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De Vos: How do we fix Canadian soccer?

johnmolinaro

By johnmolinaro
in Men's National Teams

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Sam Newbie

Sam

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I took community coaching levels 1 and 2 over the last two weekends. I now have the qualifications to coach up to U14 regional. Let me just say these coaches don't bring you even near to the level you should be to be coaching at this level.

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Sam Newbie

Sam

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I took community coaching levels 1 and 2 over the last two weekends. I now have the qualifications to coach up to U14 regional. Let me just say these coaches don't bring you even near to the level you should be to be coaching at this level.

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Eric Newbie

Eric

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quote:Originally posted by squid2

Problem is theses coaches are not keen on the CSA.

For example:

Tony Fonseca's appointment to the U20 team.

The call letter seeking a coach clearly stated the candidate: "Shall possess a current recognized ‘A’ license, or be currently enrolled in an ‘A’ license course with completion by end of 2009".

Fonseca does not have a CSA A, nor was he enrolled at the time of his appointment for the CSA A. Fonseca was a Hart appointment before the call letter even went out; the deal was done!

The inner circle of the CSA knew this; the staff coaches all talk to each other. Those that are staff coaches want off the $200 per day diem roller coacster and on the payroll - so it’s cut throat.

The guys on the outside, those with A licenses from elsewhere, are essentially lied to. So when the u20'S crashed out - things got dirty.

I don't get this!.. so here we are thinking that people like Steven Hart was the saviour in a corrupt world of coaching development manipulation by the provincial associations but instead he is one of the problems? shame on you Steven...

Oh man! I used to believe this guy was different [V]

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loyola Newbie

loyola

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quote:Originally posted by Eric

Yup, I remember that excellent challenge by Massing, a shame the corrupt ref gave him a red card for that. That was all ball!!!

Well, I guess Tobo has to present some explanation on who he really is. Let's remember that Massing went to 1 WC while Tobo claim he played in 2 WC....what was his name in the other WC???

Like I've said Massing was living in Cameroon in 2004.

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prizby Newbie

prizby

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if I were to fix the CSA, we need to look at what was successful (I made a big long post as a comment to Jason's blog)

my two things were lets look what has worked in North America (modeling something that works in Europe is not good because there are many difference between NA and Europe)

2 factors that I have noticed that have worked

1. IMG Acadamy in Florida...if we had something like that in Canada where the elite youth players can train and play together at a young age, maybe we could develop some really good talent...that would also want to play for Canada so the De Guzman's of the world don't have to make their break in Europe.

2. What youth program do we have in Canada that works and has turned out many stars in their sport. Well that would be hockey. From the grassroots right up to the NHL, Canada has maybe the best. This is all controlled by Hockey Canada. We need to model a grassroots program that can succeed. It has worked for hockey, it should work for Canada, why not try something that has worked instead of trying something new and untested?

With that being said, the last big change that has to happen is the leadership at the CSA, one that will bring success in a relatively short period (7-8 years is my home, more realistically 10-15) has to start at the head...I honestly believe Bob Nicholson if he is interested in a challenge would be the ideal head for developing a program from the ground up.

Anyways, my two cents

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DoyleG Collaborator

DoyleG

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quote:Originally posted by prizby

2. What youth program do we have in Canada that works and has turned out many stars in their sport. Well that would be hockey. From the grassroots right up to the NHL, Canada has maybe the best. This is all controlled by Hockey Canada. We need to model a grassroots program that can succeed. It has worked for hockey, it should work for Canada, why not try something that has worked instead of trying something new and untested?

1) Hockey Canada has nothing to do with the NHL.

2) Canadian hockey still relies heavily on volunteers no different than those involved in soccer.

3) Hockey Canada has no full time national programs.

4) None of their head coaches are full-time, long-term coaches.

5) The grassroots in hockey isn't that well organized.

6) What works in Hockey doesn't work in Soccer.

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VPjr Newbie

VPjr

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Guys, this is a really good, constructive thread. I've enjoyed reading it. These are the types of discussions that are taking place between passionate soccer people throughout this country every day, people who will speak openly that the system is broken and who are keen to help fix it as best as possible. It's going to be a long road to get where we want to go but I'm confident that, eventually, we'll get there. You have to believe that if this many people keep beating down the doors, eventually seeing some progress. I personally have to make myself believe it or I wouldn't spend so much time on it.

The Ref: As Squid pointed out, yes there are plenty of people working for change in the system. Some of them are inside the system, most are outside, trying to push and prod the people in charge to do what they know is right and fight against the status quo mafia. Its a tiring fight sometimes. Myself, I'm still at it, just being a bit more subtle about it. However, I only have so much patience. Things have to change. "step by step" is the favorite catch phrase of one of the people I respect the most within the system but I (and others) need to see more than tiny baby steps to be satisfied. At some points, we need to take a couple of large leaps, especially in the area of governance reform and re-balancing the relationship between the CSA and the Provinces (especially the relationship between the OSA and the CSA, which is not a good relationship in my opinion).

JPG: congrats on getting your coaching certificates. I got my Youth certificate last year so that I could be a bit better prepared to coach my U7 house league team. I wanted good ideas for running practices. I can say that I left the course pleased with the notebook full of drills but I was very upset to see that I was the only House League coach in the class. The rest were there getting their levels so they could meet the minimum standard to coach REP. I almost fell over. At the end of the class, I told the instructor that the OSA is doing a major disservice to our kids by permitting that half assed program (where attendance is the only requirement for passing) to be sufficient for rep coaching.

I am told the CSA is looking at creating a Youth Coach licensing program that is significantly more involved than the present Community Coaching course (the USSF and NSCAA already have excellent curriculums in this regard so hopefully the CSA can get it up and running ASAP because its desperately needed). Lets hope that all the provinces fall into line and follow the CSA standard (I'm looking at you OSA).

Regarding your concerns that there are not enough National A and B licensed coaches, I would say that we do not have 500 clubs in Canada at this moment who would qualify for a National Charter Club status if I were writing the standard so I would say we have more than enough of people with those licenses. Of course, we need more. Also, keep in mind that we have people who have A licenses (or equivalent from countries other than Canada because the CSA license is not really that well regarded and its not a license that you can use to work outside of Canada.

If you look back at when the USSF introduced its club academy development program, if memory serves, less than 200 clubs applied for entry into the program and only 64 clubs made the grade in the first year. I don't believe we have 64 clubs in Canada that would make the USSF grade and the USSF standard is the minimum starting point in my opinion. We need to make it HARD to be called a licensed sanctioned soccer club in Canada. There is no shame in being a classified as a Youth Soccer League that can only run House League and "All-Star" programs that ultimately feed players into bigger clubs (but I'd make those youth league organizations adhere to minimum standards too).

Loyola: I'm not sure if Patrick has or has not played in the World Cup. If he is telling people he did, I certainly hope he is telling the truth. However, I can assure you that he is perhaps the most highly regarded youth coach in Ontario. he is the real deal. In my opinion, he should be coaching the U17 MNT right now, but again, the CSA chose to give it to someone on the payroll already, regardless of qualifications to do the job.

Squid: Always enjoy your insights. I emailed you the survey...I look forward to your replies. I've already started getting some good replies (thanks Trillium)

So people know, I have been invited (to my surprise) by the OSA to participate as a panellist at the feature seminar of this year's OSA Play Soccer conference in Ottawa. The seminar that I will be participating in is called "Benefits of OSA Membership". This seminar will occur on Sunday, April 19.

The format will consist of a panel of four individuals. Two of the panellists will speak favourably about the OSA and highlight the benefits of the organization. The other two panellists will talk about the gaps in the OSA program, point out the areas where the OSA could be more productive, and address areas where the OSA should not be involved. Not surprisingly, I have been asked to serve as one of the panellists that takes the "anti-OSA" side.

I have drafted a survey email which I am distributing to people on my mailing list that I know have experience with the OSA. I am seeking input and feedback. Of course, I have my opinions but I would prefer to TRY to represent the opinions of soccer community at large, not just my own. My experiences are more limited than those of many other people. If anyone wants to complete my survey (ideally people from Ontario, who have experience dealing with the OSA) please shoot me an email and I will gladly forward it to you.

I'll be up in Ottawa next weekend (arriving Saturday, late morning). If any V's want to get together for a beer, let me know (maybe we can go catch TFC's game at a bar or something).

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loyola Newbie

loyola

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quote:Originally posted by Eric

How do you know he was living in Cameroon in 2004?

I wish somebody can interview him to clear all this out.

He signed a public letter concerning former Cameroon keeper Joseph Antoine Bell running for the Cameroonian elections. His adress and phone number were in Cameroon.

What does explain the change of name?

VPjr: I don't doubt a second Mr. Tobo coaching qualifications, it's just that kind of things must be sort out before he is hired to work with one of our Youth National teams (he already did BTW with the Franco Games). Having false informations on your CV is not a really good thing. I'm not saying it's 100 % false but so far I would need more proof to believe him.

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Eric Newbie

Eric

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^ I agree with you, he should clarified where and when he played for the national team if in fact that is stipulated in his CV.

But none of this has anything to do with the fact that Tobo is one of the best coaches we have in Canada.

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Most Scottish Man in Cdn. Newbie

Most Scottish Man in Cdn.

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Personally, I love this debate about whether or not he played for Cameroon. And even if he is great with the kids I think it does say a lot about a person's professionalism, general reliability if they lie on their CV (if he did). I recently met a guy who claimed he'd played with Canada 8 times during some sort of tour/tournament in Europe - while playing semi-pro hockey in Germany (and of course even if you win the World Cup you've played one game less than that in a month) including our historic first win over England. Man I wish I'd known. I'd have watched on TV...

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loyola Newbie

loyola

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I think it's important to clarify that, specially if he is a candidate for a CSA coaching job in the future. Playing experience is always a part of a coach experience, so finding if he did or didn't play for Cameroon in 2 WC is important IMO. Of course, it isn't really on subject but is it the first thread highjack in the V's history?

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loyola Newbie

loyola

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quote:Originally posted by joeboy

Maybe the guy played in a couple world cups for cameroon as a youth player?

Nope, nothing can be found about this as well. He also told one of the V's (working as a journalist during the Canada games) that he had been ejected from that Argentina game in 1990. So, he's saying he is Benjamin Massing.

I've done a few more search on the subject to find out where Mr. Massing is at the moment. I've found an article about the whereabouts of the 1990 Cameroon players (it's in french):

http://www.camlions.com/fr/news.php?nid=8457

As of 2005, Massing was working as a business man in his home city of Edéa in Cameroon.

Here's another link to a forum where one poster (discussion from 2007) is confirming that Massing is working in Edéa but also add that he has recently pass a FIFA coaching license:

http://74.53.196.185/cin_reactions.php?s_id=18814

I also find a paragraph from an article about Massing career(can't access the full story for some reasons) saying that Massing has gain some pounds since the days and that he is currently working in Edéa.

I can now say with some certitude that Tobo isn't Massing.

So, the questions remain....Who is Patrick Tobo and did he really played in 2 WC???

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Eric Newbie

Eric

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quote:Originally posted by loyola

Nope, nothing can be found about this as well. He also told one of the V's (working as a journalist during the Canada games) that he had been ejected from that Argentina game in 1990. So, he's saying he is Benjamin Massing.

I've done a few more search on the subject to find out where Mr. Massing is at the moment. I've found an article about the whereabouts of the 1990 Cameroon players (it's in french):

http://www.camlions.com/fr/news.php?nid=8457

As of 2005, Massing was working as a business man in his home city of Edéa in Cameroon.

Here's another link to a forum where one poster (discussion from 2007) is confirming that Massing is working in Edéa but also add that he has recently pass a FIFA coaching license:

http://74.53.196.185/cin_reactions.php?s_id=18814

I also find a paragraph from an article about Massing career(can't access the full story for some reasons) saying that Massing has gain some pounds since the days and that he is currently working in Edéa.

I can now say with some certitude that Tobo isn't Massing.

So, the questions remain....Who is Patrick Tobo and did he really played in 2 WC???

There is a picture of him in the second floor of the Soccer Centre in Toronto, playing in some sort of U-23 tournament, possibly pre olympic tourny with the Cameroon national team, I saw it many times. This is a fun mystery.

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