Robert Posted April 12, 2012 Share Posted April 12, 2012 BRIDGING THE GAP Every four years, FIFA stages the World Cup, which, by far and away is the world’s largest sporting competition. More the 200 countries enter the qualifying stages of this championship, which currently takes approximately three years to complete. The 31 countries that prevail in this phase of the competition then join the country hosting the 64-match Final to determine a world champion. The more than 200 countries that enter the World Cup competition must qualify from the 6 geographic bodies of which FIFA is comprised. These consist of 1 association and 5 confederations. Because of these divisions, Canada is obligated to qualify against the countries that comprise the CONCACAF body. CONCACAF qualifying consists of three stages. With the exception of the top 6 CONCACAF ranked countries, all of the remaining CONCACAF countries that enter must compete in a series of matches from which 6 countries advance to play against the top 6 ranked countries that had received a bye. These 12 countries then play a series of semi-final qualifying matches, from which six countries advance to the Hex, the final series of CONCACAF qualifying. The top three of these countries qualify directly to the World Cup Final tournament, while the fourth place country will play another series of matches against a country from another confederation, with that winner also advancing to the World Cup Final tournament. The Football Association of Canada, the predecessor of the current Canadian Soccer Association, entered the World Cup qualifying competition for the first time in 1957. In the intervening years, Canada has managed to qualify for the World Cup Final competition on just one occasion, which was back in 1986. The last time Canada advanced to the final round of CONCACAF qualifying was in 1993. In each of the last four qualifying competitions, Canada was eliminated at the semi-final stage. The primary reason for Canada’s dismal record is the quality of our players. The players chosen to represent Canada consistently fail to make the grade against their CONCACAF contemporaries. Canada’s inability to perform successfully at this level of competition can only be attributed to the lack of opportunities that exist for our players to compete at a sufficiently high enough level of competition on a regular basis. Canada’s talent pool has always lacked depth because of the absence of an integrative domestic soccer structure. Consequently, the CSA always finds itself in the unenviable position of having to scramble to find enough players with the slightest Canadian lineage, who more often than not are playing in an overseas league, and bring such a group together a couple of days before a World Cup qualifying match. History has proven time again that this course of action is futile when it comes to trying to qualify for a World Cup Final tournament, and yet the CSA continues to persist with this sad approach. Is Canadian soccer realizing its fullest potential? Hardly! There is no question that the CSA is confronted with many unique and difficult challenges, but what has it done to rectify these? Right now, there are four professional teams in Canada, and according to figures released by the CSA roughly 900,000 registered amateur players. That is quite a discrepancy. The four professional clubs have no obligation to develop Canadian talent. Their only objective is to field the most competitive line-up they are able to within the budgetary and regulatory constraints imposed on them by the American MLS. Canada’s four professional clubs also compete in the CSA’s Nutrilite/Amway Canadian Championship, with the winners being entitled to the Canadian spot in the lucrative CONCACAF Champions League competition. For the past five years, the CSA has been able to keep the Nutrilite/Amway Canadian Championship a closed competition, refusing amateur clubs the right to participate. Thus, Canadian amateur players are once again denied a chance to compete at the highest possible level in their own country. I wonder how FIFA views such a closed system? Is the CSA missing an opportunity to bring amateur and professional players together, which in the process would only enhance our domestic talent pool? Instead of having just four professional teams developing a handful of Canadian players, there would be hundreds of clubs fielding thousands of Canadian players, who would aspire to compete at the highest level of play in Canada. Sure, there would be many logistical problems to iron-out in bringing amateur and professional clubs together. Amateur players have day jobs, making it difficult for them to compete during the week. Amateur clubs would also need to secure venues capable of accommodate at least 2,000 paying customers. These stadiums would need lighting installations, and security issues would need to be addressed. The list goes on ad infinitum. However, what alternative is there? The plan presented by the CSA that we need to invest most of our resources into a grass roots structure, where the emphasis is on providing qualified coaches for youth players and waiting 15 years before we see any results, hold no water. That only allows those who advocate such an approach to drain the system of 15 year’s worth of income. Coaches do not produce talent, they nurture and help develop talent. The only way a player is going to improve is by playing, playing and playing some more. In this case, the CSA’s responsibility is to provide our youth players with as many playing opportunities as possible. The four professional clubs will undoubtedly voice their opposition at having to play 2 extra matches for the Canadian Championship in addition to their MLS engagements, however, in light of the fact that these same clubs are trying as hard as possible to play as many CONCACAF Champions League matches as they can that argument, too, holds little water. It is the very least that these four professional clubs can give back to the community, in which they earn their livelihoods. Instead of looking for arguments to maintain the closed system that is presently being employed by the CSA, our governing body should be focusing on the ideas that will promote and advance the beautiful game in Canada. By opening the Nutrilite/Amway Canadian Championship to the top amateur and professional clubs in Canada, we may just provide enough opportunities that will allows to qualify for the World Cup Final a little more frequently than we have during the past 55 years. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lattes Posted April 12, 2012 Share Posted April 12, 2012 The real reason we have a lack of talent coming out of Canada is that in any given population there is a percentage of people that have the natural athletic ability to be a professional athlete. We have a strong hockey culture in Canada so that sucks away a lot of that talent. We also live in a culture where many of those kids have economic opportunity to do well in many different professions (engineering, business, medical etc) so sport is not so much a 'way out' (most would agree this is a good thing) Pile on top of that the number of immigrant populations that don't believe sport is a real job and you are left with soccer getting a very small percentage of those that could have been soccer stars. If we REALLY want to succeed internationally in soccer we need to support the sport from a very young age and keep kids in the sport. Show them that they can grow up to be professional soccer players, provide more opportunity to play from a younger age at a high level and try to debunk the myth that it isn't a real job. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Robert Posted April 13, 2012 Author Share Posted April 13, 2012 If we REALLY want to succeed internationally in soccer we need to support the sport from a very young age and keep kids in the sport. Show them that they can grow up to be professional soccer players, provide more opportunity to play from a younger age at a high level and try to debunk the myth that it isn't a real job. Precisely my point! The CSA finally has something of value to work with, "a spot in the CONCACAF Champions League." By allowing the top four amateur clubs in Canada to participate in the Nutrilite/Amway Canadian Championship would open up a pathway for the 900,000 amateur players to have an opportunity to compete at the highest possible level. One way to accomplish this would be to allow the top amateur club from Quebec, Ontario, Alberta and British Columbia to enter the Nutrilite/Amway Candian Championship and compete against the professional club from their respective province. That would keep the total expenses to a minimum, raise the potential for securing local sponsors (did I spell it right?), and give the A-level players in these provinces something worthwhile to aim for. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lattes Posted April 13, 2012 Share Posted April 13, 2012 Fair enough, would you think something along the lines of doing qualifiers to pick 4 amateur/semi-pro teams to compete? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tuscan Posted April 13, 2012 Share Posted April 13, 2012 This has been discussed in a few threads, and I believe many people on the board agree that including the amateur and semi-pro clubs would be a step forward for the Vs Cup. I disagree with the concept that the teams should be the best amateur men's sides, as those sides are generally made up of players that are no longer in a developmental stage. I think it would be a better idea for PDL and CSL sides to get a crack at playing in the Vs Cup against the MLS and NASL sides as then it is the high performance players that have a guided pathway to being able to play in the CCL. Perhaps that isn't the right approach, however, and all teams should be given the opportunity, like how the US Open Cup is formatted. Perhaps it should be that all players, no matter age, are given the opportunity to represent in the Vs Cup, in order to instil the soccer culture we want to see grow in this country? Good discussion, and I wish it was one that the CSA would open up to the public's suggestions and opinions in order to create an atmosphere around the competition that it is truly one for the Canadian soccer fan, one that, while originally created by the Voyageurs, still is directed by the fans of the game in this country. Does anyone else feel like this competition has been taken from this group and closed off? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lattes Posted April 13, 2012 Share Posted April 13, 2012 I like the open idea. Pay your fee and play. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nolando Posted April 14, 2012 Share Posted April 14, 2012 The last time Canada advanced to the final round of CONCACAF qualifying was in 1993. In each of the last four qualifying competitions, Canada was eliminated at the semi-final stage. Maybe I'm misreading this, but Canada played in the final hex leading up to WCQ for France, between March and November 1997. Great commentary in any case. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BearcatSA Posted April 14, 2012 Share Posted April 14, 2012 Maybe I'm misreading this, but Canada played in the final hex leading up to WCQ for France, between March and November 1997. That's correct (but I've trying really hard to erase that viewing experience from my memory!). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
canucklefan Posted April 14, 2012 Share Posted April 14, 2012 The real reason we have a lack of talent coming out of Canada is that in any given population there is a percentage of people that have the natural athletic ability to be a professional athlete. We have a strong hockey culture in Canada so that sucks away a lot of that talent. We also live in a culture where many of those kids have economic opportunity to do well in many different professions (engineering, business, medical etc) so sport is not so much a 'way out' (most would agree this is a good thing) Pile on top of that the number of immigrant populations that don't believe sport is a real job and you are left with soccer getting a very small percentage of those that could have been soccer stars. If we REALLY want to succeed internationally in soccer we need to support the sport from a very young age and keep kids in the sport. Show them that they can grow up to be professional soccer players, provide more opportunity to play from a younger age at a high level and try to debunk the myth that it isn't a real job. I agree with everything but the bold part. Thinking in the G7 countries, everyone does good, Canada being the exception. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
moura1 Posted April 14, 2012 Share Posted April 14, 2012 The key is coaching. Take hockey for example. All levels of hockey in this country has good coaches who understand the game. Soccer not so much. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lattes Posted April 15, 2012 Share Posted April 15, 2012 I agree with everything but the bold part. Thinking in the G7 countries, everyone does good, Canada being the exception. I understand what you are saying, but how many hockey players does France produce? Not many. Their athletic talent goes mostly into soccer players. Here it is the reverse, but in neither country is sport as much a 'way out' as it is in less developed countries. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lattes Posted April 15, 2012 Share Posted April 15, 2012 The key is coaching. Take hockey for example. All levels of hockey in this country has good coaches who understand the game. Soccer not so much. Can't disagree, I am a soccer coach, likely one of the better ones and I honestly don't know that much. How many people here coach? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ThiKu Posted April 15, 2012 Share Posted April 15, 2012 I coach. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Robert Posted April 15, 2012 Author Share Posted April 15, 2012 Fair enough, would you think something along the lines of doing qualifiers to pick 4 amateur/semi-pro teams to compete? Aren’t we getting a little ahead of ourselves if we start a discussion on how to bring the amateur and pro clubs together, before learning if the CSA has any interest in exploring the merrits of abolishing the closed system that is currently employed for the Nutrilite/Amway Canadian Championship? One of the objectives of the CSA, according to its by-laws is: To constantly improve the game of football (soccer) and promote, regulate and control it throughout Canada in the light of fair play and its unifying, educational, cultural and humanitarian values, particularly through youth and development programmes. Is the unifying quality, mentioned in the CSA’s objective, not exactly what we are discussing here? Would the educational quality referred to, not translate into better coaching, which would be a direct by-product if the current soccer-landscape were opened up to all by the CSA. The cultural quality in this case would include both the amateur and professional cultures in Canada. What greater humanitarian value than, equal justice for all, is there? Does not every Canadian clubs, regardless of their professional or amateur status, deserve the right to compete for the Canadian Football Association’s cup? I am sure that FIFA would wholeheartedly endorse such humanitarian values. Is the CSA willing and interested in bringing to the table delegates representing Canada’s amateur and professional soccer communities with the objective to improve the Canadian soccer landscape? If the CSA is genuinely interested in an open system, then what steps are currently being taken, to work towards achieving this goal? If it is the CSA’s intention to retain the current closed system for the Nutrilite/Amway Canadian Championship, then what is the reason for doing so and how does doing so improve and promote the development of soccer in Canada? Whoops! I stand corrected on the last time Canada played in the HEX, which was indeed 1997. It just seems like it was such a long, long time ago for an old junky like me. Having cleaned up almost 11 years ago and written a book since then, I look at what the CSA has accomplishede during that time. In a way my trials and tribulations are very similar to those of the CSA. It’s tough having to watch a loved one suffer so much and know that there is nothing you can do about it until the afflicted one wants to change. That is all I wish for the CSA. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Robert Posted April 16, 2012 Author Share Posted April 16, 2012 All players and fans need dreams. Dreams inspire excellence. They give us the hope and belief that if we work hard, play smart and get a few lucky breaks here and there that maybe, just maybe we can succeed in landing a prized championship. Toronto FC fans recently enjoyed such a dream when their club had a great run in the CONCACAF Champions League, coming up a couple of wins shy of reaching the FIFA World Club Championship, where they could have possibly competed against the likes of a Real Madrid, Barcelona or Bayern Munich. This dream was a result of Toronto FC’s success in the CSA Canadian Championship. By opening up their championship to amateur and semi-pro clubs, the CSA would increase the number of Canadians soccer dreams tenfold. By allowing the best four amateur/semi-pro clubs in Canada to compete against the four professional clubs, and to have these matches televised, would greatly assist these clubs in attracting more sponsorship dollars, which would allow them to obtain quality coaches, offer financial incentives to their players and elevate the level of competitive play amongst Canadian amateur/semi-pro clubs. By implementing an open system, the CSA would also demonstrate that it truly believes in the FIFA/CSA/Provincial Associations pyramid promoted so prominently in recent times. With all of the provincial associations expected to attend the CSA’s annual meeting in early May, there is no better time to begin having discussions on the viability of such a plan and find out which parties are interested in pursuing it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Drew Shaw Posted April 17, 2012 Share Posted April 17, 2012 The real reason we have a lack of talent coming out of Canada is that in any given population there is a percentage of people that have the natural athletic ability to be a professional athlete. Completely untrue. Look at how many medals Australia wins at the Summer Olympics, per capita (not just when they host them). Look at how many national professional sports leagues Australia maintains (soccer, rugby, Australian football, cricket), given 2/3 of our population, AND the disadvantage of large geography (even if it's not as large as ours). Granted Australia doesn't have a massive culturally-dominant neighbour like we do, but their country clearly shows that if you spend money on sport development, you have a society that values participation in sport, and you have a population that will pay to watch local sport, you will create more elite athletes per capita than societies that don't. We also live in a culture where many of those kids have economic opportunity to do well in many different professions (engineering, business, medical etc) so sport is not so much a 'way out' (most would agree this is a good thing). True to a point; but all those kids in Australia with British ancestry aren't competing in sport to escape the very nice suburbs of Melbourne and Sydney, but rather to continue living comfortably in them. Canada's hockey playing pros tend not to be from lower income families, but from normal middle class backgrounds, often with two caring parents. The DO tend to come more from smaller towns per capita than from large cities, from what I can see. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Robert Posted April 19, 2012 Author Share Posted April 19, 2012 Good discussion, and I wish it was one that the CSA would open up to the public's suggestions and opinions in order to create an atmosphere around the competition that it is truly one for the Canadian soccer fan, one that, while originally created by the Voyageurs, still is directed by the fans of the game in this country. Does anyone else feel like this competition has been taken from this group and closed off? I find it interesting how things get quiet on a Voyageur thread when anyone mentions that the CSA should get involved with whatever it is that's being discussed, in this case the expansion of the Voyageurs' Canadian Championship (Don't you guys think that sounds better than the Amway Canadian Championship?). Wouldn't a CSA-appointed liaison on this forum feel like the Voyageurs mattered a little more to the CSA? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Robert Posted April 19, 2012 Author Share Posted April 19, 2012 Fair enough, would you think something along the lines of doing qualifiers to pick 4 amateur/semi-pro teams to compete? Anyways, with or without the CSA's participation, I'll get back to the discussion at hand. One idea for bringing four amateur clubs into the Voyageurs Canadian Championship that might be worth a look would be to have the Vancouver Whitecaps play a quarter-final match-up against the winners of the BCFA's Provincial A Cup. This would undoubted arouse a new level of interest in the game here in BC, especially if the matches are televised. It would also make the qualifying spots alloted to the FVSL, VMSL, VISL and the PCSL more keenly contested for. Such a plan would also open up the possibilities of having upset in the Voyageurs Canadian Championship, which right now only exists if Edmonton knocks off one of the three MLS clubs. Pretty soon the general Canadian public that attends or watches Voyageurs Canadian Championship matches is going to get bored seeing the same couple of clubs vie for the Voyageurs Cup. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tarnado1555362291 Posted April 19, 2012 Share Posted April 19, 2012 This is a fantastic if not obvious direction for our "national " championship. Just look at the buzz created by 3rd div club(amateur players) Quevilly who beat Marseille and Rennes to reach the French cup final vs Lyon. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lattes Posted April 21, 2012 Share Posted April 21, 2012 I am with you Robert, I like the idea of 4 teams getting a 'by' and then top 4 amateur/semi-pro teams play them based on other games played. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Robert Posted April 22, 2012 Author Share Posted April 22, 2012 So if there are a few of us, who share a more present-day vision that allowing 4 amateur/semi-pro teams to qualify for a quater-final berth against the 4 professional clubs in the Amway Canadian Championship would be a positive move in bringing the amateur and professional soccer-landscapes closer together, then how in this era of social-media do we proceed with presenting such a proposal to the CSA? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Redcoatsforever Posted April 23, 2012 Share Posted April 23, 2012 So if there are a few of us, who share a more present-day vision that allowing 4 amateur/semi-pro teams to qualify for a quater-final berth against the 4 professional clubs in the Amway Canadian Championship would be a positive move in bringing the amateur and professional soccer-landscapes closer together, then how in this era of social-media do we proceed with presenting such a proposal to the CSA? I hate myself for suggesting this, but despite the fact that online-petitions are super lame and never seem to achieve much of anything, maybe you could setup an online petition that would automatically e-mail itself to them after a certain date? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gigi riva Posted April 24, 2012 Share Posted April 24, 2012 Awesome thread I would love to see the idae of semi Pro teams compete with the likes of TFC Whitecaps Impact etc I think it will give reconiton to the other leagues I think it will improve the caliber of play for these teams and it will a great for soccer as a whole. But if we need to improve as a Soccer nation we got to start with our young Our U21 U19 U17 have to play more games more tourneys etc Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Robert Posted April 24, 2012 Author Share Posted April 24, 2012 I hate myself for suggesting this, but despite the fact that online-petitions are super lame and never seem to achieve much of anything, maybe you could setup an online petition that would automatically e-mail itself to them after a certain date? Thanks for responding to this thread. Based on our history I know that wasn't easy. I've been wrong about how I express my feelings towards members of the CSA on this board and I'll try to change. It's just that I've been so disappointed and so frustrated for so many years at the performances of our Men's National Team that I lash-out at those in charge of the CSA. Maybe we can bury the hatchet now. In any case, if you don't feel that this issue is too super lame and that it might be worth pursuing then I would sure appreciate it if you could educate this old dinosaur on how automatic e-mailing works, because I would like to draft up an online petition with the input of any one who is interested in contributing to this idea. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
villus Posted April 24, 2012 Share Posted April 24, 2012 Awesome thread I would love to see the idae of semi Pro teams compete with the likes of TFC Whitecaps Impact etc I think it will give reconiton to the other leagues I think it will improve the caliber of play for these teams and it will a great for soccer as a whole. But if we need to improve as a Soccer nation we got to start with our young Our U21 U19 U17 have to play more games more tourneys etc Don't think TFC would beat many semi pro teams right now.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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