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New Canadian League Thread...

Moosehead

By Moosehead
in Canadian Teams & Leagues

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Danny Boy Newbie

Danny Boy

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If West Jet and this proposed league formed and strategic partnership , maybe they could reduce the price for flights in exchange for exclusive rights to advertising. "Carling Premiership" anyone? Bartering is still an effective way of getting services at lower prices when both parties have something of value to offer.

The league would have to set up some sort of centralized marketing office to take advantage of the economy of scale factor. The 8 teams would have to buy into this system to make it work.

Perhaps as employees of the league, players could be summoned to help out the league sponsors in their own promotion. Davide Xausa doing Holiday Inn ads or something like that. Holiday Inn gets to use the players for promos, the league gets lower prices at hotels.

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youllneverwalkalone Mentor

youllneverwalkalone

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quote:Originally posted by Robert

That's great that you want to get involved River City. Any help at all is gratefully appreciated. I wonder if there are any other Voyageurs interested in getting involved in this process. There's still a lot of Canada east of the CPSL that is unaccounted for. Are there any regional leagues that anyone feels are being neglected? Maintaining a principle of keeping it simple, I suggest limiting this ranking system to regional leagues.

Canadian teams for 2005 Voyageurs rankings so far include;

01) Montreal Impact (USL – I)

02) Toronto Lynx (USL – I)

03) Vancouver Whitecaps (USL – I)

04) Fraser Valley Action (PCSL)

05) Khalsa Sporting Club (PCSL)

06) Kamloops City (PCSL)

07) Okanagan Challenge (PCSL)

08) Penticton Pinnacles (PCSL)

09) Surrey United (PCSL)

10) University of British Columbia (PCSL)

11) Victoria United (PCSL)

12) Whitecaps FC Reserves (PCSL)

13) Brampton (CPSL)

14) Durham Storm (CPSL)

15) Hamilton Thunder (CPSL)

16) Laval Dynamites (CPSL)

17) London City (CPSL)

18) North York Astros (CPSL)

19) Oakville Blue Devils (CPSL)

20) St. Catharines Roma Wolves (CPSL)

21) Toronto Croatia (CPSL)

22) Toronto Supra (CPSL)

23) Vaughan Shooters (CPSL)

24) Calgary Callies (AMSL)

25) Edmonton Scottish (AMSL)

26) Calgary Villains (AMSL)

27) Calgary Dinosaurs (AMSL)

28) Edmonton Green & Gold (AMSL)

29) Edmonton Ital-Canadians (AMSL)

30) Edmonton Victoria (AMSL)

31) Red Deer Renegades (AMSL)

32) Lethbridge Croatia (AMSL)

Please report any errors or feel free to suggest any possible additions to this list. Hopefully all the league schedules will be available soon.

What about Abbotsford Rangers? I thought they were actually semi-pro (PDL)? Do they still exist?

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Robert Newbie

Robert

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quote:Originally posted by youllneverwalkalone

What about Abbotsford Rangers? I thought they were actually semi-pro (PDL)? Do they still exist?

Good question. Would anyone care to make a suggestion on Premier Development League teams. I believe that there are three Canadian clubs, the Abbotsford Rangers, the Ottawa Fury and the Thunder Bay Chill, involved in this U23 professional development system. Did I miss any? What are the arguements for and against including these teams in a rankinging system. If we apply the previously mentioned "senior" designation, would this affect their inclusion, and how would that relate to other teams on the list like the Whitecaps Reserves of the PCSL.

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ted Mentor

ted

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quote:Originally posted by bettermirror

is the pcsl really better than the cpsl? you don't often hear of pcsl players going pro while cpsl players do from time to time.

I honestly do not know if the CPSL produces more pros then the PCSL. I would not say one is "better" given that I have never seen a CPSL game but to answer your point have you ever heard of Josh Simpson? He was a standout on the Victoria United (PCSL) roster. Tyler Hughes played for United as did Geordie Lyall and Liam Girard. There have been more but those are the ones that come to mind and that is just from one team in the league.

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DJT Newbie

DJT

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I'm not sure why the ranking discussion ended up in this thread, but it should be kept in the other thread. Some people might be interested in the ranking but may not see it here if they are not interested in talk about a new league (while others might be visiting this thread for talk about a new league but will run into something completely different).

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DoyleG Collaborator

DoyleG

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quote:Originally posted by An Observer

$600k divided by 22 players works out to $27k per player....doesn't sound like full-time soccer to me and doesn't sound like it will do anything to develop Canadian soccer other than be a step backward from the USL. Of course, most of that $600k will go to pay a few foreigners and a couple of high profile Canadians. The rest will get paid so little that they will need to supplement their income by working a McDonalds or something....

When we propose a Canadian league....we should think of the players who have to play in it and not just our own nationalistic dreams.

Based on your standards, teh CFL must be a semi-pro league as well.

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An Observer Veteran

An Observer

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If the CFL pays players an average of $27k CDN a year, then it is semi-pro. I am not familiar with the CFLs salary level and more importantly, I think that even $600k on players salaries for A Canadian league is widely unrealistic for the reasons already mentioned on this board...but DoyleG, you can continue to dream in neverneverland...thank god, Canadian soccer is not in the hands of people like you.

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ted Mentor

ted

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quote:Originally posted by An Observer

If the CFL pays players an average of $27k CDN a year, then it is semi-pro. I am not familiar with the CFLs salary level and more importantly, I think that even $600k on players salaries for A Canadian league is widely unrealistic for the reasons already mentioned on this board...but DoyleG, you can continue to dream in neverneverland...thank god, Canadian soccer is not in the hands of people like you.

OK, I'm sorry if you have mentioned it before but as you are in the UK do you actually have any knowledge of N. American Sports?

I ask because at one time most professional sports over here have been what you would consider semi-pro because they had limited seasons. I know that the English and European leagues go for ten months or more per year but North American sport has been built on a limited season for each sport. It is only after years of having NHL and NFL players work "real" jobs in the off-season that they eventually were able to do nothing else for pay and live comfortably.

The CFL, like the NHL and other N.Am. pro sports, runs for a specific season. They are paid as full-time pros during that season and outside of that they are on their own. Any new CSL would have a limited season of no more than about 6-7 months of playing time.

This is the way the A-League, sorry ...USL Div.1, does it right now and it would be THE SAME for any new pro league. No one with any honesty is trying to say a new CSL would be an immediate improvement in pay and benefits to players and likewise you should stop complaining that it would be worse than the current pay and benefits available in the USL-D1 Reasonable proposed budgets for a new league are based on current standards for the Whitecaps, Impact and Lynx.

The point of a new Canadian league is a long-term plan that will start with MORE Canadian players being paid on par with current Canadian USL-D1 teams. Not the same number of Canadians being paid better. The next step would be to be able to offer some European-based Canadians competitive wages to return to Canada. The final goal is to have MORE Canadian players paid MORE than currently available for playing in Canada which should also be competitive with compensation paid by European teams (outside the top 10%.)

However, given that MLSE and MLS are likely to come up with a team for T.O. this whole discussion is pointless. An MLS team in T.O. means there will be no national league in Canada. We cannot have both and the people with money are making the decision. IMHO it is not the best way forward for soccer in Canada from any perspective (players, fans or sponsors) but there is really nothing we can do about it.

Seriously, anyone wasting time talking about a new national league at this point is seriously in need of professional help (myself included if I don't shut up about it :D ). What would be more useful is to build and strengthen the regional leagues and that should be a new thread or threads.

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Robert Newbie

Robert

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quote:Originally posted by An Observer

If the CFL pays players an average of $27k CDN a year, then it is semi-pro. I am not familiar with the CFLs salary level and more importantly, I think that even $600k on players salaries for A Canadian league is widely unrealistic for the reasons already mentioned on this board...but DoyleG, you can continue to dream in neverneverland...thank god, Canadian soccer is not in the hands of people like you.

Usually I respect what you have to contribute from the UK, however, within the realm of our Canadian soccer environment, I am compelled to strongly disagree with your perception of what is realistic or not for a Canadian Soccer League. In my opinion, the greatest obstacle confronting a new CSL is the unwillingness by those would could to start of small. The CSA would rather associate with the largeness, by North American standards, of one Canadian team's participation in the MLS, then to get involved with the creation of a domestic product, which inevitably will always be much smaller than our American counterpart. However, based on the CSA's track record, their non-involvement at this stage will prove to be a blessing, because eventually when a new CSL does materialize, their equally inevitable aboutface will place them in their proper place. Your derision of the $600,000 figure, reflects your incomplete foreign understanding of the Canadian soccer dilemma. Coming from a world where $600,000 constitutes minimum wages, I can understand your perspection. The fact of the matter is, those amounts of money will always be a neverneverland fantasy when it comes to Canadian sports, let alone Canadian soccer. One just has to take a look at the current problems confronting our Canadian NHL teams with the amounts of money that is involved there. There's more to life here in Canada than supporting a soccer club, and that is a reality. The vast travelling distances in Canada are a major challenge, but one that with some astute planning can be dealt with. Stadiums, either too small or in a few cases too large, IMO is a secondary concern. How many times do Canadian soccer fans suffer the dissapointment of not being able to attend a match because the game is a sell-out? The only time I can remember was at the Trinidad - Canada World Cup qualifier in Edmonton, and that was not because the stadium was full, but because the CSA had committed one of the most cardinal underestimates of all time, as they were unable to cope with the public interest because they had only hired a couple of people to sell tickets at the stadium. Many fans left because more than half an hour of the game had elapsed and they were still in a line-up. Whether a stadium is concidered too small or large at this stage is insignificant, we are blessed with stadiums. The biggest problem we have in getting a Canadian Soccer League off the ground is a large enough paying fan base. Go to games and bring along some younsters. The only way that soccer will ever be able to survive is if it is capable of supporting itself. Getting some rich owners involved, may create a product for a short period of time, however, the past shows us that these individuals all withdraw their support after a period of time when it becomes obvious there are enough paying fans for the product that they are offering. This will eventually happen in Toronto. Now they have an undersupported Lynx team, soon they will be joined by an MLS team, the Lynx will fold, the MLS soccer team novelty will wear off after a period of time and Toronto will wind up having 0 pro soccer teams for a while. That's when people will say; "Oh well, it's only soccer," and that when the game really receives a major set-back. When the largest market in Canada fails to have a pro team.:(

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Robert Newbie

Robert

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quote:Originally posted by ted

Seriously, anyone wasting time talking about a new national league at this point is seriously in need of professional help (myself included if I don't shut up about it :D ). What would be more useful is to build and strengthen the regional leagues and that should be a new thread or threads.

Well said. You beat me by 6.5 minutes. I can see where you felt we could work together, except for my charm;). I just don't like having to agree with your final paragraph. Wishing Vic United all the best luck, their going to need it.

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Calgary Boomer Newbie

Calgary Boomer

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quote:Originally posted by Robert

Well said. You beat me by 6.5 minutes. I can see where you felt we could work together, except for my charm;). I just don't like having to agree with your final paragraph. Wishing Vic United all the best luck, their going to need it.

Keep supporting the small regional leagues that draw 50-100 fans. Right...that'll save Canadian Soccer. I'm honestly so tired of hearing about the CPSL and the PCSL and national club championships and promotion-relegation. It's great you guys support it, but it is SO not the solution because every player in those leagues would rather play for a better club that actually pays them money!

As for the previous post, the biggest obstacle is not convincing the powers that be to start small, it's having people from all levels of the game on the same page.

You're are right about one thing, we don't need to start big like MLS...the Canadian public by and large supported the CSL (especially out west) with average gates between 2500 and 4000. The big clubs (TOR VAN MTL) need to be the flagship teams with modest sized parks (10,000)to play in, but the secondary markets could manage just fine in smaller homes. Equalization would be the best scenario where everyone shares in league profit and loss, ticket sales and corporate sponsorship.

The biggest obstacle for the CSL was owners who's interest was on their own clubs, and not the league as a whole.

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