The Beaver Posted September 13, 2007 Share Posted September 13, 2007 For those of you not blinded by regionalism, just ignore the silly BS posts about how Edmonton would have packed Commonwealth etc. Yes, we are all disappointed to see such a poor turnout, but let's be realistic. Edmonton--and Vancouver--are not any better, and the opportunity to build something significant in TO is huge. This was only the first step. We will build from last night's success. Come on Albertans, it is okay to like Canada. It is okay to be part of this country. It is okay if you aren't the golden children of Canada. You are still important in your own rights. Have some self-confidence. When you feel confident--truly--then you need not be so jealous of Toronto or "the East." Mind you, I live in Paradise, where Greg Kerfoot's Soccer specific stadium is the last piece in the puzzle that will make us the new centre of the world. [sunny with big blue sky today.] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Massive Attack Posted September 13, 2007 Share Posted September 13, 2007 quote:Originally posted by JB_Tito If I were you I would carefully choose the words you using, if you think that 95% are poseurs than you must be on some cheap crack or glue. You just insulted all RPB and U Sector boys for one reason only, you don’t have season ticket. Thanks to the poseurs south stands were full and rocking last night. Because of poseurs MLS will give Vancouver or Montreal franchise one day. I know deep down you would like to be with us cheering for TFC, well there is a waiting list with 5000 people on it; put your name and wait, till then show some respect for boys and girls that giving 100% no matter is it TFC or CMNT. I have season tickets you douchebag. Come say hello to me on Saturday. I'll be in my seat in Section 113, Row 6, Seat 1. I admit that I may have over-exaggerated the number, maybe its close to 85%. But I stand by the poseur statement. Maybe if you had an ounce of a brain you'd realize that the last people I was attacking here are the RPB and the U-Sector. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rawdz Posted September 13, 2007 Share Posted September 13, 2007 quote:Originally posted by Massive Attack I have season tickets you douchebag. Come say hello to me on Saturday. I'll be in my seat in Section 113, Row 6, Seat 1. I admit that I may have over-exaggerated the number, maybe its close to 85%. But I stand by the poseur statement. Maybe if you had an ounce of a brain you'd realize that the last people I was attacking here are the RPB and the U-Sector. And you think I should be banned? Hey mod, my "name calling and personal attacks" are okay, but personal threats are cool. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gkhs Posted September 13, 2007 Share Posted September 13, 2007 quote:Originally posted by rawdz And you think I should be banned? Hey mod, my "name calling and personal attacks" are okay, but personal threats are cool. I'll second that. 8 posts, in every single one picking a fight. Go, and get your baiting-loser jollies elsewhere. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Massive Attack Posted September 13, 2007 Share Posted September 13, 2007 rawdz, if you can't see the difference between calling some anonymous internet user a harmless bad name and calling a public figure a child molester, there is no hope for you. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VPjr Posted September 13, 2007 Share Posted September 13, 2007 Massive Attack...I don't want to pick a fight but I don't believe the 85% poseur figure. I think its unfair to call anyone who pays for season tickets a poseur just because they might not be as passionate about TFC or the MNT as I am (or you or JB Tito or anyone else). I know of quite a few hardcore TFC fans / hardcore soccer fans, who would likely want to be at last night's game, who could not come last night or simply did not know about the game. That's a fact of life. I think it's premature to underestimate the quality of soccer fans in the GTA. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gkhs Posted September 13, 2007 Share Posted September 13, 2007 quote:Originally posted by VPjr Massive Attack...I don't want to pick a fight but I don't believe the 85% poseur figure. I think its unfair to call anyone who pays for season tickets a poseur just because they might not be as passionate about TFC or the MNT as I am (or you or JB Tito or anyone else). I know of quite a few hardcore TFC fans / hardcore soccer fans, who would likely want to be at last night's game, who could not come last night or simply did not know about the game. That's a fact of life. I think it's premature to underestimate the quality of soccer fans in the GTA. I was the one who initially suggested the 85% figure...that was my grudging, honest appraisal of the fans around me in sections outside of the supporters. I have had seats all over the stadium, and a solid majority of the people around me could not be described as footy fans of any quality, let alone high quality. They tend to arrive late, get drunk and belligerent quickly, act bored, send texts attesting to there boredom, and ultimately yell, 'BORING' every 45 seconds from minute 55 on. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Ed Posted September 13, 2007 Share Posted September 13, 2007 quote:Originally posted by The Beaver For those of you not blinded by regionalism, just ignore the silly BS posts about how Edmonton would have packed Commonwealth etc. Yes, we are all disappointed to see such a poor turnout, but let's be realistic. Edmonton--and Vancouver--are not any better, and the opportunity to build something significant in TO is huge. This was only the first step. We will build from last night's success. Come on Albertans, it is okay to like Canada. It is okay to be part of this country. It is okay if you aren't the golden children of Canada. You are still important in your own rights. Have some self-confidence. When you feel confident--truly--then you need not be so jealous of Toronto or "the East." Mind you, I live in Paradise, where Greg Kerfoot's Soccer specific stadium is the last piece in the puzzle that will make us the new centre of the world. [sunny with big blue sky today.] The vast majority of the posts in this thread are not from Albertans and certainly haven't seen any BS or not posts about packing Commonwealth, just one stating the facts on very early starts in Edmonton during the U20's. Asking why the new 'home of our nats' cannot get over 10,000 to the first senior game in many years seems to be a pretty legitimate question, not any reason to slam Cdn soccer supporters from Alberta. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Massive Attack Posted September 13, 2007 Share Posted September 13, 2007 quote:Originally posted by VPjr Massive Attack...I don't want to pick a fight but I don't believe the 85% poseur figure. I think its unfair to call anyone who pays for season tickets a poseur just because they might not be as passionate about TFC or the MNT as I am (or you or JB Tito or anyone else). I know of quite a few hardcore TFC fans / hardcore soccer fans, who would likely want to be at last night's game, who could not come last night or simply did not know about the game. That's a fact of life. I think it's premature to underestimate the quality of soccer fans in the GTA. Although I might come across as an optimistic person on this forum sometimes, generally, I am a highly cynical and pessimistic person. I think it has something to do with my Italian blood (I find Italians te be highly paranoid and cynical, I think it has to do with coming from a corrupt country, Italians are not very trusting, but this is another rant for another thread/forum). Basically, I've seen all the optimism that was generated in this city with the first TFC home game. And this hype and optimism continued right up to the U-20s. Then I went to the Chile-Canada game. I felt sick to my stomach that day (and it was Canada Day!). I also attended the Argentina-Poland U-20 match at BMO. Then yesterday's match fermented my views on this. Right now, the people of Toronto support TFC. My own personal opinion, due to the most recent facts, are that this support has a heavy poseur sway to it. Being a Canadian national team fan still hasn't crossed the divide that TFC has managed too. This is my own theory on the type of person who attends TFC games at BMO Field. I'm not asking anyone to agree with it. I'm just stating my opinion. And until anyone shows me something to sway me, I'm going to stick with this theory. Sure, maybe I'm being too cynical about this, but that is my nature. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VPjr Posted September 13, 2007 Share Posted September 13, 2007 quote:Originally posted by Massive Attack Sure, may I'm being too cynical about this, but that is my nature. I'm cool with that. My dad's italian too. I know all about italian pessimism. I just don't share it. gkhs, I've sat in 4 different sections at BMO this year. I've never experienced what you have described but if you've seen it, then I understand where your pessimism comes from. I have a lot of hope for Toronto fans. We need to take a long term view. Toronto soccer fans didn't have anything to cheer about for years and despite the fun we've had with TFC this year, the team hasn't given us much to celebrate in over a month. We're human...it's hard to maintain the momentum when you know your club's season is essentially down the toilet. I suggest we all try to stay positive. The kind of passion on display last night and all season for TFC will continue to rub off. That's why I think it is so important to get kids out to the game (but not necessarily in the Supporters sections). I had members of my youth team at the game last night and the kids had a blast and a couple asked their parent's to bring them back. Those kids are the future and they need to be cultivated. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gkhs Posted September 13, 2007 Share Posted September 13, 2007 I think my point is simply that the number of people who actually consider themselves active, interested, invested fans of the CMNT is likely lower than we tend to think. I think last nights crowd is an accurate indicator of the number of 'real' NT fans in the GTA, since this game wasn't widely advertised, and was fairly expensive, these were the people willing to go out of their way to see Canada play. I have no excuse for my pessimism aside from experience. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VPjr Posted September 13, 2007 Share Posted September 13, 2007 quote:Originally posted by gkhs I think last nights crowd is an accurate indicator of the number of 'real' NT fans in the GTA, since this game wasn't widely advertised, and was fairly expensive, these were the people willing to go out of their way to see Canada play. On this we agree 100%. I think there are legitimately about 10,000 real National Team fans in Toronto. However, the more they play here and if there is some success, there will be more. I wonder what the crowd would have been like if the game would have been played last Saturday at 3:30pm. My guess is that we would have drawn at least 2000-3000 more people but that's only a guess. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aussoccerfan Posted September 13, 2007 Share Posted September 13, 2007 quote:Originally posted by aussoccerfan how many people were wearing black ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gkhs Posted September 13, 2007 Share Posted September 13, 2007 quote:Originally posted by VPjr I wonder what the crowd would have been like if the game would have been played last Saturday at 3:30pm. My guess is that we would have drawn at least 2000-3000 more people but that's only a guess. I know non-GTA folks will recoil in disgust at this suggestion, but, is there really no way to piggyback these games on TFC events and ST packages? Next season especially, with so many home fixtures likely. Also, who has priority over BMO Field scheduling, TFC or CMNT? Will TFC have to schedule around international match dates? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gian-Luca Posted September 13, 2007 Share Posted September 13, 2007 quote:Originally posted by Massive Attack Although I might come across as an optimistic person on this forum sometimes, generally, I am a highly cynical and pessimistic person. I think it has something to do with my Italian blood (I find Italians te be highly paranoid and cynical, I think it has to do with coming from a corrupt country, Italians are not very trusting, but this is another rant for another thread/forum). Hmmm....I must be the exception that proves the rule. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gian-Luca Posted September 13, 2007 Share Posted September 13, 2007 quote:Originally posted by VPjr I know of quite a few hardcore TFC fans / hardcore soccer fans, who would likely want to be at last night's game, who could not come last night or simply did not know about the game. That's a fact of life. Hardcore soccer fans maybe....but hardcore TFC fans? I have heard time believing that any hardcore TFC fan wouldn't have heard about this game in some manner, unless they don't have a computer & no friends with one. Or simply just no friends. I'm not a season ticket holder (technically speaking) and even I got two emails from TFC promoting the Canada game. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gian-Luca Posted September 13, 2007 Share Posted September 13, 2007 quote:Originally posted by VPjr I wonder what the crowd would have been like if the game would have been played last Saturday at 3:30pm. My guess is that we would have drawn at least 2000-3000 more people but that's only a guess. I would say that is a conservative estimate, especially if they did decide (because it was a Saturday afternoon) to rope in some youth teams. From my experience the ticket prices didn't turn people off because they had already concluded that the couldn't make the Wednesday night start time, making the issue of price moot. In some cases these were not just casual sporting/soccer fans, but people who regularly watch Canada play on tv. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VPjr Posted September 13, 2007 Share Posted September 13, 2007 quote:Originally posted by Gian-Luca Hardcore soccer fans maybe....but hardcore TFC fans? I have heard time believing that any hardcore TFC fan wouldn't have heard about this game in some manner, unless they don't have a computer & no friends with one. Or simply just no friends. I'm not a season ticket holder (technically speaking) and even I got two emails from TFC promoting the Canada game. I'm not saying that there are thousands of people who support TFC that did not know about the game but I know of at least 1 TFC supporter who didn't know about it. I have a good friend who shares season tickets with co-worker. The co-worker gets all the emails from TFC and never told my buddy about the game as he had been travelling extensively. My friend is not a forum reader, nor does he listen to sports radio. I called him Monday to ask him if he wanted to use 1 pair of my tickets and he was shocked to hear about the game. He could not make it due to other committments but if not, he would have been there. By the way, my buddy coaches youth soccer and also plays senior men's soccer in Richmond Hill and the first thing out of his mouth was "why has my club not said anything about this game". His club bought a whack of tickets for the the TFC v Aston Villa game and took a group of players and coaches to that game...why didn't they do the same for our national team? I do know of quite a few TFC supporters who simply could not make it on a Wednesday night. There are at least 8 people at my work who would have come if the game was on a weekend. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ag futbol Posted September 13, 2007 Share Posted September 13, 2007 quote:Originally posted by Marc I admire your chutzpah, your vision, and agree on principle, but unfortuntely at this time it does not take into account the realities of both the budgeting process and the politics (both big P and small p) in which it would have to occur. In a better future, perhaps! Well I admire you taking a principaled stand on this one. In the end we both want the same thing. I guess we'll have to agree to disagree on the projections and what they would mean for the budgeting process. You may have a better knowledge of the actual system than i do, my knowledge is more applied to regular business than NGO and NFPO. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DoyleG Posted September 13, 2007 Share Posted September 13, 2007 quote:Originally posted by Ed The vast majority of the posts in this thread are not from Albertans and certainly haven't seen any BS or not posts about packing Commonwealth, just one stating the facts on very early starts in Edmonton during the U20's. Asking why the new 'home of our nats' cannot get over 10,000 to the first senior game in many years seems to be a pretty legitimate question, not any reason to slam Cdn soccer supporters from Alberta. Not a legitimate question when all that TO bragging comes to naught. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gian-Luca Posted September 13, 2007 Share Posted September 13, 2007 quote:Originally posted by VPjr I have a good friend who shares season tickets with co-worker. The co-worker gets all the emails from TFC and never told my buddy about the game as he had been travelling extensively. My friend is not a forum reader, nor does he listen to sports radio. Okay, but these situations are not all that common in this day & age - and if he's been travelling, doesn't visit the websites & doesn't listen to sports radio, it's difficult to blame the promotion that was actually done. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RealGooner Posted September 13, 2007 Share Posted September 13, 2007 quote:Originally posted by gkhs these were the people willing to go out of their way to see Canada play. Did we mention the TTC closed the Habourfront streetcar from Union to BMO Field? So hundreds if not thousands arrived late like me because we had to to take an alternative streetcar route which involved transfering onto another bus to BMO. Considering I paid just $15 for my ticket, I could have said 'F@#k it' turned around and went home. So yeah, alot of us REALLY had to make an effort just to friggen get there. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PunjabiOil Posted September 13, 2007 Share Posted September 13, 2007 quote:Originally posted by Free kick One more point that i forgot to make. in the year that we won the gold cup ( ie.: 2000), the consequence of that performance at the turnstiles for the next games played in canada were as follows: Toronto in Apr or My 2000: sellout of 8K at Varsity ( ie.: varsity west side stands were closed down) Edmonton versus TNT: over 20K Edmonton drew 26,000 on a pouring rainy day. Toronto did sell out Varsity, but a lot of fans were cheering for Mexico. Not that it is relevant to the original point - the attendance last night was just not good. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PunjabiOil Posted September 13, 2007 Share Posted September 13, 2007 quote:Originally posted by Free kick One more point that i forgot to make. in the year that we won the gold cup ( ie.: 2000), the consequence of that performance at the turnstiles for the next games played in canada were as follows: Toronto in Apr or My 2000: sellout of 8K at Varsity ( ie.: varsity west side stands were closed down) Edmonton versus TNT: over 20K Edmonton drew 26,000 on a pouring rainy day. Toronto did sell out Varsity, but a lot of fans were cheering for Mexico. Not that it is relevant to the original point - the attendance last night was just not good. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Jeffery S. Posted September 13, 2007 Share Posted September 13, 2007 quote:Originally posted by VPjr Massive Attack...I don't want to pick a fight but I don't believe the 85% poseur figure. I think its unfair to call anyone who pays for season tickets a poseur just because they might not be as passionate about TFC or the MNT as I am (or you or JB Tito or anyone else). I know of quite a few hardcore TFC fans / hardcore soccer fans, who would likely want to be at last night's game, who could not come last night or simply did not know about the game. That's a fact of life. I think it's premature to underestimate the quality of soccer fans in the GTA. I don't think it is at all correct to think a hard core club fan will necessarily be interested in the national team. And not in any country. In fact you will find that it is just as normal that a guy in Paris who does not follow PSG will go to see France. A lot of England fans too will have their club but will be particularly passionate about England, even more than their club (not a majority but a chunk). This occurs in Spain too, people who do not go to see the clubs, or are not really into them, will go see the national team. And of course the reverse occurs, not everyone has the connection to the national side either. Of course we are not there yet, at least not for the men (for sure we have greater following of the women, potentially and historically, as a national side). I don't think Canada has become so refined in terms of market segments that you get a chunk of super Canada supporters in places like TO or Vancouver who are not regularly in the stadium to see the local side, but it may happen some day. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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