What's with the terrible attendance?

[Vancity Tim]

Sounds like a few things contributed to the flop attendance, but even still with the support TFC has received a sell out should have been a reasonable expectation. I'd be interested to hear what Torontonians that visit this site and did NOT go to the game have to say. Start times should not be that much of a factor. If you want to see a match badly enough you will find a way to do so.

With regards to Edmonton and the disappointing crowds for the U20, sorry Edmonton you're not off the hook. I was at all the games there and the attendance efforts there were equally as meek as Toronto was tonight.

[mtlfan]

I think the Ontario Soccer Association' 365,000+ members (2005 stats) sent a clear message to me.

We do not care about our national team.

We need to be brainwashed with advertising (Labatt, Mcdonalds etc.)if you expect support.

Our members are just consumers waiting for the next advertisement to tell us what to buy.

We do not put any value on loyalty to the players who play for our country.

[Trillium]

Was Foxboro a sell out last night for Mexico Brasil in a friendly in a third country ?

[Canuck Oranje]

What's with the regionalism? If we want the CSA to do what's in the national interests, we should think in the same way.

On attendance, very few international friendlies around the world would generate attendance numbers over 10,000.

On friendlies with Brazil, there are two primary reasons why Brazil plays a lot of games on the road:

1. They get appearance fees

2. Their attendance at home wouldn't be that much better than that in Toronto if they were playing friendlies with countries like Costa Rica, especially when it is on TV. I doubt a friendly in Brazil against Mexico would have got the attendance it did in Boston.

[Canuck Oranje]

67,584 spectators

quote:Originally posted by Trillium

Was Foxboro a sell out last night for Mexico Brasil in a friendly in a third country ?

[JB_Tito]

quote:Originally posted by Sigma

$100 for a friendly? []

Yep, $100,and on top of that zero advertising.

If we want to fix CSA we should start from the roots of our problems Provincial associations like OSA etc. They don't care about national programs, it sad but true.

[Massive Attack]

The funny thing is that the section with the $100 seats looked about 75% full.

I think the real problem here is that the average fan of soccer in this country still doesn't give a rats ass about Canadian soccer. We shouldn't be having petty city to city arguments. This is a national problem.

TFCs fan base is made up of a small hardcore and then a bunch of hipster poseurs who just want to be at the cool in thing. Until watching Canada becomes cool, we won't see great turnouts anywhere in this country. I think the only thing that could change this is making the World Cup.

[Gian-Luca]

quote:Originally posted by Canuck Oranje

What's with the regionalism? If we want the CSA to do what's in the national interests, we should think in the same way.

On attendance, very few international friendlies around the world would generate attendance numbers over 10,000.

Agreed on all counts. I think anyone comparing attendances to matches featuring Brazil are deluding themselves.

[gkhs]

For those of you who weren't there (which seems to be most of the posters in this thread). The crowd was small, but loud and enthusiastic.

CSA killed the attendance for this game. Prices were absurd. I did not see a single advertisement for the match. Not one.

Tickets should have been 40% of what they were. I paid 20 dollars (with the TM tax) for tickets in the south end, and the top ticket was 100.

If they were priced reasonably, say from 8 to 40, and the game was advertised at all, we would have been at near TFc levels.

[Duane Rollins1555362254]

Attendance for Canada is awful everywhere. Period.

Edmonton was ripped on in the u-20s for a couple reasons. First of all, the tournament was selling out in the other five venues. Second, for years Edmonton posters have consistently (at least as I recall) bragged that they were somehow different than the rest of the country--that their city was the only city that would support Canada, both in numbers and in having a majority of supporters cheering for Canada. At the u-20s Edmonton failed to live up to the expectations it had set for itself. The other five cities, especially Montreal, exceeded expectations. The contrast was hard to miss.

Edmonton posters have shown particular disdain for the fact that Toronto crowds would be mostly made up of non-Canadian fans. It's often been suggested that national team games shouldn't be played in Toronto because it would be like playing a road game for Canada.

Yes, the size of the crowd sucked last night. Yes, the national team should draw better in a city the size of Toronto.

But, instead of chastising those of us that did go (you're preaching to the damn choir people), why don't you look at the positives from last night.

Of the 10,000 fans, 9,000 were cheering for the home team--2,000, loudly, in the south end. Has Canada ever had a true supporter's section cheering for it--not 100 of the most dedicated posters here, but a section like it had last night? I don't think it has. To their credit, a lot of RBP came out to support Canada for the first time yesterday. I spoke to one prior to the game that said that the only thing that has stopped him in the past is the fact that it's next to impossible to follow the national team in this country (I told him about this place, I suspect he'll stop by). There are more people like him. If we keep playing games, more of them will come out.

[marktci]

quote:Originally posted by JB_Tito

Yep, $100,and on top of that zero advertising.

Far be it from me to defend the CSA, but if you listened to the Fan 590 for a few minutes over the past few weeks, you would've heard ads for the game. I didn't see/hear any other advertising on any other media, but there was some done.

[Massive Attack]

As has been mentioned by me and others a million times now, the Fan 590 and AM 640 have had adds for the game for at least 1 month.

[Free kick]

quote:Originally posted by Massive Attack

The funny thing is that the section with the $100 seats looked about 75% full.

I think the real problem here is that the average fan of soccer in this country still doesn't give a rats ass about Canadian soccer. We shouldn't be having petty city to city arguments. This is a national problem.

TFCs fan base is made up of a small hardcore and then a bunch of hipster poseurs who just want to be at the cool in thing. Until watching Canada becomes cool, we won't see great turnouts anywhere in this country. I think the only thing that could change this is making the World Cup.

I think that you hit it on the nose. The turnout was a little disapointing. Canada is not cool and the main reason for that is that most dont believe the past results and performance are not what they consider worthy of their support or interest. I am not say that I agree with that, but thats the way it is. Whether Kingston, Edmonton, Montreal, there is a pattern in the numbers, but when U20 played a friendly against Arg, the place was full. how else to explain that other than the fact of the baggage of past performances and results.

The flip side of it is that this is a freindly and looking at typical numbers for turrnouts for friendlies around the world, these numbers do not exactly strike me as out line. Sure there big sides with pedigree ( eg.: Bra and Arg) that will draw anywhere that they go and then there are the rivalries ( e.g.: Eng-Ger and Ita-Fra) that will draw extremely well regardless of the situation. But other than that>>>???

[Niagara Hammer]

quote:Originally posted by marktci

Far be it from me to defend the CSA, but if you listened to the Fan 590 for a few minutes over the past few weeks, you would've heard ads for the game. I didn't see/hear any other advertising on any other media, but there was some done.

1. price point for cheap seats.

perfect

Price point for the upper end. 100 - 79 - 59 too much

i paid 60 for mid field upper.

they did not sell the lower bowl and I had to change them in for lower level 7 rows up behind the ticos.

2. Advertising sucked huge. beyond huge.

i was listen to the radio 900 out of Hamilton (for traffic) the sports report did not mention the game, it did not mention the Womens WC. Hell it did not even mention the Rugby WC. The two top stories was a Leaf getting done for Drunk driving and and how the jays sucked a the last four nights. That would make me believe JohnTV.

3. The South side looked 90% full. with 75% in black. I tried for a pic however my circa 2000 digital could not handle the light levels for a good pic. we could here most of the chants from there over the 2 dozen or so ticos in the section. GREAT.

4. I think the team should pretty well. One touch passing was decent. Serioux was lucky not to get a Red for his two handed push. Hainault may not be the strongest centre back, do we have other options?

[Free kick]

quote:Originally posted by Massive Attack

As has been mentioned by me and others a million times now, the Fan 590 and AM 640 have had adds for the game for at least 1 month.

I have to agree again. I have bought this argument for the longest time as well; but no more. I think that its time that we get off this: "The games are poorly promoted" refrain. I am convinced that we are climbing up the wrong tree with this excuse. As I mentioned before, there were a gazillion adds promoting this game for weeks now. The last WCQ ( in Canada) that I attended involving Canada , the media was full of stories on the game, yet the crowd size was similar to last night.

Also, pricing might be a contributing factor. But you have to price to cover your costs. The hosts have a lot of expenses to cover; you cant just give away the tickets. So unless you know what the break even point is for this kind of event, the pricing argument has a weak leg to stand on.

[JB_Tito]

quote:Originally posted by Massive Attack

The funny thing is that the section with the $100 seats looked about 75% full.

I think the real problem here is that the average fan of soccer in this country still doesn't give a rats ass about Canadian soccer. We shouldn't be having petty city to city arguments. This is a national problem.

TFCs fan base is made up of a small hardcore and then a bunch of hipster poseurs who just want to be at the cool in thing. Until watching Canada becomes cool, we won't see great turnouts anywhere in this country. I think the only thing that could change this is making the World Cup.

You know why, they closed upper deck sec 200 and send people to first level sec100.Other words whoever bought tickets for $60 was send to $100 seats.

[JB_Tito]

quote:Originally posted by Free kick

I have to agree again. I have bought this argument for the longest time as well; but no more. I think that its time that we get off this: "The games are poorly promoted" refrain. I am convinced that we are climbing up the wrong tree with this excuse. As I mentioned before, there were a gazillion adds promoting this game for weeks now. The last WCQ ( in Canada) that I attended involving Canada , the media was full of stories on the game, yet the crowd size was similar to last night.

Also, pricing might be a contributing factor. But you have to price to cover your costs. The hosts have a lot of expenses to cover; you cant just give away the tickets. I dont know what the break even point is for this kind of event.

Ok, how many people listening the fan 590 and AM 640.I’m the first one that never listen any of those radio stations, and believe me so many other in GTA. Radio advertising is not enough and can’t be used as excuse for CSA f#%king up the whole game. What about newspapers, TV? Not to mention the Youth soccer clubs with 365000 members in Ontario only. They thought just open the gates people will come TFC supporters will be there as usual.

BTW There is a nice picture in Toronto Sun from Nascarguy and Denime(RPB) with Black T-Shirts.

SUCK THE CSA !!!

[Cheeta]

Guys are reading too much into this.

Meaningless friendly played in too early a time slot, midweek, on a cool autumn evening in a market which has been ignored by the CSA for 7 years while televising the match equals a half full stadium.

Still, not bad. Bit disappointing. Good work done by those who did show. Definately a Canadian home match.

A few more quality friendlys with a showing like that by the lads in red and I think we're going to see some far better crowds very quickly.

[sstackho]

I never heard/saw an ad for the match. I do not listen to sports radio.

I also don't recall hearing any mention of the match at TFC games. Was there any?

[Marc]

Maybe it's jsut me, but 9000 for a meaningless friendly on a Wednesday night at 7 with a low-draw opponent is slightly above what I expected.

[Massive Attack]

quote:Originally posted by JB_Tito

Ok, how many people listening the fan 590 and AM 640.I’m the first one that never listen any of those radio stations, and believe me so many other in GTA. Radio advertising is not enough and can’t be used as excuse for CSA f#%king up the whole game. What about newspapers, TV? Not to mention the Youth soccer clubs with 365000 members in Ontario only. They thought just open the gates people will come TFC supporters will be there as usual.

BTW There is a nice picture in Toronto Sun from Nascarguy and Denime(RPB) with Black T-Shirts.

SUCK THE CSA !!!

I'm only citing from my own experiences. The two radio stations that the adds were sent to would have involved the target audience for this game. Stations that are listened to by 18-35 year old males. I can't speak for those other forms of media because I don't follow them. I don't read the print media anymore because of the internet.

Seriously, if you're a soccer fan and you don't know when and where your own country is playing, then all the advertising in the world won't help you.

I don't buy the poor advertising argument. The fact of the matter is 95% of TFC fans are poseurs. Its sad to say, but its true. I think this is part of the reason why TFC TV ratings are so poor. TFC games are attended by people who want to be at the coolest place in town.

What else is the CSA suppose to do? Pay for even more adds? For what purpose? To get 1 or 2 more thousand in the seats? I wonder if a bigger ad campaign would even be cost effective.

Let's not beat around the bush. Toronto FC fans like to suck eachother's dicks bragging about how great they are. But I'm starting to see a lot of signs that show me things aren't as great as we think.

[Marc]

I think the problem is that an ad campign or more ads per se won't work, but a strategic view of advertizing and building up press would. But that is obviously beyond the CSA at the moment.

[Free kick]

One more point that i forgot to make. in the year that we won the gold cup ( ie.: 2000), the consequence of that performance at the turnstiles for the next games played in canada were as follows:

Toronto in Apr or My 2000: sellout of 8K at Varsity ( ie.: varsity west side stands were closed down)

Edmonton versus TNT: over 20K

Winnipeg versus Honduras : Dont recall the exact numbers but I know that if it wasn't a sellout it was close. 8-9K I think

Toronto vs Mex; Simlar to earlier.

So what are we getting these days? well about half of what we used to get in 2000. so there you have it. the best way to promote is to win consistently in the games that count.

[Loud Mouth Soup]

Not defending the CSA, because that just can't be done, but it does help when Nigel Reed works for the FAN590 and did the radio ads himself. I'm guessing he did this outside of the CSA. Oh, and 680News are in the same building, same company.

[gkhs]

quote:Originally posted by Massive Attack

I don't buy the poor advertising argument. The fact of the matter is 95% of TFC fans are poseurs. Its sad to say, but its true. I think this is part of the reason why TFC TV ratings are so poor. TFC games are attended by people who want to be at the coolest place in town.

I can't disagree, though it pains me a bit. I would say the poseur percentage is more like 85%, but outside of the supporters section its pretty much 100%.

I honestly don't think there is a site in Canada where this game draws more than 10000 fans. All homerism aside, can anyone claim that Swangard or Commonwealth or Claude-Robillard or Richardson would have drawn MORE for this match? (Of course most of those facilities would be near/over capacity if they had 9300 fans.)

This is a problem that will face CMNT no matter where it plays.