Women's Team in Turmoil?

[Richard]

quote:Originally posted by loyola

Let's find out why they decided to skip this game before condemning them for their decision. I can't believe they just decided to miss the game for the fun of it, so let's wait.

If their coach or someone else was doing something wrong maybe they were justified to act like that (just speculation).

I agree that we should wait to see what comes out of the CSA enquiry before passing final judgement.

However, any carded athlete knows full well that part of the carding contract requires the athlete to report for all practises, training camps and matches to which they are called unless formally excused well in advance. This is a hard and fast and longstanding Sport Canada rule.

These three it has been reported, were called up for the China series, apparently made no attempt to be excused in advance and just didn't show up, leaving their team shorthanded, their fellow team members and the country in the lurch. Hooper was still captain at the time as far as I am aware, pretty poor example she set. All three ought to have known the consequences of their deliberate actions and shouldn't complain afterwards when they are sanctioned.

The China game business for which there were suspended is quite separate from any issue Hooper may have over purported pressure to move to Vancouver. Despite any disagreement Hooper and the others might have had with the coaching staff all three were stilled called up for the China games and were a no-shows. For that there are consequences and so there should be.

[Richard]

quote:Originally posted by loyola

But do you agree that it vould be possible that the 3 players in question had very good reasons to withdraw from that game? If they're was too much pressure (I mean inapropriate approach) from the coach to play for a certain club, it maybe was the right thing to do.

I'm pretty neutral in this story (needing more info) but to say that the 3 players are responsible for this mess without knowing the whole story isn't very neutral IMO.

Oh sure, any player called up for national duty is entitled to decline the invitation and need not give any reason. Just don't do that then expect to be called up again, especially if you made no attempt to excuse yourself in advance and were just a no-show.

[loyola]

quote:Originally posted by Richard

I agree that we should wait to see what comes out of the CSA enquiry before passing final judgement.

However, any carded athlete knows full well that part of the carding contract requires the athlete to report for all practises, training camps and matches to which they are called unless formally excused well in advance. This is a hard and fast and longstanding Sport Canada rule.

These three it has been reported, were called up for the China series, apparently made no attempt to be excused in advance and just didn't show up, leaving their team shorthanded, their fellow team members and the country in the lurch. Hooper was still captain at the time as far as I am aware, pretty poor example she set. All three ought to have known the consequences of their deliberate actions and shouldn't complain afterwards when they are sanctioned.

The China game business for which there were suspended is quite separate from any issue Hooper may have over purported pressure to move to Vancouver. Despite any disagreement Hooper and the others might have had with the coaching staff all three were stilled called up for the China games and were a no-shows. For that there are consequences and so there should be.

If proven true, the pressures made by the coaching staff (which looks very suspicious right now with the e-mails and the report about a Quebec youth player having been pressured too) should have consequences too. It's not OK to withdraw from a NT match without telling anyone and leaving your team shorthanded, but I'm thinking the same about Pellerud action if proven true.

[Richard]

I don't disagree. Any proven illegal or unethical actions that may have been taken by anybody involved in this saga should have consequences.

[fan]

The CSA can do their own enquiry . Fine go ahead. But I am not interested in their enquiry. It wont be independent nor unbiased and second with their track record, what's the point. I'm interested in inquiry done by sports Canada and the Canadian sports Minister. Richard, the treatment of those three women was ridiculous, but more concerning to me, was that it was cruel. It clearly demonstrated a systemic problem that I've outlined before that exists with the CSA.

There's clear conflict of interest on the part of Evan Pellerud and Kerfoot.

There was clear mistreatment of Hooper and her husband by the CSA.

There was obvious manipulation of Canadian women players forcing them to choose between their clubs and playing for the country.

There was clear pressure by the CSA and a coach with Canadian women's soccer team to comply and join the whitecaps.

The rules and regulations are ambiguous and totally unclear. And this serves the purpose of people who have their own agenda, namely the CSA.

These three women will be forced to pursue a separate and independent action against the CSA. This is inevitable.

in the meantime, coach of the women's national team has ruined that team. He has proved that he is not competent of coaching the team anymore and he is certainly proved that he is untrustworthy. And just on a strictly soccer basis. I would fire him.

[The Ref]

quote:Originally posted by fan

The CSA can do their own enquiry . Fine go ahead. But I am not interested in their enquiry. It wont be independent nor unbiased and second with their track record, what's the point. I'm interested in inquiry done by sports Canada and the Canadian sports Minister. Richard, the treatment of those three women was ridiculous, but more concerning to me, was that it was cruel. It clearly demonstrated a systemic problem that I've outlined before that exists with the CSA.

There's clear conflict of interest on the part of Evan Pellerud and Kerfoot.

There was clear mistreatment of Hooper and her husband by the CSA.

There was obvious manipulation of Canadian women players forcing them to choose between their clubs and playing for the country.

There was clear pressure by the CSA and a coach with Canadian women's soccer team to comply and join the whitecaps.

The rules and regulations are ambiguous and totally unclear. And this serves the purpose of people who have their own agenda, namely the CSA.

These three women will be forced to pursue a separate and independent action against the CSA. This is inevitable.

in the meantime, coach of the women's national team has ruined that team. He has proved that he is not competent of coaching the team anymore and he is certainly proved that he is untrustworthy. And just on a strictly soccer basis. I would fire him.

Let me add a few bits and pieces collected from various sources.

The players were cut from the team roster long before the China games. They were under no obligation to show up after that.

At least Hooper had agreed to come to Vancouver residential camp, but was janked off the plane by Meszaros.

It is unclair whether Meszaros was acting on his own, or under instructions from Pellerud or Pipe.

Players were included in the roster for China apparently to force the issue and use it as an excuse to justify their suspension.

There are other allegations against Pellerud going back quite a while that I will not get into.

[Richard]

We should all remember that the running of the national team is not a democratic affair, never was and never will be. What the CSA and the coaching staff say and want goes as far as the players are concerned. Some players may not like it, well, they are welcome to decline to participate in the program because there will always be other players ready and willing to step up and take their place. The CSA and Pellerud don't seem to have had any trouble finding 20 quality players to commit to the program and it would be difficult to find many better Canadian players than those 20.

[thepatriot]

quote:Originally posted by Richard

Not a report, how did you get that out of that three line post? I thought it was very obvious to most but clearly not you, that my post was nothing but an opinion and you're welcome to express one too.

Richard....it's just a little ironic and annoying that when anyone else gives their "opinion" you're all over them, saying to wait for "the facts" to come through...Be very careful...you're in danger of falling off that fence you're sitting on!

[Richard]

So all of a sudden I can't express an opinion publicly unless I condemn the CSA and everybody associated with the organisation?

[thepatriot]

No....certainly you can have your opinion and it's quite obvious you do not agree with the players in question. That's fine. In fact, I'm happy you've actually told us where you stand on the issue for a change. The problem is when anyone else voices "their" opinion, in which a lot of people have sided with the players, you turn into a lawyer, saying to wait until "both sides" have had their say, then make a judgement. In a perfect world that would be great, but we do not live in that perfect world. We live in a world in which people do make judgement calls on only a fraction of information, facts and sometimes flat out lies. Unfortunate, but true and human nature. This board is all about opinion, but you can't have it both ways...asking people to wait for the facts, then come out with your opinion. That's all!

[Richard]

Firstly there is a difference between expressing an opinion on one aspect of these three players' behaviour (no-shows for international fixtures to which they had been called up) and passing vitriolic overall judgement on partial information, and secondly I have continued to emphasise as you so graciously point out, that we should reserve final judgement until all the facts are in.

Finally, how is reminding folks of the responsibility and obligation of carded players to the program and the fact that the running of the national team program is not a democratic affair such a terribly judgmental thing to do that you feel compelled to call me on it?

[thepatriot]

It's not socialist or communist either..we don't need to remind you what country you're in...ohh and I just said that so you can get the last word in lol!

[fan]

Hypocrisy is evident. You can omit facts if you like but very few people miss that you do.

There are clear and obvious reasons why this independent investigation must happen for anyone to return to respecting or acknowledging the CSA.

[fan]

Hypocrisy is evident. You can omit facts if you like but very few people miss that you do.

There are clear and obvious reasons why this independent investigation must happen for anyone to return to respecting or acknowledging the CSA.

[Richard]

I'm all in favour of a thorough investigation to uncover wrongdoing and exonerate the innocent but FIFA rules mitigate against any government agency having anything to do with it.

[Richard]

I'm all in favour of a thorough investigation to uncover wrongdoing and exonerate the innocent but FIFA rules mitigate against any government agency having anything to do with it.

[fan]

Well isnt that convenient.

Candaian rules do not,And whomever funds or has authority over the CSA ,such as sports Canada or the Minister of sports does not have to abide by Fifa rules. Fifa needs to understand its place. And if soccer leagues and soccer authorities in Canda are a free for all lets find out.If the CSA has no Canadian sanctioning body. then everyone for themself. Leagues galore!I can support three or four competing Canadian soccer associations.

[Richard]

FIFA has already several times suspended national associations because of government interference whether you think it should have such authority or not. Check your facts. FIFA requires that all of its affiliated national soccer bodies be independent of their governments and self regulating. When it comes to an athlete's eligibility for carding monies, that is a matter for Sport Canada, but invitation to the national team program is the sole jurisdiction of the CSA and so it should be.

[The Ref]

quote:Originally posted by Richard

FIFA has already several times suspended national associations because of government interference whether you think it should have such authority or not. Check your facts. FIFA requires that all of its affiliated national soccer bodies be independent of their governments and self regulating. When it comes to an athlete's eligibility for carding monies, that is a matter for Sport Canada, but invitation to the national team program is the sole jurisdiction of the CSA and so it should be.

That is correct. But there is no Government interference here, just three private citizens stating their complaints to the CSA. In any event Fifa is on Hooper's side.

[Richard]

It's not a question of whose side anybody is on or who in the Hooper saga is right and who is wrong. The poster to whom I was responding implied, albeit in a rather confused manner, that Canada is beyond FIFA jurisdiction and that Sport Canada and/or the minister of sport need not be concerend about FIFA rules. Well of course we can do precisely as we please since we are a sovereign nation but if we want to be part of the international football community we had better abide by FIFA rules and meet FIFA's required standards where football/soccer autonomy from government is concerned.

[fan]

"FIFA requires that all of its affiliated national soccer bodies be independent of their governments and self regulating. When it comes to an athlete's eligibility for carding monies, that is a matter for Sport Canada, but invitation to the national team program is the sole jurisdiction of the CSA and so it should be."

I know FIFA'S requirements you officious ninny.Check your own facts just try not to get too excited will you.

Thats exactly my point FIFA'S requirements need to be contested.I dont agree with them all.

"sole jurisdiction of the CSA and so it should be"

Again exactly "so it should be" thats inane dribble. An idiot or slave would accept things totally just because someone says "it should be".And the majority of Canadian soccer fans are neither one of these.

The CSA has sole jurisdiction but the people running need to be contested and made accountable. They should not be allowed to deliver uncontested arbritrary rulings and decisions.

"Well of course we can do precisely as we please since we are a sovereign nation but if we want to be part of the international football community we had better abide by FIFA rules and meet FIFA's required standards where football/soccer autonomy from government is concerned."

Gee I didnt know we were a soveriegn nation really Billy really?

We had "better" are you an adult or a kid? I dont except anything without first comprehending it and then scrutinizing and then deciding on it. Adults and democracies debate and contest when we dont like what is presented.

In case you were not aware people, the CSA is the Canadian Soccer Association.

There you go, I thought I would try one of yours Richard. Try to see how inane your redundant statements look and form an opinion and stand behind it.If you are asked to clarify or present facts go ahead but dont post unasked, redundant statements.

The only "confused manner" I see is the CSA right now,and you wobbling on the fence making statements that are redundant and clear to everyone and taking credit for them as if you were the creator.

The point is the people running the CSA have made some grave errors against these women and these people need to be held accountable by an independent group. The people running the CSA are the people who need to be giving answers about their conduct not judging and asking questions of others.

[Richard]

Sink to name calling if you wish but that's the end my my attempt to engage you in any sensible exchange on this subject.

[fan]

This below is what a sensible response and a real atempt to "engage in a sensible exchange" looks like.

Copied from this link http://www.charmainehooper.com/news.html is the latest update on her site.

This is to bring everyone up to date with the ongoing situation involving Even Pellerud dismissing Christine Latham, Sharolta Nonen and myself from the national team. We have received a response from the CSA stating that they would have no objection to proceeding with a hearing through the Sports Dispute Resolution Center of Canada (www.adrsportred.ca/index_e.cfm).

This system was created by Sport Canada in 2000 by the Minister of Sport, at that time, for the exclusive use of National Team Athletes in resolving problems with their Teams. It is 100% funded by Sport Canada and a national team must first try to resolve issues within it's own organization before recommending them be heard by SDRCC.

This is a mediation process whereby all the parties meet and can speak about all the issues. It has representatives in each province. It's Board of Directors include past and present national team members. The system requires the consent of all parties involved before this type of hearing can be held.

Well, we are happy to finally be on the way to having our case heard so we can have all the facts on the table. Unfortunately this has been a very long drawn out process but it is finally moving forward and this is a very positive step. The CSA has agreed, we have agreed and now we are just waiting for Even Pellerud also to agree so that a date will be set for the hearing. I hope to be updating the site shortly as we learn the date for the hearing.

Good to hear the sports minister is present. Now lets see if Pellerud has the character and decency to appear.

[The Ref]

Just to clarify that the last line on the above posting is not part of Mrs. Hooper news report.

[Richard]

Good to see some progress with this unfortunate situation but I doubt very much the sports minister himself will be involved. The SDRCC is and independent body not associated with the government.