VPjr Posted June 28, 2008 Share Posted June 28, 2008 my father was born in Italy and growing up I always cheered for Italy in any footie tournament. I was there on St. Clair in '82 with the throng of people celebrating that World Cup victory. These days, when it comes to international soccer, I've adopted the role of neutral observer for any game not involving Canada. For my dad's sake, I'm happy for him if Italy does well in a tournament because it makes him very happy but I personally don't care either way whether they win or lose. If I'm totally honest, I am actually a little happy when they lose because its such a dagger in the heart of these Italo-Canadians who live and die with Azzurri (but who could not give a damn about the fate of the national team of the country in which they live). I was pleased to see this particular edition of the Azzurri get knocked out because I personally think Donadoni is a bit of a fraud as a coach at this level. I hated his team selections, I hated his tactics and how those tactical decisions wasted the talents of players like Toni. That being said, I suspect Italy will fare much better with Marcelo Lippi at the helm again and anyone who writes them off for 2010 is fooling themselves. I don't care if they succeed or fail at the next World Cup but as a longtime admirer of Lippi (yes...i support Juve), I'm quite certain the Italian side will not perform as embarrassingly as they did at this tournament. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
italianboy Posted June 29, 2008 Share Posted June 29, 2008 personally, canada first, italy second. any world cup that canada isn't in I'll support the azzurri, but everything changes if canada gets in Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
amacpher Posted July 2, 2008 Share Posted July 2, 2008 quote:Originally posted by Juby This thread seems odd, cause I tend to hate the germans (nothing bothers me more then the fact that they have never lost PK's, and I hate PK's). But as this euro progressed I got more noticably annoyed with Italy, First off, to say there's a conspiracy hot off a world cup win is the most pathetic thing I have ever heard, it seriously makes whoever said it look like a retard. Then in their second game, in like the last half hour, they started diving everytime they touched the ball, they were diving to the point that they were ruining actual goal scoring opportunities. It was pathetic, maybe the players were just doing it so the fans could pretend one or two were real so they could say 'we should have won' in their deluded heads. Germans may have invented the dive but the Italians perfected it. I didn't know that the Italians were crying about a conspiracy in these Euros. Were they really? I can't understand why since they needed help from Holland just to get to the knockout stage. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Juby Posted July 2, 2008 Share Posted July 2, 2008 quote:Originally posted by amacpher Germans may have invented the dive but the Italians perfected it. I didn't know that the Italians were crying about a conspiracy in these Euros. Were they really? I can't understand why since they needed help from Holland just to get to the knockout stage. not all italians, but it was a big story after game two and before game three, a bunch of retards were running there mouths extra loud. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pulsar Posted July 4, 2008 Share Posted July 4, 2008 As i currently live in Milano let me fill everyone in on the attitude of italian football here. Everyone was extremely happy that the italians were eliminated. I mean all italians except the young ones. They played horrible, boring football and we know it. As i am sure most of you know, Donadoni was fired and replace by Lippi. Personally i think italian football is returning to the attacking ways of '82 AND!! '06. What happend at euro '08 was a gift in the eyes of Italian football fans. No one here likes the diving.. period! To throw my hat in the ring....it's the french ( think henri against spain) who are horrible for diving and the argentinians who are actually taught to dive - heard that one through the grape vine. Serie A teams are scoring more than ever, thanks in part to the influx of foreigners. I think when a country is so entrenched in tradition they lose sight and it's hard to progress. BUT with young players like Balotelli, De Silvestri and Cassano, italian football is looking good if not great. Great things are expected from the italians always and i think that is why the fans are pompous - in this case when i talk about the fans i mean the ones with italian heritage - that live outside Italy. I love the the azzurri and cheer them on every time but i am not stupid enough to think that the country that gave my parents a great life takes precedent over italy. People need something to identify with and this obviously spills over into football. It seems football divides Canada an it is our duty as Voyageurs to take this out of Canadian football. While i will always cheer for italy, i would sacrafice my left nut to see Canada at the world cup and if need be sacrafice the other to see them smash the azzurri. Man...i am itching to go home....3 weeks...3 looooooooonnnnngggg weeks..... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
masster Posted July 6, 2008 Share Posted July 6, 2008 Being in Austria and Switzerland for the Euros, I noticed a great dislike amongst locals for Turkey. People were quite upset when they won and extremely happy when they were eliminated. For those that dont know Turks are the largest immigrant population in many parts of those countries. My guess as to why many Canadians hate Italians around World/Euro cup time is for much the same reason. Italians are probably the largest immigrant population (amongst soocer loving nations) in much of Canada, and these numbers can be very annoying for locals. I can also understand how people do not like the fact that all of these Italians just seem to appear out of thin air every 2 years, however I do not buy this argument. When else are they suppossed to appear? Are there not bandwagon Canuck, Flame and Hab fans that show up every year around playoff time? Where are these people during the regular season. This happens in every sport. I also dont buy the argument that people hate Italy because they are a bunch of divers that play boring football. Firstly, diving is common amongst many countries. In fact, if I had to rank the worst diving countries in the Euros, Italy just makes my top 5 behind who I thought were the two biggest culprits, Portugal and Turkey. As for the boring football argument, who ever brings this up obviously did not watch World Cup 2006. I will admit that Italy were not fun to watch against Spain, but they were an outclassed inferior team trying to hang around and sneak out a win. They didnt play that way against Holland and Romania. All in all, I think these arguments are used by people to mask their racist feelings about Italians. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Juby Posted July 7, 2008 Share Posted July 7, 2008 wait...I'm supposedly racist because I don't like that the italians gave off the best demonstration of diving this tournament, just cause diving happens I shouldn't dislike Italy for being the prime example of it? too bad, divings for cheaters. I'm supposedly racist because I don't like bandwagoners, and Italy did become the new brazil of bandwagoners, just cause it happens doesn't mean I should like bandwagoners, really? I don't respect fickleness, period. I'm supposedly racist because I find the idea of the WC winners crying conspiracy exasperatingly annoying, if not completely outragous. I never said anything about Italians in general but when a team has an extra cast of whiners and phonies and is diving on the pitch, guareenteed I'll cheer for the underdog. btw, racism against Italians? what is this, 1952? next thing you know someone's gonna bust out polack jokes and we'll start calling black people 'negros'. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
loyola Posted July 7, 2008 Share Posted July 7, 2008 quote:Originally posted by Juby wait...I'm supposedly racist because I don't like that the italians gave off the best demonstration of diving this tournament, just cause diving happens I shouldn't dislike Italy for being the prime example of it? too bad, divings for cheaters. I'm supposedly racist because I don't like bandwagoners, and Italy did become the new brazil of bandwagoners, just cause it happens doesn't mean I should like bandwagoners, really? I don't respect fickleness, period. I'm supposedly racist because I find the idea of the WC winners crying conspiracy exasperatingly annoying, if not completely outragous. I never said anything about Italians in general but when a team has an extra cast of whiners and phonies and is diving on the pitch, guareenteed I'll cheer for the underdog. btw, racism against Italians? what is this, 1952? next thing you know someone's gonna bust out polack jokes and we'll start calling black people 'negros'. I don't think it's racist but the fact remain that you can find worst offenders for every points you're bringing. Why are you only talking about Italy when bringing the conspiracy point when some french players and coaches did the same? The same apply for diving, Italy are far from being the worst offenders lately. It's funny reading the members of this forum complaining about diving when our own players are doing the same. I'm sorry to say it but in that 2004 Guatemala game Josh Simpson spent all his time diving. When you take into consideration that every team have divers (yes, even France, the Netherlands and Germany have some), I just find it weird that only a few countries are getting the blame. So yes, it sounds weird to hear about those mighthy Italians divers when they are far from being the worst offenders. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Juby Posted July 7, 2008 Share Posted July 7, 2008 well all I can say to that is I only heard the italian conspiracy, Italy stood out in my mind for diving mostly cause of the last half hour of game 2 (seriously, like 8 dives) and I still think Italy is (since 2006) and will be THE bandwagon nation till 2010. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Soju Posted July 7, 2008 Share Posted July 7, 2008 I don't think criticizing a team in the way its been done in this thread could make anyone seem racist. When people say Italians, surely they're referring to the XI guys + bench of that team, and not Italians as a race of people. No one is talking about Italians diving in the grocery store queue or cheating on their taxes. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pulsar Posted July 7, 2008 Share Posted July 7, 2008 quote:Originally posted by Soju I don't think criticizing a team in the way its been done in this thread could make anyone seem racist. When people say Italians, surely they're referring to the XI guys + bench of that team, and not Italians as a race of people. No one is talking about Italians diving in the grocery store queue or cheating on their taxes. I gots to nix you on the cheating on their taxes....italy is probably the worst country for that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
amacpher Posted July 7, 2008 Share Posted July 7, 2008 quote:Originally posted by masster Being in Austria and Switzerland for the Euros, I noticed a great dislike amongst locals for Turkey. People were quite upset when they won and extremely happy when they were eliminated. For those that dont know Turks are the largest immigrant population in many parts of those countries. My guess as to why many Canadians hate Italians around World/Euro cup time is for much the same reason. Italians are probably the largest immigrant population (amongst soocer loving nations) in much of Canada, and these numbers can be very annoying for locals. I can also understand how people do not like the fact that all of these Italians just seem to appear out of thin air every 2 years, however I do not buy this argument. When else are they suppossed to appear? Are there not bandwagon Canuck, Flame and Hab fans that show up every year around playoff time? Where are these people during the regular season. This happens in every sport. I also dont buy the argument that people hate Italy because they are a bunch of divers that play boring football. Firstly, diving is common amongst many countries. In fact, if I had to rank the worst diving countries in the Euros, Italy just makes my top 5 behind who I thought were the two biggest culprits, Portugal and Turkey. As for the boring football argument, who ever brings this up obviously did not watch World Cup 2006. I will admit that Italy were not fun to watch against Spain, but they were an outclassed inferior team trying to hang around and sneak out a win. They didnt play that way against Holland and Romania. All in all, I think these arguments are used by people to mask their racist feelings about Italians. Nonsense! Guys, this is not rocket science. Italy may not dive more than Portugal and Turkey, but they a FAR more successful than those other 2 (until recently) so of course they are going to generate more hate for their diving. And Portugal also gets routinely critisized for their diving, especially since 2004 when they've become a real threat to win each major int'l tournament. Moldova may be big divers too, but nobody cares... As for Italy's style of play, World Cup 2006 isn't going to wash away 50 years of playing boring, defensive and dirty football. It doesn't even make-up for the spitting incident in Euro 2004. [8)] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jpg75 Posted July 7, 2008 Share Posted July 7, 2008 quote:Originally posted by Soju I don't think criticizing a team in the way its been done in this thread could make anyone seem racist. When people say Italians, surely they're referring to the XI guys + bench of that team, and not Italians as a race of people. No one is talking about Italians diving in the grocery store queue or cheating on their taxes. Serie A is pretty bad for diving too. I remember a few years back there was some controversy over Totti bragging about winning a game for Roma after having drawn a last minute PK by diving. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
loyola Posted July 7, 2008 Share Posted July 7, 2008 quote:Originally posted by amacpher Nonsense! Guys, this is not rocket science. Italy may not dive more than Portugal and Turkey, but they a FAR more successful than those other 2 (until recently) so of course they are going to generate more hate for their diving. And Portugal also gets routinely critisized for their diving, especially since 2004 when they've become a real threat to win each major int'l tournament. Moldova may be big divers too, but nobody cares... As for Italy's style of play, World Cup 2006 isn't going to wash away 50 years of playing boring, defensive and dirty football. It doesn't even make-up for the spitting incident in Euro 2004. [8)] What does France have to do to make-up for that Zidane incident in 2006? Win 4 world cups in a row? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
amacpher Posted July 7, 2008 Share Posted July 7, 2008 quote:Originally posted by loyola What does France have to do to make-up for that Zidane incident in 2006? Win 4 world cups in a row? Firstly, your implication seems to be that head-butting someone in the chest makes you far more hated than spitting on someone. I'd disagree. Secondly, you miss my point. If France win 4 world cups in-a-row, their style of play will only be picked apart and critisized even more by non-French people. Also, although Italy weren't boring in WC 2006, lets not pretend they played beautiful football. The only classic involving them was the Germany match, but you could pretty much say that about most Germany matches in the last 2 tournaments. The Australia, USA and France matches also stand-out, but only for the wrong reasons. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
loyola Posted July 7, 2008 Share Posted July 7, 2008 quote:Originally posted by amacpher Firstly, your implication seems to be that head-butting someone in the chest makes you far more hated than spitting on someone. I'd disagree. Secondly, you miss my point. If France win 4 world cups in-a-row, their style of play will only be picked apart and critisized even more by non-French people. Also, although Italy weren't boring in WC 2006, lets not pretend they played beautiful football. The only classic involving them was the Germany match, but you could pretty much say that about most Germany matches in the last 2 tournaments. The Australia, USA and France matches also stand-out, but only for the wrong reasons. USA vs Italy was a pretty entertaining game IMO with Kasey Keller stealing the show. If it had been Totti who had head-butted Zidane in 2006 final I,m pretty sure your example would've been the head-butting not the spitting incident. IMO, someone who act violently like Zidane did should received as much hate as Totti for spitting on Poulsen. But Zidane received mostly loved (and the FIFA tournament MVP....) from fans and the media who made Materazzi the guilty party....that's a bit ironic when not even the bias italians medias have ever suggested that Poulsen made a racist remark toward Totti to explain the spitting. But the french media did to defend Zizou.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
loyola Posted July 7, 2008 Share Posted July 7, 2008 quote:Originally posted by amacpher Firstly, your implication seems to be that head-butting someone in the chest makes you far more hated than spitting on someone. I'd disagree. Secondly, you miss my point. If France win 4 world cups in-a-row, their style of play will only be picked apart and critisized even more by non-French people. Also, although Italy weren't boring in WC 2006, lets not pretend they played beautiful football. The only classic involving them was the Germany match, but you could pretty much say that about most Germany matches in the last 2 tournaments. The Australia, USA and France matches also stand-out, but only for the wrong reasons. USA vs Italy was a pretty entertaining game IMO with Kasey Keller stealing the show. If it had been Totti who had head-butted Zidane in 2006 final I,m pretty sure your example would've been the head-butting not the spitting incident. IMO, someone who act violently like Zidane did should received as much hate as Totti for spitting on Poulsen. But Zidane received mostly loved (and the FIFA tournament MVP....) from fans and the media who made Materazzi the guilty party....that's a bit ironic when not even the bias italians medias have ever suggested that Poulsen made a racist remark toward Totti to explain the spitting. But the french media did to defend Zizou.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
amacpher Posted July 7, 2008 Share Posted July 7, 2008 quote:Originally posted by loyola USA vs Italy was a pretty entertaining game IMO with Kasey Keller stealing the show. If it had been Totti who had head-butted Zidane in 2006 final I,m pretty sure your example would've been the head-butting not the spitting incident. IMO, someone who act violently like Zidane did should received as much hate as Totti for spitting on Poulsen. Well, earlier you were implying that the head-butt is much worse. I can't be bothered to defend the French any more as I don't like them either. One of the reasons why Euro 2008 might've been the best tournament ever is that these 2 teams played virtually no role apart from getting creamed a couple of times (which everyone loved to see). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
loyola Posted July 7, 2008 Share Posted July 7, 2008 quote:Originally posted by amacpher Well, earlier you were implying that the head-butt is much worse. I can't be bothered to defend the French any more as I don't like them either. One of the reasons why Euro 2008 might've been the best tournament ever is that these 2 teams played virtually no role apart from getting creamed a couple of times (which everyone loved to see). this was to show the stupidity of your comment. It's an isolated incident and I don't think France nor Italy has anything to do to make us forget about those incidents. The reality is that you just can't admit that Italy played a good overall WC in 2006, you just can't. Relying on past performances and pointing to the Totti incident shows that you don't have much to say about this. As for France and Italy not playing a role in this tournament being the reason for this tournament being the "best ever" I'm not really sure if Euro 2004 and WC 2002 "boringness" could be explain with those 2 teams being eliminated so early in the competition? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
amacpher Posted July 7, 2008 Share Posted July 7, 2008 quote:Originally posted by loyola this was to show the stupidity of your comment. It's an isolated incident and I don't think France nor Italy has anything to do to make us forget about those incidents. The reality is that you just can't admit that Italy played a good overall WC in 2006, you just can't. Relying on past performances and pointing to the Totti incident shows that you don't have much to say about this. I didn’t say Italy didn’t play well. I just think the extent of their positive/open play in WC 2006 is exaggerated by some posters in this forum and certainly doesn’t make-up for catenaccio which they practiced for decades. You say I keep bringing-up past performances, but this thread is about "why people hate Italy" so history is everything in this context (besides you and other Italy apologists keep bringing-up WC 2006 which is history too and shouldn't carry any more weight than Italy's painful performances in WC 1990, WC 1994, WC 1998, Euro 2000, WC 2002 and Euro 2004, IMO) And sorry, but extra-curricular things like spitting, head-butting and match-fixing does put a scar on national teams, even if that may not be totally fair. quote: As for France and Italy not playing a role in this tournament being the reason for this tournament being the "best ever" I'm not really sure if Euro 2004 and WC 2002 "boringness" could be explain with those 2 teams being eliminated so early in the competition? LOL... You fail to read. I said it was one of the reasons. Euro 2004 might not have been a classic, but it could have been worse had entertaining sides like the Czech Republic and Portugal not made it to the late rounds. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jpg75 Posted July 7, 2008 Share Posted July 7, 2008 ^ I can't believe we (the fans) were robbed of a Czech-Portugal final in '04 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vancouver Fan Posted July 8, 2008 Share Posted July 8, 2008 Holy S*** I can't believe how some people can just go on an on about their dislike for a certain country. I think it's plain jealousy. At the end of the day you see want you want to see and nothing will change your mind. It's hilarious how some peoples mission in life is to discredit the Italians. amacpher I don't get you man. Who do you support? Anyone? It's Ok you can tell us.We won't laugh. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
amacpher Posted July 8, 2008 Share Posted July 8, 2008 quote:Originally posted by Vancouver Fan Holy S*** I can't believe how some people can just go on an on about their dislike for a certain country. I think it's plain jealousy. At the end of the day you see want you want to see and nothing will change your mind. If I was jealous of someone, it would be Brasil or Germany. Heck, even Spain and Holland have done more in the Euros than Italy ever has! Italy are just very defensive and boring. It's not really even debatable. Look at their results. When was the last time they were involved in a 3-2, 4-1, 4-2 match in a major tournament? 1982? quote:amacpher I don't get you man. Who do you support? Anyone? It's Ok you can tell us.We won't laugh. Obviously when you typed that you forgot you were Canadian. Probably still in "Italian-mode" due to the recently completed Euros. Well, shake it off. We got 22 months of misery to endure before you can pretend to be Italian again. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vancouver Fan Posted July 8, 2008 Share Posted July 8, 2008 Pretend? I was born there,have citizenship and vote. I'm also Canadian and proud to support their football and other sports teams whether they play exciting, boring or otherwise. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
loyola Posted July 8, 2008 Share Posted July 8, 2008 quote:Originally posted by amacpher If I was jealous of someone, it would be Brasil or Germany. Heck, even Spain and Holland have done more in the Euros than Italy ever has! Italy are just very defensive and boring. It's not really even debatable. Look at their results. When was the last time they were involved in a 3-2, 4-1, 4-2 match in a major tournament? 1982? Obviously when you typed that you forgot you were Canadian. Probably still in "Italian-mode" due to the recently completed Euros. Well, shake it off. We got 22 months of misery to endure before you can pretend to be Italian again. Ok, I figured out what kind of soccer fans you are...in fact you're a basketball fan you need some points to appreciate a game. By your logic when Italy scores 3-4 goals (like in that 2006 WC 1/4) they should've let their opponent scores 2 just to make it an appealing scoreline. Yes, that should be so nice to watch. I just don't think being well-organized at the back means your playing catenaccio or are a boring defensive side. Of course Italy isn't Brazil or Argentina but still Italy has been involved in some pretty good high quality games over the years. But if you prefer watching a Brazil vs CR (4-2, 1st round in 2002 WC) where there's virtually no defensive from both teams it's your choice, but that's not an high quality game but their a high number of goals. BTW, Italy I prefer quality over quantity but I respect your desire of watching a basketball game. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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