Hamilton Expansion Offical Thread

[Drew Shaw]

I wouldn't get too optimistic about the prospects of a Canadian D2. The CSA is merely talking to people, they don't appear to have any plan or the money to back one.

It just doesn't seem that enough Canadian millionaires are willing to start a Canadian loop; there aren't facilities to just "parachute" into; and the CSA either doesn't have the money, or doesn't feel it has the mandate to start a pro league. For now, it looks like all we are going to get are clubs that build upon the US pyramid.

It's disappointing that the CSA doesn't seem willing, or isn't able, to create the environment in which people, municipalities, businesses, and governments will build 5-10,000 seat facilities in Edmonton, Calgary, Hamilton, and Ottawa - the four cities which must be the next ones in Canada to be the homes of professional soccer. If we had facilities in which D2 soccer could be finanicially viable, I don't think that finding ownership groups would be that difficult.

[Keegan]

I wouldn't get too optimistic about the prospects of a Canadian D2. The CSA is merely talking to people, they don't appear to have any plan or the money to back one.

It just doesn't seem that enough Canadian millionaires are willing to start a Canadian loop; there aren't facilities to just "parachute" into; and the CSA either doesn't have the money, or doesn't feel it has the mandate to start a pro league. For now, it looks like all we are going to get are clubs that build upon the US pyramid.

It's disappointing that the CSA doesn't seem willing, or isn't able, to create the environment in which people, municipalities, businesses, and governments will build 5-10,000 seat facilities in Edmonton, Calgary, Hamilton, and Ottawa - the four cities which must be the next ones in Canada to be the homes of professional soccer. If we had facilities in which D2 soccer could be finanicially viable, I don't think that finding ownership groups would be that difficult.

It's unfortunate but at the same time reasonable, if you look at the CHL most facilities are in the 3k-10k range and some teams have trouble breaking even, this is with absolute minimum player salaries and solely bus travel. To basically run an OHL type league country wide WITH salaries would be asking a lot. I think Canada's best bet for the long term is to adopt our hockey development system and adapt it to soccer with no (or minimal) age restrictions.

[brettinhalifax]

Maybe the CSA missed an opportunity with the Women's World Cup. They could have awarded games to cities willing to build a 5,000 seat "practice facility"

[alberta white]

It's disappointing that the CSA doesn't seem willing, or isn't able, to create the environment in which people, municipalities, businesses, and governments will build 5-10,000 seat facilities in Edmonton, Calgary, Hamilton, and Ottawa - the four cities which must be the next ones in Canada to be the homes of professional soccer. If we had facilities in which D2 soccer could be finanicially viable, I don't think that finding ownership groups would be that difficult.

I don't know how much CSA are involved in Edmonton , save for their appearance at the FIFA Stadium Review (WWC-2015) last fall, and the ASA debarcle.

However Mayor Mandel was very animated with regards to Edmonton hosting the Womens Tournament and pushing for a semi-final game. (I think BC Place will get the final). However much of his address to the media was full of legacy talk and finding a Permanent home for FC-Edmonton as part of that.

For those with only a passing intrest in FCE:

The NASL roster for this year puts the majority (approx80%) of Edmontons home games at 2:05pm on a Sunday afternoon. This is almost a defacto admission that the days of Foote field are over. The Bears are the Primary tenant for Foote and Sundays are their property so to speak. Edmonton played on sundays at Foote but it was usually when the bears were on road trips.

Some of us in Edmonton get the feeling that the 'city' is very much involved in favor of facilitating towards the Club, hence it ability to confidently sign up to the Roster as issued. The subtext been that the new home for the club is (probably) a done deal, which some of the ESG (myself included) believe will be confirmed when the new strip is unveiled in full next month.

Edit*** Metro News Post below as confirmation***

http://www.metronews.ca/edmonton/local/article/983062--fc-wants-soccer-stadium

[brettinhalifax]

For those with only a passing intrest in FCE:

The NASL roster for this year puts the majority (approx80%) of Edmontons home games at 2:05pm on a Sunday afternoon. This is almost a defacto admission that the days of Foote field are over. The Bears are the Primary tenant for Foote and Sundays are their property so to speak. Edmonton played on sundays at Foote but it was usually when the bears were on road trips.

Every Bears home game last year was on a Saturday. I'm pretty sure it has always been like that. So I don't think Sunday games will conflict with the UofA football team.

There are only 4 evening home games... July 4, Aug 4, Aug 8 and Sept 12. The sun doesn't set until 10 in July and in early August, the sun doesn't set until 9. So all those games *could* be played without artificial lighting. Only the Sept 12 game would need lights.

So I wonder if they are going to play on the grass field inside the running track at Foote. I believe there are 1,500 seats there but no lights. They could put in temp stands on the far side to get capacity up to 3,000 like the Whitecaps did at Swangard. And when necessary, the games go back to the artificial turf field to use the lights.

Day games, no football lines, grass pitch, but still at the same location with good access.

[alberta white]

Every Bears home game last year was on a Saturday. I'm pretty sure it has always been like that. So I don't think Sunday games will conflict with the UofA football team.

There are only 4 evening home games... July 4, Aug 4, Aug 8 and Sept 12. The sun doesn't set until 10 in July and in early August, the sun doesn't set until 9. So all those games *could* be played without artificial lighting. Only the Sept 12 game would need lights.

So I wonder if they are going to play on the grass field inside the running track at Foote. I believe there are 1,500 seats there but no lights. They could put in temp stands on the far side to get capacity up to 3,000 like the Whitecaps did at Swangard. And when necessary, the games go back to the artificial turf field to use the lights.

Day games, no football lines, grass pitch, but still at the same location with good access.

Word from the ESG boys who are in the know about that field made comment that the grass was WORSE than the pointyball pitch.

[Kik-d-bol]

I'm not from Edmonton, but wouldn't Clarke Field with an added 3K seats be acceptable? Yes, it's got pointyball lines, but so does Foote. And with ~5K seats, you can "aim" for a full house each game. If you fill it constantly, then you can talk about new facilities.

(Sorry to go on about Edmonton in this Hamilton thread )

[alberta white]

I'm not from Edmonton, but wouldn't Clarke Field with an added 3K seats be acceptable? Yes, it's got pointyball lines, but so does Foote. And with ~5K seats, you can "aim" for a full house each game. If you fill it constantly, then you can talk about new facilities.

(Sorry to go on about Edmonton in this Hamilton thread )

Thats pretty much the current scuttlebutt. I think the nature of the field turf is superior and can hae the Lines "Painted out", but don't quote me on that. Clarke is also on the LRT line.

[-Hammer-]

Here is another question I have to ask. Do you think perhaps a NASL team would be better served by Ron Joyce Stadium (5,000 seats, 10,000 with temp seating) then Ivor Wynne 2.0's 25,000? I mean, lets be honest here, except for Montreal, who in NASL has been pulling over 10,000 consistently?

[Drew Shaw]

I don't know how much CSA are involved in Edmonton , save for their appearance at the FIFA Stadium Review (WWC-2015) last fall, and the ASA debarcle.

However Mayor Mandel was very animated with regards to Edmonton hosting the Womens Tournament and pushing for a semi-final game. (I think BC Place will get the final). However much of his address to the media was full of legacy talk and finding a Permanent home for FC-Edmonton as part of that.

Thank you for sharing that. Part of bidding for events should be to create a facility legacy. Temporary situations are okay, but for D2 soccer to thrive we need to have modern facilities. You cannot attract people to a barn, or a bunch of creaky bleachers. You need clean toilets, fast concession, overhead cover, and a facility that people aren't going to complain about, no matter what the sport is. There is competition for people's recreation dollar, and ugly old facilities aren't going to win that competition.

[Drew Shaw]

Here is another question I have to ask. Do you think perhaps a NASL team would be better served by Ron Joyce Stadium (5,000 seats, 10,000 with temp seating) then Ivor Wynne 2.0's 25,000? I mean, lets be honest here, except for Montreal, who in NASL has been pulling over 10,000 consistently?

Absolutely. Casual fans will stay away from empty stadiums, and who can blame them?

Calgary, Edmonton, Hamilton and Ottawa can all support D2 soccer; but in order to succeed they need size-appropriate venues. CFL stadiums are not the answer.

What is the answer are stadiums that hold 10,000 people:

1. Acquire the property.

2. Build a natural turf field with sub-soil heating and good drainage.

3. Build a main stand than holds 4500 people on the west side of the pitch (no sun in the eyes in the evening) and has public toilets under the seats. Build two fantastic change rooms under the stands (home team and visitors). Ensure it has overhead cover for rain, a broadcast booth, and corporate boxes.

4. In the NW corner, build a square building (see Ibrox Stadium, Glasgow), because the corners are crappy anyway to watch from. Put a physio/weight/training room underground. Put concession / merchandise sales on the ground floor. Put coaching rooms on the second floor. Put a game-day clubhouse for the players' families on the top.

5. In the SW corner, build another square building. Put the grounds / maintenance in the basement. Put concession and merchandise on the ground floor. Put the admin offices for a pro soccer team on the second floor. Put a game-day clubhouse for the management and ownership on the the top.

6. On the north side, put in a 500 seat covered endzone for families. No alcohol. Up to 4 children admitted for half price with each adult in that section. Build tomorrow's fans.

7. On the south side, put in a 500 sear covered endzone for the supporters club. Lots of alcohol, banners, and raunchy singing. Build today's fans.

8. Put in covered portable bleachers on the east side of the field to ensure that you have atmosphere on that side too. Charge less for them than you do for the main stand seats.

9. Open for business. When you need to, build a permanent stand on the east side of 4500 seats, and at that time build two more corner buildings in the NE and SE corners. Concession will be needed on that side of the stadium, and in an ideal world the teams in Canada's new semi-pro rugby league, which will be formed when we host the IRB Rugby World Cup, will also need office and coaching space, and change rooms of their own under the East Stand.

Such a facility, in Edmonton, Calgary, Hamilton, and Ottawa, would not only be perfect for pro soccer, it could be used by our soccer national teams (senior, U-20, U-18), W-League soccer, PDL soccer, university soccer, local amateur soccer finals, our national rugby teams, and they might allow for Rugby Canada to resurrect the Rugby Canada Super League with the hope of actually generating revenue from fans.

[Redcoatsforever]

Any stadiums in Canada that are being designed with soccer in mind (they could house any number of summer games, but specifically if soccer is in the cards) should be using this stuff:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Desso_GrassMaster

It's much more ideal for a diverse range of climates like Canada's without the negatives players ascribe to pure fieldturf.

[alberta white]

Any stadiums in Canada that are being designed with soccer in mind (they could house any number of summer games, but specifically if soccer is in the cards) should be using this stuff:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Desso_GrassMaster

It's much more ideal for a diverse range of climates like Canada's without the negatives players ascribe to pure fieldturf.

They indeed do use this stuff at wembly. So if its good Enough for the "Spiritual Home of Football" then why not every where else?

[maccaliam]

^ Do the English teams and players not constantly moan about how bad the pitch is at the new Wembley? I swear I've heard loads of complaints blaming the pitch for fatigue leading to injuries, etc.

[alberta white]

^ Do the English teams and players not constantly moan about how bad the pitch is at the new Wembley? I swear I've heard loads of complaints blaming the pitch for fatigue leading to injuries, etc.

They did indeed, but that was when it was still a grass field! It was tending to stay heavy and over wet to the point where it was constantly been relaid. A lot of the knee calf injuries were been levelled at a combination of the pitch and the modern bladed boots. The Old Wembley was a far more open bowl with a Dog track/ Speedway Oval around it (originally a four lane athletics cinder track). The Enclosed nature of the New Wembley added to the moist british climate effectivley made a totally natural grass pitch untenadble.

Apparently the desso is a whole new ball game.

[-Hammer-]

I really wish I have more information on the Turf that they use at BC Place. Polytan makes it and it's called Bind-pro. It clearly must be able to have the lines changed in short order given the schedule of the Lions and Whitecaps.