Whitecaps sign Valente and free agent Lyle Martin

[Calgary Boomer]

quote:Originally posted by Krammerhead

Whitecaps/86ers attendance since being founded has been nearly the same, year after year, regardless of winning, losing or mediocre seasons.

Because they play in a ****ty amatuer facility that only has so much room.

[Calgary Boomer]

quote:Originally posted by Grizzly

If winning minor league titles is more important to you than the development of Canadian players I don't think you are much of a fan of Canadian soccer. Basically what I am hearing from several posters is that they are willing to support a team that has a philosophy of placing winning and making a profit as the top priorities as long as it is located in their hometown.

What a complete and utter load of garbage. Without profit, WE DON'T HAVE A TEAM! In fact, THERE IS NO PROFIT, and we're lucky to have a team in Vancouver! If you don't have a team in Vancouver, how the hell are you supposed to play Canadian talent???

To suggest you're not a fan of Canadian Soccer because your team is successful and trying to find the BEST PLAYERS POSSIBLE is so incredibly ignorant, because in the long run, just having teams playing at a high standard in this country will ENCOURAGE Canadian players to have something to aim for.

I wonder if this bogus and never ending argument is more anti-American sentiment than anything else...

[Calgary Boomer]

quote:Originally posted by Jeffrey S.

Have to agree with Gianluca and Grizzly on this.

I find it much more interesting to watch young talent grow and if it is local or Canadian even better. I don't mind those odd Americans who show committment and develop well, but most of them don't know or care where they are, they have no committment to the club or the place or even care about the history, which in the case of the Whitecaps is rather sad (especially when so much of its history in the form of the Lenarduzzi boys is still around).

Then you obviously have a short memory, because in the NASL days, Canadian players represented 5% of the entire roster. The rest of them COULD CARE LESS about what city they lived in, as long as they collected a GIANT paycheque.

[Calgary Boomer]

quote:Originally posted by Krammerhead

Gjertson perhaps. The others? Probably not. I believe the others had relationships with Lilley, and are the reason they joined the squad.

The only player that had a previous relationship with Lilly was Steve Klein. Testo was picked up as a free agent from Columbus, Donatelli was spotted at an MLS combine, and Gjertson was an invite who even the Sounders passed over.

[Grizzly]

quote:Originally posted by Calgary Boomer

What a complete and utter load of garbage. Without profit, WE DON'T HAVE A TEAM! In fact, THERE IS NO PROFIT, and we're lucky to have a team in Vancouver! If you don't have a team in Vancouver, how the hell are you supposed to play Canadian talent???

To suggest you're not a fan of Canadian Soccer because your team is successful and trying to find the BEST PLAYERS POSSIBLE is so incredibly ignorant, because in the long run, just having teams playing at a high standard in this country will ENCOURAGE Canadian players to have something to aim for.

I wonder if this bogus and never ending argument is more anti-American sentiment than anything else...

No, the complete, utter load of garbage is the inaccurate information you have just posted. I never stated the teams shouldn't make a profit only that it should not be the only purpose of the team so maybe you should read my posts and not put words in my mouth. If you enjoy watching profit making why don't you visit the stock exchange. Most of these foreign players are in fact more expensive than their Canadian counterparts. What exactly is the point of having teams in Canada if they are not playing Canadian players and yes 3 or 4 is not an adequate number of Canadians? My opinion has nothing to do with anti-Americanism so once again stop trying to put words in my mouth and try to at least respond to my opinions as they are written. I have nothing against a couple of Americans or other foreigners playing on a team if they are top performers. I don't think both Canadian teams should have 5 Americans each. There are American USL teams for the American players to develop on, the Canadians teams should be developing Canadian players.

[DarnCherry]

quote:Originally posted by Calgary Boomer

Because they play in a ****ty amatuer facility that only has so much room.

Yes, how nice that they continually reduce the capacity of the stadium. It used to be around 7,199 as late as 2003 and in the CSL days they'd fit even more than that in there. Year by year since 1987 crowds have always averaged around 2-3K less than capacity. They have since reduced capacity of the stadium making the empty seats fewer. That being said it still doesn't change my what I said. Win, lose, or play dreadfully boring soccer the attendance really doesn't reflect what type of season the Whitecaps are having. Seasons dogged by poor weather on the other hand.....

[Grizzly]

For those advocating the importance of winning the championship, how many of the fans actually care? I was there when Vancouver beat Montreal in the semi-final and while I am sure most would have preferred Montreal win noone (except for Daniel ) really cared that much that they lost. The reaction wasn't even comparable to the feeling in Montreal when the Habs lose an unimportant regular season game. In fact what seems to interest the majority of fans the most is whether they can get a shirt from the mascot firing then into the crowd. From what I have heard from Vancouverites, the atmosphere at Caps games is even more apathetic than the one in Montreal. While I don't doubt that attendance would go down if the team lost every week as long as it is half decent I think the attendance stays about the same. So many of the Impact's tickets are free giveaways or group purchases anyway. The Caps have a very small stadium so it is not like winning the Championship allows them to sell thousands of more tickets. How much profit does winning the USL championship actually bring? I doubt it is very significant revenue wise, more bragging rights than anything else.

[Johnnie Monster]

quote:Originally posted by Grizzly

I am sure if an accountant were to look at the financial records of the Caps he could find a lot of government revenue.

I am almost certain the Caps receive nothing in the way of government support other than a $2 share of every $8 Swangard parking ticket sold by the city of Burnaby.

[Gordon]

I am amused...TFCs development players more interesting that Vancouvers? Aside from the fortutitous acquisition of Lombardo, I'd take Cann, Matondo and Vancouver's 2 U-20s over any combination of TFC Development players anyone can derive. I have found TFC's senior roster disappointing - none of the players selected have much room for improvement and because TFC managed to negotiate themselves "extra" American's, they are unlikely to start more than 4 Canadians in any game. I think, when the 2007 MLS salaries come out, we will see that the marquee salaries have not gone to the Canadian players, all of whom would be eminently afordable, and instead are going to American's on the fringe fo the National team. Lovely, just greating lovely...

Of the Canadians on their (TFC) development roster, only, A.J. Gray and possibly Gonsalves have much in the way of upside, I don't think D'Agostino nor Elliot have a lot of upside either frankly so its pretty much a wash between the clubs. Vancouver does a better job that Toronto right now in developing young Canadian talent (although both pursue cheap local talent rather than gather the best canadian talent)...9 BC players (and 12 Canadians) on the senior squad, a full reserve team (all local players). Perhaps someday Toronto will reach Vancouver's standard, its to be expected that a young club owned by a company with zero interest in Canadian soccer would trail a more established side.

[Grizzly]

quote:Originally posted by Johnnie Monster

I am almost certain the Caps receive nothing in the way of government support other than a $2 share of every $8 Swangard parking ticket sold by the city of Burnaby.

Sports teams are famous for getting lots of government revenue whether announced or not. For one thing, what about the tax write-off businesses get when they buy tickets to games which is 50%, basically a government subsidy for rich people to watch sporting events which benefits all teams. I think people are assuming because the owner is extremely rich that the team is not using the myriad of tax and other government revenue streams available to businesses and sports franchises. I stand by my statement that I think an accountant with access to their books could find a lot of government money in Whitecap operations. I am not saying that is wrong either, the Caps should take advantage of whatever tax credits and government funds they can get. Nor am I denigrating the amount of money that Kerfoot is putting in to the Caps. I am only saying that the argument that the Caps are wholly private funded and don't have to give anything back to the community does not hold water.

[Grizzly]

quote:Originally posted by Gordon

I am amused...TFCs development players more interesting that Vancouvers? Aside from the fortutitous acquisition of Lombardo, I'd take Cann, Matondo and Vancouver's 2 U-20s over any combination of TFC Development players anyone can derive. I have found TFC's senior roster disappointing - none of the players selected have much room for improvement and because TFC managed to negotiate themselves "extra" American's, they are unlikely to start more than 4 Canadians in any game. I think, when the 2007 MLS salaries come out, we will see that the marquee salaries have not gone to the Canadian players, all of whom would be eminently afordable, and instead are going to American's on the fringe fo the National team. Lovely, just greating lovely...

Of the Canadians on their (TFC) development roster, only, A.J. Gray and possibly Gonsalves have much in the way of upside, I don't think D'Agostino nor Elliot have a lot of upside either frankly so its pretty much a wash between the clubs. Vancouver does a better job that Toronto right now in developing young Canadian talent (although both pursue cheap local talent rather than gather the best canadian talent)...9 BC players (and 12 Canadians) on the senior squad, a full reserve team (all local players). Perhaps someday Toronto will reach Vancouver's standard, its to be expected that a young club owned by a company with zero interest in Canadian soccer would trail a more established side.

Cann is no longer a young player and is in fact older than both Braz and Pozniak. I was quite disappointed in how much playing time Matondo received last year. While none will develop into superstar, I think all of Braz, Sutton, Pozniak and Reda will benefit from playing at a higher level than they were recently (to be fair two of these are former Impact players but they were stagnating at USL level). At the very least this will improve the quality of our national team depth. I hope Lombardo will develop into a top player with TFC. There is also one more Canadian signing to come. Guzman, Hemming, Gray, Assante are all interesting prospects. Don't know much about Checinski. Not sure what the status is of JP Piques, Joey Melo or Gabe Gala is but at least they were given a tryout. Whether or not they sign I do see TFC giving tryouts to various Canadian guys trying to get their careers going such as Canizales and Budalic something I don't see from our USL teams.

I will admit I am cutting TFC some slack because they are a first year team playing at a higher level. I hope to see Canadian content increase in the future and will call them on it if it doesn't. We also do not know how effective their youth program will be but it couldn't be less productive than the recent accomplishments of those of the USL teams. I feel even in their first year they have not only equalled but surpassed the sorry efforts of the Caps and Impact but yes they should do more in the years to come. In the end the issue of this thread is not what TFC is doing but why the Caps and Impact are doing so little to develop Canadian talent.

[Richard]

The Whitecaps easily rolled over the Fraser Valley Soccer League Allstars 7-1 on Tuesday night at Newton Athletic Park in Surrey, BC.

A quick check of the Whitecaps training camp roster published at the game shows a total of 32 players, 18 of whom are Canadian, 9 are American and the balance from countries that include England, Czech Republic, Netherlands and Costa Rica. I certainly do not see a predominant American presence.

[Grizzly]

Nearly one third of the training camp roster is American and you do not see a predominant American presence? Only barely over half of the players are Canadian and there is a huge number of foreigners. Might not be a huge number for an EPL team but it is huge for a lower division low level team in any country. Especially in a country of 32 million with only 3 professional soccer teams. What percentage of Canadians will be starters for the Caps compared with those sitting on the bench? How many of the Canadians getting playing time will be promising youngsters as opposed to late 20's to 30's veterans? I would cut the Caps some slack if some of the Canadian depth and youth players were graduating to regular players but it is not happening.

[AlanDouglas]

As somebody who has covered Whitecaps/86ers training camps for over a decade, I can tell you that the distribution of Canadian and foreign talent at this camp is not much different now than in years past (though we are seeing more Americans, and fewer from overseas). What is different now is that players are having to compete based purely on merit, whereas before, local players had a clear advantage due to cost considerations (primarily the cost of accomodation). The non-Canadian players are also of a much higher calibre than I've seen at previous camps. Lilley knows his stuff.

So yes, there are now fewer Canadian fringe players being kept on the roster. But as I pointed out above, the number of Canadian prospect who are trying out and being signed is the same as it always has been. The difference is that the Canadian players (including the ones closest to National Team calibre), are being pushed harder than ever to keep their place on the team and/or starting eleven. Those who fail to make the grade are being weeded out. But the increased competition is making better players of those who remain. And isn't that the whole idea?

[Guest Jeffery S.]

quote:Originally posted by AlanDouglas

As somebody who has covered Whitecaps/86ers training camps for over a decade, I can tell you that the distribution of Canadian and foreign talent at this camp is not much different now than in years past (though we are seeing more Americans, and fewer from overseas). What is different now is that players are having to compete based purely on merit, whereas before, local players had a clear advantage due to cost considerations (primarily the cost of accomodation). The non-Canadian players are also of a much higher calibre than I've seen at previous camps. Lilley knows his stuff.

So yes, there are now fewer Canadian fringe players being kept on the roster. But as I pointed out above, the number of Canadian prospect who are trying out and being signed is the same as it always has been. The difference is that the Canadian players (including the ones closest to National Team calibre), are being pushed harder than ever to keep their place on the team and/or starting eleven. Those who fail to make the grade are being weeded out. But the increased competition is making better players of those who remain. And isn't that the whole idea?

Alan, could you name for us one or three Canadian players developed by the Caps, meaning given increasingly more playing time over a few seasons, who are now playing at a higher level? Right now I can't think of any, unless Harmse, supposedly signing for Galaxy, can be called a Caps development (which I don't think he is).

The Whitecaps, in spite of the absurd illusions of Lenarduzzi which I think he has conned Kerfoot into believing, are not a quality pro team in international terms, and certainly don't have the money you would find even in the 2nd tier of leagues in Scandinavia, Switzerland, Austria, Portugal. Nor do they offer their players the opportuntity to go on to something better, to improve their careers. For most it is the be all and end all, which is to say the end of the professional road. And that is not good enough.

If the Caps were a great feeder team for young talent going to pro careers in Europe then we could be talking about something to be proud about. I am not asking for another Beardsley, but something of the sort would not be so outlandish. Toronto teams have produced quite a few solid pros now in top flight teams in Europe. Now that is a legacy to be proud of.

[Calgary Boomer]

quote:Originally posted by Jeffrey S

quote:

Alan, could you name for us one or three Canadian players developed by the Caps, meaning given increasingly more playing time over a few seasons, who are now playing at a higher level? Right now I can't think of any, unless Harmse, supposedly signing for Galaxy, can be called a Caps development (which I don't think he is).

The Whitecaps, in spite of the absurd illusions of Lenarduzzi which I think he has conned Kerfoot into believing, are not a quality pro team in international terms, and certainly don't have the money you would find even in the 2nd tier of leagues in Scandinavia, Switzerland, Austria, Portugal. Nor do they offer their players the opportuntity to go on to something better, to improve their careers. For most it is the be all and end all, which is to say the end of the professional road. And that is not good enough.

If the Caps were a great feeder team for young talent going to pro careers in Europe then we could be talking about something to be proud about. I am not asking for another Beardsley, but something of the sort would not be so outlandish. Toronto teams have produced quite a few solid pros now in top flight teams in Europe. Now that is a legacy to be proud of.

Come on! The Whitecaps organization was only saved from extinction 5 years ago! The 86ers and pre-Kerfoot Whitecaps barely had enough money to pay the roster they coddled together from the local leagues. How are they supposed to shell out for the development of talent?

And in case you haven't noticed, the Whitecaps are trying to build a youth program. They have 14 teams in their Acadmey, which is 14 more than Montreal and Toronto FC. Whether it will yeild a player for the first squad or for a European team is just a matter of time.

I can't believe people on this board. You've got a guy investing a boatload of cash to try and make the Whitecaps one of the best soccer clubs on the continent, and yet people are complaining because they aren't fielding an inferior lineup made up of metro players.

Whitecaps 7 Fraser Valley all-stars 1.

[Free kick]

quote:Originally posted by AlanDouglas

So yes, there are now fewer Canadian fringe players being kept on the roster. But as I pointed out above, the number of Canadian prospect who are trying out and being signed is the same as it always has been. The difference is that the Canadian players (including the ones closest to National Team calibre), are being pushed harder than ever to keep their place on the team and/or starting eleven. Those who fail to make the grade are being weeded out. But the increased competition is making better players of those who remain. And isn't that the whole idea?

Completely agree. Ultimately that will be a good thing for national programs.

[Gian-Luca]

quote:Originally posted by Gordon

Of the Canadians on their (TFC) development roster, only, A.J. Gray and possibly Gonsalves have much in the way of upside, I don't think D'Agostino nor Elliot have a lot of upside either frankly so its pretty much a wash between the clubs.

Don't you think it's a little bit premature, to say the least, to be writing off the careers of Stephen Lumley, Gabe Gala, Richard Asante, David Guzman and Joey Melo?

Maybe not all of them will make it, maybe none of them will, we don't know. Young players, U20 players especially shouldn't be written off at this stage. A lesson to be learned from the comments of Bob Lenarduzzi, who boldy proclaimed when Rob Friend was a member of the U20 team that it would be difficult to see him ever playing for the National team, while he said that Belotte he could easily see playing for the National team & advised Holger to take him to the Copa America (before we had to pull out). Look where those two players are now......

[Free kick]

quote:Originally posted by Gordon

Of the Canadians on their (TFC) development roster, only, A.J. Gray and possibly Gonsalves have much in the way of upside, I don't think D'Agostino nor Elliot have a lot of upside either frankly so its pretty much a wash between the clubs.

I think that that you have it wrong a bit. Gonzalves only gained recognition when his named surfaced here as draft pick for TFC. I dont think that anyone here had heard of him, much less seen him play. besides he was a relatively lower draft pick and latest we heard was that he was trying out for the Impact.

But I was fortunate enough to see Joey Melo play whom you ignored. And, he is very good! And, judging from the entourage at the time that I saw him on the U16 national team, I am far from the only one who rated him highly. He ranked up there along with kennedy Owasu-ansa and Nana attakoraa nd the players that everyone in the minor soccer circles recognized and followed closely. In Melo's case, even more so than Kennedy and Nana

[Calgary Boomer]

quote:Originally posted by Free kick

Completely agree. Ultimately that will be a good thing for national programs.

And one of the great complaints of the pre-Kerfoot teams was that local players were never pushed to be better, and took their places on the squad for granted.

[Grizzly]

quote:Originally posted by Calgary Boomer

Come on! The Whitecaps organization was only saved from extinction 5 years ago! The 86ers and pre-Kerfoot Whitecaps barely had enough money to pay the roster they coddled together from the local leagues. How are they supposed to shell out for the development of talent?

And in case you haven't noticed, the Whitecaps are trying to build a youth program. They have 14 teams in their Acadmey, which is 14 more than Montreal and Toronto FC. Whether it will yeild a player for the first squad or for a European team is just a matter of time.

I can't believe people on this board. You've got a guy investing a boatload of cash to try and make the Whitecaps one of the best soccer clubs on the continent, and yet people are complaining because they aren't fielding an inferior lineup made up of metro players.

Whitecaps 7 Fraser Valley all-stars 1.

Yes I am still waiting for the names of anyone developed by the Caps in the last decade. Alan is saying it is the same way they have been doing business for a long while and I wholly agree. It is the same lack of producing any Canadian talent. Like all of the USL clubs the Caps have had some financial difficulties but I don't think their budget was ever so poor as the Lynx and look who the Lynx produced. The Impact were even in worse shape than the Caps at one time and were also producing some Canadian talent until recently. And the Caps are located in the region that should be the hotbed for producing Canadian soccer talent due to climate. In fact in the good old days of the Caps it was the hotbed for producing Canadian talent. Now the Caps have a boatload of cash and they are still not investing in Canadian talent and are just using it to buy foreigners so they can win Championships by virtue of having a bigger budget than other USL teams and raiding them for their talent.

The Caps have not produced talent recently when they had a small budget and they have not produced since they have a big budget. Noone is criticizing Kerfoot for spending a lot of money on the team the question is is he getting his money's worth. Did he buy the team to win USL championships or does he want to do something for Canadian soccer? I will give him full credit that some of his other actions indicate he wants to do something to develop Canadian soccer. Unlike Saputo, Kerfoot is a hands off owner and trusts his management team and that is exactly where the problem lies. To see why the Caps are not developing talent and are not commited to Canadian soccer the way they should be we have to look no further than a Mr. Lenarduzzi.

[Gordon]

quote:Originally posted by Gian-Luca

Don't you think it's a little bit premature, to say the least, to be writing off the careers of Stephen Lumley, Gabe Gala, Richard Asante, David Guzman and Joey Melo?

Well, I started off by looking at the second post of TFC Roster dance thread so Melo (who is too young to judge one way or another) and Gala were not part of the 28 "spots" although they appear in the list, largely struck out, of trialists. Feel free to exclude them from my commentary. As for Asante, Hemming, Guzman, well they are at the age that one can pretty safely forecast their futures. Sadly, by 21, if they haven't shown enough, they almost certainly never will. Equally, although Lumley is still younger, I do not see him figuring into even TFC's plans let alone Canada's. So I don't see that group as any more interesting, or with Greater potential than the Vancouver group, although, I must concede, I thought Cann 21 or 22 and not 27. Kind of foolish given he came out of NCAA and was drafted by Colorado a few years ago now.

[youllneverwalkalone]

Lumley looks pretty good on the ball to me. Random point, but it was noted above.

I feel for both sides here. I think we need to wait and see what comes of the academy. I fully agree that going to the Whitecaps is about the atmosphere and has little to do with results or the calibre of play. On the other hand, the club isn't capable of fielding a competitive side that was developed in house. Hopefully the legacy of this era will be a higher standard by which the young players coming through the academy will be judged.

ps. As an accountant, who needs to get back to work, I'll briefly say that the Grizz standard of "public" assistance would be difficult for any "private" business to overcome. I gladly take my basic personal credit and RRSP deduction, but I certainly would be offended if you claimed I was receiving goverment assistance. Especially at this time of year. [] However, the Caps do likely present certain tax planning opportunities to Kerfoot personally -although I'm convinced that it is ulitmately the Vancouver/BC soccer community who benefit most from his many initiatives.

[Gordon]

quote:Originally posted by Free kick

I think that that you have it wrong a bit. Gonzalves only gained recognition when his named surfaced here as draft pick for TFC. I dont think that anyone here had heard of him, much less seen him play. besides he was a relatively lower draft pick and latest we heard was that he was trying out for the Impact.

But I was fortunate enough to see Joey Melo play whom you ignored. And, he is very good! And, judging from the entourage at the time that I saw him on the U16 national team, I am far from the only one who rated him highly. He ranked up there along with kennedy Owasu-ansa and Nana attakoraa nd the players that everyone in the minor soccer circles recognized and followed closely. In Melo's case, even more so than Kennedy and Nana

First Tony, it has come clear to me that you and I watch soccer with a different eye, not better, just different. My focus is almost exclusively on Canadian soccer and improvement thereof. I follow "minor" leagues and teams with Canadians and when the Canucks leave, I pay no more attention. 5 years ago, the SPL was a biggie, now Norway. And so, sometime ago, there was a poster who kept an updated list of Canadians in NCAA so I most defintely heard of Gonsalves before he surfaced as a possible pick of TFC. I find him "possibly" interesting because I believe that scoring goals takes a certain 'royal jelly' that transcends simply ability - it is an awareness, a drive, a resourcefulness that not everyone has. Gonsalves scored a hatful of goals in college and that means something to me. I've never seen him play (hence the 'possibly interesting'), and maybe never will if he fades into obscurity, but the ability to score goals, a whatever level, makes a player interesting to me. Maybe they can't carry it forward as they go onto higheer levels, but believe me, no one ever found a scoring touch and the next higher level that did not exist previously.

I do not find sub 18 players to be interesting unless they are clearly playing above thier level. Success is far to random, and many look like workd beaters at 17 and over their head at 20 - see the aforementioned Wyn Belotte as an example. I think its great that Joey Melo gets a chance to train in a professional environement....its why I want more teams not less...and it will enhance, not detract from his chances of "making it" but he is at least a year or two away from being interesting to me.

I flatter perhaps, but I view myself as a pretty good judge of talent. I don't care a whole lot about athleticism, but rather whether a player has that something special that will enable success. Anticipation, understanding of the game, creativity and awareness in attack, the ability to make good decisions when 'normal' play breaks down, or the ability to put the ball in the net. If I see anyone one or more of of those present, then I see a future. A good athlete with run of the mill soccer IQ will not be a national team player. The ability to dribble without purpose, or a good first touch with no ideas on what to do with the second touch will not take one to the higher levels of football, and so, my "interest" in those players is limited. Aside from Lombardo, I can not see any significant differences in the 19-22 year old developmental players on either TFC or VWFC that would lead me to say that either was doing a better job, or had more interesting potential.

Joey Melo might turn out to be a star...at this point, he is too young to hold my interest. It is great that he gets a chance to train in aprofessional environment, it is great that MC2 has a professional opportunity in Canada, and it is great that 4-5 guys get a chance to play in a higher or equal level in Canada with TFC. But in terms of developing Canadian players, I see no real reason to prefer TFC over VWFC. Neither of them are doing an outstanding job, and frankly, I am not sure that it is their responsibility. But if it is, it is an equal responsibility and cutting one slack, while not the other is IMO unreasonable.

[Gian-Luca]

quote:Originally posted by Gordon

As for Asante, Hemming, Guzman, well they are at the age that one can pretty safely forecast their futures. Sadly, by 21, if they haven't shown enough, they almost certainly never will. Equally, although Lumley is still younger, I do not see him figuring into even TFC's plans let alone Canada's.

After watching TFC's match against NYRB I might agree with you on Guzman, but definitely would disagree on Asante, who played a solid 90 minutes & helped to mark Claudio Reyna into relative ineffectiveness. He is quickly becoming, in my eyes, the pleasant Canadian surprise story of TFC & I expect to see him feature in a lot of games this year & in future years based on what I've seen so far.

But I don't want this to turn into a TFC players thread, this isn't even the right part of the forum for that. My point is simply that players can develop over time, particularly in their early 20's, and as such I tend to hesitate in writing people off (be it for TFC, the Whitecaps, Impact or the national team) so early on. I especially wouldn't want to do so for the sake of an internet debate on which professional club develops & plays the most Canadian players, since (as far as I am aware) there is no competition between the Canadian clubs to see who does it the most.