Luis_Rancagua Posted July 13, 2008 Share Posted July 13, 2008 Guys, after watching a pretty decent USL game between Seattle and Rochester on Fox Television, I thought just hit me. What are the chances that TFC establishes a USL Division-1 club in Hamilton. Would this be a good idea??? Yes or No... I will love to see TFC, and even Montreal and Vancouver (in conditions that they join MLS), continue their ties with the USL for player development. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blue and White Army Posted July 13, 2008 Share Posted July 13, 2008 http://bp3.blogger.com/_APkNiTdkOp4/RuvG7nUAUgI/AAAAAAAAACs/uc3lUmWas9A/s1600-h/beatdeadhorse.gif Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Richard Posted July 13, 2008 Share Posted July 13, 2008 The Whitecaps have already stated publicly that if/when they do enter MLS they will most definitely continue with a USL-1 team as part of their development program. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blue and White Army Posted July 13, 2008 Share Posted July 13, 2008 I'm not sure if the USL would want a reserve team to play in their highest division... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tmcmurph Posted July 13, 2008 Share Posted July 13, 2008 quote:Originally posted by Blue and White Army I'm not sure if the USL would want a reserve team to play in their highest league... It's not like they have much choice. Vancouver, Montreal, Portland, Miami, Atlanta looking to get MLS franchises that would leave them kind of short in the first division. I know Austin and Tampa are coming back but I don't see the USL saying no to anyone with 300k and a million a year to lose. The idea is actually very interesting. If the Caps keep the USL-1 going in Victoria or elsewhere in BC then Hamilton would make sense for TFC and Quebec city for Montreal. It would make the MLS squads take the Voyageurs Cup more seriously. Can you imagine LOSING to your farm team? Ouch. You would NEVER live that one down. Long after you retire people would still say "were you on that team that LOST to its farm team?" [}] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blue and White Army Posted July 13, 2008 Share Posted July 13, 2008 The USL currently markets itself as a competitor to MLS, and not as a lesser league. And with results in the US Open Cup and Nutrlilite Canadian Championship, why shouldn't it? Allowing an MLS reserve side into USL-1 would be a de facto admission that USL is well and truly a minor league, which I doubt the USL brass are keen to do. They'll take MLS academy sides in PDL, but expect fireworks re: MLS reserve sides in USL-1. The USL is currently very, very busy pro-actively approaching various markets to enter into USL-1. This league has survived and evolved through various comings and goings over the years, and I doubt this will change anytime soon. Let me ask you this - would you want to see EPL reserve sides in the English Championship? It happens in Germany, I suppose, but perhaps that's more of an aberration. One thing I like about soccer (in most of the world) is that clubs are independent from one another, throughout the divisions. Perhaps Victoria or Kelowna or wherever would be better off hosting an de jure MLS reserve team, rather than a USL-1 "farm team". Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VPjr Posted July 14, 2008 Share Posted July 14, 2008 quote:Originally posted by Blue and White Army I'm not sure if the USL would want a reserve team to play in their highest division... The better question is whether the MLS would allow a reserve team to play in the USL. The MLS has its own reserve league, with games scheduled the day following senior team matches usually. If the Whitecaps placed a team in USL, I'd be curious what kind of team it would be. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KAS Posted July 14, 2008 Share Posted July 14, 2008 Should TFC get a USL1 club and would Hamilton be a good spot for a USL1 club are two different questions. TFC should not get a USL1 club. It is not necessary and would only be a distraction. Hamiltonians are not going to support a club that is owned by a larger Toronto-based club. As for Hamilton getting a USL1 club on its' own as an independent operation, I think it is possible. It is a smaller city than Toronto, Montreal and Vancouver, but its' catchement area is quite large and full of soccer players. What makes this an interesting idea is that there is now a new stadium in Hamilton. Previously, you had either Ivor Wynne (WAY TOO BIG and run down), or Brian Timmis (at 4K, slightly bigger than Lynx's Centenial, but still somewhat small - the W-League team plays there and previous clubs tried there). Now there is MacMaster's brand-new Ronald v Joyce stadium. Wikipedia puts capacity at 6K with the option of another 6k temporary stand on the other side for special occassions to make it 12K. More reliable sources put capacity at 5400 seats, which is divided between club/VIP seats in the middle, regular seats next to that and benches at the ends. The locker rooms and media facilities are very good and it even has an injury clinic. They built a 330 space parking garage right underneath it. A brand new stadium with great facilities and 5400 capacity (perhaps up to 6000 if you let supporters groups stand behind the nets) would be perfect for USL1. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Johnnie Monster Posted July 14, 2008 Share Posted July 14, 2008 Worth noting the Caps are playing a friendly in Prince George this year, and also played a friendly in Kelowna a few years back. Testing markets for USL-1 relocation, maybe? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Richard Posted July 14, 2008 Share Posted July 14, 2008 I was quoting the president of the Whitecaps with my post about MLS Whitecaps continuing with a team in USL-1. I know that USL likes to portray themselves as a competitor to MLS but in reality they are second division, why else would so many USL-1 organisations including our own two, be looking to make the jump? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jason Posted July 15, 2008 Share Posted July 15, 2008 What I would like to see is a USL-2 club in the new McMaster stadium. Ideally, it would be run and majority owned by the Tiger-Cats' owner, with TFC being a minority owner. HFC or the Steelers or whatever would not be a reserve side, but would have a standing agreement that TFC would loan 2-4 players to Hamilton and promise to play at least one friendly a year in the Steel City. The majority of HFC's players would be from Ontario, kind of a CSL all star club. I'm convinced that in the player development structure there is a gap in Ontario between TFC and either the CSL or PDL. Surely there are talented players that fall in that niche and want to keep the dream alive. I can imagine a roster much similar to the USL-1 Lynx, but in USL-2 they'd be really competitive. And the costs would be less. If revenues warranted, more money could be spent on players. And wouldn't it be cool to have Hamilton, Ontario play Hamilton, Bermuda? Jason Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
coppercanuck Posted July 15, 2008 Share Posted July 15, 2008 Winnipeg attempted to get a PDL team ... the USL said no, the market needs a USL-1 <what?> Hamilton in USL-1 might do better than the Lynx ... maybe not. Calgary and Edmonton were in the USL-1 and probably still should be. There are so many possibilities all linked to a weak structure in the USL. I hate to bring up the pro/rel issue. <I'll try not to> The advantage for owners is to go PDL ... minimum travel, player costs and maximum return. Is the NCAA that worthy of protecting? I'm sure that 16 year old TFC kid is thinking "DAMN, there goes my division 3 NCAA shot!" Serious question, CSL vs. USL-2? Would the CSL take over if they all joined the USL-2? Would that put the leagues clubs in a higher standing? Easier for some to make the jump to USL-1 and then guaranteed spots in the Canadian Championship. It would be really interesting is some of these leagues could get over the egos and get organized. Quit asking for franchise fees and ask for memberships. I understand leagues trying to build brands and expand into new markets but is it working? I say no. The CSL can't draw in the top Ontario clubs like Ottawa St. Anthony into their fold, what makes them think 2 teams in each of AB, SK and MB will join? I've always wished someone at the CSA would wake up and just put some structure to the CSL, NSSL, AMSL, PCSL, PDL, LSEQ, Hyundai Cup. Is it any wonder the general public is confused? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KAS Posted July 15, 2008 Share Posted July 15, 2008 quote:Originally posted by Jason What I would like to see is a USL-2 club in the new McMaster stadium. Ideally, it would be run and majority owned by the Tiger-Cats' owner, with TFC being a minority owner. HFC or the Steelers or whatever would not be a reserve side, but would have a standing agreement that TFC would loan 2-4 players to Hamilton and promise to play at least one friendly a year in the Steel City. The majority of HFC's players would be from Ontario, kind of a CSL all star club. I'm convinced that in the player development structure there is a gap in Ontario between TFC and either the CSL or PDL. Surely there are talented players that fall in that niche and want to keep the dream alive. I can imagine a roster much similar to the USL-1 Lynx, but in USL-2 they'd be really competitive. And the costs would be less. If revenues warranted, more money could be spent on players. And wouldn't it be cool to have Hamilton, Ontario play Hamilton, Bermuda? Jason MLS doesn't seem to like loaning out players. That is why Guys like Lombardo and Hemming weren't loaned out even though it might have helped. They like their Developmental Roster and reserve games. TFC can't make any deals anyways because the league owns the players (and 51% of TFC). USL2 does not make any sense. It is not much cheaper than USL1, but is not as good or well regarded. The franchise fee is greater than that of the CSL for what is likely a similar level of play - and the travel costs are obviously much higher. USL1 would be the way to go. You would still have Montreal for awhile, and the rivalry with Rochester would be really good. The new stadium is the perfect size for it, and USL1 level would convince the CSA to let you into the Voyageurs Cup as the fourth team. Cup games against the Impact would be a sure sellout and against TFC your adding the 6K temporary bleachers to the other side for 12K. You would make as much in that one game as you would 3-4 regular season games and there would likely be an annual springtime friendly against TFC as well. If you can't afford USL1, then CSL would be the best option and I am sure someone will try that again soon at the new stadium if USL1 doesn't arrive first. Since the Lynx colours is Black/Gold, they should have just moved to Hamilton instead of dropping to PDL. I guess they really wanted to stay in Toronto and the existence of the W-League's Avalanche in Hamilton would have meant keeping the Lady Lynx in Toronto and thus having a two city operation. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Richard Posted July 15, 2008 Share Posted July 15, 2008 quote:Originally posted by Johnnie Monster Worth noting the Caps are playing a friendly in Prince George this year, and also played a friendly in Kelowna a few years back. Testing markets for USL-1 relocation, maybe? The Prince George game plus the earlier LA Galaxy game in Edmonton is all part of a strategy to establish the Whitecaps as THE professional soccer brand in western Canada. This is not inside information, public statements have been made to this effect by the club. Wouldn't surprise me if a similar business view is what is behind the Montreal Impact's reaction to another USL presence in Quebec, albeit PDL. The Impact are probably looking to establish themselves as THE soccer brand for the province of Quebec. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hamiltonfan Posted July 15, 2008 Share Posted July 15, 2008 Here’s my take on the Hamilton situation. USL-I or CSL is the only way to go. Why would owner bother with USL-II, as it is not a better product than the CSL and travel cost would blow the budget. I would love to see a team in USL-I. The new McMaster stadium is great for American football, I workout there everyday, not as much for soccer. It is possible a team could play on it however; there are permit football lines as well as the same field turf that is at Ivor Wynne, not FIFA approved but the closest thing to it. The stadium itself is amazing. Nice row of press boxes, middle section has individual seats well on the two wings there’s benches. Parking wouldn’t be bad and its also in a nice area of town..Ivor Wynne and the Timms are in run down areas with horrible parking. I could only imagine how big the game would be here in Hamilton if the mighty TFC came in. We should start by getting Bob Young (billion ticat owner) involved…anyone up for writing a letter to be mailed to him?? Maybe even thw owner of the BC Lions..I no he’s from the Hammer. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
themodelcitizen Posted July 16, 2008 Share Posted July 16, 2008 quote:Originally posted by Blue and White Army Let me ask you this - would you want to see EPL reserve sides in the English Championship? It happens in Germany, I suppose, but perhaps that's more of an aberration. In Spain as well, although I don't think they can get promoted. Rafa Benitez cut his managerial teeth getting Real Madrid Castilla to the top of the Segunda division. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
piltdownman Posted July 16, 2008 Share Posted July 16, 2008 Yes there are rules about promotion. I think some of the big clubs in the EPL were pushing to have their reserve side in the league System. I for one think its a good idea. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hamiltonfan Posted July 16, 2008 Share Posted July 16, 2008 no way anyone in hamilton would want the team to be a TFC farmteam. If palyers move up from HAmilton USL to TFC that great...but not a true reserve system Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KAS Posted July 17, 2008 Share Posted July 17, 2008 quote:Originally posted by hamiltonfan no way anyone in hamilton would want the team to be a TFC farmteam. If palyers move up from HAmilton USL to TFC that great...but not a true reserve system That is how I feel. The Argos and Ti-Cats have kept themselves alive over the years by using a fierce rivalry to increase attendence. An independent USL1 club probably wouldn't win too many games against TFC, but a couple of games in Hamilton per year (one pre-season friendly and one V-Cup) would provide enough extra revenue to ensure the club is a success. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Calgary Boomer Posted July 17, 2008 Share Posted July 17, 2008 There was serious interest as early as last year about a team at McMaster...a USL 1 team. With Hamilton's hatred of Toronto and vice-versa, there would be no affliation between the two. From a geographical standpoint, it makes perfect sense. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hamiltonfan Posted July 17, 2008 Share Posted July 17, 2008 bob young??? where are you Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hamiltonfan Posted July 17, 2008 Share Posted July 17, 2008 bob young??? where are you Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rick titus Posted July 19, 2008 Share Posted July 19, 2008 BTW fellas, USL division 2 is pretty much USL 1 with operating with less money. Most of the teams in division 2 are div 1 quality, but the choose to operate in the div2 due to the financial constraints. Richmond is a perfect example, they can beat any of the top div 1 teams, but their owner wanted to spend less money. It is a very good level, and its a notch better than the CSL. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CanadaTFC Posted July 19, 2008 Share Posted July 19, 2008 start our own damn league already. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
brettinhalifax Posted July 19, 2008 Share Posted July 19, 2008 quote:Originally posted by hamiltonfan bob young??? where are you Leave the poor guy alone! He's losing enough money on the Ti-Cats. If he is a billionaire, he's well on his way to becoming a millionaire! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Archived
This topic is now archived and is closed to further replies.