canadianfoot Posted November 3, 2012 Share Posted November 3, 2012 I was wondering the other day with the current situation for soccer development in Canada: 1 --->> MLS 3 teams - and none in the near future 2 --->> NASL 2 teams - once Ottawa takes off, together with FC Edmonton......talk of Hamilton but nothing confirmed as USSF capped US teams at 75%, so we won't see any new teams probably for 3-5years I would say 3 --->> U23 League.........we will see when it happens 4 --->> CANADIAN D2 or D3 .........don't see it for now USL Pro - EAST COAST Mostly operated but would there be any future for Canadian team(s) any "purpose" at all for player development? I could see maybe a team in the GTA, Quebec City....Trois-Rivieres or Halifax..... I am mentioning only EASTERN Cities because until we see 2-3 owners on the West coast willing to fork out some money it won't happen. I am also NOT trying to talk of a "farm" team for TFC or Impact but rather something completely NEW....different ownership. Would having say a team at the USL Pro level be useful for the development of CANADIAN Players? Asking from the purely players development view, NOT Financial. Or should we stick to CSL and the Quebec League until we finally have a CANADIAN D2 or D3 god knows in how many years. I might be wrong but USL Pro would probably take in 1-2 Canadian cities willing to pay the franchise fee and have the means to operate at that level right away without any delays. Unless CSA says NO which I doubt. I see some advantages to USL Pro: - Franchises available immediately - Cheaper operating Costs - Minimum Requirements - Setup with PDL teams - Level of play "seems" above CSL, PCSL and Quebec League The Disadvantage is that USL Pro is volatile teams come and go....or used to... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ThiKu Posted November 3, 2012 Share Posted November 3, 2012 Victoria has expressed interest but with very few west coast opponents it won't happen barring significant expansion. I imagine a Seattle team would be well supported, for example. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
yothat Posted November 3, 2012 Share Posted November 3, 2012 Victoria has expressed interest but with very few west coast opponents it won't happen barring significant expansion. I imagine a Seattle team would be well supported, for example. I think the NASL just makes more sense, because if Edmonton and Ottawa joining the league. I think any Franchise would hope the USSF and NASl could make an exception considering Vancouver and Montreal were there strongest clubs. Isn't WSA Winnipeg flirting with the idea of USL or NASl. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
canadianfoot Posted November 3, 2012 Author Share Posted November 3, 2012 I think the NASL just makes more sense, because if Edmonton and Ottawa joining the league. I think any Franchise would hope the USSF and NASl could make an exception considering Vancouver and Montreal were there strongest clubs. Isn't WSA Winnipeg flirting with the idea of USL or NASl. NASL is closed to Canadian teams until they expand in the US enough to accommodate a 3rd Canadian team in order to keeps 75% US based teams in league. So any eastern Canadian city should/could join USL setup shop and then say to NASL hey we ready whenever you are. Instead of starting from scratch. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BringBackTheBlizzard Posted November 3, 2012 Share Posted November 3, 2012 NASL is closed to Canadian teams until they expand in the US enough to accommodate a 3rd Canadian team in order to keeps 75% US based teams in league. Not necessarily the USSF often issues waivers to leagues on stuff like that. Also worth noting that the NASL is now potentially up to 11 teams with the addition of the new 2014 expansion franchise that was just announced in Virginia: http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/soccer-insider/wp/2012/10/29/nasl-approves-virginia-expansion-club/ if Puerto Rico counts as American (and I have seen it claimed in the past that they have to be for legal reasons, worth noting for example that there were 8 teams in 2011 including Montreal, Edmonton and Puerto Rico) the 12th team could be Canadian even without special permission from the USSF. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
canadianfoot Posted November 3, 2012 Author Share Posted November 3, 2012 Not necessarily the USSF often issues waivers to leagues on stuff like that. Also worth noting that the NASL is now potentially up to 11 teams with the addition of the new 2014 expansion franchise that was just announced in Virginia: http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/soccer-insider/wp/2012/10/29/nasl-approves-virginia-expansion-club/ if Puerto Rico counts as American (and I have seen it claimed in the past that they have to be for legal reasons, worth noting for example that there were 8 teams in 2011 including Montreal, Edmonton and Puerto Rico) the 12th team could be Canadian even without special permission from the USSF. Good to hear if we can get another team in NASL. But is USLPro a worthy league/product? For our players to develop in? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BringBackTheBlizzard Posted November 4, 2012 Share Posted November 4, 2012 If it actually tried to do what it in theory claims to want to be (i.e. a D3 league with regional divisions and manageable travel) it might have something to offer but if it is going to continue to effectively be a rival "D2 league" to the NASL with continental scale travel I suspect it's probably best for Canadian teams to steer clear. Hopefully in time the USL Pro and NASL will sort out their differences and there will be a merger. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
foreverthursday Posted November 5, 2012 Share Posted November 5, 2012 If it actually tried to do what it in theory claims to want to be (i.e. a D3 league with regional divisions and manageable travel) it might have something to offer but if it is going to continue to effectively be a rival "D2 league" to the NASL with continental scale travel I suspect it's probably best for Canadian teams to steer clear. Hopefully in time the USL Pro and NASL will sort out their differences and there will be a merger. No, just no. Completely different business models, and the NASL is attracting the bigger and better owners, and I think there is a reason. No NASL clubs have folded, instead the struggling teams have been bought, I want to see the Holt and his filthy USL out of Canada at all levels. The CSA needs to find its own ballsack, step up, and create an all Canadian answer to the PCSL and PDL who share Division IV in Canada. Maybe when the CSL can figure itself and regulate itself better, it can start focusing on being a spectator league. We don't need America's Division III here in Canada, we need to fix our own Division III and start promoting it better and expecting more from it. In short f*** the USL, and let them allow half hearted owners in, that will fold their team after a season or two when they realize it takes effort to be successful at selling lower Division professional soccer as a quality spectator event. The NASL is getting bigger and better every single year since 2010, and it starting to garner notice. If the NASL can meet the actual demands of the USSF and have 5,000 - 6,000 all seater, soccer specific stadiums, then we can actually start seeing 5,000 - 6,000 fans at each home game. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
canadianfoot Posted November 5, 2012 Author Share Posted November 5, 2012 No, just no. Completely different business models, and the NASL is attracting the bigger and better owners, and I think there is a reason. No NASL clubs have folded, instead the struggling teams have been bought, I want to see the Holt and his filthy USL out of Canada at all levels. The CSA needs to find its own ballsack, step up, and create an all Canadian answer to the PCSL and PDL who share Division IV in Canada. Maybe when the CSL can figure itself and regulate itself better, it can start focusing on being a spectator league. We don't need America's Division III here in Canada, we need to fix our own Division III and start promoting it better and expecting more from it. In short f*** the USL, and let them allow half hearted owners in, that will fold their team after a season or two when they realize it takes effort to be successful at selling lower Division professional soccer as a quality spectator event. The NASL is getting bigger and better every single year since 2010, and it starting to garner notice. If the NASL can meet the actual demands of the USSF and have 5,000 - 6,000 all seater, soccer specific stadiums, then we can actually start seeing 5,000 - 6,000 fans at each home game. So just to clarify.....a Canadian owner in a Canadian city in USL is a NO even as a Starting point? Bcz even thou NASL is expanding we don't know when they will take more Canadian teams in. Is it better to wait say 3-5 years? While having a USL team in place your organisation is Half way ready for NASL. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
foreverthursday Posted November 5, 2012 Share Posted November 5, 2012 So just to clarify.....a Canadian owner in a Canadian city in USL is a NO even as a Starting point? Bcz even thou NASL is expanding we don't know when they will take more Canadian teams in. Is it better to wait say 3-5 years? While having a USL team in place your organisation is Half way ready for NASL. I stand by that no for a few reasons. 1. We have clubs in place that have history. Edmonton Scottish and Toronto Croatia are great examples. Advertise them, get fans to pay to see them, raise the awareness of them, and build grassroot level facilities for them. 2. By continuing to rely on the USL and the USSF, it is allowing the CSA to be less then half decent. I think if we took their safety jacket off they would swim and not sink. Our use of the USL is a cycle that keeps Canada from moving forward in league development, and it allows for sub-par leagues to float along unchanged. 3. We stay lazy as fans, who feel good watching livestream games that we could go to in person. The tipping point in Canadian soccer is proactive fans who spend money on the teams they watch. I once read a quote about art, and the idea isn't just to appreciate something, but to appreciate it by helping finance it as well. How many fans go watch WSA Winnipeg? If Winnipeg was put into a position where at least five hundred paying fans was necessary to their survival, you can bet your ass that they would push for ground level marketing. 4. The USL doesn't actually care about a teams survival at all. As long as the owner can cut a big enough franchising cheque, they will accept any hack who wants to have a team. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
youllneverwalkalone Posted November 5, 2012 Share Posted November 5, 2012 Canadian Pat Ercoli of the Rochester Rhinos has been doing a lot of chatting about MLS partnering with USL Pro/PDL to create a D2/farm system for MLS. Given the labour laws, you'd think Victoria, Hamilton, and somewhere in Quebec would be a lock. There are enough well established Southwest PDL clubs, particularly in Texas and California, to make a 10 team regional D2 work on both coasts. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BringBackTheBlizzard Posted November 5, 2012 Share Posted November 5, 2012 Worth noting that is was the NASL that got mentioned on the MLS website recently in this context rather than than USL Pro: http://www.mlssoccer.com/news/article/2012/10/18/throw-mls-nasl-closer-working-partnership http://blogs.theprovince.com/2012/10/18/mls-nasl-partnership-in-the-works/ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ted Posted November 5, 2012 Share Posted November 5, 2012 Hopefully in time the USL Pro and NASL will sort out their differences and there will be a merger. Oh Good Lord I hope not! Why would you want to destroy the American third division? It is a necessary component of a truly functional developmental pyramid and IMO the best route forward for US soccer as it moves away from the collegiate model that has retarded development for decades. On the broader question I don't know that we need it here (both locally and more broadly in Canada) and my heart tells me to support a Canadian national D3 as we have discussed before. However, if they could put together a west coast USL Pro conference my brain would be making a rational argument in favour of Victoria going that route for the advantages it would have. Since there is no sign of this however and it may be possible to develop a D3 league here in Canada it seems there will be little choice. Either way, it would be nice if someone would put something real on the table. Is the CSA ever going to move on the Rethink report? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
foreverthursday Posted November 6, 2012 Share Posted November 6, 2012 Our reliance on American leagues below Division I & II are crippling our player development and allowing the CSA to be lazy in league development. The CSA needs to grow a pair. Everyone wants a reform in player development after the Honduras fiasco, but still wants to rely on the USSF to have the best for Canadian interest? The CSA is lazy and just wants to piggyback off of the USSF. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Macksam Posted November 6, 2012 Share Posted November 6, 2012 Our reliance on American leagues below Division I & II are crippling our player development and allowing the CSA to be lazy in league development. The CSA needs to grow a pair. Everyone wants a reform in player development after the Honduras fiasco, but still wants to rely on the USSF to have the best for Canadian interest? The CSA is lazy and just wants to piggyback off of the USSF. It depends. If we jump off the deep end and really go with it, like having 12 USL pro teams in Canada, we'd be in a good situation. The problem right now is that our teams are fragmented all over the place. I'm going to take a wild guess and assume Tony Waiters has the above in mind, aggressive USL expansion. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Redcoatsforever Posted November 6, 2012 Share Posted November 6, 2012 It depends. If we jump off the deep end and really go with it, like having 12 USL pro teams in Canada, we'd be in a good situation. The problem right now is that our teams are fragmented all over the place. I'm going to take a wild guess and assume Tony Waiters has the above in mind, aggressive USL expansion. If the clubs are stable and London gets one, I'm all for it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
coppercanuck Posted November 9, 2012 Share Posted November 9, 2012 I have to agree about Canadian independence. We can develop a bunch of players who can handle sketchy fields, time zone travel and extreme temperatures right here. Players who can step up to the crazies in the Carib and Central America. IF the CSL is the league we hitch the horse to then the champ needs $100k prize and a spot for something bigger (ie V-Cup). Realign so that the top division is 8 teams (7 away games). Promotion / relegation play-offs keep the pressure high so that the players are better equipped to handle that stress. It also helps to keep the best players playing against the best rather than running up the score. Edmonton Scottish 12-0-1 and a +23 gd? Not like some this year but still too easy. CSL2-west might include Winnipeg, Edmonton Scottish and FC Edmonton Reserves and the other PDL and PCSL teams. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BringBackTheBlizzard Posted November 9, 2012 Share Posted November 9, 2012 I have to agree about Canadian independence. We can develop a bunch of players who can handle sketchy fields, time zone travel and extreme temperatures right here. Players who can step up to the crazies in the Carib and Central America. IF the CSL is the league we hitch the horse to.... Given regular season travel to Antigua, Florida and southern California is involved USLPro would be very much a D2 level of operations in Canadian sanctioning terms so there is no either/or type of scenario where the CSL is concerned. There is definitely a niche for some sort of semi-pro D3 setup with divisions centred on each of the major cities but it doesn't have much relevance to what happens with the national team. I think Elvis Thomas was the last CSL player to be called up by the national team and that was over a decade ago. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
canadianfoot Posted November 18, 2012 Author Share Posted November 18, 2012 It depends. If we jump off the deep end and really go with it, like having 12 USL pro teams in Canada, we'd be in a good situation. The problem right now is that our teams are fragmented all over the place. I'm going to take a wild guess and assume Tony Waiters has the above in mind, aggressive USL expansion. With 12 USL Pro teams in Canada we would have a LEAGUE, LOL. Do we ever need a D3 in our country something independant from the US system. Where we can have our players develop Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Macksam Posted November 20, 2012 Share Posted November 20, 2012 With 12 USL Pro teams in Canada we would have a LEAGUE, LOL. That would be the ultimate hope. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
canadianfoot Posted November 21, 2012 Author Share Posted November 21, 2012 That would be the ultimate hope. yesssss Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Archived
This topic is now archived and is closed to further replies.