OQ: Canada vs. Panama (R)

[Gian-Luca]

quote:Originally posted by Dave

I sincerely hope you are right G-L. The alternative explanations are not pleasant to contemplate.

If you mean right about them all being in Brazilian & Argentinian leagues, I wouldn't get your hopes up.

[Guest Dave]

I might not have been clear in my wording. My point was that, in the early to mid 80s the only team in the region that routinely beat us was Mex, and during that time we were IMO slightly better than CR and Hond. We were miles ahead of teams like Panama, Jam, Cuba etc. What the h.ell happened? Is it reasonable to just accept that everyone else in the region got better? or is it equally likely that something terrible happened to Canadian soccer since then, and is it continuing to happen as we speak? You are right this is not acceptable. Didn't Kevan Pipe's rule start sometime at the end of the 80's? Is that a coincidence?

[Guest Dave]

quote:Originally posted by Gian-Luca

If you mean right about them all being in Brazilian & Argentinian leagues, I wouldn't get your hopes up.

I meant right about it being the coach's fault. At least that would be easily remedied.

[bungey]

That's terrible. Losing to Panama is jus depressing. I don't suppose the boys had a bit of Tequilla in there veins from last night? Just searching for an excuse, it can't just be that we suck, can it?

[Gian-Luca]

All we can do is worry about making ourselves the best we can. There's nothing we can do to prevent teams like Jamaica, Panama & Cuba from improving themselves. We have to ensure we get better coaches, more Canadians in Europe, more A-league teams and more Canadians - one way or another - in the MLS.

We can't worry about what Concacaf was like 20 years ago, times have changed, other teams have improved (some like El Salvador haven't, and Haiti have never regained their early 70's glory) & we have to adapt & keep moving forward, because nobody else is standing still.

[Gian-Luca]

I don't know about Tequilla, but we should be concerned about how our teams tend to do when playing south of the US. We have a lot of Central American matches coming up

Then again, I didn't think before today's meaningless match that Olympic qualifying would have any bearing on WC qualifying, and I still don't think that will be the case. But I'd still like another morale booster, and soon (for myself, if nothing else).

[Guest Dave]

quote:Originally posted by Gian-Luca

We can't worry about what Concacaf was like 20 years ago, times have changed, other teams have improved (some like El Salvador haven't, and Haiti have never regained their early 70's glory) & we have to adapt & keep moving forward, because nobody else is standing still.

Well, if we accept as fact that everone else has moved forward while we have stood still (as opposed to the alternative hypothesis that we have actually regressed) then the question "How did this happen" is still valid. Since we started in such a favourable position, how is it that we now lose to Panama and Cuba? And why is it that things only get worse every year? It is simply incomprehensible that professional footballers playing in lower divisions in Europe and the A league are unable to win a game against Panama. Why is it that Canada always underacheives at all levels after U20? I am beginning to think that the guys who wrote those unflattering reviews of Canada prior to GC2000 were right after all. H.ell, maybe Panama is better than us now. We seem incapable of beating Martinique for Chrissakes. I dunno guys, I am starting to think we'll be lucky to get past Belize.

[Guest Ed]

quote:Originally posted by Dave

Oh man, if we lose to Panama...

I can't understand how on the one hand we keep developing better players, yet our results just keep getting worse. There was a time when a game vs Panama was virtually a "gimme"

Coaching & preparation come to mind.

[Christian B.]

Not only Panama beat us but also they scored 6 goals against the same opposition as we faced. We scored a grand total of 1.....

[Guest Dave]

Well, maybe someday, if we continue to persevere, show committment, courage, and devotion to the task, if we stick to our long term plan and if we get a few lucky bounces... maybe someday in a generation or two we can dream of the day when we might be competitive with Cuba, Panama, Martinique, and Malta.

[Cheeta]

Couple of thoughts;

Worse possible results of this tourny achieved. Usual helter-skelter side sent (for the usual reasons), predictable results follow. Awful.

How many decades of this are we to endure? For fu'k sakes, there are some witless pricks up high who aren't seeing a trend here and have no clue as to how to arrest it if they did. (I've written it before and I'll write it again. It's time for a purge in the CSA. It's past time for a purge in the CSA. One Stalin would be impressed with. Just let me know when and where the mob is forming...)

I'm upset and I don't give a damn about the Olympics.

Tequilla bad. Smells like kerosine. Tastes like crap. Any drink using a worm to improve flavor should be avoided.

[Guest Ed]

No use getting upset Cheeta. The CSA never does. Just trot out the old standby, arse-saving demographics report for another year. And if they're really in a pinch, they can blame a player or two.

Twamley had 4 freaking years to prepare for this and goes in with 7 f*ing U20 players???? What was the plan for the first 3 years, 10 months of his tenure? Next time, spare us the agony and just send in the points and leave the players behind.

[Guest Ed]

Here's the CONCACAF lineups etc. More cards, ejections.

07.02.2004: Guadalajara, Jalisco MEXICO; Estadio 3 de Marzo (A: 1000)

CANADA – PANAMA 1:2 (1:1)

Robert FRIEND 20’ – José Luis GARCES 13’; Victor MIRANDA 75’

CAN: 1-Andrew Olivieri – 4-Victor Oppong, 5-Chris Pozniak-C, 7-Chris Williams, 8-Rocco Placentino (71: 12-David Masciantonio), 9-Kevin Harmse, 11-Robert Friend, 13-Atiba Hutchinson, 15-Joshua Simpson, 17-Sita-Taty Matondo (46: 6-Tam Nsaliwa), 19-Mathieu Savaria (80: 14-Stephen Ademolu). Booked: Placentino 10’, Friend 28’, Oppong 65’, Sent off: Simpson 81’

TD: Bruce TWANLEY

PAN: 1-Jaime Penedo – 2-Roberto Stewart, 3-Luis Moreno-C, 6-Gustavo Avila, 7-William Aguilar, 9-José Luis Garces (89: 4-Engin Mitre), 10-Luis Tejada (88: 19-Nicolas Munoz), 13-Victor Miranda, 14-Francisco Lopez, 16-Blas Perez, 17-Wess Torres. Booked: Tejada 3’, Perez 23’, Lopez 55’, Stewart 56’, Garces 66’, Moreno 66’, Penedo 78’, Torres 89’, Sent off: Perez 52’

TD: José HERNANDEZ

R: Victor STEWART (JAM)

[Joe Keeper]

What a dissapointing result as well as tournament. There are some quality players here. They should have done far better, and I am beginning to wonder about Bruce Twamley as coach. Hopfully the Frank Yallop years, will see more emphasis on the Olympic teams.

It has been a bit of a disappointing few weeks for Canada. The womens results where not up to par for them. I hope they can turn it around in their Olympic Campaign for us.

Mabey these losses will drive the olympic call ups, in WC qualifying.

This is a reason we need more friendlies, to test newer players

[Gian-Luca]

In the final round of Olympic qualifying the past two times round, we have lost 5 straight matches, just scoring 1 goal & having 4 players sent off (which is two more than we've had at the senior level since 1997).

To add insult to injury, they had a man sent off early in the 2nd half, so they took the lead while we were a man up.

None of this looks particularly good on Twamley, particularly when we are scoring at the U20 & Senior level on a half decent basis, and rarely having players sent off.

I won't be surprised to see another (or two) Imhofs from this age group - ie. players that were not selected to play in Olympic qualifying but who will be used frequently & solidly with the National team.

In any event, Yallop & Mitchell are the future of coaching in Canada (for the forseeable future). I'd like to see some friendlies announced pretty bloody soon - we shouldn't be taking March off from a National team perspective, especially with Olympic qualifying done.

[Reza]

Despite everything that is said in regards to Twamley, U-23 is going to be challenging area for Canada for the forseeable future. And it's mostly because of the position the players are with respect to their clubs.

Obviously, after two failed runs, Twamley must go. That's just a reality in coaching world, but I am sure anyone who comes into that position would have it tough as well.

In some ways, we may have lucked out not making it to Olympics, because the conflicts caused by Athens and WCQ could have been huge. At least we can now put all of our limited resources into one endeavour.

[beachesl]

Right-on Reza!

I might add something further, which I know will be poorly received. As much as it hurts to see a Canadian team lose, the Olympic football tournament is an aberration whose time has passed with so many other tournamnets going on. In 1984, it was genuinely exciting, because there weren't as many tournaments around that Canada could qualify for, and it was the apogee of Canadian soccer success up to then. It was also a huge and exciting accomplishment at that time. Now it would largely have been an ignored accomplishment. For me, i'm happy with what the team did accomplish, especially in Kelowna.

Let's focus on the WCQ's!

[Free kick]

quote:Originally posted by Reza

Despite everything that is said in regards to Twamley, U-23 is going to be challenging area for Canada for the forseeable future. And it's mostly because of the position the players are with respect to their clubs.

Obviously, after two failed runs, Twamley must go. That's just a reality in coaching world, but I am sure anyone who comes into that position would have it tough as well.

Yes, it will tough for every Olympic national team coach. The one saving grace though will be that the next coach will have a deeper pool of talent to draw from. Its kind odd isn't it. You want to see players in this age group do well and score pro contracts for their careers. But on the other hand, if they do too well their clubs will not make them available for this tournament. I seem to recall that wasn't as big a deal in qualifying for 2000 where players like Stalteri were playing in youth teams for the big clubs.

[Canuck Oranje]

Again, as a nation, we need to think strategically about this competition. There have been discussions on this board in the past about a "B" team. We have some very talented young players in Europe that are being relied upon by their respective teams. I think we need to decide that the Olympic team will be a team drawn from North American based players and will play a schedule of North and Central American friendlies between qualifying tournaments. This side could be used to build depth for the full national team. If we go in knowing that this is our goal, we won't have high expectations. Still, I think the degree of disorganization in this team more than cancels out the European-based talent and we would likely be pleasantly surprised with the success of this strategy.

I also think we need to change the coach. Our credibility as a serious soccer nation is at stake if we don't. Let's face it. Every other nation would do that..

[Gian-Luca]

quote:Originally posted by Canuck Oranje

Again, as a nation, we need to think strategically about this competition. There have been discussions on this board in the past about a "B" team. We have some very talented young players in Europe that are being relied upon by their respective teams. I think we need to decide that the Olympic team will be a team drawn from North American based players and will play a schedule of North and Central American friendlies between qualifying tournaments. This side could be used to build depth for the full national team. If we go in knowing that this is our goal, we won't have high expectations. Still, I think the degree of disorganization in this team more than cancels out the European-based talent and we would likely be pleasantly surprised with the success of this strategy.

As long as the FIFA rules remain the same (that clubs don't have to release players for Olympic duty - a rule which wasn't in place for 2000), I would have to agree wholeheartedly with your suggestion. This would allow us for further develop the North American players (and hopefully by 2008 we'll have an improved pro domestic scene) and likely wouldn't interfere as much with World Cup qualifying (which the Olympic tournament is likely always going to do given its timing in relation to qualifying).

I'm thinking that the same thing may happen for the 2005 Gold Cup, which will be played when we are in the middle of the Hex (assuming its a when, & not an "if" but I'll remain positive for now). In the midst of the Hex, it just may not be feasible to have our full senior team playing a whole tourney.

[Andrew W]

quote:Originally posted by Canuck Oranje

Again, as a nation, we need to think strategically about this competition. There have been discussions on this board in the past about a "B" team. We have some very talented young players in Europe that are being relied upon by their respective teams. I think we need to decide that the Olympic team will be a team drawn from North American based players and will play a schedule of North and Central American friendlies between qualifying tournaments. This side could be used to build depth for the full national team. If we go in knowing that this is our goal, we won't have high expectations. Still, I think the degree of disorganization in this team more than cancels out the European-based talent and we would likely be pleasantly surprised with the success of this strategy.

I agree wholeheartedly. If you think of the Euro-based players relied on for this team, all of them are shoe-in senior men's players. They don't need the added pressure of looking to get away from their clubs for the Olympic team. It would ease the club v country trouble that is so prevelent for every Canadian player in Europe.

This plan would also allow us to cap more players at the U-23 level, in particular college and university players who not only might not otherwise get the look-see from national coaches, but also have the short schedule and could benefit from the added fixtures, additional coaching and exposure to a higher level of soccer. In other words, they'd be available.

A well thought-out post C.O.

[Blue and White Army]

ELLIOTT'S OLYMPIC DREAM OVER

Godfrey back at club as Canada Under-23s struggle in Mexico

WatfordFC.co.uk

http://www.watfordfc.premiumtv.co.uk/page/NewsDetail/0,,10400~485640,00.html

Striker Elliott Godfrey returned to the club today after Canada Under-23s were eliminated from the CONCACAF Olympic Qualifying Tournament in Guadalajara, Mexico.

Elliott’s Athens dreams died after the Canucks suffered three straight defeats - losing their opener on February 3 against Honduras 1-0, falling to the USA 2-0 two days later and ended their interest in the competition with a 2-1 defeat to Panama on Saturday.

Elliott, who was born in Toronto after his parents emigrated from Hemel, came off at halftime against Honduras and was an unused sub in the two other games.