MLS Player Development

[Ansem]

17 minutes ago, harrycoyster said:

You want to abandon playing in the USSDA, whose teams have outperformed the top Mexican academies at two straight Dallas Cups , because we got knocked out of Hex contention in 2016 when our academies were only four years into being fully funded. Please.

Go to Big Soccer and see what Americans thinks about their academies. See how fast you're laughed out of that thread by making that connection that academy=senior level.

Have you been under a rock or missed all those American analysts and journalists lashing out at their youth, academy system on how bad they are themselves after missing the world cup???

The US missing the World Cup was like the biggest humility lesson journalists and analysts had to face for a while. There's reports after reports, analysis after analysis where they reached the conclusion that the US development system is mediocre at best and seriously lacking, yet here you are writing that we, Canada & the CSA should be all in in a system that failed the USMNT program????

Get out of here. Seriously

[harrycoyster]

14 minutes ago, Ansem said:

Go to Big Soccer and see what Americans thinks about their academies. See how fast you're laughed out of that thread by making that connection that academy=senior level.

Have you been under a rock or missed all those American analysts and journalists lashing out at their youth, academy system on how bad they are themselves after missing the world cup???

The US missing the World Cup was like the biggest humility lesson journalists and analysts had to face for a while. There's reports after reports, analysis after analysis where they reached the conclusion that the US development system is mediocre at best and seriously lacking, yet here you are writing that we, Canada & the CSA should be all in in a system that failed the USMNT program????

Get out of here. Seriously

I don't know what about this is so hard to understand. Current academy quality doesn't effect current senior talent. Look at the USAs recent youth results, then say the US development system is bad. Top 8 at both youth world cups, a CONCACAF title and two runner-ups, numerous wins over top 10 footballing countries. Hell, I'd pick the US u23 team to beat the US over23 team. Their past two u17 cycles have both been top three in their program's history. 

The USSDA didn't even have u14 levels until 2014, and its still nowhere near its potential, but it's visibly improving every cycle. 

[matty]

Seriously why do you think having an on-field quota is a bad thing for Canadian soccer?

[Ansem]

6 hours ago, harrycoyster said:

I don't know what about this is so hard to understand. Current academy quality doesn't effect current senior talent. Look at the USAs recent youth results, then say the US development system is bad. Top 8 at both youth world cups, a CONCACAF title and two runner-ups, numerous wins over top 10 footballing countries. Hell, I'd pick the US u23 team to beat the US over23 team. Their past two u17 cycles have both been top three in their program's history. 

The USSDA didn't even have u14 levels until 2014, and its still nowhere near its potential, but it's visibly improving every cycle. 

Don't care. Last time I check I wasn't American. We can achieve similar or better results ourselves. It has to be done in house. I'm tired of the failed USSF model. It doesn't work for us, period.

[jpg75]

Honestly i'd be fine with the quota getting bumped to 5 players on the roster with 2 min. on the Sr. roster and 90 minutes x 34 games = 3060 minutes of mandated content. I'm sick of turning on the TV and seeing 0 Canadians on the field (and yes that includes TFC).

[matty]

4 minutes ago, jpg75 said:

Honestly i'd be fine with the quota getting bumped to 5 players on the roster with 2 min. on the Sr. roster and 90 minutes x 34 games = 3060 minutes of mandated content. I'm sick of turning on the TV and seeing 0 Canadians on the field (and yes that includes TFC).

Careful there buddy. If it happens and TFC folds people are gonna blame you

[Dub Narcotic]

15 hours ago, matty said:

 Yea we're killing clubs. Go get fucked by Ben Spencer.

Harry will reply to you when home

Wow, edgy. USL teams were a dicey proposition to start with and quotas made them completely pointless both from a competitive and player development standpoint. In addition, along came the CSA with a plan to compete against both the parent and junior clubs with a whole separate league making the venture even more useless. This was all predicted and discussed, on this board, a few years ago.

Also, Ottawa moved to USL and is still around, Edmonton didn't, and isn't. What could be clearer? Just repeatedly yelling that you are for Canadian development doesn't mean that the actions you take actually help Canadian player development.

[matty]

14 minutes ago, Dub Narcotic said:

Wow, edgy. USL teams were a dicey proposition to start with and quotas made them completely pointless both from a competitive and player development standpoint. In addition, along came the CSA with a plan to compete against both the parent and junior clubs with a whole separate league making the venture even more useless. This was all predicted and discussed, on this board, a few years ago.

Also, Ottawa moved to USL and is still around, Edmonton didn't, and isn't. What could be clearer? Just repeatedly yelling that you are for Canadian development doesn't mean that the actions you take actually help Canadian player development.

Dude your comment was so dumb it doesn't deserve a proper reply. You wanna blame the fanbase, go ahead but don't expect anything you say to be taken seriously.

Here you've made a bunch more dumbass comments.

Teams went forward with it because they saw value in it at the time and ultimately found it to difficult to manage money wise as neither the Caps nor Impact make money at the senior level already. The CPL project, which was already rumoured to be likely at the time the 3 USL teams launched, likely had nothing to do with the teams breaking down. Don't blame the fans, the CSA, quotas or the CPL because Impact and Caps don't make money.

Why is the ideal of a B-team for developing talent not possible?

Canadian development killed FCE and not the $50,000 road trips, rockiness of the NASL and lack of corporate support? Are you for fucking real?

Why are you even on these forums if Canadian development is bad?

[matty]

I don't get this fanbase at all.

When we fail to qualify or perform, the CSA and coaches take the blame and not the 3 teams, that have been active for a 10, 7 and 6 years and don't trust domestic talent to the point they play as few as 1 Canadian a week combined sometimes.

This massive chunk wants us to improve but hates the idea of Canadian talent getting minutes in our league.

[Chad_Impact]

 

[matty]

14 minutes ago, Chad_Impact said:

 

I don't think he knows what a think tank is.

Anywaus the issue isn't solely young players but players in general

[harrycoyster]

On 11/28/2017 at 2:22 PM, matty said:

I don't get this fanbase at all.

When we fail to qualify or perform, the CSA and coaches take the blame and not the 3 teams, that have been active for a 10, 7 and 6 years and don't trust domestic talent to the point they play as few as 1 Canadian a week combined sometimes.

This massive chunk wants us to improve but hates the idea of Canadian talent getting minutes in our league.

The gap in the fanbase on this website is largely between the "Canadian soccer exists to grow the CMNT" group and the "CMNT/local club fans in equal amounts" group. I'd love for the Caps to start 11 Canadian players, but I also want to see the Caps lift an MLS Cup. When the Canadian players get played off the pitch like Teibert and at times Davies did this season...I'm not going to cry foul when they get benched for players who will help the club win. I wonder if anybody who is upset at the Caps letting go of Bustos or McKendry watched them play this year...they weren't all that competitive in USL let alone MLS.

[matty]

3 minutes ago, harrycoyster said:

The gap in the fanbase on this website is largely between the "Canadian soccer exists to grow the CMNT" group and the "CMNT/local club fans in equal amounts" group. I'd love for the Caps to start 11 Canadian players, but I also want to see the Caps lift an MLS Cup. When the Canadian players get played off the pitch like Teibert and at times Davies did this season...I'm not going to cry foul when they get benched for players who will help the club win. I wonder if anybody who is upset at the Caps letting go of Bustos or McKendry watched them play this year...they weren't all that competitive in USL let alone MLS.

See i think both should want their clubs to win with local/domestic talent in key positions like every other nation's league champions

[harrycoyster]

Just now, matty said:

See i think both should want their clubs to win with local/domestic talent in key positions like every other nation's league champions

And my point is that those two things don't regularly go together for the Caps. Any other nation can force a rule league-wide. Unless we can also force Seattle and Portland into starting a player like McKendry or Bustos, Vancouver is at a major disadvantage. 

[matty]

5 minutes ago, harrycoyster said:

And my point is that those two things don't regularly go together for the Caps. Any other nation can force a rule league-wide. Unless we can also force Seattle and Portland into starting a player like McKendry or Bustos, Vancouver is at a major disadvantage. 

The timbres and seattle play and start AmericAns every game. Caps tfc and impact should do the same for Canadians.

Learn to win with Canadians

[harrycoyster]

1 minute ago, matty said:

The timbres and seattle play and start AmericAns every game. Caps tfc and impact should do the same for Canadians.

Learn to win with Canadians

The Caps 100% gave more u23 Canadians minutes than the Timbers or Sounders did u23 Americans this season. When it comes to older players, you can't compare the Canadian player pool with the American one. 

[matty]

8 minutes ago, harrycoyster said:

The Caps 100% gave more u23 Canadians minutes than the Timbers or Sounders did u23 Americans this season. When it comes to older players, you can't compare the Canadian player pool with the American one. 

And i applaud them for that but we are talking about the general pool. No matter age Canadians should be on the pitch

[harrycoyster]

Just now, matty said:

And i applaud them for that but we are talking about the general pool. No matter age Canadians should be on the pitch

We're just talking in circles. You want a bunch of Canadians to play every game for the Caps no matter the consequences and I want the Caps to play as many Canadians as they can and still compete for a championship. I think we both understand each other at this point. 

[matty]

9 minutes ago, harrycoyster said:

We're just talking in circles. You want a bunch of Canadians to play every game for the Caps no matter the consequences and I want the Caps to play as many Canadians as they can and still compete for a championship. I think we both understand each other at this point. 

Agreed but just to state I'm not suggesting a radical number be thrown in asap. I think 2 with an increasing number of maybe a decade

[Ansem]

1 hour ago, harrycoyster said:

We're just talking in circles. You want a bunch of Canadians to play every game for the Caps no matter the consequences and I want the Caps to play as many Canadians as they can and still compete for a championship. I think we both understand each other at this point. 

We see where your priorities lies. With status quo, they haven't gone near a championship, imagine if they played more Canadians during that time. For most of us, the Canadian program improving is more important than 1 team winning a cup that the majority of Canadians could care less about

A Canadian team playing Canadians? Blasphemy

[matty]

Aside from  quota the other thing the CSA should try and get the MLS teams to pursue a NWSL team. I don't think this is something they should be forced into doing but feel it would be a good suggestion especially for MLSE. Caps are already looking into it so good on them.

I know this isn't exactly MLS but I felt like saying it

[1996]

On ‎11‎/‎29‎/‎2017 at 6:44 PM, Ansem said:

We see where your priorities lies. With status quo, they haven't gone near a championship, imagine if they played more Canadians during that time. For most of us, the Canadian program improving is more important than 1 team winning a cup that the majority of Canadians could care less about

A Canadian team playing Canadians? Blasphemy

Haha I just enjoy watching soccer and have been all my life still remember supporting the old NASL going to Toronto Blizzard games in the late 70's and early 80's. Saddest day for me was when the old NASL folded in 1984, it was sad because the Blizzard had a decent following and attendances were between 10 to 20000 a game not bad for soccer in   Toronto in those days and they even got some ok mainstream media attention, remember no internet or anything back then so mainstream media is all we had and of course no internet fan forums to debate everything, it felt kind of big time and even had a good share of Canadian players, Wes McLeod, Gerry Gray, Branko Segota, Robert Iarusci , Bruce Wilson and Bob Lenarduzzi to name a few. I remember also cheering for the Vancouver Whitecaps when they won it all in I think 1979 and the big parade and celebration that followed in Vancouver after they won . When the league folded it was not until TFC in 2007 that club soccer felt big again in my city and going to watch a game felt like a big event again something I was deprived of for 23 years . Therefore, going to games and seeing all these people supporting our local team game in game out is something that I thought I would never see again and I'm enjoying it. Last night at the TFC and Columbus game I was on the edge of my seat just like last years Montreal Toronto second leg game at BMO and when TFC advanced to the second MLS Cup that the majority of Canadians don't care about it felt amazing a great escape from everyday life, the more than 30000 people cared and went crazy for a team playing soccer in a Canadian city that I thought would never happen in my lifetime after the old NASL folded in 1984, the great media coverage this playoff is getting in the city is great. Now yes it would be nice if more Canadian players were on the field but you have to put the best players out there you think can get the job done and this is what it's all about, I'm not going to miss out engaging myself in a sport I love by not following my cities pro team because there are not enough Canadian players and miss out in all the fun that winning entails for a fan. Moreover, life is too short I'm going to enjoy this team and this league as long as I can. Things are changing with Canadian eligibility rules  when it comes to Canadian players coming through academies and being able to play for any US or Canadian MLS teams and eventually you will see more Canadians, but I'm enjoying my team and this league something I was not able to do for a long time before TFC and the MLS came along. This is not popular on this board I understand but I'm enjoying this team and league because it's soccer and I'm in a crazy atmosphere of people going ballistic over a soccer team, not a baseball, hockey or basketball team but soccer something I never thought I would experience again in Canada, yes of course one day it will be nice to be in the stadium and hear that final whistle that puts Canada back in the World Cup but my  club team winning the MLS Cup is the next best thing even though the rest of Canada could not care less!

[Ansem]

People are so quick to dismiss the fact that our National team not qualifying for the Hex and World Cup is a huge factor for people not being interested in soccer all these years.

I'm not dismissing that good MLS clubs have helped but if we qualified for the World Cup consistently like the Americans did, way more people would be into soccer as of now and the idea of a CPL would have been a no brainer years ago.

I respect that some who've witness the old disappointing days are content with their MLS clubs being successful and Canadians status improving in that league... Just seems there's a disconnect withe the younger generation who deems the situation way more urgent. This will always be a source of disagreement and that's ok

[Bison44]

1996

Happy for you and the fact that you are able to participate in TFC's success.  Just remember that their are plenty of us that have the same thoughts and memories of our own CSL teams from the 90's (Winnipeg Fury for me).  Our dreams of having soccer come back will never be in the plans of MLS,NASL or any american controlled league.  And then there is the people that never have had a big time club in a respectable league anywhere near their hometown.  What about them?

I remember my club playing young Canadians and those canadians going on to be contributers to the 2000 gold cup winning team, playing in MLS for years and going on overseas and having nice careers.  While I enjoy MLS like you do we need more, more for the CDN youngsters and more for the CDN fans.  

[BenFisk'sBiggestFan]

Reposting from the Okello thread:

Here is my view on MLS academies. The MLS has improved greatly over the past 5-10 years. Guys like Osorio, Edwards, Kaye, and Tiebert are starters now, and would have been starters back then as well. But the league gets better each year, there is no doubt in that. That makes it difficult to graduate players from the academy, because even if the player improves, the league does too.

“Prospects” like Chapman, Hamilton, Shome, Fraiser, Bustos, and Adekugebe are improving. But i think they are improving at a pace that is similar to how the MLS is improving. As a result, even though they are much better than 5 years ago, they still don’t have starting jobs. The same can be said about our guys in the USL, they are improving with the league. 

Leagues in Europe are not improving at the pace that the MLS or USL are. That makes it difficult to compare the academies here to traditional academies. I think the best way we can test the academies, is by the improvement of our national teams. 

As well, I hope that the CPL can offer more playing time for players like Chapman, Hamilton, and such. Hopefully they can improve with the CPL, but by being starters rather than subs. I hope it can fall right in between the MLS and USL levels, because there is too much of a gap there.