery foundation keeps, limits a three catagory prize pay out to 11% for each of the 13, 12 and 11 correct pay out catagories. The house is keeping too great a cut. Raising wagers, like the $1 to $2 raise in 6/49 wagers is not the way to generate more income. The odds of winning big in totos are about as long as Sammy bin Laden planting a bomb at the next CSA AGM.

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quote:Originally posted by Danny Boy

My personal opinion is that we will never have a league if profits or revenues are directly linked to gate receipts. We need to look at other options or sources of revenue. The major 3 leagues in the US all have large TV and merch deals and do not have to rely as much on gate. We don't have that luxury but we have to look at these sorts of revenue streams (even the NHL has this problem). I wonder if gaming is an option for a league. Maybe we could position the league closer to Horse racing or Jai Alai. Have slot machines at stadiums and people could bet on which team will win. Kinda far fetched and possibly illegal but could it work?

Gaming is an idea I briefly touched upon on page 3. I wonder what the legal ramifications are.

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  • 3 weeks later...

the thread that will not die....

Here is Victoria's schedule in the AMSL for Outdoor 2005. As discussed many posts ago, I will start a new thread for the AMSL with their entire schedule once the league releases it.

Date Time (all pm) Home Away Location

May 29, Saturday 2:00 Victoria Scottish Victoria, Edmonton

June 6, Sunday 3:00 Victoria Renegades Victoria, Edmonton

June 12 Saturday 2:00 Victoria Ital Canadians Victoria, Edmonton

June 19 Saturday 2:00 Renegades Victoria Great Chief, Red Deer

June 26 Saturday 2:00 Callies Victoria Broadview, Calgary

June 27 Sunday 2:00 Villians Victoria Broadview, Calgary

July 7 Wednesday 5:30 Green & Gold Victoria Foote Field, Edmonton

July 10 Saturday 3:00 Victoria Croatia Victoria, Edmonton

July 11 Sunday 2:00 Victoria Dinos Victoria, Edmonon

July 18 Sunday 2:00 Scottish Victoria Ellerslie, Edmonton

July 24 Saturday 12:00 Dinos Victoria Broadview, Calgary

July 25 Sunday 2:00 Croatia Victoria Soccer Centre, Lethbridge

August 10 Tuesday 7:00 Victoria Green & Gold Victoria, Edmonton

August 14 Saturday 2:00 Victoria Villians Victoria, Edmonton

August 15 Sunday 2:00 Victoria Callies Victoria, Edmonton

August 18 Wednesday 7:00 Ital-Canadians Victoria Clarke Stadium, Edmonton

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