Women's Team in Turmoil?

[The Ref]

Richard

You said in your previous posting "I reserve judgement until ALL the facts are in". That is comendable and very responsible from an editor of a prestigious website. Some of us and myself included prefer to draw early conclusions either in support of one or the other parties involved. What is contradictory is that in spite of your wise reserved judgement you don't hesitate to condemn bitterly Mrs. Hooper and categorically state that she is finished as player for Canada. If you were to abstain of such quick conclusions and your uncany attitude to contradict any poster who does not agree with your conclusions, you will look much more like a sensible person rather than a bitter man.

[Mark Bick]

I didn't hear Sinclair talk about the sponsership....funny how it sailed below the radar. There are so many avenues to explore....do you really believe that Hooper is so desperate, delusional, that she would lie about the flight, her husband's job with the Whitecaps? I suppose there's the potential CSA's out that she may have missed a "hard " deadline to commit prior to the date of her apparent flight, but for both parties, you would have to reckon they were smart enough to have a paper trail...e-mails, fax, to cover their butts.

The CSA is never more (only?) efficient than when it comes to defending their actions --- and they have spoken about the issue -ie didn't have to move to Van to get the dough, etc. - that makes me think it's not just legal restrictions that has limited their response, I think you have to take seriously the possibility of embarrassing behaviour.

[terpfan68]

Is it possible that the Canadian government could step in to resolve the problem? Is any of the monies spent on the National Teams come from the government. Have MP of the individuals involved been contacted?

[Mark Bick]

I'm truly going to indulge in vanity (though some may cry foul) and post this article I wrote in the summer of 2000. It deals with the CSA/Pipe, does have a chunk on Hooper in the middle. It was free- yet I wrote like I was getting paid by the word- over-blown, somewhat embarrassing, the title itself suggests that I was aware that I was merely speculating, putting out a spin. Yet I do feel that it captured the frustration, belief that the CSA was behind the times, didn't cherish our vets, making it easy for a few old-timers to be suspicious of the CSA's actions. I didn't clean the article up - fix a few facts, grammar that I now know is wrong.

A View From A Distance

The cost of Canada's participation in Gold Cup '98?

$0.

The expense incurred in holding Canada Cup '99?

$300,000.

The price paid for a lengthy and passionate supporting of our national team?

Irrational behaviour, mood swings, a likelihood of being diagnosed with bipolar disorder: early warning sign- having 90 minute "conversations" with the tube.

It defies rationale - the importance one can put on 11 guys running around a field, especially if they happen to be sporting your nation’s colours.

Fixtures are circled- opponents studied, feared, jeered. You endlessly run through your own starting 11, shifting Holger to the end of the bench while you toy with changes, pondering if any of the young guns are ready to take over a spot. You pray that those deemed ‘ essential” remain injury free while they’re playing for their club - at the same time not shedding any tears when you hear that an opponent has suffered a knock.

Game day finally arrives- and if there’s anything on the line, you start to get that jangle in the nerves, have to fight the urge to pace, thankful for any task that occupies your time till kick-off. You make sure the VCR is set- unless the result is excruciatingly painful, you’ll want to view the game again when emotions have cooled, studying the “form” – and if you’re lucky, relive a few glorious moments.

The team experiences a solid success and you’re flyin’- there’s a bounce in your step, a smile on your face – you can’t wait for the next match. Plenty of backslaps all around, an easy generosity in the praise flowing for the coaches, players - even the odd kind word for the brain trust. It’s an invigoration that you want to ride as long as you can.

Failure, on the other hand, is just one ugly mutha’. Out the door goes civility - welcome dementia. It’s seldom just a case of losing to a superior team(s) – and after the players and coaches have “kissed the gunnar’s daughter”, it’s easy to turn our glances towards the real culprits - under scrutiny, we can always find something that lays the blame at the door of those “ incompetents’ that run the show in Ottawa.

Then it becomes a blood sport on the fan forums- obsessing about the fools in charge, magnifying their failures - till their simply being drawn and quartered, decapitated, and having their heads stuck on pikes outside the CSA HQ would seem like a mild rebuke for the sins, the pain they’ve inflected on us. Once they’ve dragged you to the bottom, you’ve come to that “final evaluation”- not even the occasional success can soften your heart.

Yet even as I’m aware that my take on Kevan Pipe might be “ slightly skewered”, I ‘d still be willing to answer a summons from the Illuminati, happy to appear before a Soccer Star Chamber, where I would try to calmly and compellingly present a case that not only should Mr. Pipe get the pink slip from the CSA- but also have his citizenship revoked and see his butt bounced from our shores.

What the hell - might as well throw in a lifetime ban from all soccer stadiums - the guy deserves it.

It took a while for me to descend to this sour view on Mr. Pipe- in fact the first time I ever “encountered “ the guy, I actually walked away with quite a favourable impression. The Canadian men’s side had pulled a wobble prior to their WC qualifying game against the Aussies at Commonwealth in October ’93 - they wanted a higher per game payment, something ironed out for the future. You knew this would be resolved; that the animosity wasn’t running that high, that the game would be played. The night before the match, Mr. Pipe agreed to “ update’ the progress for the Vancouver – BC - faithful by talking to late night radio “ Sportstalk” host Dan Russell.

For some strange reason on this late Friday evening, Mr. Russell decides to take out all the ills of the sporting world and place them on Pipe’s head, as if this dispute had been the most blasphemous situation he had seen in the last decade. Total ballistic, totally overboard, totally uncalled for- one the more (unnecessarily) rude interviews I had ever heard.

Here it is midnight Edmonton time, Pipe had probably put in a long day, and he still took the time to talk to a member of the media. He managed to remain calm, rational; delivering a plausible explanation on the problems arriving at a new agreement (which they did) - while the host’s behaviour suggested that it was too late for a rabies shot.

He seemed like the right guy to be running the show. I knew he had been around for a while, involved in purchasing a home for the CSA- but that was the first chance I had to really size him up. Pipe seemed like a change from the faded images I had of the kindly, doddering “old uncles” that had been in charge in the past, occasionally glimpsed when handing out a presentation, trophy at half time. It was obvious that the Chief Operating Officer was going to take the “point.”

It was good to see someone willing to go to the media and spread the word, that here was a person you sensed was up to meeting the challenge of dealing with the changing demands of the sporting world. You felt he would be able to recognize the opportunities to expand the sponsorship base, increase the income flow from tv rights, merchandising- connect with the corporate world. He didn’t strike you as a person who would bail out of an important meeting just because it was time to observe the presumed CSA tradition of breaking for “ afternoon tea.”

Yet after the lucrative and entertaining exhibition games with WC teams in the spring of ’94, the lustre quickly started to fade on Pipe’s reign as Head Domo. As we continued to wanker about with only 3 semi-pro teams, as venues fell into disrepair and we were left with only one stadium that could host a crowd of over twenty thousand, there was a sense of apprehension in witnessing the fact that every “ soccer crisis” was met by Pipe immediately reaching for the helium, so he could start floating trial balloons. You started to come to the conclusion that while the guy obviously had a half-decent rap, he was basically immobile.

The wheels definitely fell off his bandwagon in his handling of the 86ers ownership crisis of ’97.

At first there seemed little reason for concern when Mr. Ilich put up the “for sale’ sign on the 86ers in July ‘97- soccer had a loyal following, a “history” in the Lower Mainland - surely some individual or group would be willing to take over this semi-pro team. The price was right- $1 would get you the 86ers, debt-free- a new owner starting their commitment by posting a performance bond for the following season. It might take some coaxing, perhaps a few dire warnings that the team might fold-but somebody(s) would eventually ride to the rescue, keep soccer alive on the West Coast.

Yet as the deadline approached to commit for the following season, nobody was stepping forward. Names jumped in out and out- seemingly all feeling a need to further study the situation, contingent on other factors- and eventually fading from the scene. One had to take seriously the possibly that the team would fold- and that couldn’t be allowed (this was not the opinion of a season ticket holder worried about losing his reason to live- the 86ers had tradition, a dedication to developing young talent- their departing from the Canadian soccer scene would have made an already bleak landscape, unbearable.)

Mr. Pipe seemed to agree. The University of British Columbia had come up with a plan that would have seen them assume ownership, move the team to their campus - and also have the CSA shift their training centre from SFU. Mr. Pipe’s reaction to that proposal? On October 7, he stated that he was willing to discuss any option to help the team - “ we simply cannot afford to lose the 86ers.”

I was happy to see that Mr. Pipe realized the seriousness of the situation, not trying to hide behind the convenience of it not being strictly in the CSA’s jurisdiction. The guy had been rolling down hill for a while, and this was an opportunity for him to start his climb back to respectability. It was time to pop off the cufflinks, roll up the sleeves and get down to work. Take any dissenting members of the CSA down to the basement and let the “ wrecking crew” do a little persuading (if he had any incriminating, embarrassing photos- now was the time to produce them.) Call in his markers, lean heavily on the regular contributors, beg if necessary to new sponsors-do what ever it would take to make the 86ers viable- it was time to measure up.

Continually pressed by soccer writers covering the “ death watch’, one began to notice that Pipe’s enthusiasm was starting to wane. The final offer from the CSA came in at $20,000- they were willing to cover the food, travel, and accommodation costs of the 86ers that were also involved in the Olympic program.

Twenty thousand bucks!!! - the figure hit like a haymaker from the Duke. Adding insult to injury, to have faithfully followed this “rescue attempt” in the papers with optimism, only to see the CSA arrive at this laughable amount- was almost too much for the brain box to handle. It suddenly became clear - that this organization couldn’t evolve beyond their hand to mouth subsistence, that they didn’t have the strength, the focus, to overcome the many obstacles they faced.

Toss in that fact that our chances of getting to France were going downhill faster than Edi Podivinsky, for the Canadian soccer fan it felt like it was time to head for the hills, fire up the still, throw some road kill on the grill, and commence in-breeding - we’d become “Concacaf Trash.”

Continual glances south of the border seemed to only magnify how truly sad our predicament was. While the 70’s and 80’s had found both the USA and Canada spending an inordinate amount of time in and out of FIFA’s “daycare program”, the 90’s had definitely smiled on the Yanks - a new professional league, two WC appearances (hosting the tournament in ’94), and by October ’97, it wouldn't seem imprudent if the USSF phoned Berlitz and ordered French lessons for the staff and players.

The gulf between our two nations seemed to be growing on a daily basis- yet it still seemed possible to hold on to our dignity by “dreaming” that all Canada needed was one triumph – a WC qualification, a new league- something solid, that would allow us to acknowledge that while we didn’t walk side – by -side, we were at least within shouting distance.

The CSA’s pathetic efforts to save the 86ers, balanced against the USSF/MLS ability, willingness (even though they already had 100’s of players in the MLS, A-league) to spend a million dollars annually on a “plaything”- Project 40, an A-league team for 20 or so MLS apprentices - was a wake-up call, putting an end to the REM time.

Only the obvious was left - that the States had set sail, was working up a nice head of steam, while we were stuck in dry dock- and you had that sinking feeling that our skin tone would be similar to that of Edgar Winter before (if ever) we emerged from their shadow.

There seemed to be no escaping the “Omnipresent”- the Yanks, as even our domestic soccer tv programs would be sprinkled with ads featuring American soccer stars, while we were keenly aware that a Canadian player couldn’t earn enough endorsement money at home to pick up a tab at Tim Hortons.

We would be unable to resist the temptation to tune into ABC and catch the Yanks play their numerous internationals, admiring the luxury of their different venues, filled with images of full houses, smiles and shades as “ quality” dropped by for a visit.

Yet surprisingly-even as it appeared that the “ American soccer fan” was sporting a touch of vacuousness with the Vuarnets- talk of winning it all in 2010, believing their top 20 FIFA ranking, their willingness to post endlessly on the fan forums that Keller was one of the top 5 keepers in the world (even as you suspected that many could not distinguish between Chilavert and Chivas Regal), the fact that their palates might not fully appreciate the “ tasty bits” that the USSF was placing on their plates- there was no resentment, jealousy for their off- field successes, activities.

Eviscerated of spirit, robbed of our ability to dream by the CSA (that by comparison, would have Camus coming across as a happy camper), we realized we’d have to subside on starches, politely laying out the fine silverware for visits from the likes of Macedonia.

What did grate was the reaction of Pipe to his meager offering for the 86ers. Expressing a measured amount of disappointment, it felt like it was business as usual. It would be easy to image him the next day- showered, shaved, suit on, briefcase in hand, lining up behind Dopey and Grumpy and whistling on his way to work- just another day at the office.

You never get the feeling from Mr. Pipe that the disappointments, stumbles, failures- individual or accumulated- bring about in him an overwhelming urgency, the blinding necessity, to go to the cross-roads and pull a Raskolnikov. Quite the opposite - if the situation dictates, he seems more than willing to go in to the now familiar “ batten down the hatches “ drill, ride out another storm - and you strongly suspect that the Gore-Tex is barely off before this cat starts to preen.

Apparently possessing the ability to be quickly fortified, and with the “righteousness meter” red lining, Mr. Pipe seems able to comfortably sidestep the occasional nipping and yapping of the “Chihuahuas”- the Canadian soccer media.

I think Mr. Pipe would have risen in my esteem if he had disappeared during the 86er bail-out effort, not “surfacing” till his picture flashes on the screen during an episode of America’s Most Wanted - John Walsh intoning “ Kevan Pipe, Chief Operating Officer of the Canadian Soccer Association, has not been seen since he left his Ottawa home on October 24, reportedly heading to the local grocer to pick up a bottle of Sunny D. The CSA has since discovered that the funds ear- marked for the organization’s participation in Gold Cup’98 had been withdrawn. Considered slippery, but not dangerous- please report any sighting of the fugitive to Mr. Masoudi at the organization’s headquarters.”

You could empathize with that scenario- after months of predominately dark skies, the prospect of announcing an aid package roughly equivalent to what a well organized week-end bottle drive by the Toronto area Boy Scouts could bring in caused him to crack, that he had to cut himself a severance cheque so that he could leave, find a sanctuary, heal his wounded psyche - that would have been a more honourable ending than the farce the CSA staged.

If the job is more than a pay-check (and how passionate fan believes it must be), how to you hang in there after such a piss-poor result? Even if he believed he did his best, that no one could have been more successful- how do you not at least rage at, expose the stumbling blocks- be shattered by his impedance.

Yet perhaps now is the time to take a break from the speed bag, utilize a little Joe South “sageness”, and acknowledge that there is some value in the CSA’s pronouncements that their office was/is under staffed, over-worked. That there is a degree of difficulty in dealing with the different soccer factions in Canada - provincial, professional - that often Mr. Pipe is as much marionette as puppeteer, not always able to set, implement his own agenda- given the resources to successfully carry out the wishes of the board of directors.

Nearing the end of a failed bid to get to France, bucks were obviously tight, that the plight of the Vancouver team was not strictly in the domain of the CSA- that the Lynx and Impact would be knocking on their door if they provided substantial aid to the 86ers. Perhaps they knew about Mr. Braley’s willingness to be a last minute saviour, or felt that Vancouver was too strong a soccer town to suffer a lengthy absence from professional soccer.

That his strong “ survival skills’ shouldn’t always be viewed with distain - perhaps there’s some admiration to be found in someone fighting to hold on to a gig he enjoys, values. That even in those bleak days of ’97, there was still the success- and future promise- of the U-20 team’s performance in Malaysia to hold on to.

Yet there have been to many face plants to simply portray Mr. Pipe as a victim - and what really made you want to trust your “ gut instinct” is witnessing Mr. Pipe’s occasional brusque dealings with the press, his heavy- handiness in dealing with “ dissident players.” Ask Ms. Hooper – she experienced the “ importance of being Kevan ” last summer.

One could be forgiven if they thought that Canada’s generally low-ranking by FIFA in the ‘90s was an evaluation of the organization, not the team’s on-field performance. Yet when they’re under fire, criticized, they can summon up a survival-mode effort that could garner them “top 10” status -this was obvious during the CSA’s “ rebuttal” to Charmaine Hooper’s accusation that the they were not handling the Women’s program in a competent manner.

All of a sudden, various stats and charts were compiled, the fax machine was working overtime as they tried to diffuse her accusations - it was the kind of “ all hands to the pumps” effort that must have had the comptroller of the CSA relieved that all personnel are salaried.

Then it was announced that Mr. Pipe would appear on Sportsnet during a WWC quarterfinal match - and you knew he wasn’t showing up just to chitchat, model the latest addition to his expanding collection of CSA emblazoned golf shirts.

Before he showed up for his half time talk with Mr. Dobson, I wondered if he would try and paint the picture accurately, give a fair assessment of the CSA’s handling of the women’s game. This was a bit of a tricky situation for Mr. Pipe; he was dealing with a player who had vast experience on the women’s soccer stage, a FIFA all-star, and I wondered if his performance would reflect that, take an even - handed approach.

That would have been a tall order- still lightly peelin’ from the heat of the Canada Cup fiasco, it would have taken a person of strong character to give an open appraisal of the situation - turn in the kind of performance that you could possibly bring up in the future during “ a dark night of the soul”, when something triggers an involuntary “ stock taking”, and in the end you’re left with a sour taste in your mouth - that there’s just the chance that you just might be able to stop the slide, find some solace, in re-calling that at least one time under serious pressure, you acted “ half-f**kin’ normal.”

Yet it was obvious from the start that Pipe would not garner balm for the future from this appearance - that he was man on a mission.

Right off the bat he had my head-shakin’ with his professed “ admiration for Charmaine as a player, person” – well, as Richard Belzer would say “ Yah- right babe.” That’s why in a press release issued a few days earlier, the CSA felt the need - that had nothing to do with the concerns, complaints that Ms. Hooper raised - to slip in the poison danger “ that they regret the distress that Charmaine had caused by her expressing an interest in playing for the States”, referring to an old interview with an American soccer publication (if dredging up that “fact” had caused the CSA brass some distress - one could only imagine that their friends must have put them on “suicide watch” after they dropped 300 grand a few weeks earlier in Edmonton.)

No repudiation, no regrets expressed from Mr. Pipe on that cheap shot from his organization. That’s some respect, some admiration- and couldn’t you just “feel the love’ in Pipe’s pronouncements about Ms. Hooper that followed during the summer of ’99?

He again dipped into his comedy routine by trying to convince us- stats and charts- that the Women’s program- 40% of the CSA’s membership- had been fairly treated in the four years since the last WWC. When queried by Dobson on why Ms. Hooper would bother leveling these accusations if what he said were true, he seemed “ bewildered”, as if perhaps the only logical answer was that her noggin had met one too many crosses.

Ms. Hooper had pointed out that the competition - even in Concacaf – was getting stronger, that Canada needed to implement a comprehensive plan for the Women’s team that was ongoing -that her greatest fear was that the program would revert to its usual “famine and feast’ cycle.

Pipe had himself brought up - prior to the team’s departure for the States- the possibility of the uniforms being moth-balled, indicating that since the CSA had been unable to generate adequate sponsorship for the squad, anything less than a trip to Sydney could put the senior program on hiatus for 2000 (have to laugh when the CSA trots out the “ diminished capacity” defense- “Considering we bombed at getting them sponsorship, I think we did a pretty good job of supporting them eh.”) There is humour, redemption to be found in realizing that the squeaky wheel got the grease- the sight of the CSA rattled, deciding not to adhere to Pipe’s doom and gloom “no Sydney, little hope” scenario. Ms. Hooper’s “ stand’ was probably the seminal Canadian soccer event of 1999.

When asked if others on the team felt let down by the preparations, Pipe downplayed the possibility- twice he referred to an article that was written on the eve of their departure for the States, suggesting that everyone was upbeat, ready to go-even Chairmaine. This of course was natural, the euphoria of a come from behind victory against the Aussies, coupled with the fact that the build-up was over- it was on to the real thing. He was aware, like the majority of Canadian soccer fans, that there had been several articles written about the difficulties that team was having at several positions, and Ms. Hooper had already voiced her opinions on the preparations, Mr. Turnbull.

Pipe went on to say -I’m sure in an unintentionally humorous way – that he had commissioned a “post mortem” (I must have been out of town when they released it) that would include an examination of why the team did alright in the first half, but seem to fall apart in the last 45 minutes. This of course only seemed to firm up the accusations that the preparation, fitness level - perhaps coaching - was not adequate.

It’s not that every thing that Pipe said in that interview suggests he was speaking out of his backside- it just depressingly clear that he just joins the long list of spokespeople that you see on your tv - from business, politics, entertainment etc. who (especially when the going gets rough) use their” five minutes” to strictly sell the company line- who while they may not lie, cannot resist the temptation to slant every answer in the most favourable light.

Their inability to be candid, charitable, grinds on your intelligence, dulls out the world, tempts you to put your boot through the tube. While sadly predictable, to a degree understandable, it remains difficult to respect a person who succumbs to that role.

Mr. Pipe seems to have “ lost his religion” lately- he can no longer be seen in public chanting “ We are not the States, We are not the States, We are not the States- so please don’t compare us- We are not the St…” Yet contrasting the CSA’s performance against other countries’ soccer associations, sporting organizations, would be essential to arrive at a fair evaluation of our Chief Operating Officer.

Unfortunately, an evaluation of Mr. Pipe will probably be always argued on an emotional level- not based on a ledger, insightful analysis. While there’s been the occasional digging around, the press has never been motivated- able- to put Mr. Pipe under the microscope. A thorough examination of his ability to attract sponsorship, a canvassing of how the business world feels about him, his ability to bring unity to national, provincial matters, evaluating his talent to inspire and realize large projects- have never been examined in great detail at a specific moment.

There is of course the possibility that under strong scrutiny, Mr. Pipe would emerge in a favourable light. Can the financially successful WC exhibition games in ’94 simply be written off as “ being in the right place at the right time”- or did some hard grafting on Pipe’s part play a significant role? Does his ability to “hold the fort” – take care of the daily requirements of running the shop- out weight his occasional blunders on the “centre stage?”

With Mr. Fleming’s recent election to another two- year term, Pipe’s position is probably secure- that he won’t be subjected to a strong review. Many would see that as only fair, that Mr. Pipe should be allowed to ride the current good times- that there is no need (possibility) to set the record straight. Even with the chance that we could suffer a WCQ set back this year, we would still have the comfort of the prestigious Confederations Cup to cushion the blow. Whether it was sincere - or a case of the CSA covering their flank - the revitalizing of the Women’s program was the right move to make. If the CSA can convince its membership to implement “ Holgervision”, aid in increasing the number of professional teams - it’s unlikely we’ll ever slip back to the dark days of ’97,’98.

Still it’s hard to shake the sight of the CSA/Pipe going from pratfalls, to him smoothly shifting gears and disciplining a disgruntled player in such a petty, bureaucratic manner (for Mr. Pipe, the Magna Carta must simply suggest a large wheelbarrow) that it makes you seriously consider that he is as shallow a person as he occasionally comes across in the media.

There seems to be little doubt that Mr. Pipe’s willingness to play the hard man has contributed to his lengthy stay at the CSA’s crib on Metcalf St.

-------------

[Guest Ed]

I get a kick out the "dark days of '97,'98" line. Failing to get out of the hex in our next WCQ campaign would be considered a vast improvement over our last two fiascos: failing to advance to the hex under Holger Osieck and, even worse, finishing last in our semi-final group under Frank Yallop.

Pardon the digression from the main gist of this thread.

[Richard]

quote:Originally posted by The Ref

Richard

You said in your previous posting "I reserve judgement until ALL the facts are in". That is comendable and very responsible from an editor of a prestigious website. Some of us and myself included prefer to draw early conclusions either in support of one or the other parties involved. What is contradictory is that in spite of your wise reserved judgement you don't hesitate to condemn bitterly Mrs. Hooper and categorically state that she is finished as player for Canada. If you were to abstain of such quick conclusions and your uncany attitude to contradict any poster who does not agree with your conclusions, you will look much more like a sensible person rather than a bitter man.

I have not bitterly condemned Charmaine Hooper neither have I categorically stated anything other than I will not rush to judgement on the dispute between these three players and the CSA. What I have done and admit freely, is speculate that her career with the national team is very likely now over. I think many people here would agree with me. If you have a problem with that too bad.

[River City]

In defence of Charmaine, she has been with the team for 20 years, all time caps leader with 128 and more importantly and until recently, the Captain of the team. Part of the responsibility of being a Captain is to speak out on behalf of players against perceived injustices.

Jose Mourinho for one has always encouraged his Captains (including John Terry) to speak out against him or the rest of the coaching staff in defense of the players. That is their responsibility.

Regardless of whether or not you like Charmaine, you must admit she is fulfilling her obligations as Captain.

[Richard]

It would appear the three are backing down from their threatened legal action and are considering the CSA appeal route. Does this suggest their lawyer believes a legal suit would not succeed?

http://www.canada.com/topics/sports/story.html?id=7f054012-7cb7-4dd9-90df-cfd847fe8e82&k=72106

[Grizzly]

quote:Originally posted by Richard

It would appear the three are backing down from their threatened legal action and are considering the CSA appeal route. Does this suggest their lawyer believes a legal suit would not succeed?

I think their lawyer probably advised them to go the CSA appeal route because it is the next step of the legal process and also a lot quicker and cheaper than a court procedure. It would be hard to sue the CSA if they have not fully exhausted the CSA's procedures. If the appeal process does not seem to be fair, I think they would then continue the court procedure.

[Cheeta]

quote:Originally posted by Ed

I get a kick out the "dark days of '97,'98" line. Failing to get out of the hex in our next WCQ campaign would be considered a vast improvement over our last two fiascos: failing to advance to the hex under Holger Osieck and, even worse, finishing last in our semi-final group under Frank Yallop.

Pardon the digression from the main gist of this thread.

My personal favourate is "CONCACAF Trash". What can I say? It just works on so many different levels.

Damned if I'll not be wearing an official Voyageur CONCACAF TRASH World Youth Cup tee shirt next summer in Edmonton.

Better get to work on the design right away. Gotta make sure it'll go nicely with the scarves...

[The Ref]

To Mark Bick

Enjoyed reading your article. Revealing and mesmerizing. It is clear to me that nothing has changed in the CSA. What a way to run a railroad.

[The Ref]

The appeal route seems an excellent maneuver, as it will put more pressure on the CSA and Pellerud.

[Richard]

I suspect if they had gone the appeal route from the outset (which would have been the proper channel) instead of trumpeting to the world media the threat of legal action against all and sundry they may have garnered more public sympathy and not alienated their team mates quite to the degree they appear to have done.

[The Ref]

quote:Originally posted by Richard

I suspect if they had gone the appeal route from the outset (which would have been the proper channel) instead of trumpeting to the world media the threat of legal action against all and sundry they may have garnered more public sympathy and not alienated their team mates quite to the degree they appear to have done.

This is a rare occasion when I may agree with you.

[Richard]

Well how about that :-)

But only 'may' agree, you're not sure?

[The Ref]

quote:Originally posted by Richard

Well how about that :-)

But only 'may' agree, you're not sure?

Well, 'may' because wasn't sure who you include in the 'sundry'. Also the public support so far ain't that bad. I think we can now turn the 'speculation' to whatever will the CSA decide on the appeal. I speculate they will give them back their carded status with no garanties of being called to any games or training camps. That that will be up to Pellerud.

What is your take if I may dare ask?

[fan]

The CSA is making lemon aid out of champagne again. This is so deplorable that Charmaine, another example of someone who has been an excellent rep for our sport and a fantastic role model for Canadian women is treated in such a reprehensible way. Charmaine first I want to say thank you and second I want to say I am sorry that the Canadian fan including me has let you down and allowed this to happen to you. Our complacency and sheer laziness has allowed this Cartel to abuse people and ruin this sport in our country.

The western British "old boys club" demand their fees and boot anyone that does not comply. Imagine having the gull to speak out publicly and state the facts and truth like Charmaine exposing not only the collusion but the outright cruelty and utter greed by the CSA and the Vancouver whitecaps Kerfoot. Richard your mask was removed a long time ago ("trumpeting to the world media the threat of legal action against all and sundry they may have garnered more public sympathy").

I can see no way in which a group like the CSA and their band of "old boys club" cartel will ever dissappear and they have ruined and disgraced the sport of soccer and Canadian soccer for decades. These women are unfortunately just more more fodder for the cartel's goals and the Canadian fans will suffer for decades to come. Just sad, just plain sad.

[Kaylee]

I know this will make Richard see red, but here goes... What if the WNT captain had issued a statement along these lines: “The team regrets recent events concerning three of our team members. Their contributions will be missed in our upcoming games in Korea, but we are deferring further comment until this situation has been resolved by the CSA."

[Guest Ed]

quote:Originally posted by Kaylee

I know this will make Richard see red, but here goes... What if the WNT captain had issued a statement along these lines: “The team regrets recent events concerning three of our team members. Their contributions will be missed in our upcoming games in Korea, but we are deferring further comment until this situation has been resolved by the CSA."

She never would have said that because that was not in the script she was handed.

[Cheeta]

I think that was entirely the point.

[fan]

I can see that people get misdirected and sidetracked into other issues and thats fine in a forum like this one. However if what Charmaine said is true and their was coercion by Kerfoot and the CSA and now it appears Pellerud too then this needs to be clarified and resolved. If the treatment and steps that Charmaine stated of her husband are true then I am appalled and demand all and each one of these issues be resolved and the people held accountable for their actions.

The lack of clarity by the CSA is not a precedent and even if they prove ethically they are innnocent, this is another unacceptable incident by the CSA.

This is so unfortunate for these women to have to endure this kind of cruel and underhanded treatment that continues to go on unabated or challenged or investigated.

[Richard]

quote:Originally posted by Kaylee

I know this will make Richard see red, but here goes... What if the WNT captain had issued a statement along these lines: “The team regrets recent events concerning three of our team members. Their contributions will be missed in our upcoming games in Korea, but we are deferring further comment until this situation has been resolved by the CSA."

But she did not.

[Richard]

quote:Originally posted by fan

I can see that people get misdirected and sidetracked into other issues and thats fine in a forum like this one. However if what Charmaine said is true and their was coercion by Kerfoot and the CSA and now it appears Pellerud too then this needs to be clarified and resolved. If the treatment and steps that Charmaine stated of her husband are true then I am appalled and demand all and each one of these issues be resolved and the people held accountable for their actions.

The lack of clarity by the CSA is not a precedent and even if they prove ethically they are innnocent, this is another unacceptable incident by the CSA.

This is so unfortunate for these women to have to endure this kind of cruel and underhanded treatment that continues to go on unabated or challenged or investigated.

An awful lot of 'ifs' in your post. Beware jumping to conclusions based on incomplete or inaccurate information, or worse, assumptions.

[fan]

Once again Richard, complete officious redundant nonsense and misdirection with a warning. Oh you brave lad! Ignore Richards habitual verbal masturbation he cant help himself he really does think he is communicating.Theres always more information revealed in what is not said or addressed and it is obvious the void they create with what they do actully say.

Back to the actual issues. This needs to be addressed properly and the facts revealed and the people accounted for.

[Richard]

quote:Originally posted by fan

Once again Richard, complete officious redundant nonsense and misdirection with a warning. Oh you brave lad! Ignore Richards habitual verbal masturbation he cant help himself he really does think he is communicating.Theres always more information revealed in what is not said or addressed and it is obvious the void they create with what they do actully say.

Back to the actual issues. This needs to be addressed properly and the facts revealed and the people accounted for.

You really have a problem don't you. Maybe some counselling would help.

Yes, I agree 100% that this saga needs to be addressed properly and the facts revealed and people held accountable for their actions, on both sides. Until then none of us really knows what transpired which has been my point all along, thanks for reinforcing it.