MLS PREP for Montreal, Should they sign MLS players next season?

[Trax]

My question is simple, Would Montreal signing MLS players next season, help them get ready for 2012. Or might it simply be better to stick to their guns for 2011.

I love these players but except for Matt Jordan who could continue to play as a keeper past 35, I don't see the other in the following list making it to MLS, so why not trade a few of them away and sign some mls players who could implement the work rate they have learned it takes to make it in the MLS.

Wesley Charles 35

Matt Jordan 35

Patrick Leduc 33

Nevio Pizzolitto 34

Eduardo Sebrango 37

Potencial players could be:

Chris Albright NY

Davy Arnaud KS

Julien Baudet Col

Nat Borchers RSL

Conor Casey Col

I think it would be wiser to sign a few MLS players to develop a core dynamic.

On a different topic, I would hope that next year we will have a few exibition matches with the Red Bulls, Washington and Chicago!

[Trident]

because they just cut Charles, Leduc and Sebrango?

[shawn_strat]

There are very few quality MLS players that would relegate themselves to the second division. As of now, Montreal may not even have a league to play in next year.

[RJB]

There are very few quality MLS players that would relegate themselves to the second division.

Agreed. With MLS now up to 18 teams, there is more opportunity than ever, without having to play div. 2.

But if I could play devil's advocate to my own argument, maybe Montreal would be able to offer players a front loaded contract as a way to get around the salary cap.

[Trident]

There are very few quality MLS players that would relegate themselves to the second division. As of now, Montreal may not even have a league to play in next year.

It's unlikely that montreal will pull people down from MLS in 2011, but they'll certainly be an attractive option from those planning to go to MLS in 2011.

Kind of like philippe billy, quality player who decided on Montreal instead of MLS.

[TheKottonmouthed1555362307]

No, I'd use this year to play youth and use the next season for auditions so to speak. see whats out there that you can capitalize on before heading into the expansion draft. No, reason bring on veterans who you know can play at the MLS level, might as well wait to sign these guy when you enter the league.

Use this time to get a long list of candidates from outside the MLS that might be able to contribute in the MLS.

[Trident]

No, I'd use this year to play youth and use the next season for auditions so to speak. see whats out there that you can capitalize on before heading into the expansion draft. No, reason bring on veterans who you know can play at the MLS level, might as well wait to sign these guy when you enter the league.

Use this time to get a long list of candidates from outside the MLS that might be able to contribute in the MLS.

There is only one year, not two. You can't have youth one season and auditions the next. It's goign to be both this year.

The reason to aim for MLS proven players now is to see if they fit in our system.

[Lorne]

The Impact dont need to worry about players this coming season. There will be an entry draft and a league wide draft for young players. The Impact should be retaining several lawyers and accountants to try to figure out the ridiculously complicated, convoluted and forever "evolving" rules for player eligibility and wages.

And, to be a little jaded and sceptical about the MLS, I would say that as the new non-USA team (the third! in a USA only league) and in a league of "parity" and wage restraint Montreal shouldn't and won't have any false ambitions of glory. Montreal's place is as a floormat to the Galaxy and Red Bull of stars in the MLS universe.

My plan is to watch more Ottawa Fury games.

[tmcmurph]

Concentrate on staff (scouting, mls-isms). Use next year as a tryout year for lots of prospective players. There is no substitute for actually seeing someone play in games.

[Trident]

The Impact dont need to worry about players this coming season. There will be an entry draft and a league wide draft for young players. The Impact should be retaining several lawyers and accountants to try to figure out the ridiculously complicated, convoluted and forever "evolving" rules for player eligibility and wages.

And, to be a little jaded and sceptical about the MLS, I would say that as the new non-USA team (the third! in a USA only league) and in a league of "parity" and wage restraint Montreal shouldn't and won't have any false ambitions of glory. Montreal's place is as a floormat to the Galaxy and Red Bull of stars in the MLS universe.

My plan is to watch more Ottawa Fury games.

So basically, you're saying they should depend only on the draft that gives new teams the scraps, and also that they shouldnt spend their first MLS year in existence doling out huge contracts to worldwide known names?

One piece of dumb advice and one case of tell me something I don't know.

[Grizzly]

There are very few quality MLS players that would relegate themselves to the second division. As of now, Montreal may not even have a league to play in next year.

This is ignoring the fact that MLS is still largely a low paying league. The increase in the salary cap has improved things a bit but there are still large numbers of underpaid players in the league, particularly young talented players. I think there are numerous MLS players that the Impact could target as signings who would be willing to exchange one year in division 2 in order to get a better salary than they will be offered from their team which is both trying to fit under the MLS salary cap and with the strange MLS transfer rules will know that the player will have a hard time signing with another MLS team. They will obviously not be the top MLS players but there are many within the $35 000 and $70 000 range who will are better quality and have more potential than what they will get in the expansion draft. The time to sign them is now before they are subject to MLS' transfer rules.

[Alex D]

I would use this year to screw the system and sign a handful of high priced players on front-loaded contracts.

[SteveBeau]

This is ignoring the fact that MLS is still largely a low paying league. The increase in the salary cap has improved things a bit but there are still large numbers of underpaid players in the league, particularly young talented players. I think there are numerous MLS players that the Impact could target as signings who would be willing to exchange one year in division 2 in order to get a better salary than they will be offered from their team which is both trying to fit under the MLS salary cap and with the strange MLS transfer rules will know that the player will have a hard time signing with another MLS team. They will obviously not be the top MLS players but there are many within the $35 000 and $70 000 range who will are better quality and have more potential than what they will get in the expansion draft. The time to sign them is now before they are subject to MLS' transfer rules.

That.

[RS]

This is ignoring the fact that MLS is still largely a low paying league. The increase in the salary cap has improved things a bit but there are still large numbers of underpaid players in the league, particularly young talented players. I think there are numerous MLS players that the Impact could target as signings who would be willing to exchange one year in division 2 in order to get a better salary than they will be offered from their team which is both trying to fit under the MLS salary cap and with the strange MLS transfer rules will know that the player will have a hard time signing with another MLS team. They will obviously not be the top MLS players but there are many within the $35 000 and $70 000 range who will are better quality and have more potential than what they will get in the expansion draft. The time to sign them is now before they are subject to MLS' transfer rules.

I'm not sure where this large pool of underpaid, good young players is, especially when you have to rule out guys who aren't out of contract.

The best young players in MLS are generally signed to Generation adidas contracts, which range from $75,000 at the extreme lower end to $200,000+ for players like Steve Zakuani and Danny Mwanga. Homegrown players start at $36,000, but those are generally 17/18 year old academy grads on their first contract (plus the homegrown contracts just kicked in this year, so most will be on multi-year deals).

Even the underpaid plumbers that Preki seemed to love are journeymen who aren't that young. Guys like Dan Gargan and Adrian Cann are in their late 20's and early 30's, and are well-known to D2 teams. Gargan is even on the record as saying that he dropped down in pay to get back into MLS.

Other than that, you'd have to hope that you could snag a guy like Chris Wondolowski, who won the Golden Boot while making only $48,000 or something like that. Even he's an anomaly, a 27-year-old late bloomer, who is still under contract with MLS for another two years (although San Jose has publicly considered re-negotiating his contract in the offseason). Another example is Stu Holden, who played out a four-year, $36,000 per year contract at Houston to get back into Europe. Houston tried numerous times to re-negotiate his contract, but he shunned it knowing that his strong play had drawn considerable interest from Europe.

I'm not saying there aren't some diamonds in the rough that could be plucked on the promise of a pay raise, but I disagree that there is a large pool of players for the taking.

[Trax]

because they just cut Charles, Leduc and Sebrango?

Funny how I posted that 2 days before they went public with the news.

[Grizzly]

I'm not sure where this large pool of underpaid, good young players is, especially when you have to rule out guys who aren't out of contract.

The best young players in MLS are generally signed to Generation adidas contracts, which range from $75,000 at the extreme lower end to $200,000+ for players like Steve Zakuani and Danny Mwanga. Homegrown players start at $36,000, but those are generally 17/18 year old academy grads on their first contract (plus the homegrown contracts just kicked in this year, so most will be on multi-year deals).

Even the underpaid plumbers that Preki seemed to love are journeymen who aren't that young. Guys like Dan Gargan and Adrian Cann are in their late 20's and early 30's, and are well-known to D2 teams. Gargan is even on the record as saying that he dropped down in pay to get back into MLS.

Other than that, you'd have to hope that you could snag a guy like Chris Wondolowski, who won the Golden Boot while making only $48,000 or something like that. Even he's an anomaly, a 27-year-old late bloomer, who is still under contract with MLS for another two years (although San Jose has publicly considered re-negotiating his contract in the offseason). Another example is Stu Holden, who played out a four-year, $36,000 per year contract at Houston to get back into Europe. Houston tried numerous times to re-negotiate his contract, but he shunned it knowing that his strong play had drawn considerable interest from Europe.

I'm not saying there aren't some diamonds in the rough that could be plucked on the promise of a pay raise, but I disagree that there is a large pool of players for the taking.

If you look at the salary figures of MLS teams, about 1/3 of the players on any team are making a salary in the range I quoted so that is a pretty big pool of low paid players when you times 16 teams by 8 to 12 players. Now obviously some will not be out of contract while others aren't particularly good players. However, even taking those out I think there is a fairly decent number of players that the Impact could be interested in. There are a number of sources of players for the Impact to look at such as good NASL players and international players so at most they might pick up 2 or 3 players from current MLS teams. My point is only that there are a large number of low paid players in the league and that the Impact should be able to find a few worth signing if they do their research properly (not that I trust NDS to do this but hopefully MDS is influencing more and more the player decisions).

There is an issue, however, with whether the league would be pissed off with the Impact doing this as it probably is not a good idea to piss off the league or other teams when you are going to be joining it next year. They might choose to ignore current MLS players for this reason but I don't think it will be from lack of players willing to go down a level for one year in order to get a better salary. So far the league has not reacted negatively to the Caps trying to get around the salary cap with front loaded contracts but at least the Caps did this with international players not domestic. It is with the domestic players that MLS is really trying to make sure that their salaries don't rise very much.

[RS]

If you look at the salary figures of MLS teams, about 1/3 of the players on any team are making a salary in the range I quoted so that is a pretty big pool of low paid players when you times 16 teams by 8 to 12 players. Now obviously some will not be out of contract while others aren't particularly good players. However, even taking those out I think there is a fairly decent number of players that the Impact could be interested in. There are a number of sources of players for the Impact to look at such as good NASL players and international players so at most they might pick up 2 or 3 players from current MLS teams. My point is only that there are a large number of low paid players in the league and that the Impact should be able to find a few worth signing if they do their research properly (not that I trust NDS to do this but hopefully MDS is influencing more and more the player decisions).

There is an issue, however, with whether the league would be pissed off with the Impact doing this as it probably is not a good idea to piss off the league or other teams when you are going to be joining it next year. They might choose to ignore current MLS players for this reason but I don't think it will be from lack of players willing to go down a level for one year in order to get a better salary. So far the league has not reacted negatively to the Caps trying to get around the salary cap with front loaded contracts but at least the Caps did this with international players not domestic. It is with the domestic players that MLS is really trying to make sure that their salaries don't rise very much.

I get what you're saying about not wanting to piss off the league by poaching players, but fortunately soccer harbours such a large, worldwide talent pool that it should be easy to get around it. I'm still unconvinced that giving frontloaded contracts to lower end MLS players is the right way to go about things.

The Seattle (and Vancouver) method is not without precedent in MLS, and its probably the best way to get good, cheap talent outside of the league. And, it's not necessary to limit the search to internationals.

For reference, TFC had Jim Brennan around as the "face" of the team for a full year prior to a ball being kicked. I'm pretty sure he didn't sit around in Toronto for a year without getting paid...

(You guys already have a local "face" to the team in Ali Gerba, so that part of the equation is already there, I suppose.)

[Grizzly]

I get what you're saying about not wanting to piss off the league by poaching players, but fortunately soccer harbours such a large, worldwide talent pool that it should be easy to get around it. I'm still unconvinced that giving frontloaded contracts to lower end MLS players is the right way to go about things.

I am not advocating giving frontloaded contracts to lower end MLS players at all. If we were to do frontloaded contracts (a risky venture in many respects) it would certainly be for good international players who aren't DP level but whom we might have trouble fitting in to the salary cap.

What I am saying is that MLS has a lot of underpaid domestic players because they have been able to stifle a free labour market for these players by making it very difficult for players to change teams even if they are out of contract. Other leagues in North America have salary caps but none of them have been able to do this. I imagine it is only the single structure nature of MLS that allows them to do this legally and even so, if a player were to bring this to court I am not sure the current rules would stand (though it would probably take several years of litigation to get sorted out). The other thing that allows them to do this is that most leagues in the world have rules in regard to employing foreigners and the only competition in USA/Canada for these players is with the wealthier NASL teams all of who have or will join MLS. So basically the players do not have a free labour market in MLS but nowhere else to go. The advantage to this is it keeps down salaries and costs for the league which adds to its stability, the disadvantage is that if players are given a better paying option elsewhere they will take it so this is not good for the playing level to some extent. I think if there were a blanket gift of EU passports to every domestic player in MLS you would see a mass exodus of players going to make more money in Europe even if it meant playing in the German 3rd or 4th divisions and equivalent leagues elsewhere.

To bring this back to the Impact, at the lower salary range, offering a player 20 or 30 thousand more a year can be a big boost in salary. Also success in MLS is often dependent on how many good players you have at the 80 to 120 thousand dollar range. There is a group of players currently in MLS that are decent performers but underpaid. Once the Impact officially join MLS, these players will not be available to them because they will be subject to the same transfer rules as other MLS teams (the Impact MLS franchise may already be subject to these rules in which case my point is moot). You can be sure that the low salaried players who are playing well will definitely not be offered by any team in the expansion draft so if they are able, now would be the time for the Impact to go after these players.

[Slamo]

The Caps did it with Chuimiento, Rochat, Dunfield and potentially Arnoux depending on what the league decides. I would say if the league doesn't close the loophole then Montreal would be crazy not to exploit it. Sign a few guys 2011 say 8 years 10 million with 9 million paid in the first year with say payments spread out over 8 years!!

I'd think the Caps have burnt that bridge and I imagine the league is pissed a bit...but you gotta do what's best for your club.

Obviously, I want the Caps to be the best of the League, but I think it is important that Montreal and TFC be in the 2-5 range for the growth of the sport and it will be more satisfying winning if the other two are worth beating.