Serioux transfered to Millwall FC ?

[SeanKeay]

Actually the same person who posted that Serioux is going to milwall posted that Serioux also got the call for Guatamala

[Free kick]

Has anyone ever noticed how many transfers are reported each day throughout the off season? On a slow day there might be a dozen. On a busy day, there might be two dozen or more. Meaning that over a summer, anywhere from 1000-1500 players will be moved from one club to another. So far all that we have come up with is anywhere from six to twelve players this year and mention of one or two players over the past three years who have moved up a level. WOW, that only further proves my point. That's less than one percent! Further proof, that places like Milwall and Tranmere are dead end jobs for aspiring profesional (i.e.: Internatinal) footballers. Furthermore, having athletes in these environments is counterproductive for nations like canada trying to build respect for their football internationally.

Granted, the 1000-1500 figure involved all professional clubs. But if you only look at the transfer activity of the eighteen Premiership clubs, 6-12 players shows that the odds are still EXTREMELY long. I wouldn't like those odds if I were an ambitious talented player. I am beginning to think that playing in these leagues is worst than what the AHL is for aspiring professional hockey players.

To quote our departed former MNT coach what this country needs are more Premiership players. He's right. While the example was given that Ireland and Scotland has players at these levels, it should be noted that historically these nations have not been regular contenders at international competitions. When they have accomplished something its been the results of a cycle whereby one or two star players are pulling the wagon for the rest of the program. Plus Ireland and Scotland have such a huge number of players in these leagues that they can find some sort of cream of the crop within these leagues. Canada doesn't.

Again, the first division in less recognized league is better. Simpson and Candian soccer would be better off in the a-league than Milwall.

[Free kick]

quote:Originally posted by Gian-Luca

If Serioux or Simpson make it to the Millwall first team, we will have added to our depth considerably in terms of more players at a high level for 10 months of the year - and only 3 Canadian players (Radzinski, Stalteri & De Guzman) would currently play at a higher level.

This is where I now disagree. My thoughts on this topic have evolved to point where I do not believe that having players at these levels adds any depth to our national programs at all. Thats the point that I have been trying to get at in this whole thread. What adds depth to the program is players at top levels.

But I agree that for the Lynx and Adrian Serioux, it a good move. But for the national programs, it makes no difference IMO.

[RS]

quote:Originally posted by Gian-Luca

If Serioux or Simpson make it to the Millwall first team, we will have added to our depth considerably in terms of more players at a high level for 10 months of the year - and only 3 Canadian players (Radzinski, Stalteri & De Guzman) would currently play at a higher level.

Depending on the amount of match action he sees, Brennan would be the fourth Canadian player at that top level for the upcoming season.

[sstackho]

quote:Originally posted by Free kick

Further proof, that places like Milwall and Tranmere are dead end jobs for aspiring profesional (i.e.: Internatinal) footballers.

I don't think that playing 2nd tier English soccer is a dead-end, even if you play at that level for your entire career. It's a respectable league. There are loads of international players playing at this level.

quote:

To quote our departed former MNT coach what this country needs are more Premiership players.

Perhaps he meant that what this country needs are more Premiership-quality players.

[bettermirror]

being a career 1st division or "2nd tier" (not top league/premiership) player is very respectable. pesch has done it and we all applaud him don't we?

[Andrew W]

Bobby Convey, who by all accounts (and from what I've seen) has an extremely bright future, doesn't see it as a dead end. Nor does Eddie Lewis who has always impressed me for the US. He's been at Preston for the last three years and has been important in the US MNT's rise. And we're not just talking occassional add-ons to the US team, we're talking first-choice players in their national set-up. I'm sure both also have strong ambition to get to the Premiership. So if players like these see it as a step up from MLS, a player like Simpson might as well take that chance, IMO.

[Gordon]

quote:Originally posted by Free kick

There is where I now disagree. My thoughts on this topic have evolved to point where I do not believe that having players at these levels adds any depth to our national programs at all. Thats the point that I have been trying to get at in this whole thread. What adds depth to the program is players at top levels.

But I agree that for the Lynx and Adrian Serioux, it a good move. But for the national programs, it makes no difference IMO.

You cannot have players in the top levels unless they are good enough to play there. And that has been our point. You have assumed that Josh Simpson should be in the Premier League on the basis of a friendly against a 10 man Millwall. We are saying that if he is good enough he will get there, and that going to Millwall is a better option than staying at Portland or going to the MLS. How Many players from MLS transfer into the Premier League: A hell of a lot less than from the 1st Division. Has a college player ever done so? Not that I can recall. There will be 30-40 players who plied their trade in the 1st Division last year who will be playing in the Premiership this year. Yes, substantial portions, Jim Brennan included, who got there through promotion.

In the mean time, having more players playing at a higher level than they are currently can only help our national team. And I will point out that Ireland and Wales, among others, dress players playing in the 1st Division, as do many of the CONCACAF nations that, in the last go round anyway, did better than us.

Reality Check: Canada is a nation whose soccer players - with a few exceptions - ply their trade in the second tier, more or less. We can not magically make Josh Simpson, Mike Klukowski or Dwayne DeRosario into 1st tier players. All of them might get there, but they are not there yet, so they must grind it our like thousands of other aspiring pros. If you are suggesting that there is no difference between trying to compete for the World Cup with second tier players versus third tier players then you and I see things differently. Certainly all of us would like to see 40+ Canadians sprinkled throughout the Premier League, La Liga, Serie A and the Bundesliga. Until that happens, I'll take the 1st Division, Belgium, Norway and the Bund2 over the A-league and Division 2. Great Leagues with great supporters the latter two, but the level of play, and players, is a little lower. And that is why is why I get a bit pumped about youg players moving to Division 1. We'd all be more pumped if it were Arsenal, Milan or Barca, but it ain't Oxford or a regional league either.

[Free kick]

quote:Originally posted by Gordon

You cannot have players in the top levels unless they are good enough to play there. And that has been our point.

I am fully aware of that. I have never for a second disputed that notion. What I dispute is that these environments are ideal for DEVELOPING into internationals. I don't think Radzinski at 24 had any more raw talent than Hume has now at 20. The difference is that Rad took a different path to get to where he is at now. Thats the whole point of my argument. My point is: had Radzinski gone where Hume is currently at, would he be where he is at now? I'd bet that he would still be playing in second division soccer. Did Rad not improve ten fold from 1998 to the period where he rejoined the MNT. That was noticeble immediately when I saw him in the game versus switzerland compared to what I recall of him in WCQ 98. Did Pesch really improve by going over there after he left the CSL. Have to say the 10 goals in 50 games as international for canada is quite disspointing considering the extremely bright future that I thought he had when seeing him in the CSL. Again compare that to Rad.

quote:

You have assumed that Josh Simpson should be in the Premier League on the basis of a friendly against a 10 man Millwall. We are saying that if he is good enough he will get there, and that going to Millwall is a better option than staying at Portland or going to the MLS.

I NEVER ASSUMED that for a minute. I am saying MLS or 1st div smaller club in places like Portugal, Belgium, Switzerland even Scotland is better than places like Milwall, tranmere or Macclesborough. I am saying that if he is good enough he may not even get a sniff of the prem by going to these places. EPL clubs seemingly don't need to look to these sides for reinforcements when there is plenty of stock in places like 1st div Portugal, France, Belgium, Scandinavia or even smaller clubs in africa.. Thats why we need desparately MLS or something comparable here in canada. That way we don't lose talent into the blackhole of lower divisions. That may be good for the players individually, but it does nothng to grow the game, improve the visibiity of our players or improve our fortunes against sides like Mexico, the US or CRC.

quote:

How Many players from MLS transfer into the Premier League: A hell of a lot less than from the 1st Division. Has a college player ever done so? Not that I can recall. There will be 30-40 players who plied their trade in the 1st Division last year who will be playing in the Premiership this year. Yes, substantial portions, Jim Brennan included, who got there through promotion.

Yes, promotion is the only way to get there. But if your with a crappy club? or a club that doesn't have the finances to get to top flight? I am curious to see how many of these 6-12 player over the past several years who have been transferred to EPL, have actually beens starters with their repective clubs. All I am saying, which ooportunity gives you the BEST CHANCE to showcase your talents so that the best opportunities come your way? who gives you the best chance to play in europe. What path gives you the best chance to realize your full potential

quote:

Reality Check: Canada is a nation whose soccer players - with a few exceptions - ply their trade in the second tier, more or less. We can not magically make Josh Simpson, Mike Klukowski or Dwayne DeRosario into 1st tier players. All of them might get there, but they are not there yet, so they must grind it our like thousands of other aspiring pros. If you are suggesting that there is no difference between trying to compete for the World Cup with second tier players versus third tier players then you and I see things differently. Certainly all of us would like to see 40+ Canadians sprinkled throughout the Premier League, La Liga, Serie A and the Bundesliga.

I am sorry to say, but unless I have read this incorrectly, it would appear that you have missed my point. Come on, I am not saying that you can wave magic wand and have all player in top leagues. The question is, whats the best way to get there and whats best for canadian soccer programs versus whats best for the individual players. I haven't any issue with a player like Serioux moving the these clubs. Good for him. But 18-20 year old, thats another story. Talent aside, who has brighter future in the game between Klukowski or Hume right now. Hume obviously has more natural abilities but Klukowski is being seen much more. A future move to a top four club in his league is quite realitic. That would mean european play and being seen by biggers clubs in the bigger leagues including the EPL. So even though he may have less natural abilities than hume he is is a better position to realize his potential. So when WCQ 2010 rolls around, who is going to be better prepared for international play.

[Gian-Luca]

quote:Originally posted by Free kick

Simpson...would be better off in the a-league than Milwall.

I can't agree at all with that statement. If you were had aspirations of playing pro, would you play in a league that only pays you a few months of the year & forces you to get another job in the off-season, or would you rather be paid all year round, like a proper professional?

Simpson would likely make more cash in Millwall than the MLS. If Canada had an MLS team or two that he could star in and not worry about counting as an import, I might agree that going to MLS than Div.1 and foregoing the chances of promotion to the EPL (by Bosman or by club) - if he could make the same amount of money - would be just as good or better - but right now we don't. Until the improvements happen on that count, going to the 1st division is better than heading for the A-league. He could still stick in the MLS as an import for a long time like De Rosario - or he could be shunted off a squad because he is not American & Canadians don't pull in the US crowds - look at what happened to Bartolomeu.

[Gordon]

quote:Originally posted by Free kick

[I am fully aware of that. I have never for a second disputed that notion. What I dispute is that these environments are ideal for DEVELOPING into internationals.

Well I am completely unsure what your point is since then. As far as I can tell, you are starting from a perception - unsupported by any data - that MLS, Belgium, Switzerland is a better route to top flight football than the English First. To convince me, tell me how many players have gone from Switzerland, Belgium & MLS into a top flight team, even better, how many Canadians? I would venture that the 1st Division has put more players into top flight football over any given time period than the other three combined, and certainly more than any one of them. This is probably true of the Portuguese league as well, although the numbers there will be skewed by Portugals relative standing as a football power. Of course more players are going to top flight football from France, Brazil, Argentina and the like: They are good football nations.

Radz would still be in the second Division? Well, that is a nice piece of conjecture. How does one argue against that? Its pure speculation. What is it based on? Radzinski got "spotted" playing against Man U in the Champs League. He didn't get into the Premiership until he was what? 28? Perhaps if he had gone to Millwall he might of gotten there at 23. Again, pure conjecture, but as inpossible for you to argue against as the reverse.

Klukowski having better options than Hume? And a better player by 2010? Once again, conjecture unsupported by anything. It just might be so. But if Hume beats Klukowski into a top flight what then? I'd suggest that it is likely without even accounting for the age difference. Nevertheless, I need to see some empirical evidence that suggests Belgium, MLS, Switzerland, Sweden, Norway are better portals to Top flight football than the First Division overall. And then, factor into it that we are talking about Canadian players. AS I see it, Brennan and Radzinski are in the EPL: One took your suggested route, one took the the lower divisions of England.

To be clear, I am only arguing against the supposition that Canadian players should thumb their noses at the first division in hopes of something better coming along. And I reject the notion that players playing in the First Division are not an improvement over players in the Second Division, A-League, College, PDL for developing our national team players.

[Jeremy Loome]

Anybody who thinks MLS -- regardless of their 'friendlies' against prem teams -- is at the same level as the English First Division (which I think is calling itself "The Championship" or something this year) is kidding themselves. MLS is full of talented players and some very exciting football but it's played a gear or two lower than England's top two leagues and is far, far less physical. Even the relatively technically based Spanish second division, which also tends to concentrate more on speed and touch than strength, is a physically tougher game than MLS.

The Italian Serie 'b', the Spanish Second Division and the English First Division are all in the top 10 leagues, probably a fairly even sixth, if you consider the French league the Fifth strongest and the Dutch and Scottish leagues tied with the first divisions.

[Gordon]

Been thinking about this a bit more. I would think that the second tier top flight leagues in Europe (Belgium, Switzerland and the like) probably are better scouted than the English First by German, Italian and Spanish teams (even France and Holand for that matter). So from this perspective, if a Canadian player was entertaining offers from both a Continental European team and a "little chance of promotion" team in the English First, then, yes, he'd very likely be better off taking the european offer.

Still no confirmation on the rumours?

[Free kick]

quote:Originally posted by Gordon

Still no confirmation on the rumours?

Just realized something. I didn't really bother to open the link that started this thread. But I just realized that there is no official or credible source for this story what so ever. Nothing on any of the British soccer sites. Nothing on any of the sites that report transfers. Nothing from the Lynx.

All there is to this story is some post from some guy who cannot supply a source on the USLDiscussions site. I'm sorry but that is not enough to go by. It looks pretty obvious that he was just yanking the chain of a few canadians. Looks like it worked as there are a couple of threads on this subject. I should have opened the Link that GL posted. Had I done so, and noticed that there is no official backup to this story, I would not have bothered reponding to this thread.

I am sure that there are more productive uses for the time we spent arguing the merits of Lower divison UK soccer leagues as development tool for Canadian soccer [|)]

[beachesl]

quote:Originally posted by Free kick

Just realized something. I didn't really bother to open the link that started this thread. But I just realized that there is no official or credible source for this story what so ever. Nothing on any of the British soccer sites. Nothing on any of the sites that report transfers. Nothing from the Lynx.

All there is to this story is some post from some guy who cannot supply a source on the USLDiscussions site. I'm sorry but that is not enough to go by. It looks pretty obvious that he was just yanking the chain of a few canadians. Looks like it worked as there are a couple of threads on this subject. I should have opened the Link that GL posted. Had I done so, and noticed that there is no official backup to this story, I would not have bothered reponding to this thread.

Well, the other current thread on this issue involving both Serioux and Simpson (and many, including me, have expressed great skepticism[])

http://www.canadian-soccer.com/forum/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=3901

does discuss in length how credible these reports are. You are right, there is no credible posted link. However, there has been some circumstantial evidence such as both no longer showing up to play for their club teams, and Simpson's brother, the irrascible poster "codegoat", is going out of his way to play sillybooger (and I mean that in a nice way), so......

EDIT re post 2 below me....oooooooohhhhhh, tasty morsel that, me darlin's!

[Free kick]

quote:Originally posted by beachesl

there has been some circumstantial evidence such as both no longer showing up to play for their club teams, and Simpson's brother, the irrascible poster "codegoat",

Well I am not a lawyer, But I have seen enough episodes of Law and Order to know what circumstantial evidence is worth.

[cyris2k]

I guess it would be appropriate at this time to clarify this thread. In attempts to remain anonymous and discreet while providing this leaked information it is nonetheless accurate. There has been a recent signing of a Toronto Lynx player who has signed a multi year deal with the clubs 1st team and expect to be announced by the end of the week as announcement has been pending UK visa acquisition. Note that this Lynx player did not travel with the club out west last weekend as he prepares to join his new club. For all those concerned about work permit issues see: UK Working Holiday Maker details http://www.visa4uk.fco.gov.uk/. I find it difficult to understand why some think that MLS holds a candle to many of the European leagues. The MLS is designed to promote US talent and adopt foreign nationals who the league uses to add credibility and “brand names”. So how about we applaud a fellow Canadians performance versus international talent and hope that the Canadian A-League clubs use this to better promote themselves and give hope to those Canadian player who take the less traveled road.

[Luis_Rancagua]

quote:Originally posted by cyris2k

I guess it would be appropriate at this time to clarify this thread. In attempts to remain anonymous and discreet while providing this leaked information it is nonetheless accurate. There has been a recent signing of a Toronto Lynx player who has signed a multi year deal with the clubs 1st team and expect to be announced by the end of the week as announcement has been pending UK visa acquisition. Note that this Lynx player did not travel with the club out west last weekend as he prepares to join his new club. For all those concerned about work permit issues see: UK Working Holiday Maker details http://www.visa4uk.fco.gov.uk/. I find it difficult to understand why some think that MLS holds a candle to many of the European leagues. The MLS is designed to promote US talent and adopt foreign nationals who the league uses to add credibility and “brand names”. So how about we applaud a fellow Canadians performance versus international talent and hope that the Canadian A-League clubs use this to better promote themselves and give hope to those Canadian player who take the less traveled road.

It appears that Serioux is the player being mentioned here so vaguely, given the fact that he's the only Lyxn player involved in the Millwall deal. Now about Josh Simpson??? Why are you NOT</u> in a position to discuss his situation. In your comments above, you only talk about one player, and that player seems to be Serioux. I was under the impression that there were 2 Canadian players going to Millwall, and not one.

[cyris2k]

I am only able to discuss Serioux's situation as I have had the opportunity to speak with him and Coach Wilde.

[beachesl]

quote:Originally posted by Luis_Rancagua

It appears that Serioux is the player being mentioned here so vaguely, given the fact that he's the only Lyxn player involved in the Millwall deal. Now about Josh Simpson??? Why are you NOT</u> in a position to discuss his situation. In your comments above, you only talk about one player, and that player seems to be Serioux. I was under the impression that there were 2 Canadian players going to Millwall, and not one.

Well, maybe the Lynx player he was anominously referring to was Nusum, he is able to hoof it over the bar as good as that Englsh superstar Beckham! As for Simpson , our new "source" would not have been in a position to talk to either him or anyone in Coloradoor Oregon involved if he was a groupee in TO.

I don't think it is in the interest of any actually involved to reveal the situation until visa approvals are had and contracts signed, as it would be counterproductive. If it all comes to naught, I wouldn't be surpirsed if the stillborn efforts would not be commented on.

Let's all take a valium (or other distractor of choice) and wait until the announcements come (or not). In the meantime, let's flirt with a little bit of gossip while grinning like cheshire cats.[]

[Free kick]

quote:Originally posted by beachesl

Well, maybe the Lynx player he was anominously referring to was Nusum, he is able to hoof it over the bar as good as that Englsh superstar Beckham! As for Simpson , our new "source" would not have been in a position to talk to either him or anyone in Coloradoor Oregon involved if he was a groupee in TO.

I don't think it is in the interest of any actually involved to reveal the situation until visa approvals are had and contracts signed, as it would be counterproductive. If it all comes to naught, I wouldn't be surpirsed if the stillborn efforts would not be commented on.

Let's all take a valium (or other distractor of choice) and wait until the announcements come (or not). In the meantime, let's flirt with a little bit of gossip while grinning like cheshire cats.[]

The story is FALSE!!!! simple as that. There is no reason what so ever for the Lynx or Milwall to not issue a Press release stating so immediately. Think about it for second, what possible reason is there for not annoucing these things immediately

[Gian-Luca]

quote:Originally posted by Free kick

It looks pretty obvious that he was just yanking the chain of a few canadians. Looks like it worked as there are a couple of threads on this subject. I should have opened the Link that GL posted. Had I done so, and noticed that there is no official backup to this story, I would not have bothered reponding to this thread.

I never posted a link in this thread. I would think that inability to obtain a UK work permit would be a good reason to not make a signing official if the signing is contingent on the player obtaining a UK permit - such a clause is more than possible. I haven't opened the new link to this new way of getting a UK permit to see what it entails, but if that is legit. then it would explain quite a bit.

I wouldn't be so quick to dismiss this story as being un-true. For it to be a conspiracy to hoodwink the Voyageurs and Canadian soccer fans, we'd need 1. a motive for doing so 2. a reason for starting the conspiracy on the USL discussions & Millwall supporters boards rather than simply coming here 3. ability to get Serioux & Simpson benched by their respective clubs for the sake of misleading us (since these rumours came out prior to the players not playing for their current clubs) 4. Josh Simpson's brother Travis to not deny this as being true even when asked if he could do so and end the speculation here and now.

As such, I'm willing to give the cyris2k the benefit of the doubt until we know more. Even if it turns out not to happen (ie. they don't get permits & don't get signed) it doesn't mean that it wasn't true that they were interested in signing these two.

[Gian-Luca]

quote:Originally posted by Free kick

If you cannot reveal your sources or don't have a media link take somewhere. I only care to know when it is announced. If I were moderating, these kind of things would be deleted.

I disagree - why should the moderators delete this kind of stuff? People are intelligent enough to read what has been posted and decide for themselves if they believe it is true.

Let's give new poster the benefit of the doubt for now, as there is a lot of circumstantial evidence which suggests this is not merely a bogus fantasy jointly conjured up by Millwall & Lynx supporters. If Serioux is still around with the Lynx for the rest of the season we can easily ask him ourselves if there was any attempt by Millwall to sign him.

[Free kick]

But if its true, what possible reason could there be for there not being an anouncement even if it is pending a work permit. If we are to give even the slightest credance to every annoymous poster who gives this kind of info then what will this board become? alot of what I rely on this board for is infomation and if the info is not trustworthy?

OK, maybe the occasional annoymous poster may be in a position to really provide truthful and accurate infomation. But I am willing to bet that most who write that kind of stuff on internet forums are not in that position. So I don't care for it because anyone can make up a rumour. If this person is actually Adrian Seriuox himself or anyone who associated with the lynx why not identify themselves as such.

As far as info from one of the party's brother. Why doesn't he just say identify himself as a family member and say so. why not say there has been contact with the club or not. If they cannot say so why bother posting. I feel that that it is just taking people for fools when you do that. When Paul Stalteri's wife posted here, was there any doubt who the poster was? no one was left in doubt and why can't others conduct themselves in the same manner.

I can live with not knowing something until it becomes official if it means that you weed out all the rumors stuff. But thats just y opinion. And my opinions on this would not change even if this story turns out to be true.

[beachesl]

Hmmm, well if we waited, for instance, until the CSA site made things "official", we'd be the last people in the world to learn what is happening in Canadian soccer.

Add to that, we'd completely miss out on the real wherefore and the why.

It turns out that most of the rumours we hear here are the closest things to the truth, even after the official announcements try to make them bloodless.

Let's weigh the rumours with the balance of scepticism, but let's at last talk about everything in the vacuum of official silence, whether anonymous or not. Carpe diem.