Canada's national kit/crest

[earlimus]

I would like to open a discussion on the general opinion of the symbol of the Canadian Soccer Association here at Voyageurs.

Although I am new to this website and this forum, I am a fully fledged Canada supporter and I'm proud to find this site active and busy.

This thread is not to put down our current badge, only to express my opinion that we are in need of a new one.

I think that the current symbol is great, but as a symbol of CSA, not as our national crest for our jersey/kit. Looking up national football crests on wikipedia last week brought to my mind yet again the fact that our soccer jersey's are more often than not lacking in integrity and originality, something that could also be said of our national program in general. The CSA's Strategic Plan Summary was a big step forward for our national teams and Canadian soccer in general (and I was happy to read of Voyageurs insightful criticism of it). One thing it clearly outlines however is that whatever funding the CSA does receive, it will most certainly not be enough to make drastic changes to our infrastructure. It won't help bring soccer in Canada to the truly competitive level that it needs to be, and it certainly won't guarantee us a real shot at making the next World Cup. I therefore see a great chance to improve on some aspects of the game here that don't require large sums of money. Trivial though it may seem to some, our national kit is something that I believe could use a drastic revamping.

Think for a minute on some other comparable nations and what they have achieved in the past 15 years. Japan and Australia have both attempted to improve the infrastructure and quality of the game in their domestic leagues and national teams. They are in my opinion at a much higher level than we are here in Canada. Now, while we can't come close to matching the funding that both of those nations have provided their teams (particularly Japan), we can match them in other ways.

One such way is fan support. The strides forward we have made with our in-stadium support over the last two years is unprecedented here in Toronto where I am from. We owe much of this to the TFC and their (and to a small degree my) support and commitment. Attending the Canada vs. Jamaica WCQ match could not have been more different than the Canada vs. Chile U21WC one I saw the year before. The Canadian team had the stronger support, and there were even fans handing out flyers with songs on them to learn and sing. I believe that this is an enormous stride forward, and from what I've read and understood about our soccer history it indeed is. I hope and believe that this will continue, and continue across the country. We are a nation with strong ties to our founding nations and immigration counties, but there is no reason that our own national team should not be fully supported no matter who our opponents are, and I don't believe that from now on they will be.

What better reason then is there to rethink our national jersey??? It's crest is simple and lame. It may be suitable for the CSA's logo, but not for the shirt that our players wear with pride. Our colours (red and white) are the most popular and common for national teams throughout the world. Our kit should have an individual look and feel to it. When I see our new kits year after year I can only think of how far down the line we must be on Addidas design priority list. I think back to Austria and Switzerland (no offence intended whatsoever) and their national kits, and how plain and generic they look in comparison with the other nations of Europe in last summers Cup. Using the teams of Australia and Japan as examples, I see a strong contrast from countries where soccer is at a comparable infant state. When these nations are up against their opponents, there is no confusion as to who the other team is playing. The distinct look of Australia's particular yellow and green cannot be confused with that of say Jamaica's. Nor could Japan's kit be confused with the countless other blue kits out there. The kits themselves have an individual look to them. I realize that this may be due to funding and money spent, but how much really would it take for Addidas to conjure up something with a bit more imagination for ours? Both countries also have extremely well designed crests for their shirts that conjure up pride and passion. The distinct JFA crest is a great design. In 2003 Australia did away with their old logo for their modern crest, with a truly global modern look. It may not have the old world crest of arms appeal to it, but it does symbolize the country's love for the game. Ours in contrast is as simple as you could imagine; a simple maple leaf and a soccer ball, and this from a country that has the cultural influence from the better part of the globe.

This is not to say that I don't like the symbolism of our Maple Leaf, nor that I think we should adopt a crest similar to so many European nations. Most European nations however display great crests on their national shirts. Think of the tri-colours of Italy, the three lions of England, the national crest of Spain. Our National Crest (the one on our passports, not soccer related) for example is a great symbol, but portraying only the flags and symbols of England, France, Scotland, and Ireland is outdated. Our country in 2009 us made up of so much more, and our soccer should reflect this. Imagine a symbol of our country in its modern state, something that sums up the passion and love for the game that many here have.

This is something that we could change about our national teams that wouldn't cost millions of dollars, it could however change the way others (other nations or Canadians) look at our/their team.

[Daniel]

There was a "contest" in 2005 where the CSA said they'd get a new logo.

It went from this:

To this:

This after saying they'd get submissions from the public, etc. I know that Jarrek created a few logos and posted them here.

[Guest Ed]

The expression 'a sow's ear' comes to mind. Changing our kit will not change our fortunes or 'change the way other nations see our team'. Waste of effort there Sparky. Put the sweat into filling BMO with Cdn fans.

[Vic]

http://www.canadasoccer.com/eng/media/viewArtical.asp?Press_ID=2069

[Daniel]

Here's the timeline on the V's board:

March '05 announcement: http://www.canadian-soccer.com/forum/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=6229

September '05 what's going on: http://www.canadian-soccer.com/forum/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=7898

September '06 (!!!) here it is, by accident: http://www.canadian-soccer.com/forum/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=10414

[earlimus]

quote:Originally posted by Ed

The expression 'a sow's ear' comes to mind. Changing our kit will not change our fortunes or 'change the way other nations see our team'. Waste of effort there Sparky. Put the sweat into filling BMO with Cdn fans.

No it won't. I would be a step forward however.

As to the BMO, from what I saw at the Jamaica/Canada match we are making progress. Real progress. Gaining recognition from the rest of the world that this sport is taken seriously here would be another one.

Thanks for the links to those articles btw... Rather depressing seeing the "drastic" changes they made in 2005.

[earlimus]

quote:Originally posted by dsqpr

Yes, our badge is "simple", but I don't agree that it is "lame". Simple is often best. It incorporates the Maple Leaf, a key ingredient in my opinion, although I'm not overly enthusiastic about the ball. In short, I quite like the badge but I have a vague feeling that it could probably be improved a bit -- I just don't have any suggestions about how to do it!

Thanks to Daniel for this link:

http://www.canadian-soccer.com/forum/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=10414

So...

This badge is equally simple. It incorporates the Maple Leaf (a key ingredient in my mind as well). It has a little ball showing.

I think that it's infinitely better than the one we have now. It actually looks like a badge. It has a clearly defined boarder. It states the first year of the CSA. It shows our flag a bit in the middle. Could it be improved upon??? Sure! Does it make our current badge look like a cheap bumper sticker?? You bet!!!

btw... three cheers for our man David Edgar in Newcastle scoring today against Liverpool. And we all know a dive when we see it, don't we Mr. Ngog?

[Guest Jeffery S.]

If you don't hold onto a current design long enough, long enough so it gets totally outdated, you will never get to the point where it takes on a charming retro quality that all fans everywhere will love for its nostalgic value.

Look at a crest and think of your childhood, even if the crest is horrendously designed. Can't do that if they are constantly redoing the damn thing.

[Marc]

Exactly. Well said.

[earlimus]

Good point there, but I still disagree.

We´re not talking about a classic logo here. We’re talking about the bland crest and kit of a poorly supported (financially at least) national team, with a parent organization which from what I´ve seen and read here is completely ineffective at its job (case in point: Dale Mitchell). This organization held a contest 3 years ago to change the logo and all they could do after some great submissions was alter the font!!!!! Come on. Talk about wasting our money.

We ask our players to come home from all over the world to play for pride (as I´m sure their national team salaries are lacking to say the least) to a country where until most recently the visiting team gets more support in their own stadiums. Speaking of which, when the stadiums are even half filled with Canadian supporters, the pitch is without exception, the worst that I have ever seen in my life (ex. Montreal, Canada vs. Honduras 06/09/08).

Well, there’s not a lot we can do about most of these issues other than what is being done here at Voyageurs (which is amazing!!). What we can do, is raise hell about our lack of a quality kit from which our men in red can at least derive some pride. Here at Voyageurs, we can make an effort to see that done. This may be a small point on the list of things that we ask the CSA to improve upon, but I believe that it’s a vital one, and affordable.

If we can´t do this for the national team, who can????

[Cheeta]

Ah, the old kit re-design scheme to sell more shirts.

Personally, I want (say it with me everybody) a beaver</u> on the logo. If the French can have a <s>cock</s> rooster, we can have a beaver.

Nothing else. No football. No "CSA". No "Canada". Just a beaver.

How ugly would that be? So ugly it's cool.

Just my 2 cents for Voyageur fashion thread #291

[redhat]

The logo is fine, albeit not perfect.

The maple leaf is Canadian, just like NZ has its kiwi feather or the Aussies

have their kangaroo. The U.S.? Well they've tried, but they seem to change

and "over-commercialize" its stars and stripes. Or its screaming predatory scavenger,

the eagle.

Why does the design return to its mean? Well the current logo has its history.

It's the symbol we've had for the only time we've been to the World Cup. It's classic

and yet retro at the same time. Simple, understated, very Canadian.

A crest is very British. And a fighting, angry beaver clutching on to a soccer ball is

no French rooster. We don't have THEIR history, nor their soccer pedigree.

We don't need no beavers, cocks, crocks, ducks, stars, swishes, or stinkin' badgers.

Our challenge is our soccer program, not our logo.

[earlimus]

quote:Originally posted by Cheeta

Ah, the old kit re-design scheme to sell more shirts.

Personally, I want (say it with me everybody) a beaver</u> on the logo. If the French can have a <s>cock</s> rooster, we can have a beaver.

Nothing else. No football. No "CSA". No "Canada". Just a beaver.

How ugly would that be? So ugly it's cool.

Just my 2 cents for Voyageur fashion thread #291

Jajajaa. The beav would definitely be welcome somewhere on there as a symbol of the nation!! Lots of countries have their nation´s animals as part of their symbols. Don´t know about ONLY a beaver...

And this isn´t just about selling more shirts, although generating more cash for the financially starved national team would be good.

[Marc]

But lots of countries aren't Canada. Why do we always feel so inferior that we need to copy the good old boys in Europe? I mean, it's one thing to look there for inspiration, but as if applying the results of their history to our current institutions is going to make us more legit! Our logo is what it is because we as a country grew up from 1918-1970 (or something to that effect, for the current generations, I'm sure we'll continue to mature and morph in the future), not the 1870s. Our logo isn't going to be some historical European-style crest/animal/whatever because we, as a nation, didn't develop our modern collective identity until very recently (in historical terms.) Therefore it makes sense that symbols are all of the 'modern' variety (I use that term in its colloquial context, not academic context) - hence the simple, logo-istic maple leaf. So why be somethign we're not? Why fake it? Putting some animal because its historically important or old crest because that what the Euros do is poseurish, and smacks of insecurity. (Although I do like Cheeta's idea, froma style perspective. I'd buy that shirt.)

Plus, that CSA logo is very very close to being retro-cool very soon. It's one of the reasons the 1986 WC shirts look so damn awesome, and that you can't find one to save your life.

[Cheeta]

quote:Originally posted by dsqpr

While I like the idea of a beaver, it does have a significant practical drawback: I can only imagine the bawdy and humiliating terrace humour that would be visited upon a team of 11 "eager beavers"! [:I]

For some reason I fail to see that as a negative...

Wee Elf;

Is that a beaver on your hat?

Cheeta;

Yes, dear. It is.

Wee Elf;

Hmph. Well since that's all you got inside your head it may as well be all you've got on it.

Cheeta;

Did you just say "head"?

[earlimus]

Right...

I suppose I'll accept defeat on this then. I still say that our kit has absolutely no identity other than being red and having the generic adidas stripes, and that our logo is plain and amateurish looking, despite being retro.

On that note, I just finished looking at www.canadasoccer.com and www.adidas.com and neither one had our national jerseys for sale. Well... the Canadian site had a white away shirt from I believe the under-21 tourney with the awful diagonal collar. Nothing for our current jersey.

I suppose I'll just buy my spanish brother in-law a Raptor's jersey. Or a Canada t-shirt with a beaver on it.

[matthew]

I've said it before and I'll say it again - the logo is one of the only things we've ever gotten right. Canada soccer. Half maple leaf, half soccer ball with Canada written in the middle. Simple, clear, clean. It's so good Basketball Canada ripped it off (more or less anyway).

It has history and the more you leave in unchanged the more entrenched it will become in the public consciousness. That's not a good enough reason to not change it on its own, but since I do think it's a solid design its history shouldn't be discounted.

When you think about the historic and iconic logos in North American sport almost none of them are more complicated than the CSA logo and I would say most aren't actually a better design than the CSA logo.

cheers,

matthew

[Guest Jeffery S.]

quote:Originally posted by earlimus

Right...

I suppose I'll accept defeat on this then. I still say that our kit has absolutely no identity other than being red and having the generic adidas stripes, and that our logo is plain and amateurish looking, despite being retro.

On that note, I just finished looking at www.canadasoccer.com and www.adidas.com and neither one had our national jerseys for sale. Well... the Canadian site had a white away shirt from I believe the under-21 tourney with the awful diagonal collar. Nothing for our current jersey.

I suppose I'll just buy my spanish brother in-law a Raptor's jersey. Or a Canada t-shirt with a beaver on it.

You are of course right it is a poor design. And lacking symbolism. But look at most club crests and national ones too, most are simply terrible. Most, when they try to express something or be meaningfully symbolic, come out totally kitsch. A huge percentage are just sickening. But is soccer, I mean, I get my aesthetic thrills elsewhere mostly, and every so often with what I see on the pitch.

[ag futbol]

quote:Originally posted by Jeffrey S.

You are of course right it is a poor design. And lacking symbolism. But look at most club crests and national ones too, most are simply terrible. Most, when they try to express something or be meaningfully symbolic, come out totally kitsch. A huge percentage are just sickening. But is soccer, I mean, I get my aesthetic thrills elsewhere mostly, and every so often with what I see on the pitch.

I'd have to throw my vote in this direction as well.

Earlimus is right that unfortunately the stigma we'll be attaching to his logo will be one of CSA failure.

The actual disign itself is nothing to write home about. Simplicity is fine, doing your own thing is fine, but this is just a rabid piece of crap.

I'd say if we took the words "Canada" off that logo and randomly placed that symbol next to ten amateur club crests, I would bet money it wouldn't be popular enough to make the top half.

Keep in mind these organizations pay zero money to have their symbols drawn up and were comparing it to the CSA which should have some (even if limited) resources to spend. I know for a fact you can get very reputable Marketing design firms to come up with logos for business for less than a few thousand dollars. Adidas might be willing to give the CSA some suggestions as well.

[smiddy]

I say we go with beaver jerseys. Simple. Classy. Elegant. Just a thought.

[Tuscan]

Simple solution:

We adopt the Vancouver Canucks's home and away jerseys from the 70s and blind our opponents, unleashing the onslaught we've all wanted to see.

[Grizzly]

We seem to have a thread or two every year on this topic but count me as one of the guys who likes our current crest. The only change I think that needs to be made is to get rid of those gay polka dots on the current jerseys.

[earlimus]

quote:Originally posted by ag futbol

I'd have to throw my vote in this direction as well.

Earlimus is right that unfortunately the stigma we'll be attaching to his logo will be one of CSA failure.

The actual disign itself is nothing to write home about. Simplicity is fine, doing your own thing is fine, but this is just a rabid piece of crap.

I'd say if we took the words "Canada" off that logo and randomly placed that symbol next to ten amateur club crests, I would bet money it wouldn't be popular enough to make the top half.

Keep in mind these organizations pay zero money to have their symbols drawn up and were comparing it to the CSA which should have some (even if limited) resources to spend. I know for a fact you can get very reputable Marketing design firms to come up with logos for business for less than a few thousand dollars. Adidas might be willing to give the CSA some suggestions as well.

My thoughts exaxctly. I´d be less than happy if the clubs that I´VE played on came up with a logo this lame!!! I honestly can´t see how changing it to something more representitive of Soccer in Canada wouldn´t be beneficial. What are other nations supposed to think of when they see this??? It looks pure half-ass photoshop to me, and we already have a international reputation of not really caring about the sport and our team. Simplicity can be direct and effective but that doesn´t justify this to me. From a nation as multicultural and artistic as Canada was have to be able to come up with something better!!

And our kits?? Is anyone really satisfied with our bland adidas kits? I agree with having adidas as our sponsor (boring but it is the largest soccer company in the world, and distribution goes a long way), but it seems as though they don´t even take us seriously. How can the CSA justify not even having our current outfit for sale on it´s ADIDAS SALES WEBPAGE?????? Even if we wanted the boring thing we can´t buy it!!!

[Trident]

I don't think it's "retro cool", it just seems like a very outdated logo. Some cars age and have a classic look, some age and look awkward still to this day. Old does not make it classic.

It's a failure of a logo, attached to national failure at a sport.

When Australia got cleaned up, they changed their logo, didn't they? They left behind a symbol of terrible play.

[Daniel]

quote:Originally posted by Trident

When Australia got cleaned up, they changed their logo, didn't they? They left behind a symbol of terrible play.

The new Australian logo ain't all that - they use a crest on their jerseys. The old Soccer Australia logo was pretty ugly, though.

NEW

OLD

CREST

I DO think that it could be revitalized a bit, but the elements (ball, leaf, Canada) are pretty good.