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MYSTERY SOLVED re: Impact MLS bid!


Johnnie Monster

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quote:Originally posted by Johnnie Monster

Puerto Rico was in the driver seat to host the USL championship final, but for some reason the league rejected their bid on the grounds that it didn't satisfy their requirements.

Montreal was in the driver seat to enter MLS, but for some reason... see where I'm going with this?

Wow....Pretty funny comparison

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quote:Originally posted by Johnnie Monster

Puerto Rico was in the driver seat to host the USL championship final, but for some reason the league rejected their bid on the grounds that it didn't satisfy their requirements.

Montreal was in the driver seat to enter MLS, but for some reason... see where I'm going with this?

The big difference being that the Puerto Rico bid seemed to satisfy all the requirements of the league except that the league unfairly changed them when they realized that it would cost more to televise the game from Puerto Rico thus unethically influencing the outcome of the match. Our MLS bid in contrast fell far short of league requirements in several areas and was hardly even a serious bid so the league was absolutely justified in rejecting it.

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As stated previously, enjoy watching our boys on national tv come winter...

this thread has no point and is a pure bash on Saputo and the Impact. Saputo might not be perfect(far from, lets not enter the poor marketing debate), many will agree, but the man has rejuvinated soccer in Quebec and assembled a squad that is in the top 8 in CONCACAF.

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quote:Originally posted by Bill Ault

^ there is not other than - that was sufficient (or not as it turned out).

Grizzly has a problem with the stadium.

I like it, just because I remember the days of the CCR. Those who weren't around during those days seem to be the majority of the people disappointed in SS.

A good argument against those people now is:

Aren't you glad we didnt build a multimillion dollar superstadium with capacity above 20k? It would have been a waste in the USL.

:)

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quote:Originally posted by Trident

Grizzly has a problem with the stadium.

I like it, just because I remember the days of the CCR. Those who weren't around during those days seem to be the majority of the people disappointed in SS.

A good argument against those people now is:

Aren't you glad we didnt build a multimillion dollar superstadium with capacity above 20k? It would have been a waste in the USL.

:)

Yes the stadium is a big problem, something which I have said right from the beginning and it also proved to be a problem in the end. Let's not forget that Garber was not impressed with the stadium when he came to Montreal calling it a "high school stadium" and apparently in private had many other negative comments about it. My opinion about it has nothing to do with me not knowing CCR, I have been attending Impact games since I moved to Montreal more than 4 years ago and am well aware of CCR's failings. The question is did we want to build a stadium that was better than CCR or did we want to build a stadium that would get us into MLS. We did the former but did not even come close to the latter. Even the expanded Saputo Stadium would have been well below MLS standards.

I don't hate Saputo Stadium, it is a good venue for USL games but I would have rather played a few more years at CCR as crappy as it was if the result was that a much better stadium was built for us later possibly with government funding like BMO. As I have said all along, it doesn't make any sense to me to build a USL level stadium when your plan is to join MLS. We had an inadequate stadium and only wanted to pay half of the asked for expansion fee. Not only were we rejected it was not even a serious bid. When we are being cheap and cutting corners at every level, why would the MLS believe we would not do so in the future in such areas as player salaries?

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quote:Originally posted by Trident

Grizzly has a problem with the stadium.

I like it, just because I remember the days of the CCR. Those who weren't around during those days seem to be the majority of the people disappointed in SS.

Nope, I was around at the time of CCR and have been to see games there on many occasions. In fact, for all we know, I may have been or see CCR more often than you have. Yet, I was disappointed in SS. the big improvement of SS over CCR is that CCR had a Track and SS doesn't.

As for the rest, the improvements are at best marginal, If at all. Take the main stands at CCR for example. You could make a good case that there was certainly much more of a professional feel to them than at SS . They were partially coverred, elevated with a steep incline, had multiple access including from inside the complex and they were build on a solid concrete foundation. That gave the CCR more of a stadium feel to it.

If you could take CCR and:

1)Remove the track & moved the pitch sidelines closer to to stands.

2) build identical stands and complex (to the mainstand) at the opposite side of the pitch

3)Put in some temporary bleachers behind the nets

4) Use the indoor part of the complex for concessions, souvenirs and amenities

With all that, you would have a hell of a facility. Far better that SS and I'm sure that it would have been more than enough for Garber.

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quote:Originally posted by Grizzly

which got me thinking, wouldn't he have been better off if he would have took the money he spent on SS, and put it towards improving CCR. Maybe the city would have gave him some good incentives and perks. Maybe the money could have been spent on removing the track and building a main stand ( similar to the one at SS along with the offices) at the opposite side of CCR. The value of an extra dollar spent on improving CCR would have been greater than the value of an extra dollar spent on building something from scratch when you only have 15 Mill to play with.

You might even make good case for using Molson stadium for MLS. Of course now you run into the problem of gridlines and field lenght. But again, Molson stadium is more of an actual stadium. But if the stories are true that 40-50 Mill in upgrades were required for SS, then why wouldn't Molson stadium ( for all its faults) have been considered.

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quote:Originally posted by Free kick

Nope, I was around at the time of CCR and have been to see games there on many occasions. In fact, for all we know, I may have been or see CCR more often than you have.

I suspect both of us have attended more games at CCR than Trident has. In fact, we have also both probably seen more games at Stade Saputo than him as well. I certainly have and even you coming for the TFC game and the Canada matches have probably been there more times than he has this year.

quote:As for the rest, the improvements are at best marginal, If at all. Take the main stands at CCR for example. You could make a good case that there was certainly much more of a professional feel to them than at SS . They were partially coverred, elevated with a steep incline, had multiple access including from inside the complex and they were build on a solid concrete foundation. That gave the CCR more of a stadium feel to it.

If you could take CCR and:

1)Remove the track & moved the pitch sidelines closer to to stands.

2) build identical stands and complex (to the mainstand) at the opposite side of the pitch

3)Put in some temporary bleachers behind the nets

4) Use the indoor part of the complex for concessions, souvenirs and amenities

With all that, you would have a hell of a facility. Far better that SS and I'm sure that it would have been more than enough for Garber.

This is my feeling as well. SS is really CCR2, a similar type stadium with the track removed and stands closer to the field. I also agree that the main stand at CCR is much better than any of the stands at SS. Most of the drawbacks at CCR are similar to those at SS, inadequate washroom and concesssion facilities, and could be fixed releatively easily. The pitch at CCR would need to be redone but the pitch at SS has been far from stellar this year and also needs major work for next year. As you said if they weren't willing to spend much money, renovating CCR might have been a very good option for getting a MLS level stadium on the cheap.

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quote:Originally posted by Grizzly

I suspect both of us have attended more games at CCR than Trident has. In fact, we have also both probably seen more games at Stade Saputo than him as well. I certainly have and even you coming for the TFC game and the Canada matches have probably been there more times than he has this year.

This is my feeling as well. SS is really CCR2, a similar type stadium with the track removed and stands closer to the field. I also agree that the main stand at CCR is much better than any of the stands at SS. Most of the drawbacks at CCR are similar to those at SS, inadequate washroom and concesssion facilities, and could be fixed releatively easily. The pitch at CCR would need to be redone but the pitch at SS has been far from stellar this year and also needs major work for next year. As you said if they weren't willing to spend much money, renovating CCR might have been a very good option for getting a MLS level stadium on the cheap.

Hey grizz, I feel honoured being mentioned in, and replying to, a palindromic post. I never said I saw more games than you.

I said: You have a problem with the stadium

and

The majority of people who do have big critiques of SS weren't around in the day.

I never meant you, so it's real nice of you to brink up the fact you guys have seen more games at SS than me, classy leadership. You know I've only been there twice, but your little mention of me was a dig, it didnt serve a purpose.

:)

My other point about not building a superstadium right off the bat seems pretty valid, considering we wont be in the MLS so there's no need of it.

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quote:Originally posted by TridentHey grizz, I feel honoured being mentioned in, and replying to, a palindromic post. I never said I saw more games than you.

I said: You have a problem with the stadium

and

The majority of people who do have big critiques of SS weren't around in the day.

I never meant you, so it's real nice of you to brink up the fact you guys have seen more games at SS than me, classy leadership. You know I've only been there twice, but your little mention of me was a dig, it didnt serve a purpose.

:)

My other point about not building a superstadium right off the bat seems pretty valid, considering we wont be in the MLS so there's no need of it.

The comment was obviously targeted at me and now that you find out that I have been around a lot longer than you suspected you are changing your tune. I personally don't care how much someone has been to either stadium but if you are going to try to discredit critics of the stadium whether myself or others then the number of times you have been to the stadiums comes into play as well. It is you who have brought this criteria into the debate. A renovated CCR with the same budget would have been much nicer than SS though that is assuming they could have worked out a deal with the City of Montreal. I do prefer the location of SS though.

The argument that the superstadium was unneccessary without MLS is a self-defeating argument. Yes if we had no intention or very low chances of getting into MLS it made no sense to build an MLS quality stadium. If we were serious about getting into MLS as Saputo indicated we should have built something of much higher quality. Again the problem is not the size of SS but the poor quality. I have never said he should have built a 20 000 seat stadium right off the bat. He should have build a stadium the size of the current one but of much higher quality so instead of a rebuilding of the stadium what would be needed is simply to add stands of a similar quality. The current plan was to add stands and facilities of a similar poor quality to what exists now ignoring the other problems with the stadium. You build it once the right way instead of building on sand foundations.

As far as your comment about class I think you are the last person who should be lecturing anyone about class. Your modus operandi is to post sarcastic comments with little purpose other than pissing people off regardless of whether it is here, the UM site or impactsoccer.com. It is pretty typical of you that here you are saying Joey's stadium strategy made sense while on impactsoccer.com you are saying he should suck dick and that he is a cheapskate.

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No Grizz, this wasn't targeted at you. That was "targeted" at the weirdos who don't register on IS and leave stupid comments. I didn't try to "discredit" them, I was pointing out that some of them weren't there during the different times, if you see that as "discrediting" them, sorry, I don't. I don't think renovating CCR was a possibility, and that's good because I like that we have our own facility, in a location I prefer.

And I think that he didnt try very hard for an MLS franchise, or else we would have gotten one much earlier.

I never said *you* said we should have built a 20,000seater. But many *people* have, I aim that at them. There are many posts online about people wondering why it wasn't a 20k stadium from the outset. Now it seems it was a good move that it wasn't.

I never said Joey's strategy made sense. It just happened that the cookie crumbled, he fell ass backwards into a "good" move.

It's good that we weren't left with another white elephant in a down neighbourhood.

The last thing Hochelaga needs is another empty stadium.

I didn't aim anything at you Grizz, I quoted your posts, said you have problems with it, which you do.

I then said in another different point, there are people who dislike SS, but never experienced the harsh views and atmosphere of CCR.

I don't know why you think I do this but I do not set out in posts thinking, "How can I make a dig at Grizzly?". Why would I do that, we are all UM02, and I think we should all stand together united, that's why it's one of our sayings. I will always stay loyal to the group and it's members, I would not take shots at them in public, it serves no purpose, after all, I don't go to games so what would I have to gain? Lay off grizz, you read too much into things, it's not the first time you did this.

And Yeah I did tell Joey to eat a dick and I called him a cheapskate. If in 5-10 years, the USL is still alive and we make a move to the MLS for less, I'll admit it was a good move if his original plan was to wait for the fee to drop. Until then, I have my right to state my opinion, which is that I think it was a shitty way to be denied a franchise; a billionaire that didn't want to drop an extra couple of million.

:)

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