Gian-Luca Posted February 6, 2004 Share Posted February 6, 2004 United States defeats Canada 2-0 at Olympic soccer qualifier GUADALAJARA, Mexico (CP-AP) -- There will be no berth in the Athens Summer Games for Canada's under-23 men's soccer team. The United States defeated Canada 2-0 at the regional Olympic qualifying tournament Thursday to secure one of two Group A semifinal spots and eliminate Canada from contention for a spot in Athens. After losing its opening game of the tournament 1-0 on Tuesday to Honduras -- one that saw Canada register just two shots on goal -- Canada needed at least a tie against the United States to keep its Olympic hopes alive. Canada has not qualified for the Summer Games since 1984 in Los Angeles, when the squad reached the quarter-finals before losing 4-2 on penalty kicks to eventual silver medallist Brazil. Canada (0-2) will play its final game of the CONCACAF tournament for under-23 teams Saturday against Panama (0-2). Bobby Convey scored both goals for the U.S. (2-0) to give him the tournament scoring lead with four. Canadian coach Bruce Twamley was upset how tightly the game was called, with eight yellow cards -- including five for Canada -- and repeated fouls. The Canadians had to play the final 27 minutes of the game shorthanded after defender Adam Braz was sent off after receiving his second caution. "This used to be a man's game," Twamley said. "He must have given out 12 cards. "It's ridiculous." He then walked off, muttering vociferously under his breath. With Canadians playing Americans in front of Mexicans, there was no question who was most resented. The crowd of about 1,500 at Tres de Marzo Stadium was vociferously anti-American, booing the U.S. national anthem, as well as the team. Emil Martinez scored twice as Honduras (2-0) secured the other Group A semifinal berth with a 3-1 win over Panama earlier Thursday at Zapopan, Mex. Jerry Palacios had the other goal for the winners. An own goal by Honduran defender Victor Bernardez accounted for Panama's offence. Mexico and Costa Rica started play Thursday having already secured the semifinal berths in Group B. The top two teams from each group advance to a cross-over semifinals. The squads winning their semifinal contests will qualify for Athens. The semifinal matchups will be determined by the results of the remaining matches in each group. Costa Rica and Mexico will meet Friday to decide first place in Group B, while the U.S. tangles with Honduras on Saturday for top spot in Group A. Canada came out aggressively and got four cautions as well as the first two shots on goal en route to outshooting the Americans 5-3 in the first half. But it was Convey who had the lone goal, scoring at the 30-minute mark to cap a string of four passes that started in the back with defender Chris Wingert. Convey cemented the victory with an insurance goal in the 72nd minute. Two minutes later, Braz was sent off, effectively ending any comeback hopes the Canadians had. Canada regained two players for the game who had been out for accumulated penalties: defender Chris Pozniak of Oreboro in the Swedish premier league and reserve midfielder David Masciantonio. Both teams were without experienced players. Canada didn't have midfielder Julian de Guzman, who had to return to his Brundesliga club, Hannover 96. The United States was minus defender Zak Whitbread, who suffered a partial tear of his left quadriceps in a 4-3 win over Panama. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Daniel Posted February 6, 2004 Share Posted February 6, 2004 For WCQ, it has nothing to do with the squad or anything, but it just seems that the men's team always dissapoint. The U20's, while getting to the quarters, got rather lucky (0-2 against Brasil, 1-2 against Australia, 1-0 against Czechs, 1-0 against Burkina Faso - not the scariest opponent -, and a valiant 1-2 against Spain). Ultimately, that comes down to 2 wins, no draws and 3 losses. I've been optimistic since the 2000 GC, but failures at almost every level of our men's programs and lack of goals in each has me questioning my blind optimism: - WCQ 1998 - Confed Cup 2001 - GC 2002 (where we beat Haiti and South Korea - the latter in a consolation final, tied the States and Martinique (both going to penalties) and lost to Ecuador - GC 2003 with a lucky win and a crushing loss - OQs 1999 - OQs 2003 - a miserable 2001 WYC - a decent 2003 WYC, still with a losing record - U17s WCQ at home when we're favourite How many goals have we scored in all these competitions combined? I'd wager less than half a goal a game. And that's beyond sad, that's downright pathetic. I'll support Canada through and through and will make all WCQs I can and be the first to congratulate the team if we make the Hex, but I can't be the only one sweating bullets over our past record. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gian-Luca Posted February 6, 2004 Share Posted February 6, 2004 On the other hand, the only time in the past 3 years that one of our national teams has been able to field a full-strength squad (the U20 team last year), they made it to the Q-Finals. Lets see what a full-strength national team can do, and under a Coach with a very high reputation and that brings with him a winning atmosphere. I was optimistic initially about the Olympic's team's chances, but gradually lost that optimism when the reality of the rule change became apparent & seeing that we would be missing 5 to 6 players from our roster for each match, at least 4 of whom would be starters. We got screwed more than any other team by that rule, and it comes as a great disappointment but no surprise to me that we didn't qualify. The other teams had their best players, we didn't, and I didn't expect us to qualify under those circumstances. It sounded like both games were pretty tight, with Convey & Donovan providing the difference. I would have like to have had Hume & De Guzman to go head to head with those two, but we'll have to wait until World Cup qualifying to see that happen. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Massive Attack Posted February 6, 2004 Author Share Posted February 6, 2004 I don't think the result was really that bad, from what Gian-Luca posted (and I have no reason to doubt him), its sounds like we got shafted by bad officiating. That sucks. Well, at least we'll have all of our players available for the Aug. 17 WCQ now. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
An Observer Posted February 6, 2004 Share Posted February 6, 2004 4 qualifying matches for the Olympics against decent opposition. 1 goal. Pathetic. Especially as we have been one of the best U-20 sides for the last 4 years in the region. Twamley has to go. His quotes in the newspapers alone denote that he is not fit for the job. He gives the US a reason to beat us by saying he's not impressed with them and then blames the referees for the loss. Anyway, it just undermines my point. The last U-20s succeded in large part to Hume and Mitchel. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Canuck Oranje Posted February 6, 2004 Share Posted February 6, 2004 I am not the first one to bash the coach but we have individuals with talent equal to the Americans in De Guzman, Nsaliwa, Hutchinson, etc. Still we can't compete. Someone has to take the fall. In any other country, that would be the case. The CSA needs to take more of a long-term strategic approach with the Olympic team. As much as I think DeGuzman and Nsaliwa are two of the best talents at this age group, I think we should use this tournament to showcase some of the talent in North America and those available due their off-season. At least we don't make them have to choose between club and country when we would rather have them available for WCQ. Besides the best team wins and not necessarily the team with the best players. In Brazil, even the best players were criticized for being selfish and over confident when they failed to progress in the Olympic tournament. The coach there will also lose his job, if he hasn't already. The CSA needs to take success seriously if they want everyone else to take us seriously. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gian-Luca Posted February 6, 2004 Share Posted February 6, 2004 I'm agreed that the coach should go, as despite the disadvantages he was dealt with this time round, its still two attempts to qualify in a row which came up short. And there is still some debate about selections, especially since outside of the club conflicts some notable strikers were left off the team, a bigger issue now that the team failed to score in the past two matches. Or starting players who were subs at the U20 two months ago ahead of players who started every match. As well, it looks like we went with one striker for this match, exactly what I don't want to see when we need a win & the other team doesn't. I doubt that even Twamley will disagree about his leaving (maybe on some of the reasons I've given, but not on the departure itself), as he was quoted as saying that he thinks he would leave even if they did qualify, for the sake of a change if nothing else. As for having top talent comparable to the US team, yes that is true, but the salient point is that most of that talent wasn't there. If the US was missing most of their star players like we were, that would be one thing. Convey & Donovan have accounted for 5 of the 6 US goals scored thus far, and it's not difficult to imagine that if those players had been missing the way ours were that the US would also be in trouble. I'm not suggesting complacency at our inability to score or being satisfied from failing to qualify, but to keep things in perspective. The US would have been able to replace Donovan & Convey as easily as we have been able to replace Hume & De Guzman - which is not easily at all. (Beasely doesn't seem to have been much of a factor in the match, though it could be that he was cancelled out by Nsaliwa once again). We will continue to struggle at any tournament where we aren't allowed our best players until the domestic scene improves dramatically over here, either with a fully-fledged league of our own or in conjuction with the US. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Christian B. Posted February 6, 2004 Share Posted February 6, 2004 quote:Originally posted by Daniel For WCQ, it has nothing to do with the squad or anything, but it just seems that the men's team always dissapoint. The U20's, while getting to the quarters, got rather lucky (0-2 against Brasil, 1-2 against Australia, 1-0 against Czechs, 1-0 against Burkina Faso - not the scariest opponent -, and a valiant 1-2 against Spain). Ultimately, that comes down to 2 wins, no draws and 3 losses. I've been optimistic since the 2000 GC, but failures at almost every level of our men's programs and lack of goals in each has me questioning my blind optimism: - WCQ 1998 - Confed Cup 2001 - GC 2002 (where we beat Haiti and South Korea - the latter in a consolation final, tied the States and Martinique (both going to penalties) and lost to Ecuador - GC 2003 with a lucky win and a crushing loss - OQs 1999 - OQs 2003 - a miserable 2001 WYC - a decent 2003 WYC, still with a losing record - U17s WCQ at home when we're favourite How many goals have we scored in all these competitions combined? I'd wager less than half a goal a game. And that's beyond sad, that's downright pathetic. I'll support Canada through and through and will make all WCQs I can and be the first to congratulate the team if we make the Hex, but I can't be the only one sweating bullets over our past record. Well said. I predict a MAXIMUM of 1 point out of the 3 games in CR, Honduras & Guatemala. Why? Because we can't score. As per the US fans, they were missing also several key players. As someone else said 1 goal in 4 games (+30 minutes overtime)against decent opposition is pathetic. No Olympics for the men for at least 24 years. (1984 - 2008?) I wasn't really expecting a qualification for Athens 2004 but I wasn't also expecting to be eliminated after only 2 games. Very disapointing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gian-Luca Posted February 6, 2004 Share Posted February 6, 2004 Hey, I'll take one point in three games in CR, Honduras & Guatemala, if we can get a maximum 9 points in our 3 home games against those teams. If we win at home & tie on the road, we'll qualify. As to whether Radzinski, De Rosario, Hume, Stalteri & De Guzman can't score against those teams (when they have proven capable of scoring against equal or better opposition, well, we'll see.) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Christian B. Posted February 6, 2004 Share Posted February 6, 2004 quote:Originally posted by Gian-Luca Hey, I'll take one point in three games in CR, Honduras & Guatemala, if we can get a maximum 9 points in our 3 home games against those teams. If we win at home & tie on the road, we'll qualify. As to whether Radzinski, De Rosario, Hume, Stalteri & De Guzman can't score against those teams (when they have proven capable of scoring against equal or better opposition, well, we'll see.) I wanted to say a maximum of 1 point for the 3 games on the road not 1 point per game for a total of 3 points and I don't believe that we'll collect 9 points in Canada. Anyway, I hope that you're right and I'm wrong. After following the MNT for over 20 years, I was deceived so many times...... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
soccer girl Posted February 6, 2004 Share Posted February 6, 2004 thank you quote:Originally posted by matthew Who needs a drink? cheers, matthew P.S. welcome to the boards soccer girl Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
soccer girl Posted February 6, 2004 Share Posted February 6, 2004 from one of my personal sources, all the yellow cards given to canada were not valid,no reasons for giving them, and both goals scored on the canadian team were stupid goals. The referee was all over the canada team and it was a very dirty game. Olivieiri got hurt in different areas: cut on the knee, bump on the head and another cut somewhere else. So the americans were playing to win and not to lose and the ref was on their side. quote:Originally posted by Gian-Luca A few details gleaned from reading the bigsoccer play by play. Apparently (for what its worth, totally moot now) Braz was ejected for complaining to the Ref about the 2nd goal, which Braz felt was offside. This came shortly after Canada had two claims for penalties (when the score was 1-0) which the Spanish-language announcers calling the game say were legitimate penalties, but neither called. The Ref was from T&T, incidentally. This of course, does us absolutly no good at all now. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gian-Luca Posted February 6, 2004 Share Posted February 6, 2004 quote:Originally posted by Christian B. I wanted to say a maximum of 1 point for the 3 games on the road not 1 point per game for a total of 3 points and I don't believe that we'll collect 9 points in Canada. Anyway, I hope that you're right and I'm wrong. After following the MNT for over 20 years, I was deceived so many times...... I knew what you meant - but it still stands. Maximum points at home & a single draw on the road is likely going to stand us in good stead. At the national level goal-scoring hasn't been that much of a problem for us recently - its goals-allowed that has been & that is more of my concern going into Central America. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gian-Luca Posted February 6, 2004 Share Posted February 6, 2004 Another report of the match from the US, basically confirming what was reported earlier. http://www.ussocceruk.com/news/?CatTypeId=2&ContentId=1326 Convey sparks US to win Bobby Convey scored twice as the United States Under-23 team defeated Canada 2-0 on Thursday evening in Guadalajara, Mexico. Convey and Landon Donovan combined twice for the victorious Yanks, who put together a more dedicated defensive showing after giving up three goals in the second half against Panama earlier this week. The win cements a spot in the semifinals of the qualifying tournament, alongside Honduras, Costa Rica, and host Mexico. Honduras and the US face off on Saturday to decide the group winner, who then will face the second place team from the other group for a place in Athens this summer. Both teams were without starters from their respective first matches. The USA lost two defenders in the win over Panama, with Liverpool product Zak Whitbread out of the tournament entirely with a torn left quadricep muscle. Head coach Glenn Myernick rung four changes in his starting lineup. Teammate Jose Burciaga also missed out, with LA Galaxy defender Ricky Lewis at right back. Myernick decided not to risk Kyle Beckerman and Brad Davis for a suspension if either got a second yellow card. Brian Carroll and Logan Pause took their place in the starting 11, while Ed Johnson replaced Alecko Eskandarian at forward. It was a battle in the early going, with five players finding their way in the notebook in the first 25 minutes of play. Overall, play was even as Canada kept players like DaMarcus Beasley and Donovan relatively quiet. The first real opportunity fell to Johnson drive from a Lewis cross, but the crossbar was unkind to the USA. On 30 minutes, Convey gave the United States the lead with his third goal of the qualifying tournament. Chris Wingert and Beasley combined down the left, giving Donovan space in the centre of the attack. Donovan played Convey through to give the D.C. United midfielder a chance to finish off the move with a shot into the right side of the net. The second half was a game of possession, but both sides had their chances. Beasley put a shot over the bar, while Canada had two calls for a penalty denied by the referee. The game hung in the balance, but the US took a took a two-goal lead when Convey again showed a deadly finishing touch he has not shown for D.C. United. The 72nd minute goal was created again by the work on a counterattack; substitute Eddie Gaven's ball combined with the run of Donovan to beat the Canadian offside trap. Donovan drew a defender to him, and laid the ball off to Convey who beat keeper Andrew Olivieri. Canada was handed a crushing blow as defender Adam Braz was sent off for his second yellow card for dissent on the goal. D.J. Countess' clean sheet came in doubt with six minutes left, as Rocco Placentino's free kick was tipped by the US keeper onto the crossbar. The shot went off the bar onto the post, and was cleared by the defence. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Ref Posted February 6, 2004 Share Posted February 6, 2004 quote:Originally posted by Gian-Luca I'm agreed that the coach should go, as despite the disadvantages he was dealt with this time round, its still two attempts to qualify in a row which came up short. And there is still some debate about selections, especially since outside of the club conflicts some notable strikers were left off the team, a bigger issue now that the team failed to score in the past two matches. Or starting players who were subs at the U20 two months ago ahead of players who started every match. As well, it looks like we went with one striker for this match, exactly what I don't want to see when we need a win & the other team doesn't. Times have changed. I never thought I would read from you Gian-Luca that a coach has to go. But I agree with you. I think I remember Twamley also having a stint with the senior team on an interim basis years ago? Anyway, I was dissapointed when Twamley said after winning against El Salvador that he didn't think they will get past their next game. Well, it became a self fulfiling an accurate profecy, but it was not a positive attitude for a coach to spread. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Beaver Posted February 6, 2004 Share Posted February 6, 2004 I think we are missing a good deal of realism here. Sure, Twamley should probably go, for the very reasons G-L suggested: This is the second failed attempt at qualifying. But I will say this: The US program is leaps and bounds beyond ours at this level. Too many of our players NEVER get a chance to play together, while the US players are raised in an evironment where they play together a lot. Their youth development programs are so well funded!! If we want to be competitive, we need our best players playing together much more often. Yes, we have decent individual talent here and there, but this remains a team game, and our players need to learn how to play together. Part of the U20 success this past go around was due to the fact that this squad had a lot more time training and playing together than was previously the case. Mitchell is a good coach and used excellent tactics, sure, but we cannot dismiss the importance of playing together. One other thing: I am disappointed to hear some of you (Daniel in particular) diminishing what our U20s achieved in the UAE. Nobody here is suggesting that as a result of this tournie we are NOW a soccer super-power, but I find it juvenile and entirely unfair to discredit their results, especially considerng all the honest hard work, good coaching and some brilliant bits of finishing that went into our Q-final appearance. Yes, we have a long, long ways to go, but don't **** on our lads with your dull pessimism. Let's build, realistically, on what we achieved in the UAE. Good things happened. No, we did not finish with a perfect record--or even a winning one--but we won key games and got some good results and earned a tiny bit of respect. It seems that some of you are only too willing to crap on what was an otherwise positive step in the development of our soccer programs. With that said, let's go hard on WCQ!! Vive le Canada!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Free kick Posted February 6, 2004 Share Posted February 6, 2004 quote:Originally posted by Canuck Oranje I am not the first one to bash the coach but we have individuals with talent equal to the Americans in De Guzman, Nsaliwa, Hutchinson, etc. Still we can't compete. Someone has to take the fall. In any other country, that would be the case. The CSA needs to take more of a long-term strategic approach with the Olympic team. . . I have to somewhat disagree. yes we have two or three players with equal talent to anyone on the US side. Problem is that they were either not available or only available for one game. But this is still a team team sport where the other eight or nine players on the pitch are needed to make a difference. Thats where the Yanks have a very big edge. Don't forget that Atiba is only 19 or 20 yrs old and, although, he may be a super prospect, he is still two to three years younger than most other players on the pitch. That is a fair ways away on the developmental curve. So while he may one day be better than Beasley and/or Donavan are now, you cannot, at this time compare these players. We went with 7-8 U20 players and should tell you alot right there. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gordon Posted February 6, 2004 Share Posted February 6, 2004 quote:Originally posted by Free kick I have to somewhat disagree. yes we have two or three players with equal talent to anyone on the US side. Problem is that they were either not available or only available for one game. But this is still a team team sport where the other eight or nine players on the pitch are needed to make a difference. Thats where the Yanks have a very big edge. Don't forget that Atiba is only 19 or 20 yrs old and, although, he may be a super prospect, he is still two to three years younger than most other players on the pitch. That is a fair ways away on the developmental curve. So while he may one day be better than Beasley and/or Donavan are now, you cannot, at this time compare these players. We went with 7-8 U20 players and should tell you alot right there. Hutchinson is the same age as Convey and Johnson, both of who played for the US. And were the US missing a few more key players (as was the case with Canada), I'd think you would have seen more U-20s from them as well. The US has an edge in depth. They always will with 10 time more players to choose from and a League for their lessor lights to train/play in. Bottom line in this game is that our Donovan - DeGuzman - was out, as were 2 of our next 3 best midfielders (you can argue 2 of 4). Add in our top striker missing as well. We can go chicken little here, but we've done better than I've expected given the absences. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Ed Posted February 6, 2004 Share Posted February 6, 2004 Don't let the door hit you on the way out Bruce. Four years too late for me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gian-Luca Posted February 6, 2004 Share Posted February 6, 2004 quote:Originally posted by Free kick I have to somewhat disagree. yes we have two or three players with equal talent to anyone on the US side. Problem is that they were either not available or only available for one game. But this is still a team team sport where the other eight or nine players on the pitch are needed to make a difference. Thats where the Yanks have a very big edge. There I would disagree. What yesterday's match seems to indicate (from what little we know) that it isn't the other 8 or 9 players on the field that gave the US the edge but the presence of the 2 or 3 big stars, combined with the absence of 2 or 3 big stars on our team. It was the Conveys & the Donovans of the team that did the damage, and it would have been the Humes & De Guzmans of our team that I woul have expected to do the most damage to them. Overall they have more depth & likely always will - but at the youth levels recently it would seem that the top 18 players (that would be first choice to fill up the roster) aren't that far apart. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Daniel Posted February 6, 2004 Share Posted February 6, 2004 I'll defend my words on the 2003 WYC. We played well and we made it to the QFs (and I jumped from my couch and yelled when Hume equalised), but we still had a losing record, our two wins came by 1-0 (can a Canadian team even win a game by another score than 1-0???), we scored 4 goals in 5 games, got through on the least possible points to the second round because we didn't need to finish in the top 2 and had all of ONE goal in 5 games scored by a player other than Hume. The achievement was great, but that's about as close to "scraping through" as you can get (besides coin flips and lots, which have helped up turn early exits into long GC runs in the past). I think the performance was brave and the QFs were an amazing accomplishment, but we got DAMN lucky to get there. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
marcl_19 Posted February 6, 2004 Share Posted February 6, 2004 quote:Originally posted by Rudi HOLY JESUS!!! BRAZ SENT OFF IN MINUTE 73!!! VI, what's the Super 7 numbers for Friday??? haha i had to go check if he edited his post.......no dice.....good job VI haha Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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