hamiltonfan Posted January 31, 2011 Share Posted January 31, 2011 (mods please move to NASL forum) All Hamilton expansion discussion ------------------- Bob Young’s most recent post on the Ticat forum. http://forums.ticats.ca/viewtopic.php?f=5&t=64381&start=30 I'm hoping the NASL can pull through their current challenges, as Soccer is growing rapidly in players, teams, and popularity in North America. As a former minority partner of my friend Selby Wellman's Railhawks in Raleigh I am very aware of the state of flux in professional soccer in North America. Regardless of whether the Hamilton team plays in the MLS, the NASL, the USL, or a Canadian Pro Soccer League - we are committed to bringing Pro Soccer to Hamilton and the proposed new PanAm Stadium. I would love nothing better than to beat the Toronto FC in the Canadian Championship competitions, as Montreal Impact have done: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nutrilite_ ... ampionship We will, in due course, have to have a "name the team contest". I really like a bunch of the suggestions in these forums for names. Although I will not give away which I like best for fear of corrupting the competition. Cheers, Bob. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gator Posted January 31, 2011 Share Posted January 31, 2011 It looks like they've finally sorted out the stadium issue, it gets the final stamp of approval today! It would be great to see the return of pro soccer to the Hammer, I believe there are enough soccer fans around to support a USL or Second Division team and who knows where that can go if it is a huge success! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BringBackTheBlizzard Posted January 31, 2011 Share Posted January 31, 2011 Interesting he mentions MLS. Unfortunately I think Ivor Wynne is too close to BMO Field for that to be likely. From what I remember an expansion bid from Trenton, NJ were told they couldn't get in at one point because of the Metrostars and they would have been considerably further away from the existing franchise that objected. Hope it's Steelers for the name. That has a history that goes back to the ECPSL in the 60s. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gator Posted January 31, 2011 Share Posted January 31, 2011 Interesting he mentions MLS. Unfortunately I think Ivor Wynne is too close to BMO Field for that to be likely. From what I remember an expansion bid from Trenton, NJ were told they couldn't get in at one point because of the Metrostars and they would have been considerably further away from the existing franchise that objected. Hope it's Steelers for the name. That has a history that goes back to the ECPSL in the 60s. We're getting ahead of ourselves with MLS talk but if Hamilton proved to be a viable market I don't think there would be a problem with the proximity to BMO! MLS already has 2 teams in LA and they are talking about another franchise for New York! Hamilton-Toronto would be a great soccer rivalry! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BringBackTheBlizzard Posted January 31, 2011 Share Posted January 31, 2011 Worth bearing in mind that Chivas paid $25 million (?) to the Galaxy/AEG to get around the territorial rights. Going right back to the beginning of the league there has been talk of a second NY team joining eventually so think that's a special case. Bottom line is it would almost certainly cost a lot of money over and above the expansion fee to get a second MLS team into the Golden Horseshoe and I suspect MLSE might be hesitant even if they got offered silly amounts of money due to the possible precedent it would set for their hockey operations. At the risk of having this thread hijacked I don't think there's much doubt that the NASL is the probable eventual destination but Victor Montagliani's 11 month moratorium and the current drama with the USSF makes an official announcement to that effect impossible at this point. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
netsan Posted January 31, 2011 Share Posted January 31, 2011 NASL is the only league that makes sense for Hamilton. The rumors are that Ottawa will join the league in 2013. Montreal and Vancouver may field teams in NASL after they go to MLS... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alberta white Posted February 1, 2011 Share Posted February 1, 2011 NASL is the only league that makes sense for Hamilton. The rumors are that Ottawa will join the league in 2013. Montreal and Vancouver may field teams in NASL after they go to MLS... SPOILER ALERT !! heading into the NASL sanctioning thread here. That and the "too many canadian teams in the NASL, not to have its own Pro League debate" ...again. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BringBackTheBlizzard Posted February 1, 2011 Share Posted February 1, 2011 Definitely a danger of this thread spinning out of control at this point so this is the last time I'll post about the NASL and MLS angle in this context. What people maybe need to bear in mind is that the Saputo family and Greg Kerfoot only get to own 49% of their franchise in an MLS context under single entity unlike the USL/NASL scenario where they have/had 100% ownership. Anything that happens at the Whitecaps and Impact with regards to D2 leagues is, therefore, something that will be determined collectively by all of the MLS ownership groups. All Aaron Davidson of the NASL ever mentions in ICF interview clips (and elsewhere) is a desire on the part of Joey Saputo and Greg Kerfoot to stay involved because there is no guarantee that they will be allowed to do so by their colleagues. Some of what Aaron Davidson has had to say has also sounded a lot more like the AAA baseball sort of scenario of D2 franchises affiliating contractually with specific MLS teams to me than Montreal, Vancouver and TFC reserve teams emerging to play alongside Ottawa, Edmonton and Hamilton. Worth bearing in mind that MLS already has plans for a reserve league of its own from this summer onwards. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Macksam Posted February 2, 2011 Share Posted February 2, 2011 Definitely a danger of this thread spinning out of control at this point so this is the last time I'll post about the NASL and MLS angle in this context. What people maybe need to bear in mind is that the Saputo family and Greg Kerfoot only get to own 49% of their franchise in an MLS context under single entity unlike the USL/NASL scenario where they have/had 100% ownership. Anything that happens at the Whitecaps and Impact with regards to D2 leagues is, therefore, something that will be determined collectively by all of the MLS ownership groups. All Aaron Davidson of the NASL ever mentions in ICF interview clips (and elsewhere) is a desire on the part of Joey Saputo and Greg Kerfoot to stay involved because there is no guarantee that they will be allowed to do so by their colleagues. Some of what Aaron Davidson has had to say has also sounded a lot more like the AAA baseball sort of scenario of D2 franchises affiliating contractually with specific MLS teams to me than Montreal, Vancouver and TFC reserve teams emerging to play alongside Ottawa, Edmonton and Hamilton. Worth bearing in mind that MLS already has plans for a reserve league of its own from this summer onwards. Kerfoot and Saputo can own NASL team if they wish. The other MLS owners have no authority over that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BringBackTheBlizzard Posted February 2, 2011 Share Posted February 2, 2011 You always seem to need points further clarified. That was not the scenario I was discussing immediately above. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alex D Posted February 2, 2011 Share Posted February 2, 2011 I don't see the point of Vancouver and Montreal keeping D2 teams with the MLS reserve league coming back. But why are we talking about this? I can't wait for the Hamilton whatchamacallits of the fillintheblankpro league. My commute will be cut in half and any TFC v Hamilton matches will be intense! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Keegan Posted February 2, 2011 Share Posted February 2, 2011 In an ideal world we'll have Montreal, Vancouver and Toronto in MLS with Ottawa, Hamilton and Edmonton in D2 (whatever that is). Then having the MLS clubs loan their young up and comers to the D2 clubs, that is key to player development and we need more of that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Macksam Posted February 2, 2011 Share Posted February 2, 2011 You always seem to need points further clarified. That was not the scenario I was discussing immediately above. The onus is on you to clarify. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BringBackTheBlizzard Posted February 2, 2011 Share Posted February 2, 2011 There comes a point when someone consistently misinterprets posts that there is no point pursuing things further with them. From now on there will be no second explanation just a short note pointing out that you are going off on some bizarre little tangent of your own. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Macksam Posted February 3, 2011 Share Posted February 3, 2011 Hey, I praise just as much as I critique your work. You have to take the good with the bad BBTB. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
-Hammer- Posted March 1, 2011 Share Posted March 1, 2011 In an ideal world we'll have Montreal, Vancouver and Toronto in MLS with Ottawa, Hamilton and Edmonton in D2 (whatever that is). Then having the MLS clubs loan their young up and comers to the D2 clubs, that is key to player development and we need more of that. As a resident of Hamilton and a Hamilton Bulldogs fan, I have to disagree with this. The AHL affiliate structure is the primary reason why the AHL is widely regarded as a second class league, and frankly is financially infeasible without the support of it's NHL affiliate teams (in all but the few rare cases, such as Hershey & Winnipeg). I also do think this sort of setup would lead to the other NASL teams as unattractive, not only from a fan perspective (having to play 2 tier development teams) but also from a player perspective as there would be fewer chances for up and coming players to move into MLS as a result, given there is no true system of promotion or relegation. Keeping the NASL separate from MLS, occasionally promoting/relegating teams (some teams might fiscally seek relegation to cut costs and MLS clearly wants to expand and make more money) and merely signing players from NASL after their contract commitments to their NASL franchise I think is the best way to go about it. Anyways, I really hope Bob Young brings a NASL team to Hamilton (assuming NASL can continue to weather the storm). I have no doubt you'd pack Ivor Wynne Stadium every time TFC came to town. The Pan-Am committee is really stressing that the venue be completely up to FIFA code and that it offers sports legacy beyond the Ti-Cats. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ThiKu Posted March 2, 2011 Share Posted March 2, 2011 MLS reserve league is pathetic. Something like 10 games and you only play regional rivals (ie, Van will play Seattle, Portland, and the California teams only). What a waste of time. BUT, this is not about MLS reserve league. Kerfoot, Saputo, and MLSE can all buy a D2 team and then loan their players to that. The D2 teams could be a mixture of the loaned-players (with 24-hour recall ability) and a mixture of signings as the D2 team see's fit that would be up for grabs for any team that wants them for a reasonable cost or when the contract runs out on a Bosman. Caps should very seriously consider a D2 team in NASL or USL Pro. PDL can be for the 20 year olds and down, D2 for something like a u23 squad and of course the first team for the best of the best regardless of age. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
-Hammer- Posted March 2, 2011 Share Posted March 2, 2011 MLS reserve league is pathetic. Something like 10 games and you only play regional rivals (ie, Van will play Seattle, Portland, and the California teams only). What a waste of time. BUT, this is not about MLS reserve league. Kerfoot, Saputo, and MLSE can all buy a D2 team and then loan their players to that. The D2 teams could be a mixture of the loaned-players (with 24-hour recall ability) and a mixture of signings as the D2 team see's fit that would be up for grabs for any team that wants them for a reasonable cost or when the contract runs out on a Bosman. Caps should very seriously consider a D2 team in NASL or USL Pro. PDL can be for the 20 year olds and down, D2 for something like a u23 squad and of course the first team for the best of the best regardless of age. That's just it though, right now NASL has an enviable place in Canadian soccer, in that despite being a Division 2 league, still has teams that can play and compete with Canada's MLS teams. That is a is a major draw for any division 2 club, a chance to play against a MLS teams with something actually at stake (instead of just an occasional friendly, of which the lower income NASL developers are at the mercy of the MLS club for that to even that can happen). When you start adding development teams into the mix, it's kind of hard to justify FC Edmonton playing TFC at the Canadian Championship when they normally play TFC Academy, and you aren't exactly going to let both TFC and TFC's Academy team play for the same championship. Until there is a respectable amount of Canadian Division 1 teams (like at least 8) keep NASL and MLS seperate. Imitating the AHL system is a recipe for either NASL's collapse, or NASL's complete dependance on MLS, where any thought of promotion and relegation of teams will be but a dream. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blue and White Army Posted March 2, 2011 Share Posted March 2, 2011 I fully agree with Hammer. D2/D3/D4 should be independent clubs, not an MLS farm system. If the MLS Reserve League isn't good enough, then fix it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Redcoatsforever Posted March 2, 2011 Share Posted March 2, 2011 I fully agree with Hammer. D2/D3/D4 should be independent clubs, not an MLS farm system. If the MLS Reserve League isn't good enough, then fix it. I'll lend my voice to this chorus. The farm system is poorly served by having single owners for several "cousin" clubs, in England they often have lower level clubs signing agreements with higher level clubs to give first-look at any promising young players, but when you can sign a kid, keep him in your organization but playing with the farm team you're hurting competition between clubs in the top league for various players, as well as the players' opportunity. This is what reserve leagues are for, and we should just understand that the reserve division is flawed and needs some tweaking. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Keegan Posted March 2, 2011 Share Posted March 2, 2011 Yes I don't mean a farm system that wouldn't be smart but more like sending two of the younger promising players on loan to the lower division club i.e. TFC sending Henry and Lindsay to Hamilton play first team football its a win-win, Hamilton gets two young quality players and TFC gets them some first team football, its done all over the world but its not a farm team. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
-Hammer- Posted March 3, 2011 Share Posted March 3, 2011 Anyways, my MS-Paint skills are quite poor, but my Avatar should be set to the name I hope happens if a club does come to Hamilton. It would go admirably with the coat of arms of Hamilton and giving that they'd be sharing a facility with the Tiger-Cats, I think it would be awesome if you walked into the stadium and the coat of arms of the city of Hamilton was the first thing you saw. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kevin Posted March 25, 2011 Share Posted March 25, 2011 someone told me that bob young is thinking about calling the team Bobcats Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Redcoatsforever Posted March 25, 2011 Share Posted March 25, 2011 someone told me that bob young is thinking about calling the team Bobcats That wouldn't be the worst thing ever, so long as they had an actual badge and not just a lame charicature of a Bobcat. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kevin Posted March 25, 2011 Share Posted March 25, 2011 That wouldn't be the worst thing ever, so long as they had an actual badge and not just a lame charicature of a Bobcat. they told me that bob wants to name the team after his name and the CFL tiger cats. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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