CG Posted June 28, 2007 Share Posted June 28, 2007 "As the Father of a young girl with a lifetime of WNT in front of her, we both know very well you can't speak openly about the program. Because if you had something negative to say, you couldn't say it here, because we both know what it would mean to her chances. That does it. What a weiner you are. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Richard Posted June 28, 2007 Author Share Posted June 28, 2007 You're right CG, for the impassioned WNT evangelists nothing will ever be good enough. I don't think the WNT program has ever been in as good shape as it is during the run up to the upcoming WC in China. Certainly the players have never been as well off materially - part of the reason Hooper et al were so upset at being cut I'll wager. And I don't differentiate between Sport Canada money, CSA money and Greg Kerfoot money, I don't think the WNT program has ever had such a generous private sector sponsor as Mr. Kerfoot and if posters here are anything to go by it's commercial sponsors the national teams programs need most. I am a fervent supporter of women's soccer and I don't mean to suggest that more should not be done for our WNT program, we can always use more, but I do not think that the situation merits quite the fuss that some are making. Bringing subjective human rights and gender equity arguments into the mix is inflammatory and not helpful. Whipping up parents of recreational female youth players with emotions and few facts is not doing the program or soccer any good either. Get the facts straight first then zero in on any real problem areas not vice versa. To that end we need to lean on the CSA to be more transparent with its budgets and financial reports first and in the meanwhile provide moral support and encouragement for the WNT program, coach and players, every bit of the way. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Richard Posted June 28, 2007 Author Share Posted June 28, 2007 CoachRich thanks for your kind words. I would gladly write something about the WNT program addressing your concerns but it would need to be based on facts, not opinions and emotions and it is precisely the facts that we don't have. All the claims and complaints that have been expressed publicly are emotional outburts based on surmise and guesswork and very little fact. I don't find that has much real value at all, indeed rather the reverse. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
to_soccer Posted June 28, 2007 Share Posted June 28, 2007 The idea that the Womens team is under funded is an interesting debate. There is certainly an argument that the team and players have never been supported with more resources than they are at this stage of the women's game. There is also an argument that the CSA is not responsible for much of the support- that the support the program receives is coming from Sport Canada and the corporate world. It is clear that the financials are needed to actually say what kind of support the men's program has received from the CSA and fom corporate Canada, if anybody wants to compare it to the women's support. The marketing group for the CSA can also certainly be questioned for their handling of all national teams, and it has been suggested that Mr. Lindford's one sided remarks have been an attitude shared by this marketing group, stopping many relationships brought in by the women's program from becoming a reality. CG and Others: There is no doubt that an attitude and "feelings" are holding back support for the women's game and that this attitude has recently shifted away from support for women's soccer within the CSA. However, I think the clear equity issue is not with the Women's team, but in the youth team bugets and the number of full time staff and programming for boys vs girls National Team programs. The Women's U20 team has NO budget, while the men have a million dollar plus budget. The U17 Women have 2 events, while it has been said the U17 men have 4 times the budget. Steven Hart and Dale Mitchell are all full time with the Male youth team programs. Ray Clarke, Sean Flemming, and David Benning all receive full time salaries from the CSA and are at least partially funded within the MALE Youth NT program. There are NO full time female staff for the women's youth programming. Ian Bridge is the only full time staff member with the CSA who has been partially asigned to the Women's Youth team programs. And he is apparently no longer assigned to that position, where none exists anyways. That is Inequality, Inequity, or anything else you want to call it. This is the real gender issue. And frankly, there is no argument that suggests that youth programs for the men will generate more sponsorship or other revenue- making those programs a more important priority. It would be very interesting to see what Youth NT developmental team budgets have been in place for this year. And there is no doubt in my mind that this is where the biggest inequity will be found. It is not acceptable for there not to be at Least 43% of CSA funds spent on NT programs directed to Youth Women's National team programs. Finally, it is clear that Mr Linfords comments are absolutely unacceptable. Men's World Cup- The only program? Prioritizing programs? This is all about not providing support for the women's programs across the board and a disrespecting attitude for women's soccer. It has been well argued here that this is not the right of the CSA to decide. As a publicly funded organisation, they have a responsibility to all members to provide appropriate programming to both genders - no matter how badly we all want the men to do well. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Ref Posted June 28, 2007 Share Posted June 28, 2007 Isn't there a women U20 World Championship in Chile coming up in 2008? For the CSA to shut down the U20 program seems they are thinking with their behinds. This guy Linford together with his Board are a piece of work. I wonder how the new guy Nykamp (sic) will feel about running an organization that does not have financial record keeping, is staffed by questionable characters and whose President is openly sexist. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Richard Posted June 28, 2007 Author Share Posted June 28, 2007 You know, to say that no matter what amount of money the CSA has, it should be spent strictly in proportion to the ratio of the various registered player categories no matter what is fallacious. For reasons which are a quite separate issue, the CSA has limited resources available and common sense would dictate that in order to achieve the best return on investment for these limited resources, some prioritisation is essential and according to Linford and Montagliani, that's precisely what they have done. This means some years certain segments will get less money spent on them than some people may think they should. I imagine that the prioritisation decisions at the CSA board level were not easy and probably involved considerable acrimony at times as pet programs were vigorously defended and promoted in turn. It is impossible to satisfy all the people all the time, the real world is all about compromise. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vic Posted June 28, 2007 Share Posted June 28, 2007 quote: "As the Father of a young girl with a lifetime of WNT in front of her, we both know very well you can't speak openly about the program. Because if you had something negative to say, you couldn't say it here, because we both know what it would mean to her chances. That does it. What a weiner you are. A weiner who changed the topic the first time you brought it up and was prepared to leave it at that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vic Posted June 28, 2007 Share Posted June 28, 2007 Audited financials are too broad and aggregate to answer any of these questions. The internal management reports are what's needed, and they're never released. The sad truth is we'll probably never know what has chronologically been spent, unless someone leaves them in an airport lounge. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
terpfan68 Posted June 28, 2007 Share Posted June 28, 2007 Richard You mention return on your investment. "For reasons which are a quite separate issue, the CSA has limited resources available and common sense would dictate that in order to achieve the best return on investment for these limited resources" Well I think a ninth ranking for the women is quite a return on the investment in the women's program and a very poor return for the men's. to soccer's post on the lack of funding for the under-20 and under-17 programs is very indicative of the inequity Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CoachRich Posted June 28, 2007 Share Posted June 28, 2007 Some interesting reads in Sports Canada Sport Funding and Accountability Framework - http://www.canadianheritage.gc.ca/progs/sc/prog/cfrs-sfaf/index_e.cfm The SFAF III Assessment Weighting Grid outlines the various sections and components with their relative weight - http://www.canadianheritage.gc.ca/progs/sc/prog/cfrs-sfaf/financement-funding_2005-2010/grille-grid_e.cfm 2005-2010 Funding Cycle: Assessment Points and Ranking Lists – Mainstream - http://www.canadianheritage.gc.ca/progs/sc/prog/cfrs-sfaf/financement-funding_2005-2010/regulier-mainstream_e.cfm 2005-2010 Funding Cycle: Assessment Points and Ranking Lists - Athletes with a Disability - http://www.canadianheritage.gc.ca/progs/sc/prog/cfrs-sfaf/financement-funding_2005-2010/handisport-awad_e.cfm Accountability - The three Accountability Policy Areas are Enhanced Excellence, Enhanced Participation, and Enhanced Capacity. Each policy area includes several specific NSO accountability areas. For each area, there is an objective and national standards. The nine NSO accountability areas are: Enhanced Excellence: High performance Athlete focused Enhanced Participation: Participation, access & opportunity. Enhanced Capacity: Sport development Official languages Governance and ethics Women in sport Athletes with a disability Harassment and abuse Sport Funding and Accountability News Release - Canada's New Government Contributes $4.2 Million Towards Hosting the 2007 FIFA Under 20 World Cup - http://www.canadianheritage.gc.ca/newsroom/index_e.cfm?fuseaction=displayDocument&DocIDCd=CHG061141 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CoachRich Posted June 28, 2007 Share Posted June 28, 2007 Sports Canada Contributions over the years which shows how based upon the performance measuring formulas in my last post, hosting events & etc for how much money sports get - 2002-03 http://www.pch.gc.ca/progs/sc/contributions/2002-2003/0002-3_e.cfm 2003-04 http://www.canadianheritage.gc.ca/progs/sc/contributions/2003-2004-2/2003-4_e.cfm 2004-05 http://www.patrimoinecanadien.gc.ca/progs/sc/contributions/2004-2005-2/2004-5_e.cfm 2005-06 http://www.patrimoinecanadien.gc.ca/progs/sc/contributions/2005-2006-2/index_e.cfm 2006-07 http://www.canadianheritage.gc.ca/progs/sc/contributions/2006-2007-2/index_e.cfm I find it interesting in how soccer compares to other sports in getting funds from Sports Canada. One thing is for sure is that Sports Canada is into Sports Tourism/Hosting of Events. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Richard Posted June 28, 2007 Author Share Posted June 28, 2007 quote:Originally posted by terpfan68 Richard You mention return on your investment. "For reasons which are a quite separate issue, the CSA has limited resources available and common sense would dictate that in order to achieve the best return on investment for these limited resources" Well I think a ninth ranking for the women is quite a return on the investment in the women's program and a very poor return for the men's. Good point :-) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DJT Posted June 29, 2007 Share Posted June 29, 2007 quote:Originally posted by CoachRich CBC World Report at 6 interview of the WNT on Gender Equity last week that aired today [June 26, 2007]. NOTE it 4 minute segment changes each day so it's only there today unless someone wants to host the mp3 file I have!!!! It has Karina LeBlanc & Colin Linford being interviewed. CBC World Report at 6 at http://www.cbc.ca/w6/audio.html w/ the interview starting 19:22 minutes in. Oops, I didn't realize that CoachRich sent me two different MP3s and I posted the wrong one. So, let's try it again: MP3 of the segment described above (approx. 3.86 MB) MP3 of a shorter segment (approx. 2 mins) featuring Carrie Serwetnyk, Amy Walsh and Colin Linford (approx. 1.82 MB) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fan Posted June 30, 2007 Share Posted June 30, 2007 "For reasons which are a quite separate issue, the CSA has limited resources available and common sense would dictate that in order to achieve the best return on investment for these limited resources" More smoke to cover incompetence as TFC financial picture has proved. It is ridiculous to comment on finances from an organization that has not published a budget since 2003. Which in of itself allows too much room and time for comfort and now with u20 World cup funds poring in, this is too questionable for the CSA. This a totally unacceptable and even a forensic audit likely couldn't expose the truth. The mere fact that budgets have not been revealed means everyone responsible in the CSA for presenting a budget should be removed and investigated. It could not be clearer. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CoachRich Posted July 2, 2007 Share Posted July 2, 2007 FIFA makes 2007 Women's World Cup a test case Associated Press ZURICH, Switzerland — There will be more than national pride on the line at the Women's World Cup in China. At stake will be the direction of the sport. FIFA is using this year's tournament a test case. It has put off until late November decisions about which nation will host the 2011 Women's World Cup and how many teams that tournament will include. Sixteen nations — including such perennial powers as the United States, Norway, Germany, Sweden and Brazil — will head to five Chinese cities for the Sept. 10-30 tournament. "We hope to see some really close matches in China, then we can think about expanding the 2011 tournament from 16 teams to 24," FIFA communications chief Markus Siegler said. "Certainly, 7-0 matches are not good for the sport." The International Olympic Committee has raised the number of women's soccer teams eligible for the 2008 Beijing Games from 10 to 12. "The future of our sport lies with women," FIFA president Sepp Blatter has said. "And it's not just in Western countries. Right now, there is no single country in the world in which women do not play." The U.S. women are ranked No. 1, reclaiming the top spot this spring from Germany. This year is the fifth time the Women's World Cup has been held since the tournament began in 1991. The United States won in 1991 and 1999, Norway won in 1995 and Germany in 2003. Australia, Canada, France, Germany and Peru are bidding for the 2011 World Cup in a tough competition in which the Swiss already have withdrawn. On the men's side, only one nation — Brazil — is in the running for the 2014 World Cup. The announcement of the host country is Nov. 25. While FIFA has a continental rotation system in place to chose hosts for the men's World Cups, no such system guides the women. The only general policy is that the tournament cannot return to the same continent four years later, a guideline broken in 2003 when the Asian SARS epidemic prompted FIFA to switch the tournament from China to the United States. France and Canada appear to have the strongest bids for 2011. "Most people think of Canada as a hockey nation, but we have more girls playing soccer in Canada than we have boys playing hockey," said Colin Linford, president of the Canadian soccer federation. More than 350,000 Canadian girls play soccer and the number grows each year as top Canadian players seek college scholarships in the United States, he said. Canada already has sold 750,000 tickets, a record number, for the men's under-20 World Cup tournament this July, and its women are ranked 10th in the world. Germany has a powerhouse women's team and held a successful men's World Cup last year. But for that reason, it may be too soon to give the country another World Cup. That could open the door for France, whose women are seventh in the world and whose men were runners-up in the 2006 World Cup. France also is a key member of European soccer's governing body. Australia has excellent facilities from the 2000 Olympics and a 14th-ranked team, but it just joined the same regional group as China, this year's host and the host for the 2008 Olympics. Peru would appear to be a long shot. Its women are ranked 42nd and its infrastructure and fan support for women's soccer are less developed. It's also in a spat with FIFA over the world body's ban on holding international matches in stadiums at high altitude. So 2011 depends on 2007. Today's stars hope to generate even more opportunities for women in the world's most popular sport. "We want to show the world the high quality of soccer that women can play — not just winning soccer, but attractive, attacking, goal-scoring soccer," U.S. player Heather O'Reilly said. "We can put on a show that is worthy of world attention." http://www.globesports.com/servlet/story/RTGAM.20070701.wsptwcup1/GSStory/GlobeSportsSoccer/home Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Regs Posted July 2, 2007 Share Posted July 2, 2007 Sepp Blather also said the women should wear sexier uniforms. What if he said: The future of our sport is 8 year-old boys. Right now there is no single country in the world in which 8 year-old boys do not play. Thus we are opening the bidding for the 2013 FIFA TONKA TRUCK Toddler World Cup The grassroots movement should be all over it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vic Posted July 2, 2007 Share Posted July 2, 2007 Can't believe you said that. Pretty low comparison. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Regs Posted July 2, 2007 Share Posted July 2, 2007 I didn't say it, Sepp Blather did. Do you get the point? Obviously not, nevermind. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CoachRich Posted July 3, 2007 Share Posted July 3, 2007 Great article & interesting look from Ben Khight at how the WNT has contributed to soccer in Canada........ http://www.sportsnet.ca/soccer/columnist.jsp?content=20070702_141504_5524 Good start, soggy finish July 02,2007 Ben Knight Despite an ugly 3-0 loss to Chile, these are great days for Canadian soccer. Late in the warm, sunny afternoon of September 1, 2002, a soccer ball squirted into the open on the green grass of Commonwealth Stadium in Edmonton. As 47,000 spectators held their breath, Christine Sinclair of Canada - still a teenager and already one of the finest female footballers in her nation's history - stepped in and hoofed the ball just achingly over the American crossbar. It was very late in the second half of a scoreless match - the final of the inaugural FIFA Under-19 Women's World Cup. Had Sinclair's shot been just a couple of ball-widths lower, it would almost certainly have achieved the previously unthinkable: A World Cup championship for Canada. It didn't happen. Sinclair has since gone on to fashion an amazing career as the best women's college soccer player on the planet, but on that day it was the Americans who claimed victory on a dramatic goal in extra time. Canada was denied the Cup, but that amazing game in Edmonton has produced many triumphs since. Directly because of that day, FIFA granted the Canadian Soccer Association a large and generous cheque to begin planning for a new national soccer stadium. After many stops and starts, BMO Field opened this spring on the former site of the left field bleachers at old Exhibition Stadium. Toronto FC - Canada's first entry in Major League Soccer - literally would not exist today but for that amazing afternoon in Edmonton five years ago. And also, because of that day, Canada is now hosting the FIFA Under-20 World Cup - the second-biggest single-sport tournament on the planet. This entire thrilling Canadian soccer boom of 2007 - with packed stadiums, stomping crowds and a pulsing explosion of soccer awareness and interest - was all born from the brilliance of the Canadian and American girls in Edmonton that day - and the unbelievable number of fans who turned up to watch the deal go down. Cut ahead almost five years, and now it's the boys' turn. Sunday night at BMO Field - check that. "The National Soccer Stadium." FIFA has taken over Toronto's gleaming new soccer park, and all evidence of its title sponsor has been erased. All except a helicopter that circled until nightfall, dragging a large banner advertising the financial services corporation in question. This idea of one stadium having multiple names does not sit well, but it's another story for another time. Canada's vaunted and highly acclaimed Under-20s took the field against Chile, amidst great colour, excitement and pageantry. Flags of both nations flew everywhere you looked. Watching from the very edge of the seats in the cool and windy northeast corner, the anticipation was electric. … For about two minutes. Alas, whatever fairy tale Canadian soccer is writing, forward progress was given the rest of the night off. The Canadians looked tentative and confused, while the poised, free-flowing Chileans were superb. The ball did what Chile told it to all night. Their midfield never put a foot wrong, utterly controlling their red-shirted - and red-faced - opponents, who produced very few forward balls, and even fewer useful ones. The Canadian fans - scattered all over the stadium by the relentless randomness of the ticket allocation process - never truly found their voice. The Chileans, neatly concentrated in three distinct and rowdy pockets in each of the three grandstands, stomped and chanted and essentially took over the joint. How they pulled off their seating arrangements will be a matter of ongoing speculation for the Canadian fans, who certainly weren't taking it well in the post-match dispersal. You're going to hear a lot of renewed criticism now about Toronto, a city already famous for dominating performances by the opposing team's spectators. Personally, I thought the Chilean support was fantastic. It was wonderful see hundreds and hundreds of flag-waving folk, thousands of miles from their native land with a fleeting chance to see and cheer for their team, having such a blast doing exactly that. If you exiled all the Canadian fans to Greenland, and Canada showed up years later to play Denmark in a friendly, how do you suppose they would react? Exactly like the Chileans did. And the score was certainly a factor, as well. It was one of the worst Canadian outings in recent memory. That does nothing to boost the home-field atmosphere. But it's a blip, people. The new age of Canadian soccer continues to dawn, and vastly better days await. Canada will have to do better in their next two matches, Austria on Thursday and Congo next Sunday. And just to up the ante, both those games will be played where this happy story first began - at Commonwealth Stadium in Edmonton. Sport - unlike Hollywood - has always been a universe where the good guys don't have to win. If you're a Canada fan, getting swatted like that in the first major game after so many consecutive miracles is certainly hard to take. But the miracles are real. Watching from the corner seats, I was still having trouble believing that this game, the stadium and this tournament were all taking place in Toronto. This is a town where soccer fans, traditionally, sit in uncomfortable seats twenty miles or more from the edge of the pitch. No more. Despite the ugly 0-3 scoreline, I can't wait for the rest of this tournament. If all these blessings arose directly from a single spirited kick-around in northern Alberta five years ago, what wonders - and triumphs - are yet to come? Go get 'em, guys! Onward! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CoachRich Posted July 3, 2007 Share Posted July 3, 2007 CBC Radio One WNT interviews now on the CBC FIFA U20 Site in 3 segments http://www.cbc.ca/sports/fifau20/ Click on Video in the blue Navigation Menu accross the top which takes you to this link http://www.cbc.ca/sports/player/ Click on CBC Radio One There are 3 interviews to click on Women's WC Preparation - Amy Walsh says it like it is!!!! Equal Opportunity The Pursuit of Attention Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fan Posted July 7, 2007 Share Posted July 7, 2007 "The numbers don't add up" in that list is there if you hold your mouse over the titles then move it up or down. That spells it out as accurately as I have heard in a while. Like Colin has said himself the CSA scouting doesn't even look at "other" players outside of their narrow criteria. Then like Papa Deguzman says they hassle and alienate any player who does make it in another country. Who cares why they don't look, they don't look and that is a bias as I have stated many times that kills our sport. Stop wasting our time and your energy supporting this crap and the people who have been delivering this crap for 20 years and more. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Richard Posted July 8, 2007 Author Share Posted July 8, 2007 "Stop wasting our time and your energy supporting this crap and the people who have been delivering this crap for 20 years and more." And your suggested constructive alternative is? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fishman Posted July 8, 2007 Share Posted July 8, 2007 I can't speak for Fan, but perhaps he is suggesting that Canadian soccer's current delivery model is not just flawed, but in serious need of overhaul. Why is it that parents happily take their child to gymnastics, swimming, skiing, figure skating or other individual sports and think little of paying for the services of a paid, qualified instructor? In fact, they demand quality supervision and coaching, as evidenced by the fees they willingly plunk down. Team sports, especially soccer, are driven by volunteer coaches...moms and dads that are handed a few bibs, some uniforms, under-inflated balls and mismatched cones at the start of a season are then charged with the task of developing players. You want an alternative? Drive player development through improved coaching education. Upgrade coaching education through the incentive of paid positions. Very few people will get wealthy from soccer in Canada, but perhaps we need to look at our coaching community with a tad more respect. Registration fees for soccer remain firmly entrenched in a recreational mode - players (and parents) get what they pay for... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CoachRich Posted July 9, 2007 Share Posted July 9, 2007 The CSA model is flawed & the same can be said of most NSO in Canada. Presently Sports Canada is templating a model for all NSO's to use that will create a national development pathway for all NSO's so players of that sport will have the best chance to be selected & Sports Canada can better justify the spending of $ on players & NSO's. Theh template will be in the next year. W/ paid coaching & it's development it has a problem in taht where do the players go after U18. The development model that works best IMO is the one used by the Pro clubs where they use a farm / apprenticeship system. Btw before I would spend money on a boat load of paid coaches I would insure the club has access to AT's w/ lights. A lot of clubs are into paid coaching but they don't really have the facilities. Presenlty, too many players & families are having to pay for coaching when the paid coaching should be that of the Pro Clubs. Also, paid coaching depending on how it is papered can be open to soe illegal issues due to the constitutions of PSO, Clubs & etc. Too many clubs or teams are engaging paid coaches w/out legal understandings of how it fits into the PSO. Further what are the guidelines for a paid coach ie, CSA certificates, old boys clubs or what. To get to more Pro Clubs, the CSA has to do a better job of creating a market for soccer to businesses & cities so they can invest & get a ROI.Once there are Pro Clubs development will happen. The US system of Premier (paid coaching), Selects & House seems to work well in placing players into the farm system of clubs or the US Soccer or scholarships. Registration Fees in Vancouver on average are about $200 - 250 for girls. Select boys (some Metro girls this season) level programs run by the NSSDC that is associated to the BCSA charge $1400 per player for pro coach. Presently, I don't seen any great difference in how well the teams are doing in Provincial Cups. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CoachRich Posted July 10, 2007 Share Posted July 10, 2007 Good discussion on the state of the game in Canada from several different hosts & callers - http://www.cbc.ca/checkup/archives.html July 8, 2007 with guest host Rick Cluff "Could hockey-obsessed Canada ever become a world soccer power?" Introduction - http://www.cbc.ca/checkup/archive/2007/intro070708.html Guests - http://www.cbc.ca/checkup/archive/2007/guests070708.html Letters - http://www.cbc.ca/checkup/letters070708.html Listen to the program in Real Audio - http://www.cbc.ca/checkup/archive/2007/070708CC.ram Listen to the program in MP3 format - http://www.cbc.ca/checkup/archive/2007/070708CC.mp3 (To download: right click and choose 'Save Target As') Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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