Reza Posted October 6, 2003 Share Posted October 6, 2003 For all the talk about Sweden and their long ball style, it appeared to me that they are not exactly a long ball team either. Quite similar to Germany actually with two really speedy strikers. They looked very good all around having the capability to play all kinds of styles. They totally dominated Canada and unlike China they had the lethal strikers. So, I hope that after this world cup, the brains behind Canadian soccer, whoever they are, start looking at other teams and really, nobody plays Canada's style anymore. The whole world can't be wrong!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andrew W Posted October 6, 2003 Share Posted October 6, 2003 It was really a matter of the inevitable. We were playing on borrowed time and it was fun while it lasted. All credit to Sweden but Germany will crush them quite easily. Honestly, they should have handed out the trophy after the first semifinal. Still, our tactics must change or the youth we possess will be completely wasted playing this hit and hope garbage. The girls survived this long purely on guts and effort, along with some very timely goalkeeping (Calgary's proud Taryn). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cheeta Posted October 6, 2003 Share Posted October 6, 2003 Sweden looked good all around. Quite the display. That's going to be a quality final. Consilation final shouldn't be too bad either. Maybe it's just me but Canada didn't look to have quite the jump they should have. Likely at lot of sore legs came onto the pitch. Great run. Great run from a really, really young team. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gordon Posted October 6, 2003 Share Posted October 6, 2003 quote:Originally posted by Reza For all the talk about Sweden and their long ball style, it appeared to me that they are not exactly a long ball team either. Quite similar to Germany actually with two really speedy strikers. They looked very good all around having the capability to play all kinds of styles. They totally dominated Canada and unlike China they had the lethal strikers. So, I hope that after this world cup, the brains behind Canadian soccer, whoever they are, start looking at other teams and really, nobody plays Canada's style anymore. The whole world can't be wrong!!! Sweden were simply playing Direct soccer the way its designed to be played, and quite frankly looked like Canada on its good days. They were the better team on the day, and deserved to win. But they launched long ball after long ball. There forwards were nible and quick, and quite skilled. But in the end, they simply ran us into the ground. It was Canada's best game of the tournament for possession. Simply because neither team were considerably interested in keeping it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
matthew Posted October 6, 2003 Share Posted October 6, 2003 Yeah I thought the Swdes played a heck of a game. We battled hard and damn if we didn't come close to sending it into golden goal in the end. I didn't know Dennis was another converted forward! I hadn't heard of her pre-Pan Am. So today we used six defenders and four of them were forwards as of six months ago and another one was a midfielder. We didn't look pretty this tournament, but when you're trying to piece together a back line like that I'm pretty proud of the results. cheers, matthew Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Reza Posted October 6, 2003 Share Posted October 6, 2003 On Sweden's game...their touches up front were amazing. Unless we have been watching different games for the past two years, I have yet to see Canada play like that up front. They may have launched balls up front, but they were simply amazing up front and showed great cohesion up there. They were slicing our defence left and right and center and I have yet to see Canada do that even to middle tier teams. I think Canada needs quite abit more work to play like that in the offensive half. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chet Posted October 6, 2003 Share Posted October 6, 2003 I think it all came down to the injuries in our defense. Put Chapman, Boyd and Morneau back there, move Hooper up front, and we'd have won this game. Dennis showed a lot of character, but she's not good enough yet to handle the kind of skilled attackers we saw today. The fact we had to use Wilkinson as our lone striker at the end of the game shows how few options there are up front without Hooper. As for the style, I agree and I disagree. I do think it has to change, but I think it will change naturally as the players gain more skill and confidence. It's a young team and I think the style looked worse because the younger players have a tendency to rush the plays, which results in bad passes (if they can even be called passes) that go straight onto the feet of the opposing players or to nowhere in particular. I fault Pellerud more for his decision to try to defend a one-goal lead. We played reasonably attractive soccer when the score was 0-0. Anyway, it was a good show. The team exceeded my expectations. I've said before that given the age of these players, this squad won't reach its peak potential until 2011. Once again, women's soccer got the attention of the entire country (They bumped MLB playoffs right off the air!). And they'll be even better four years from now. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gordon Posted October 6, 2003 Share Posted October 6, 2003 quote:Originally posted by Reza On Sweden's game...their touches up front were amazing. Unless we have been watching different games for the past two years, I have yet to see Canada play like that up front. They may have launched balls up front, but they were simply amazing up front and showed great cohesion up there. They were slicing our defence left and right and center and I have yet to see Canada do that even to middle tier teams. I think Canada needs quite abit more work to play like that in the offensive half. I'll agree that Canada's forwards don't have the on the ball skills that the Swedish forwards displayed, although they may not have been as effective against real defenders. But Lang and Sinclair routinely beat the first defender, and Latham displayed excellent holding skills. Part of Canada's problem's in this tournament was the lack of midfield support for the forwards. That was the biggest difference I noticed between Canada and Sweden. As well, they (Sweden) did not force the long ball when it was simply not there, something that Canada does all to often. But part of that is inexperience - the difference between a Chapman and a Dennis for example. Canada does need to, across the board, improve their ball skills. I am sure they are capable, but do not train to use them much in game situaions. I don't disagree at all about playing a more sophisticated style. I'd love to see us emulate Germany and the US teams that seem completely comfortable playing attacking soccer with whatever style is suitable to the situation. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Reza Posted October 6, 2003 Share Posted October 6, 2003 Yeah, ever since Gold cup 2000, it's been women's soccer that has been carrying the torch for soccer in Canada. Otherwise, it would have been nothing! and they have given the game a lot of credibility. Lang is probably the face of Canadian soccer right now. The "future is bright" thing though scares me...that's usually the notion in Canadian soccer and up until now hasn't proved. While Canada was a young team so was Sweden relatively speaking (25 avg age) and I am sure the same could be said about Brazil. Germany probably has a system that covers everything to the T by now and will be producing contenders forever now. Never underestimate a country that wins a world cup 9 years after being demolished. USA has 300 million to pick from and China has 1 billion to pick from. So, while Canada has the talent and it obviously should (per capita Canada is the biggest footballing nation in women's soccer), we should recognize the weaknesses and try to fix them. Canada obviously need to get more comfy with the ball and I am sure Canada can and stop treating the damn ball like it's some hot potatoe that you must get rid of as soon as possible. My only fear is that we are not going to go down that road and that's based on the U-19 displays. While all these young age theories might hold for this tournament, we were playing the same style in the U-19 tournament and inexperienced defenders or underage players were not an issue then. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chet Posted October 6, 2003 Share Posted October 6, 2003 I think Canada's average age was 22. Take Hooper and Burtini out and it's even younger still. Brazil was the youngest team in the tournament and I think the Canada-Brazil thing is going to be a pretty serious rivalry for the next few years. Brazil could easily dominate women's soccer the same way they dominate the men's game if they didn't have that macho attitude in their society to contend with. It'll be interesting to see what happens with the USA now. I know there's a lot of young talent in the U.S. But I think they really set their program back by deciding to stick entirely with veterans this time instead of bringing new blood in. Their program will have to go into rebuilding mode for the next few years. I doubt they'll be favourites in the next WWC like they were this time. (It will also be interesting to see whether they sit some of their veterans on Saturday.) The fact that we have two European teams in the final is a good sign of what the future holds wrt European women's soccer. Professional and semi-professional women's leagues are sprouting up all over Europe. They may get short shrift from the media and not much money, but they do have access to pretty good coaches. My biggest worry about Canada is that we're going to lose Hooper. I haven't seen anyone yet who can fill her shoes. Aside from Hooper, all our best players are kids. There's no doubt that this team will improve, the question is whether we'll continue to improve as rapidly as other countries do. But I'm pretty hyped about being on board for the ride, wherever it goes. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Free kick Posted October 6, 2003 Share Posted October 6, 2003 quote:Originally posted by Reza For all the talk about Sweden and their long ball style, it So, I hope that after this world cup, the brains behind Canadian soccer, whoever they are, start looking at other teams and really, nobody plays Canada's style anymore. The whole world can't be wrong!!! Don't hold your breath on this kind of change happening Reza. The canadian women just reached the semi-finals of the WC and were 15 minutes or so away from reaching the finals. As much as I loathe our style and game plan, I don't see where the CSA coaches will find urgency to change given what we have accomplished. I think we have to face the fact that this is the womens game that we are watching; not the mens. As a result we tend to discuss it in the same fashion that we discuss the mens game. comparaisons may be akin to apples and oranges. What became apparent to me in this tournament is that the womens game is clearly about strenght and fitness and little else. How else would could you explain the fact that we have had so much success yet every single team we face seems to be light years ahead of out players when it comes to technical ability or basic ball skills. Strenght is what its all about in womens soccer apparently. I noticed several instances of womens be unable to properly strike the ball with any kind of mustard and/or unable to play with both feet. Perhaps its time to give Pellerud credit for realizing what the womens game is all about and understanding what is needed to succeed. He also devised a style or game plan that is ideally suited to the attributes that the canadian women have. So for all our deficiencies in the technical and style areas, the same could be said about many if not all of our opponents with respect to size and strenght. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Canuck Oranje Posted October 6, 2003 Share Posted October 6, 2003 First off, having coached at the U-16 Girls level this past summer, Women's soccer is in good shape for many years to come. I think Kara Lang is only the tip of the iceburg. The quality is improving so fast.. On Brazil, Brazilian society is undergoing a makeover as far as the macho attitude is concerned and I doubt it will be much of an issue in a few years. I suspect that could be one of the reasons for a young team. I also suspect the ladies are primarily from middle class backgrounds in the major urban centres (Sao Paulo and Rio) as they are culturally more advanced in their attitude toward women. I think it would also be great for women's soccer to have powerhouse nations on all continents. Hopefully, Africa can produce one as well. Hey, Top four is very impressive. We can only dream about that on the men's side. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gian-Luca Posted October 6, 2003 Share Posted October 6, 2003 Where the other teams are "light-years" ahead of us is in game intelligence. Our girls have been encouraged to think strategically (either very simple attacking style or destructive defensive style), the other teams are being encouraged to be more intelligent in their play. Sweden won because their players put themselves into smarter & better positions to receive the passes from their teammates. Our players didn't, and I don't think they've really been encouraged to do so, since the emphasis is getting the ball up to the strikers asap. The skill level between their players & our kids (for the most part considerably younger) isn't that much different, but the other teams play a lot more intelligently. Case in point - one of the few creative midfielders we have, Kristina Kiss, at one point played a perfect give and go with Christine Latham, but Latham didn't anticipate the return pass and was late in getting to it and didn't get the ball in the end. Our players should be taught to anticipate that kind of return pass. You never really saw that mis-communication with the Swedes, as their players ensured they got into the right position & spaces to receive passes. Their first goal could only have been scored through great understanding as to what each player was going to do, and it is unfortunate that are only two real veteran players on the field at that time, Hooper & Neil, were both caught napping on that play. The girls gave a great effort, and they did Canada proud by going this far. They should be commended. And given the injury problems & the youth of the team, I think we should be giving them a break considering their success. I am hopeful that by the next World Cup the young players on the team will learn for themselves how to play & position themselves more intelligently, like their older Swedish, German, Chinese & American counterparts. While Pellerud has a good eye for talent, I am a bit skeptical that he will teach them the great positional play they need to take the next step & win it all. But here's hoping they do so in 2007. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gordon Posted October 6, 2003 Share Posted October 6, 2003 quote:Originally posted by Gian-Luca Where the other teams are "light-years" ahead of us is in game intelligence. Our girls have been encouraged to think strategically (either very simple attacking style or destructive defensive style), the other teams are being encouraged to be more intelligent in their play. Sweden won because their players put themselves into smarter & better positions to receive the passes from their teammates. I think that the midfield is the area that has to improve its play. The defence was decimated by injuries, and still played relatively well. We also have very good forwards. They may not be nimble quick, but they are outstanding enough that a team can win the World Cup with them. We probably have the midfield players in Moscato, Timko, Kiss and Matheson as a start. But, they have to train to play a more intelligent game as you state. We also need to develop more depth. And I think we have a good basis in the U-19 team. Reza and I watched the same tournament but came away with different conclusion quote:Originally posted by Gian-Luca Their first goal could only have been scored through great understanding as to what each player was going to do, and it is unfortunate that are only two real veteran players on the field at that time, Hooper & Neil, were both caught napping on that play. Actually, Neil did react appropriately, she was just too slow. Hooper was getting up off the gound, so it is hard to fault her. Timko was the one who was just standing around. The highlight they showed from the Swedish end really highlighted the breakdown, Neil went her mark, and was beaten for speed. Timko really was just standing there. It was sloppy by the Canadian defence overall though. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Soccer Hack Posted October 6, 2003 Share Posted October 6, 2003 On a more amusing note, on the SN broadcast, did anyone else notice that as the Swedish national anthem was about to be played that the stadium mikes picked up some of the crowd talking and you could clearly hear one of the fans say "There's no WAY that number 6 on Sweden is a woman" I nearly died laughing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Ref Posted October 6, 2003 Share Posted October 6, 2003 quote:Originally posted by Free kick Don't hold your breath on this kind of change happening Reza. The canadian women just reached the semi-finals of the WC and were 15 minutes or so away from reaching the finals. As much as I loathe our style and game plan, I don't see where the CSA coaches will find urgency to change given what we have accomplished. I think we have to face the fact that this is the womens game that we are watching; not the mens. As a result we tend to discuss it in the same fashion that we discuss the mens game. comparaisons may be akin to apples and oranges. What became apparent to me in this tournament is that the womens game is clearly about strenght and fitness and little else. How else would could you explain the fact that we have had so much success yet every single team we face seems to be light years ahead of out players when it comes to technical ability or basic ball skills. Strenght is what its all about in womens soccer apparently. I noticed several instances of womens be unable to properly strike the ball with any kind of mustard and/or unable to play with both feet. Perhaps its time to give Pellerud credit for realizing what the womens game is all about and understanding what is needed to succeed. He also devised a style or game plan that is ideally suited to the attributes that the canadian women have. So for all our deficiencies in the technical and style areas, the same could be said about many if not all of our opponents with respect to size and strenght. I am glad to find someone that agrees with me. When I read some of the posts saying that our girls are not intelligent, don't have skills, don't know how to position, don't have a passing style, etc. I just shake my head. I urge you to attend some of their training camps and watch them close. Maybe, just maybe, you may change your mind in your assessments. And that goes to opinions on the coaches as well. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gordon Posted October 6, 2003 Share Posted October 6, 2003 quote:Originally posted by Soccer Hack On a more amusing note, on the SN broadcast, did anyone else notice that as the Swedish national anthem was about to be played that the stadium mikes picked up some of the crowd talking and you could clearly hear one of the fans say "There's no WAY that number 6 on Sweden is a woman" I nearly died laughing. On the flip side, there was absolutely no doubt about numbers 4 and 17. I don't normally go for blondes, but yowza! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Reza Posted October 6, 2003 Share Posted October 6, 2003 yeah, Sweden had some impressive looking players. :-) As for the strength argument, it's hard to argue for that when 3/4 of teams in the semifinals, actually had a lot more than just strength. You could probably even bump that to 6/8 in the quarters. It definitely plays a role, but at the end of the day, the best teams have it both/employ it both: fitness/strength plus ball skills/positioning. As for arguments for Canada...well, if you keep playing games and hanging for dear life everytime, eventually you will die. The line between our Success and our possible failure, was a fine line, very fine line..just like the Gold Cup in 2000. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
matthew Posted October 6, 2003 Share Posted October 6, 2003 quote:Originally posted by Gordon On the flip side, there was absolutely no doubt about numbers 4 and 17. I don't normally go for blondes, but yowza! It was actually No. 5 Bengtsson whose womanhood was in question. I thought that was pretty funny too. Am I the only one who thinks that Victoria Svensson looks like Ray Parlour? Yeah the streotypical Swdeish blondes were impressive and yet somehow I knew Malin Moestrom (No. 6) was going to break my heart in the end. Girls that look like that always do. cheers, matthew Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hamiltonfan Posted October 6, 2003 Share Posted October 6, 2003 It was upsetting but 3 or 4th in the world will work for me. It would have been a lot nice to make it to te finals. only 11 min!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Free kick Posted October 6, 2003 Share Posted October 6, 2003 quote:Originally posted by Gian-Luca Where the other teams are "light-years" ahead of us is in game intelligence. Our girls have been encouraged to think strategically (either very simple attacking style or destructive defensive style), the other teams are being encouraged to be more intelligent in their play. Sweden won because their players put themselves into smarter & better positions to receive the passes from their teammates. Our players didn't, and I don't think they've really been encouraged to do so, since the emphasis is getting the ball up to the strikers asap. The skill level between their players & our kids (for the most part considerably younger) isn't that much different, but the other teams play a lot more intelligently. Case in point - one of the few creative midfielders we have, Kristina Kiss, at one point played a perfect give and go with Christine Latham, but Latham didn't anticipate the return pass and was late in getting to it and didn't get the ball in the end. Our players should be taught to anticipate that kind of return pass. You never really saw that mis-communication with the Swedes, as their players ensured they got into the right position & spaces to receive passes. Their first goal could only have been scored through great understanding as to what each player was going to do, and it is unfortunate that are only two real veteran players on the field at that time, Hooper & Neil, were both caught napping on that play. The girls gave a great effort, and they did Canada proud by going this far. They should be commended. And given the injury problems & the youth of the team, I think we should be giving them a break considering their success. I am hopeful that by the next World Cup the young players on the team will learn for themselves how to play & position themselves more intelligently, like their older Swedish, German, Chinese & American counterparts. While Pellerud has a good eye for talent, I am a bit skeptical that he will teach them the great positional play they need to take the next step & win it all. But here's hoping they do so in 2007. Well Put.. The race is on with the Americans in order to catch up the areas that you mentions. If we could, there is very good reason to believe that canada can win the WWC in 2007. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gian-Luca Posted October 6, 2003 Share Posted October 6, 2003 Apparently the semi-final got over 700,000 viewers on Sportsnet, 2nd greatest rating of all time for that station. The first being the U19 final from last year. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Auger9 Posted October 7, 2003 Share Posted October 7, 2003 wow! that's amazing...sportsnet's top two ratings are both women's soccer matches- that's even better! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Ref Posted October 7, 2003 Share Posted October 7, 2003 quote:Originally posted by Auger9 wow! that's amazing...sportsnet's top two ratings are both women's soccer matches- that's even better! Maybe now Sportsnet will cease with their silly "prior commitments" excuse when it comes to broadcasting Canadian soccer games. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Ref Posted October 7, 2003 Share Posted October 7, 2003 quote:Originally posted by Auger9 wow! that's amazing...sportsnet's top two ratings are both women's soccer matches- that's even better! Maybe now Sportsnet will cease with their silly "prior commitments" excuse when it comes to broadcasting Canadian soccer games. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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