De Vos: How do we fix Canadian soccer?

[jpg75]

Here are a few ideas, some are mine and others are borrowed:

- Mandate that all clubs hire a CSA B Licenced Technical Director. Alot of the big clubs have one, but alot don't. Having a TD would create a mentor for all coaches at the club, the TD would observe and provide feedback to every coach for atleast one practice session and one game per season.

- Mandate that clubs host an orientation & development session for all house league coaches. You can currently coach house league without any coaching education. Make it a one day course, give these volunteers some basic knowledge.

- Toughen up the requirements for coaching Rep. especially at the elite levels at U14+ such as OYSL. There are already a bunch of B Licence coaches at that level, but IMO every OYSL Head Coach should have a B Licence.

- Revamping the coaching cerifications. Currently you can pass the Community Coaching program in Ontario without writting a test, 4 days of instruction and voila!, a piece of paper that makes you capable of coaching rep. Maybe a CC should only be able to coach Select or be a Rep. asst in that case.

I also propose:

OSA C Licence: A 3 day course that absorbs some of the material from the B Licence, the final test would takeover from the current Pre-B assessment. Perhaps make this the requirement for coaching rep.

CSA B Licence: 5 day course would absorb some of the material from the A Licence course and be required to coach elite U14+ level.

CSA A Licence: Year long course would be revamped to better reflect the level of a UEFA A Licence education.

- Re-organization of the NTC's and better identification of pre-Academy age talent. With TFC, Vancouver and Montreal taking on a role of developing players (aswell as elite players going to Europe) between the ages of 15-18 i think the NTC's roles need to change. Let's make them a 13-16 (from current 15-18) talent identification centre. At the ages of 13 and 14 the # of pupils would be doubled, but a rotation would be used so that kids only get half the time they'd normally get. One group of kids comes in this month, and the other batch comes in next month, this way more kids get looked at and exposed to high level coaching at an early age.

[Tuscan]

One of the main problems that no one seems to realize (or have mentioned so far) is that the leagues control where franchises are granted. Of course if the business plan is solid and the financial backing is strong, a franchise will most likely be granted. As for Canada, however, things change when it comes to both the USL and MLS.

Currently the USL only sees Calgary as a viable option for Canadian expansion. After talking with Matt Weibe at USL HQ, it was explained to me that USL-1 is heading toward a population restriction of no less than 1 million within a reasonable distance (I believe 1 hour from the center). PDL is restricted due to travel costs (which is understandable, as it would be financial suicide to set up a PDL team in any center more than 6 hours away from its nearest competitor). MLS of course has gone completely elitist, and appears to have only a specific set of locations it is even really willing to look at (unless a Mr. Green like Melnyk shows up). Until it can be shown to the USL that Canadian centers are better places for teams to be established than in some place like Cincinnati, I don't think we will see much in the way of new professional club soccer in Canada.

It can take around $2.0 million to get off the ground for USL-1.

On another note, we won't see youth development programs being started up without more professional clubs starting up first. We need to emulate what Canadian hockey has done, in the sense that parents need to see where their kids can get. They need to be shown that soccer in Canada is a serious sport with a monetary end of some sort, that it isn't just a recreational sport worth putting their kid in just because it's cheaper than hockey.

Things will change in the next twenty years as my brother's generation starts having kids. I base this on Saskatchewan soccer, as he was in the first generation where soccer saw its first real boom in Saskatchewan (mid to late 80s). My generation is also going to create another boom in soccer with our kids, as I was part of Saskatchewan's player boom of the mid 90s (well... 92 - 96). This of course won't happen for another 15 years probably, but having a pro club in Saskatchewan would probably significantly help, as I'm sure it would and is in centers around the country.

[Saviola7]

quote:Originally posted by jpg75

Here are a few ideas, some are mine and others are borrowed:

- Mandate that all clubs hire a CSA B Licenced Technical Director. Alot of the big clubs have one, but alot don't. Having a TD would create a mentor for all coaches at the club, the TD would observe and provide feedback to every coach for atleast one practice session and one game per season.

- Mandate that clubs host an orientation & development session for all house league coaches. You can currently coach house league without any coaching education. Make it a one day course, give these volunteers some basic knowledge.

- Toughen up the requirements for coaching Rep. especially at the elite levels at U14+ such as OYSL. There are already a bunch of B Licence coaches at that level, but IMO every OYSL Head Coach should have a B Licence.

- Revamping the coaching cerifications. Currently you can pass the Community Coaching program in Ontario without writting a test, 4 days of instruction and voila!, a piece of paper that makes you capable of coaching rep. Maybe a CC should only be able to coach Select or be a Rep. asst in that case.

I also propose:

OSA C Licence: A 3 day course that absorbs some of the material from the B Licence, the final test would takeover from the current Pre-B assessment. Perhaps make this the requirement for coaching rep.

CSA B Licence: 5 day course would absorb some of the material from the A Licence course and be required to coach elite U14+ level.

CSA A Licence: Year long course would be revamped to better reflect the level of a UEFA A Licence education.

- Re-organization of the NTC's and better identification of pre-Academy age talent. With TFC, Vancouver and Montreal taking on a role of developing players (aswell as elite players going to Europe) between the ages of 15-18 i think the NTC's roles need to change. Let's make them a 13-16 (from current 15-18) talent identification centre. At the ages of 13 and 14 the # of pupils would be doubled, but a rotation would be used so that kids only get half the time they'd normally get. One group of kids comes in this month, and the other batch comes in next month, this way more kids get looked at and exposed to high level coaching at an early age.

Nice idea(s), but do you run the risk of losing coaches? A lot of these coaches are volunteers that may just say "screw it" if it's too much work. But I don't really know ... are people lining up to coach soccer or is there a shortage?

[ChrisB]

quote:Originally posted by Saviola7

Nice idea(s), but do you run the risk of losing coaches? A lot of these coaches are volunteers that may just say "screw it" if it's too much work. But I don't really know ... are people lining up to coach soccer or is there a shortage?

I dunno - I think this could cut both ways - I would imagine that there are a lot of coaches out there who would jump at the chance to improve their coaching skills. After all, if somebody is willing to put out the type of effort required to a coach a team at ANY level (be it house, rep, u-17, U-9, whatever), chances are they like the sport and are the type of person who would be eager to become better.

[jpg75]

^ Saviola7, at which levels (house league, rep., OYSL) do you think the coaches would get frustated and quit?

For house league i think 1 day of education provided by their club isn't asking too much, alot of them would probably welcome some help. Having a TD would also make them feel like they're not going it alone.

Rep. coaches already have to go through 4 days of instruction (1+1+2) to get the CC licence, this would add 3 more days. Some clubs already help offset the costs by picking up the tab on some certifications. But you could be right, there might be some lazy or cheap ones who wouldn't want to do this. Maybe the CC Licence could be scrapped and make the C Licence 6 days or something? But there must be a test, there's got to be some quality control.

Most OYSL coaches appear to me to be ambitious. Then again, i've only met a few and all of them were B Licenced, with 2 of them being OSA Staff coaches so maybe my sample size is too small.

[Eric]

quote:Originally posted by Saviola7

If you run the risk of losing "coaches" because they need to lose a few hours of their prescious time to educate themselves for the benefit of the kids... then who needs those people anyway. Those are the ones that stop the sport from growing properly.

Clubs need to start being more selective with the "coaches" they let into their organizations, if those people are not committed to quality, they should stay out of it altogether. We already have too many of those in high places in the OSA and CSA and look where we are.

I don't agree either with the idea that a B Licence is enough to become a TD, nowdays in Canada anybody can get a B Licence, if we want the sport to grow properly then we need TDs with an A Licence. That will also employ all those A Licence coaches we have in Canada. We have to once and for all walk away from mediocrity.

[jpg75]

quote:Originally posted by Eric

I don't agree either with the idea that a B Licence is enough to become a TD, nowdays in Canada anybody can get a B Licence, if we want the sport to grow properly then we need TDs with an A Licence. That will also employ all those A Licence coaches we have in Canada. We have to once and for all walk away from mediocrity.

That's funny, cuz i was wondering if maybe there weren't enough coaches with B Licences in this country to fill all the TD positions and elite provincial level rep. teams like OYSL. How many clubs are there in Canada? A thousand? Plus probably close to that many elite rep. teams. I think that's definitely more than the # of coahces with B Licences in this country, we'd have to get alot of people in the system and certified. Maybe what should be done is if a club is a certain size, like over 500 or 1000 kids they should be required to have an A Licenced TD. If they're less than 1000 then a B Licence is fine?

I remember L.T. suggesting that OYSL should charter clubs instead of having pro/rel, that way the same 20 big clubs with resources and know-how play in OYSL at every age group. Perhaps mandate that if a club is an OYSL member and their OYSL coaches have to have B Licences then it makes sense to have an A Licenced TD.

[Vic]

Besides overhauling the CSA, fixing soccer in Canada is as simple as giving the world class players we have who are identified at 9 and 10 quality coaching from that point on and not 13 or 14 when they normally get it. The system we have now works for late bloomers. We just completely fail with the great little kids. If we don't have the pro clubs to do it we just have to find a way to use our infrastructure to do it. And we're only talking about 1 in 250 kids.

[Eric]

quote:Originally posted by jpg75

That's funny, cuz i was wondering if maybe there weren't enough coaches with B Licences in this country to fill all the TD positions and elite provincial level rep. teams like OYSL.

Here you go, here is the answer to your question http://www.canadasoccer.com/coaching/programs/Status_check_20081204.pdf

we already have enough certified coaches to take care of our system, but as long as clubs and provincial associations keep being run by amateurs, having all these capable coaches in our country is like having a Ferrari park in the driveway and not having money to put gas and get it out on the road.

[jpg75]

^ It's a good tool, i checked it out last year.

Since the new program took effect in 2003 we have a total of 54 A Licence graduates and roughly 400+ B Licenced coaches. There are clearly not enough A or B Licenced coaches in Canada to fill every club TD spot if it were mandated. We'd have to rapidly expand their numbers to do so. I think it's probably best to first mandate a B Licence TD for all clubs first, then work on getting more B Licenced coaches in the system to fill all the TD spots and elite rep. coaching spots, and then work on getting them all A Licenced to work at the bigger clubs.

*** Props to River City for being B Licenced, i noticed your name on the list [^]

[squid2]

quote:Originally posted by The Ref

This may be construed as a silly question by some. In any event it is directed mainly a VPjr who always seems to be well informed and was the initiator of the CSF. I ask if there is currently any person or organization anywhere in the country who is working, hands on, towards causing change in the CSA? If not, I will just have to settle in praying for a miracle. I wish we as a group would have more power to cause change, rather than just raise dust on the road.

Several!

And not just based in Ontario either.

In fact the OSA thinks they could/should run the whole thing because they are the largest contributor of registrants and revenue to the CSA. This would not be a good thing (no disrespect to Bradbury, but he's just a figurehead and part of the bureaucracy).

Healthy groups in BC and Alberta are working to seek significant changes. I'm also aware of a people in Quebec that are working towards changes as well, except I have little interaction with them as I have limited french language skills.

Edit:

Dino,

Stephen called me. I will help with that request.

[squid2]

quote:Originally posted by loyola

I think having people like Dasovic, Bent, Liminiatis and a few others in the staff of our pro clubs is already a good sign. We need to give it time IMO and let them developp as coaches. I don't think the CSA should make rules like you suggested that would surely be contested by the clubs because of the interference in their own business.

Bent, Dasovic and Liminiatis certainly give reason to be optimistic about Canadian coaches.

Problem is theses coaches are not keen on the CSA.

For example:

Tony Fonseca's appointment to the U20 team.

The call letter seeking a coach clearly stated the candidate: "Shall possess a current recognized ‘A’ license, or be currently enrolled in an ‘A’ license course with completion by end of 2009".

Fonseca does not have a CSA A, nor was he enrolled at the time of his appointment for the CSA A. Fonseca was a Hart appointment before the call letter even went out; the deal was done!

The inner circle of the CSA knew this; the staff coaches all talk to each other. Those that are staff coaches want off the $200 per day diem roller coacster and on the payroll - so it’s cut throat.

The guys on the outside, those with A licenses from elsewhere, are essentially lied to. So when the u20'S crashed out - things got dirty.

Who do you guys think informed Mitchell of his sacking, it was an ex CSA coach, not Hart. Same thing when Bridge replaced Rosenfeld with the u17 women’s - it was Bridge calling Rosenfeld to ask for his notes that Rosenfeld learned he was out. Not from Hart.

Bent, Dasovic and Liminiatis all know how the CSA "functions", so I don't think that anyone should be surprised when these guys don't drop their current gigs to jump back and take a step down to the Cirque de CSA.

The CSA has a serious credibility issue, and its deep within their own people, never mind us outsiders.

For my money, the u20 coach should have been Patrick Tobo, a former world cup player with Cameroon, a National A License Coach, and currently coaching an Ontario provincial coach. He's very talented, works well and interacts very positively with younger players and generally has a very good rapport with players. Problem is, senior staff coaches are threatened by his abilities.

He's a damn good coach.

[squid2]

jpg75 is on the right track with re-vamping, enhancing and tightening up the coaching standards.

Ambitious coaches will pursue the craft.

Assessment has to occur earlier and more frequently on a more comprehensive level than it currently does.

As it stands now, on a given Friday a dad/coach has no license; but after the weekend course, he's a certified coach. That's crap - he's no better of a coach, perhaps more prepared to "organize" a kick about, but technically he's no better suited/qualified on the Monday than he was the on prior Friday.

Developing coaches is a process, not an event. It takes more time than just a spare weekend, handing over $$$$ and an ability to stay awake.

The community programs are great for mom & dads who've never played the game; but that's all they're good for. Rec players, new players, new coaches, and the u10 and under segment of the game.

A whole new curriculum is required for the u11+, the late bloomers / the golden age of learning; the rep programs, the elite player development programs, position specific programs (goalkeepers, defending, finishing), tactics, LOTG.

CSA has a long way to go on a number of fronts.

We're never going to develop quality players if we can't develop quality coaches.

Here's a sample.

In Ontario, come April, say within a space of 3-5 weeks a "coach" can travel to neighbouring districts and complete each community coach requirement; that coach can then coach that season and then register to take the Pre B in the fall. All it takes is time and money. Little experience. And it happens.

Here's a quick review of the Pre B.

Pre B - What is it?

If, after reaching the certificate level, a coach wishes to pursue further certification levels, the CSA offers a Coach Licensing Program. To assist coaches in preparing for the CSA's licensing program, the Alberta Soccer Association offers a 'B License Pre-Test'. Entry into the CSA's licensing program is dependent on applying for and passing a formal 'pre-test' (assessment of playing and coaching ability).

The pre-requisite for this course is a full Community Coach Certificate (Completion of the Child, Youth, & Senior Courses).

Pretty low standards imho.

in Alberta

http://www.albertasoccer.com/index.php?submenu=CoachingDevelopment&src=gendocs&ref=PreB&category=CoachingDevelopment

South - Calgary

Fri. May 8 6-9pm Sat. May 9 10am- 6pm Sun. May 10 10am - 2pm

15 hours, Cost: $225 (includes GST)

in BC

http://www.bcsoccer.net/bcsa/COACHES/CoachingClinics/ClinicsBLicensePreTest/tabid/169/Default.aspx

Course Length: 20 hours, Course Fee: $275

in Saskatchewan

http://209.200.117.136/web/ssa/default.aspx?cid=1754〈=1

Pre B Course - approx 12 hours over a 2 day span (usually done within Friday-Saturday or Saturday-Sunday).

No dates yet listed - no fee listed.

in Manitoba

http://www.manitobasoccer.ca/coaching/clinics.html

For coaches that have fully completed the Community Coach Program (50 units) or have

NCCP Level 3 Technical (prior to 1999).

Cost $40.00

Minimum participants at each clinic is 10 and the maximum is 15.

in Ontario

http://soccer.on.ca/OSN.nsf/1422de1221eb9886852568170050f4f6/96e5f32ae9730cff8525681c007d3a8b?OpenDocument

Pre "B" Assessment Course 4 Days - typically 2 consecutive weekends, 32 hours

fee varies from District Association to District Association

Typically $300+

in Nova Scotia

http://www.soccerns.ns.ca/images/scans1.pdf

Length of Course: 2 Days, Course cost: $100

Quick summary....

A national coaching license is a CSA initiative, however the disparity in how the Pre B is administered is significant. And there is a history of very common concerns, complaints and problems.

The duration and cost are 2 obvious differences.

Also of concern is the continuity and consistency of evaluation and assessment of candidates.

The fail rate is significant in Ontario; easily in excess of 70% per session.

Some coaches head to "other" provinces to obtain their provincial B.

Ultimately it's a money maker for district associations and some provincial associations.

It’s very unfortunate that Mr. Hart has failed to address the national disparity of the pre B.

Internationally, a CSA issued license isn't recognized. The USSF, The FA, UEFA, essentially no other FA of significance will recognize it on par. Ask someone who has multiple licenses from foreign FA's about receiving "exemptions based on equivalency" no one has!

The CSA issued licenses are not worth the paper its printed on outside of Canada.

Whatever turn Hart decides to take with regard to developing coaches, I hope he looks long and hard at the UEFA model and it's standards.

[loyola]

quote:Originally posted by squid2

For my money, the u20 coach should have been Patrick Tobo, a former world cup player with Cameroon, a National A License Coach, and currently coaching an Ontario provincial coach. He's very talented, works well and interacts very positively with younger players and generally has a very good rapport with players. Problem is, senior staff coaches are threatened by his abilities.

He's a damn good coach.

In which World Cup did Mr. Tobo played with Cameroon? I just took a look at Cameroon squad for the 1982, 1990, 1994 and 1998 WC and his name never appeared....

[Eric]

^ 1990 in Italy, he got red carded in the opening game of that WC when they beat Argentina.

[loyola]

Here's the FIFA match report from that game, did Tobo played under another name?

http://fr.fifa.com/worldcup/archive/edition=76/results/matches/match=26/report.html

[jpg75]

Andre Kana in French translates to Patrick Tobo in English

[jpg75]

Hey Squid, nice post!

I pulled off the Child and Youth certifications on back to back weekends in February. I didn't bother with the Senior component only because it wasn't offered by the club. I have yet to coach 1 day in my life and i'm a 2 day course away from the Pre-B [:0]

[squid2]

quote:Originally posted by loyola

In which World Cup did Mr. Tobo played with Cameroon? I just took a look at Cameroon squad for the 1982, 1990, 1994 and 1998 WC and his name never appeared....

I don't know.

I've never had cause to question him. I've seen his sessions a few times. He's good with the players. But as an aside, my contribution on Tobo was based on his biography that he distributed at a camp that he participated in as a featured instructor.

If anyone's willing to seek clarity, here's his contact info:

Patrick Tobo - Phone: 416 ###-#### email: ptobo@soccer.on.ca

USA and Canadian A licensed Coach

Played for Cameroon National team in two World Cups

Played Professionally in Cameroon, France and Canada

Please share if you find that my contribution is inaccurate.

[loyola]

quote:Originally posted by squid2

I don't know.

I've never had cause to question him. I've seen his sessions a few times. He's good with the players. But as an aside, my contribution on Tobo was based on his biography that he distributed at a camp that he participated in as a featured instructor.

If anyone's willing to seek clarity, here's his contact info:

Patrick Tobo - Phone: 416 ###-#### email: ptobo@soccer.on.ca

USA and Canadian A licensed Coach

Played for Cameroon National team in two World Cups

Played Professionally in Cameroon, France and Canada

Please share if you find that my contribution is inaccurate.

Hi squid2,

I always appreciate your inputs, you probably have the best inside informations of the V's. Always good to read you!

On the case of Tobo, I just made a search on the FIFA website where they list every squad of every WC of every gender and age group that was played in the history of the association and couldn't find anything about him playing for Cameroon in a WC.

If he make that claim in his bio there should be some proof of it somewhere. He wouldn't be the first foreigner to make such a claim when coaching or playing in Canada. Here in Quebec City we've had a load of those in the past 20 years and that's because most parents and players are very naive...

I won't ask him proof (maybe he just played with the national team but never in a WC?) but I'm often suspicious when I hear that kind of story.

Anyways, he might be an excellent coach regardless of his playing career achievements.

[squid2]

quote:Originally posted by loyolaHi squid2,

On the case of Tobo, I just made a search on the FIFA website where they list every squad of every WC of every gender and age group that was played in the history of the association and couldn't find anything about him playing for Cameroon in a WC.

If he make that claim in his bio there should be some proof of it somewhere. He wouldn't be the first foreigner to make such a claim when coaching or playing in Canada. Here in Quebec City we've had a load of those in the past 20 years and that's because most parents and players are very naive...

I won't ask him proof (maybe he just played with the national team but never in a WC?) but I'm often suspicious when I hear that kind of story.

thanks...

Agreed - understandable and it happens across Canada, the USA....

However, I stand by my assessment on his coaching, regardless of his playing career achievements, - he connects with players</u>.

That's when I believe that player development occurs. Players learn at different rates and in different ways - so when a coach can connect with players, its a positive.

[squid2]

quote:Originally posted by jpg75

Hey Squid, nice post!

I pulled off the Child and Youth certifications on back to back weekends in February. I didn't bother with the Senior component only because it wasn't offered by the club. I have yet to coach 1 day in my life and i'm a 2 day course away from the Pre-B [:0]

No offense, but your situation speaks to the inadequcy of the program.

You've "advanced" from the entry level to the next level with no practical experience, no assessment, no guidance, nothing. You're ready for the next course, time and cheque in hand.

Now maybe you played rep as a kid, and senior competitive as an adult - who knows, if in a best case you might even be employed as a teacher, so perhaps you could be well suited to instruct and be

front line with younger players.

But what if you never played at any level, or always just for fun. And maybe as a player you were useless and hopeless. Worst case, you struggle connecting with the kids; do we want you working with

kids at any level without supervision and/or a mentor?

Is this how we should develop coaches?

[DoyleG]

quote:Originally posted by prizby

nazzer you have an interesting point, but I must point out while Japan's goals are really good, they are very achievable because one of the big factors is they will have cheaper travel costs, less distance to travel, no time zone change. Our country is to big to have its own national league (unless someone has deep pockets and is willing to carry the burden...which I would do if my name was Bill Gates or Warren Buffet)

I swear, some people are just weak if they complain about the travel costs.

[jpg75]

quote:Originally posted by squid2

No offense, but your situation speaks to the inadequcy of the program.

You've "advanced" from the entry level to the next level with no practical experience, no assessment, no guidance, nothing. You're ready for the next course, time and cheque in hand.

Now maybe you played rep as a kid, and senior competitive as an adult - who knows, if in a best case you might even be employed as a teacher, so perhaps you could be well suited to instruct and be

front line with younger players.

But what if you never played at any level, or always just for fun. And maybe as a player you were useless and hopeless. Worst case, you struggle connecting with the kids; do we want you working with

kids at any level without supervision and/or a mentor?

Is this how we should develop coaches?

None taken.

My experience is actually why i think the program needs revamping. I did play rep. as a kid and continued playing as an adult amateur, i'd like to think i know the game, but should i be allowed to get my CC Licence before even coaching 1 day? No test of any kind and i could be coaching rep. or even OYSL this season (doubtful, but it could happen).

Now play out the same scenario with a well intentioned parent who never played getting certified so he can coach his kids rep. team (again, not likely, but could be a small rural club that's desperate for coaches), and your boy or girl is going to have him as a coach. Scary.

[squid2]

quote:Originally posted by DoyleG

I swear, some people are just weak if they complain about the travel costs.

agreed

The CHL has a working model.

CHL = http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Canadian_Hockey_League

http://www.chl.ca/

Part of the CSA re-structures should include a modification of the CHL for a domestic national development league: football's cheaper than hockey so more communities could participate - co-mingle the 16-20 age group.... let the communities and entrepreneurs operate the league while the CSA sanctions it and identifies the essential requirements for participation: a stadium, grass fields, change rooms, media capable amenities, mens program, women's program, ballboys / ballgirls, etc. Slick it up, make it closer to a professional level.