An open letter to the CSA

[red card]

I ditto Regs, grassroots should not drive CSA.

It's one of the primary reasons why Cdn national teams aren't producing at or above their weight.

Grassroots = narrow views, protect my turf, limited vision etc.. with little or no accountability. So, when you have media articles lambasting the CSA, look yourself in the mirror Grassroots, they're pointing at the finger at you.

[CoachRich]

I'm only looking at affilation dollars. I don't think either of us can compare revenue dollars as the CSA doesn't make their financials public.

You are right the $6.3 is wrong....reading to fast & thanks for pointing that out. I guess the easiest comparison is there are only 545,000 reg'ed hockey players to 854,000 so starting off w/ affiliaton fees CSA has more breathing room to get a start to market itself effectively. HC blows the doors off any NSO when it comes to marketing so what are they doing better than CSA. Should we as members not be conncerned?

On gender, I make no mention of dollars, only on reg numbers. I think it would be easy for any of us to remember how well the HC WNT was supported in their residency camps, lead up games & etc to all their achievements. They got a lot of money for their program even when only 15% of HC is female.

I'm not infering your Euro comment. The issue there is that CSA has done nothing to build the sport so our Country can retain some of our better players at home. TFC is looking promising & hopefully Montreal & Vancouver will follow but the whole soccer community needs to work on building leagues to keep our talent home as best as possible.

My point is programing should be based on gender equity (43-57%). This is a issue w/ the WNT right now. I don't think either program minds sharing if there is a banner revenue of an event w/ but right now the focus is as Lindford is quoted in the Toronto Star -"We'd love to have a game, but are you going to bankrupt the association to do it?" he asked. Not a great statement on the CSA's finanical position & a supportive comment to the WNT nor us members.

I'm not sure what you mean "grassroots should control the whole structure". I don't think they can either if you mean CSA (NSO) & Pro Leagues. CSA is grassroots(amateur)& are purely that by how the BOD is created. Sadly like at all levels of soccer there are politics, lack of experience, old boys/pros club, no business/marketing minds & etc. Staff on the other hand should be the best we can buy to help reform the barriers in the grassroots & reshape the CSA into a NSO that is moving forward instead of being stuck & a business like entity that generates funds to build the sport so development is world class & participation increase......like HC does :-)

[fan]

Thought I would add my post that GBR has a topic thread dealing with this too. The CSA has been pulling this "lack of funding crap" for way too long to compensate for the fact there just not capable of doing the job anymore. Now they play the Mens team off against the Women's and other programs in a bad shell game. Leaving stupefied Canadian soccer fans debating moot points endlessly.

The merest amount of business acumen could make more than enough funding for all teams. With soccers popularity and participation so high in Canada it screams at the business incompetence of the CSA. Stop pushing this nonsense about lack of funding down our throats in the media and at meetings.

Look Colin you did some excellent things right in hiring the new guy and firing Pipe now just be quiet about the "lack of funding" and go raise it with professionals who are good at doing exactly that and stop splintering our game.

[CoachRich]

fan = 2 thumbs up

[DoyleG]

It's very funny to watch the "gener equality" group argue that funds should be based on gender rather than potential for revenue. The women have no potential to produce the revenue need to make soccer sustainable. That goes with every other sport in the world.

Can remember someone posting an article on this board about a similar thing happening to Basketball Canada and that they had to treat both sides equally. Doing that hurts the long-term development of the sport in Canada.

Going back to women's hockey, Canada just simply dominates at this level. No country can match the talent pool that Canada has (Some countries have a female talent pool of only a couple hundred players). Yet all that success hasn't led to a financial winfall for the women players. Many still gain their income through personal enterprises or through Sport Canada's carding system.

The WUSA was used as a vehicle for the USWNT and the league collapsed under huge debt. It's also that the NBA's continued financial support is what keeps the WNBA alive.

Until the men's national team is competing in the World Cup on a regualr basis, financial support should be directed towards them to make it so. It's the only way for the sport to grow in Canada.

[georg]

quote:Originally posted by DoyleG

It's very funny to watch the "gener equality" group argue that funds should be based on gender rather than potential for revenue. The women have no potential to produce the revenue need to make soccer sustainable. That goes with every other sport in the world.

Can remember someone posting an article on this board about a similar thing happening to Basketball Canada and that they had to treat both sides equally. Doing that hurts the long-term development of the sport in Canada.

Going back to women's hockey, Canada just simply dominates at this level. No country can match the talent pool that Canada has (Some countries have a female talent pool of only a couple hundred players). Yet all that success hasn't led to a financial winfall for the women players. Many still gain their income through personal enterprises or through Sport Canada's carding system.

The WUSA was used as a vehicle for the USWNT and the league collapsed under huge debt. It's also that the NBA's continued financial support is what keeps the WNBA alive.

Until the men's national team is competing in the World Cup on a regualr basis, financial support should be directed towards them to make it so. It's the only way for the sport to grow in Canada.

I guess that's the same with with Tennis, Golf, Gymnastic, Equestrian and Water Polo...etc....

[Vic]

quote:

Until the men's national team is competing in the World Cup on a regualr basis, financial support should be directed towards them to make it so. It's the only way for the sport to grow in Canada.

Thanks for the update. You may want to take a look at what we've been doing for the last 25 years and how successful it's been. And while you're at it, you may also want to read up on civil and constitutional rights. But my guess is words that long confuse you.

[Regs]

Civil and constitutional rights?

Jeezus, man, why not pull out the race card while you're at it. It has about the same relevance in this topic.

[Massive Attack]

quote:Originally posted by Regs

Civil and constitutional rights?

Jeezus, man, why not pull out the race card while you're at it. It has about the same relevance in this topic.

Agreed. Anyone trying to turn this into a rights debate needs to have their head examined.

The Women's team is treated quite well. Sure, we needed a business man to step in and help out, but good on Kerfoot.

As has been stated a few times in this thread, the WNT plays way more games then the men. Plus they are paid to play the game full time. These just look like lame attempts to create controversy.

[Vic]

If it was racism believe me I would be the first.

"racism is a belief or ideology that all members of each race possess characteristics or abilities specific to that race, especially to distinguish it as being either superior or inferior to another race or races."

quote:

"The women have no potential to produce the revenue need to make soccer sustainable. That goes with every other sport in the world."

That's called bigotry. And the reason we created those rights, is to take discrimination and sterotyping like that, and put it in it's place.

[Massive Attack]

quote:Originally posted by Vic

If it was racism believe me I would be the first.

"racism is a belief or ideology that all members of each race possess characteristics or abilities specific to that race, especially to distinguish it as being either superior or inferior to another race or races."

That's called bigotry. And the reason we created those rights, is to take discrimination and sterotyping like that, and put it in it's place.

Stop taking the debate off-topic. (Never mind the fact that you seem to have a poor grip of what the term bigotry means. Can't believe I'm defending DoyleG).

Show me where the Canadian Women's Team are being treated unfairly.

That's something that I would like to hear about.

[CoachRich]

Read -

Canadian women deserve more respect

http://www.thestar.com/Article/221199

From Matheson's journal @ Rhian's site:

quote:

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

As an aside - As a team we have really appreciated the support we have been getting recently, on the website forums, and in the media regarding the inequities which we face in our National Soccer programs. Thanks

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

http://www.gobigred.ca/forum/ubb/ultimatebb.php?/topic/1/250/3.html

If you know any of the players talk to them.

Look at the scheduling of games at CSA.

Big question is what sort of example does this send to female youth players? Who Btw watch women's soccer more than mens. The only mens player most can name is only Cristiano vs the majority of the WNT.

If CSA distributed their financials we might see where the MNT & WNT programs differ. Btw weren't you concerned w/ Linford's comments about hosting a friendly in Canada for the WNT would bankrupt the CSA. Sure instills a lot of confidence in whats going on.

"Colin Linford, president of the Canadian Soccer Association, said it's unlikely the women's team will have a single exhibition game on home grass before the Sept. 10-30 World Cup in China because they don't have the resources to stage one.

"We'd love to have a game, but are you going to bankrupt the association to do it?" he asked."

Where's our women's soccer club?

http://www.thestar.com/Sports/article/221200

[Massive Attack]

quote:Originally posted by CoachRich

Read -

Canadian women deserve more respect

http://www.thestar.com/Article/221199

From Matheson's journal @ Rhian's site:

quote:

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

As an aside - As a team we have really appreciated the support we have been getting recently, on the website forums, and in the media regarding the inequities which we face in our National Soccer programs. Thanks

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

http://www.gobigred.ca/forum/ubb/ultimatebb.php?/topic/1/250/3.html

If you know any of the players talk to them.

Look at the scheduling of games at CSA.

Big question is what sort of example does this send to female youth players? Who Btw watch women's soccer more than mens. The only mens player most can name is only Cristiano vs the majority of the WNT.

But that is just an op-ed. It doesn't necessarily make it true.

As has been stated by others, the Women NT plays more matches then the men and receives much better prep than the men.

You don't see me crying about gender equality for the men do you?

All we have here are people trying to push their own agendas.

[Vic]

They play more matches, because they do it on less money, and make the monetary sacrifices to be available. And I don't have to put that in bold.

quote:

All we have here are people trying to push their own agendas.

Funny you should say that.

[Bill Spiers]

For some information on CSA finances, you may want to review one of the discussion threads at:

http://www.ontariosoccerweb.com/ost/forum.php

Go to Canadian National Teams >> The CSA >> Page 4

[Regs]

You don't have to put it in bold because the same really could be said for male players whom, to play for their country, risk losing their positions at their club teams.

[Vic]

The same really could be said for male players? Which part? That they do it on less money? That they make the monetary sacrifices to be available?

Risk losing their positions at their club teams? The entire WNT gave up their positions to train for the WC this year.

[Vic]

Thanks very much Bill Spiers.

[Regs]

A male player losing his position on his club team has a direct effect on his monetary situation.

A female player training for the WC this year is making more money doing so than playing for her club team, no?

Why is there no equal program opportunity for the men in this regard?

[Vic]

A female player is making more money because someone in the private sector provided the funds to do it. It sure wasn't the CSA.

quote:

Why is there no equal program opportunity for the men in this regard?

Because guy's like you haven't gone in your pocketbook or done anything to make it happen. Ask Greg Kerfoot. But I'm sure the answer he'd give you is none of the men would accept $20k for a year, and even if they did, he doesn't like the odds of it achieving anything given the past 25 years of men's soccer in Canada.

[The Ref]

What Linford says about a home game for the women will bankrupt the CSA is probably true, but not because of lack of support, but really because the CSA can't control their expenditures and do a poor job at that. There are many communities in Canada that would throw the house out the window and stage an international game or even a small tournament with just local support from businesses and the like. The problem seems to be that provincial associations want to have total control of any such endeavor by other cities and/or the CSA want a big slice of the pie.

[Massive Attack]

quote:Originally posted by Vic

They play more matches, because they do it on less money, and make the monetary sacrifices to be available. And I don't have to put that in bold.

Funny you should say that.

I am just a fan. I support the men and women's teams equally. Unlike most men, I've actually attended games involving the women's national team.

But what I'm sick of seeing is the program in this country being split into a men v. women debate.

I don't have an agenda like you obviously do.

quote:Originally posted by Vic

The same really could be said for male players? Which part? That they do it on less money? That they make the monetary sacrifices to be available?

Risk losing their positions at their club teams? The entire WNT gave up their positions to train for the WC this year.

This argument is laughable considering that the majority of female players would be playing in the W-League earning next to nothing.

[Regs]

quote:Originally posted by Vic

A female player is making more money because someone in the private sector provided the funds to do it. It sure wasn't the CSA.

Because guy's like you haven't gone in your pocketbook or done anything to make it happen. Ask Greg Kerfoot. But I'm sure the answer he'd give you is none of the men would accept $20k for a year, and even if they did, he doesn't like the odds of it achieving anything given the past 25 years of men's soccer in Canada.

Guy's like me? If only that were true - I've dropped thousands of dollars promoting this game over the years so let's not get personal, ok?

My question regarding a similar program for the men was directed specifically at this notion of equal opportunity or lack thereof. In this specific instance, it doesn't seem to be equal. There is no similar program for the men. If you can argue about civil rights and equal opportunities, then be open to constructive questions going the other way without resorting to personal attacks.

Isn't any type of sponsorship from "the private sector"? How do you know specifically if it was not the CSA that approached Mr. Kerfoot initially looking for a way to better fund the WNT?

[Vic]

Personal attack? "Because guy's like you haven't gone in your pocketbook"? Woah. That's a little sensitive, and what does that make "needs their head examined?" Would you rather I used that vernacular? How about repeatedly being told you have a nefarious agenda, or don't understand bigotry (which is hilariously ironic).

Your question was why is their no equal program opportunity for the men in this regard? And the answer is, because no one in this country, yourself included, has followed Greg Kerfoot's example to put up the cash to provide a similar program. And if you find that offensive, I'm truly sorry.

quote:

How do you know specifically if it was not the CSA that approached Mr. Kerfoot initially looking for a way to better fund the WNT?

In a year now, I've never once heard it intonated that anyone approached him. But the truth is, nobody does, because when anyone questioned them to find out anything about it, they quickly threw the cloak of silence over the whole thing (and Pipe got exited stage left).

[Regs]

I never once said you needed your head examined, nor did I say you didn't understand bigotry, nor did I say you had a nefarious agenda. You can take that up with whomever did, so do not attempt to use it as an excuse in any posts directed at myself. Thanks.

So who questioned the CSA that you know?

Now, you don't know me, but I will tell you flat out that it was the CSA, through Evan Pellerud that approached Mr. Kerfoot regarding the residency program. I will also post here that in 2006 the women's program had a larger budget than the men. Over the last 5 years, roughly the same amount of money has been budgeted for the men and women.

Odd that I found no cloak of silence when I called my contact in the CSA and asked him specifically about this.

BTW, off-topic but Rob Friend is starting tonight according to my contact... good news for the team!