What's with the terrible attendance?

[Free kick]

quote:Originally posted by Massive Attack

Its easy to complain when you have no solutions.

Isn't that so true.

[Gian-Luca]

quote:Originally posted by MediaGuy

The kid was clearly clueless, but it speaks to the biggest problem the CMNT has when it comes to drawing people. Many people think it sucks and will never be convinced otherwise. The only way to get more people out is to win more.

Or to send them youtube highlights to show them how good we are nowadays.

I'm not joking, it worked for me in getting people to show up on Wednesday. Youtube is our friend.

[Niagara Hammer]

I do have very thick skin. I have three older sisters .

My point was I do not believe that 85% of TFC attendees are posers. That means they you are calling every one except 5,000 people at each home game a poser (85% of 20000), odds on favour, I was one of them.

Unless you define a fan differently then I do. They pay there money to see the game. They buy the merchandise. They may even cheer. Just because they do not support MNT the same ,they are not posers.

Club/= Country. My Father in law was born in Scotland moved to England at 9 moved to Canada at 39. He cheers for all three, usually Scotland before England, and usually Canada before the others. However, we have not sat down together to watch Canada play either, yet.

Back on topic

So far the general agreement is;

The CSA could have marketed the game better.

The price point for mid and upper range tickets was too high.

South stands price was excellent.

They has been some complaint that 7 pm start is poor, but latter would be equally bad as it was a school night.

[boban1]

quote:Originally posted by Niagara Hammer

Back on topic

So far the general agreement is;

The CSA could have marketed the game better.

The price point for mid and upper range tickets was too high.

South stands price was excellent.

They has been some complaint that 7 pm start is poor, but latter would be equally bad as it was a school night.

On the whole I agree but I would just revise and say the upper range tickets were GROSSLY too high.

Also, having the game start later would not be equally as bad as 7PM. You first have to get butts in the seats. If one has to leave early because of school, so be it. The thing is in Europe games commonly start at 8 PM midweek, heck I believe in Spain they even start at 9PM. Soccer takes at most 2 hrs to play. The Leafs midweek games for the vast majority start at 7:30 and those games don't stop until 10 PM or later. Thus starting at 7:30 PM would have the game end at 9:30 which ain't too late for the kids. But 8PM kick off would be ideal IMHO.

[VPjr]

quote:Originally posted by Massive Attack

I still don't buy the poor marketing complaints. My other passion beside being a Canadian Soccer nerd is music. Sometimes I miss some of my favourite bands when they come to town. I don't blame these bands for poor marketing, I blame myself for not paying better attention.

Massive Attack, I want you as a customer for the products I sell at my day job.

Based on your statement, it's the responsibility of my consumers to find out for themselves about my new products, even though my competition is getting out there and marketing directly to them. I'd love to cut most of my $500K per year marketing budget and just tell customers "I'm here, find me". If I could pull off doing the bare minimum marketing and still make the same level of profit that we do right now, believe me, I'd do it. Unfortunately, that's a recipe for bankruptcy...sorry dude.

You don't have to spend a lot of money to make a big splash and make a large number of people aware of what you are selling. You just need to be smart and you do have to put some effort into it. Niagara Hammer is right when he says that the CSA does not follow the most basic marketing and sales principles:

a) know your customer

ask for their business

Why doesn't the CSA follow those principles? Because they aren't marketers. I've been involved in consumer marketing for 10 years. I've seen half assed marketing campaigns and this was a perfect example of half assed marketing. They did the bare minimum. They took the easy route. This is the type of campaign you get when you give your marketing and promotion people a small budget and few other resources.

It's not good enough to simply do a medium sized radio buy on Toronto Sports/Talk stations and a few small ads in local papers. TFC fans come from all over the GTA and beyond. You need to market in all the communities where your customers reside and you need to ensure that you make it easy for the people to buy what you are selling. That's why you don't schedule the game at 7pm. People from Niagara, Peel, Halton, York and Durham Regions (where lots of TFC comes from) will be fighting disgusting traffic to get downtown at that hour. Start the game at 8pm and immediately it's more feasible for people to attend. That's simple "know your customer" marketing. Only the most committed will fight the traffic and the hassles. The less committed will stay home and watch on TV. I would prefer that those less committed fans were at the stadium because they will cheer if they are in the seats but we won't hear their voices if they are sitting at home on the couch.

Did the CSA make any effort to solicit ticket sales in a more personal manner?

Were there any in-studio player appearances on radio or TV to promote the game? I didn't see or hear any.

Did the CSA try to arrange public media events to promote the game on Monday or Tuesday...Nope.

Did they try to offer incentives to clubs to buy blocks of tickets to resell to members? I'm told that there were not.

We can't be snobs and believe that only the most committed fans belong at the game. You don't need to fill a stadium with hardcore supporters to make an event successful. You just need to fill it. I sell products to the automotive enthusiast market. Do you think I care if my customers are hardcore enthusiasts or Johnny come lately's? Nope...They are all customers in my eyes. I cater more to the hardcore because they are the core customer but there are a lot more casual enthusiasts in my business that hardcore enthusiasts so I need their business to survive. The CSA definitely doesn't care who buys the tickets as long as they are sold. Too bad they didn't do anything but market to the hardcore enthusiast market.

Professional Soccer is not yet a mainstream sport...Hockey is, baseball is (to a much lesser degree), Basketball is (also to a much lesser degree). Those guys can get away with simply running ads on mainstream media (Radio, TV and newspapers) but even they make the effort to do tons of community outreach. They do the boring, mind-numbing work you need to do in order to build a fan base. You have to earn people's hard earned money. TFC was brilliant with the Pub Crawl idea. It was simple, cheap and it connected them to their new fans.

How hard would it have been to host a meet and greet with MNT players at a local bar or restaurant on Monday night? IMO, it would have been pretty easy to do, would not cost much and would build enormous goodwill. They could have had a deal that if you buy 8 tickets, you get a pass for 2 to attend a meet and greet. That would have been a winner no doubt. Hell, I would have paid for the opportunity to meet our MNT players.

I wish the CSA would actually ask the fans our opinion (and maybe solicit our help) instead of arrogantly assuming they know best. I ask my customers for their opinions every day. How else will I know what they need? It's called being market driven.

I honestly believe that if the CSA paid Voyageurs to market this game for them, that we would do a better job than was done.

[Massive Attack]

quote:Originally posted by VPjr

Massive Attack, I want you as a customer for the products I sell at my day job...

Actually, I'm the worst person to market to, because I already know what I like and I'm not easily swayed/fooled by marketing campaigns. Plus, I generally hate the marketing industry because I can often see through their ads. To add to that, I will be turned off by products if their marketing is annoying. In the internet age, I cut out the middle-man.

I never said that the CSA marketing was perfect. But does the CSA even have the money and/or man power to create the more viral marketing campaign that you speak of? I doubt it.

I also agree that the start time sucked. Plus the prices were out of whack.

I think people are harping on my poseur comments too much. I was calling out TFC fans specifically. There is a larger base for the CSA to go after than just TFC fans.

And like I keep repeating, I doubt that even the worlds greatest marketing campaign would have had a significant impact on the attendance. Until MNT games have the same cache as TFC games, we will continue to have these attendance debates. We still aren't 'cool' enough.

[VPjr]

quote:Originally posted by Massive Attack

Actually, I'm the worst person to market to, because I already know what I like and I'm not easily swayed/fooled by marketing campaigns. Plus, I generally hate the marketing industry because I can often see through their ads. To add to that, I will be turned off by products if their marketing is annoying. In the internet age, I cut out the middle-man.

I never said that the CSA marketing was perfect. But does the CSA even have the money and/or man power to create the more viral marketing campaign that you speak of? I doubt it.

I also agree that the start time sucked. Plus the prices were out of whack.

I think people are harping on my poseur comments too much. I was calling out TFC fans specifically. There is a larger base for the CSA to go after than just TFC fans.

And like I keep repeating, I doubt that even the worlds greatest marketing campaign would have had a significant impact on the attendance. Until MNT games have the same cache as TFC games, we will continue to have these attendance debates. We still aren't 'cool' enough.

Marketing doesn't have to be about trying to "wow" someone or try to sell them something they don't want. In my business, we don't use splashy ads to get people's attention. We use of ad budget to inform the widest number of people as possible about we have to offer. If the product is good and people are aware of it, they will buy it. It doesn't take alot of money to do it. Believe me, the most effective marketing campaigns are often the cheapest. And even if you have to spend a litte money, sometimes you need to spend money to make money. All in all, I just believe the CSA and the people who did the marketing are completely out of touch and simply did not put in the effort to make it successful.

You are correct that MNT matches need to develop a little buzz so people think it's something worthwhile. However, because so few casual fans came to the game, little buzz was created. The hardcore fans were there but they would be there for almost any game. The story wasn't how well the team played or how vocal the Southside was...the story was that there were less than 10,000 butts in the seats. So, now, the CSA's marketing people need to start over again and start anew. They could have started building the buzz with Wednesday's game but they failed.

[JB_Tito]

Is it $14 mil a year enough for decent marketing.

[Massive Attack]

quote:Originally posted by JB_Tito

Is it $14 mil a year enough for decent marketing.

I'm confused, you want the CSA to use their entire budget on marketing?

That has to be a pretty dumb idea.

quote:Originally posted by VPjr

Marketing doesn't have to be about trying to "wow" someone or try to sell them something they don't want. In my business, we don't use splashy ads to get people's attention. We use of ad budget to inform the widest number of people as possible about we have to offer. If the product is good and people are aware of it, they will buy it. It doesn't take alot of money to do it. Believe me, the most effective marketing campaigns are often the cheapest. And even if you have to spend a litte money, sometimes you need to spend money to make money. All in all, I just believe the CSA and the people who did the marketing are completely out of touch and simply did not put in the effort to make it successful.

You are correct that MNT matches need to develop a little buzz so people think it's something worthwhile. However, because so few casual fans came to the game, little buzz was created. The hardcore fans were there but they would be there for almost any game. The story wasn't how well the team played or how vocal the Southside was...the story was that there were less than 10,000 butts in the seats. So, now, the CSA's marketing people need to start over again and start anew. They could have started building the buzz with Wednesday's game but they failed.

But the CSA is selling a product that does need a 'wow' factor to get butts in the seats. Just getting the word out that a game is occurring is not enough. A marketing campaign just to get the word out would have been fleeting, imo.

The real mistake that occurred here, and you touched upon it earlier, was not getting more youth teams involved. I blame the CSA in conjunction with the OSA and local clubs for not making this happen. I'm not saying the kids have to sit with us in the south end, but the ball really was dropped here.

[VPjr]

quote:Originally posted by Massive Attack

But the CSA is selling a product that does need a 'wow' factor to get butts in the seats. Just getting the word out that a game is occurring is not enough. A marketing campaign just to get the word out would have been fleeting, imo.

I disagree. The MNT has no buzz because they don't play very much and they aren't all that successful in general when they do play. If these guys had won the Gold Cup, there would have been more buzz. If the u20's hadn't bombed out of their WC, there would have been more buzz. With such a disadvantage, you need to spend your time and money appealing to the casual soccer fans just as much as to the hardcore fans. The hardcore fans know that this is a good team and they will come as long as the price is right. The casual fans only know that we have not made the World Cup in 21 years. You need to do the hard work, the boring work, to get the casual fan to give you a shot. They simply did not do it.

I think we've beaten this horse to death. We agree that the CSA did not do a great job. Hopefully they will next time. Maybe they'll hire better people to help them. Maybe they'll ask us for help.

[JB_Tito]

quote:Originally posted by Massive Attack

I'm confused, you want the CSA to use their entire budget on marketing?

That has to be a pretty dumb idea.

[

Confused ??

[JB_Tito]

Qoute from toronto_bhoy on RPB forum;

The CSA just expects everyone else to do the work for them…letters were sent to coaches??? What…if your Daddy doesn't buy you a ticket your cut??? The assholes at the CSA have done great all to endear the fans, junior players or media…but they'll take your $60 bucks!

What was the CSA group rate for junior teams? Half price for minors with an adult ticket…hell…you can lift your kid over the turnsile if you have a brief…

I was at a house league field day on Saturday with over 1000 players and probably twice as many spectators…3000 potential butts…where were the coupons? That was one of 60 or 70 house league field days and select tournaments played over the last couple of weeks…almost a quarter million potential customers!!! By the first of September the attendance number was in…they knew the place was going to be less than half full!!! Fill the place…build a fan base for the NMT!!! Paper BMO with potential repeats…I bought four, 3 for people that normally wouldn't have bothered…they greatin' loved it!!! Before we got to the car they were asking "When's the next one!"

It seems to most of people have the same opinion when it comes to CSA marketing.

SACK the CSA!!

[ag futbol]

I really have to echo what some other people have said about ultimately the CSA is responsible for marketing the product, whether we're talking about Edmonton for the U-20's or Toronto for this friendly. The comment above on utilizing the youth system to sell tickets is bang on. Sending a letter to coaches about the game is about as compelling sell as getting super saver coupons in the mail (which i throw in the garbage without opening). One of the many channels we should have used is getting out there to the youth soccer community (not through coaches) to get buys off reasonably priced tickets.

[Guest HamiltonSteelers]

The marketing is a great place to start.

How many TFC fans know:

- that Canada actually WON the Gold Cup not that long ago

- that Canada shoulda got to the final of this past one

- where to buy a Canada replica shirt

- where to buy a Canada scarf

- when the last game was

- when the next game is

Ask those same TFC fans questions about TFC and they know 2 places to buy jerseys, scarves and know we're playing RSL tomorrow having been in a goal drought of over 7 weeks.

Their bare bones marketing, the website, is absolute GARBAGE. Top to bottom. They've got the sponsors right, but NO REASON TO VISIT THE SITE EVER. /golfclap

You cannot tell me that most of the TFC casuals OPTED NOT to come to the game, but just DIDN'T KNOW.

We got 20,000 for Canada B U-20s/Argentina C U-20s. Free tickets or not, they showed up en masse (and got a fantastic game... just like last night).

And the YouTube/CMNT idea is BRILLIANT!!!!

[Trillium]

The CSA has more then enough money to do Marketing if they had a half brain to use some new ideas... so lets see....

1. Why are there no three feet by six feet posters of the hottest player on the MNT..why no stars created ?

2. Why no marking link up with major socer clubs in the GTA giving them a cut of ticket sales.

3. Why buy radio on sports talk radio and ignore other buys which could work better..for example a buy in the GTA movie houses for the three weeks before the game..with a hot video ..of the MNT players...

4. Who was putting up game posters in every corner store in Toronto ? that means going to each store with sticky gum and the posters and asking to put them in the door... and yes the local guy will do it..even better you give him a ticket on a raffle draw ..to have top tickets to the game and meet the players.. mmm just a question ..what sport do you think most .. corner store owners no better in the GTA ..hockey or soccer ?

5. What was the marketing pitch to women between 16 and 30 ...none ?

hell we all know the CSA does not have a clue..shut them down ..fire them all...build a new national Football Association.