dbailey62 Posted May 12, 2005 Share Posted May 12, 2005 quote:Originally posted by leekoo why MLSE ... don't you think rogers has won this game ... In regards to the Argos, perhaps but this is could be seen as a test of MLSE. Are they serious about MLS. If so, they won't give up on MLS until other facility options have been explored. If it was just a flirtation, they'll let it slide. I don't really see this as Rogers vs. MLSE. db Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
leekoo Posted May 12, 2005 Share Posted May 12, 2005 quote:Originally posted by Gian-Luca Are you just speculating the Rogers might interested in MLS, or do you have some inside info here that they are? what's separating rogers from the MLS .. $10M or so ... rogers has the stadium; MLSE doesn't ... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gian-Luca Posted May 12, 2005 Share Posted May 12, 2005 That didn't answer my question on whether it was speculation, but after the news today I'm not getting my hopes up on mysterious non-answers. I had thought MLS wanted SSS for their expansion teams, however, regardless of whether its Rogers or MLSE. If they still want to come to Toronto even without one they must be very interested/desperate to get into this market. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dbailey62 Posted May 12, 2005 Share Posted May 12, 2005 quote:Originally posted by leekoo what's separating rogers from the MLS .. $10M or so ... rogers has the stadium; MLSE doesn't ... But do they have an interest? We need Steve Buffery to do some digging. Well, if Rogers gets into MLS, I'll forgive them for laying me off. db Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dbailey62 Posted May 12, 2005 Share Posted May 12, 2005 quote:Originally posted by Gian-Luca That didn't answer my question on whether it was speculation, but after the news today I'm not getting my hopes up on mysterious non-answers. I had thought MLS wanted SSS for their expansion teams, however, regardless of whether its Rogers or MLSE. If they still want to come to Toronto even without one they must be very interested/desperate to get into this market. SSS is a major issue. If that's what MLS wants, we've zero hope but, as you say, if they are desparate to get into the market, they'll overlook it, for awhile anyway. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Joe Concacaf Posted May 12, 2005 Share Posted May 12, 2005 well i can't say i'm surprised at all of this. this is canada, after all, don't get your hopes up. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FC Beast Posted May 12, 2005 Share Posted May 12, 2005 quote:Originally posted by Gian-Luca When Rogers tookover the Jays, they said they would be interested in bringing MLS to Toronto. But lets hope rogers doesn't get in the soccer business, cause they way he runs the Lose Jays it won't be a success. Are you just speculating the Rogers might interested in MLS, or do you have some inside info here that they are? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DJT Posted May 12, 2005 Share Posted May 12, 2005 quote:Originally posted by Daniel I think it might be even more embarrassing if Montreal builds an entire complex for $15m and Toronto builds nothing with $35m. Because Toronto's primary goal was to build a stadium suitable for the CFL (ie. that appears better than SkyDome). Montreal's goal is to build a stadium suitable for USL D1. quote:Originally posted by RealGooner The Toronto Lynx are also losers in this development, as they dont have a new stadium facility to play in now either. I think if U of T get their new Varsity (plan is 5,000 seats, artificial surface) then it might be ideal for the Lynx. However, as it is to be student-oriented, I don't know if they'll be renting it out; and even if they were to do so, the fees might be high, as they were with the old stadium. quote:Originally posted by dbailey62 As the new stadium was going to have FieldTurf and as the Skydome now has FieldTurf, I doubt we'd see natural grass installed for the one or two dates that the dome might host. But that doesn't mean that SkyDome's surface is FIFA-approved. In fact, it isn't, until FIFA tests it. Given that MLB's and CFL's requirements are likely not as stringent as FIFA's, I'm not sure if the current surface would pass FIFA's tests (with temporary patches covering the infield, I doubt it). Would Rogers allow the necessary upgrades? That being said, I think SkyDome is the only option if there are going to be any U20 matches in Toronto. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moosehead Posted May 12, 2005 Share Posted May 12, 2005 Pipe should do the honourable thing and resign. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Elias Posted May 12, 2005 Share Posted May 12, 2005 Wow, I thought I was desperate. You guys actually want to come to Hamilton. As for Ivor Wynne, the city installed new turf last year. I doubt they will be installing a new one anytime soon. So unless uncle Bob pays for it... But then we can just blame the Ticats, Young, Red Had, Carolina....I couldn't resist. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dbailey62 Posted May 12, 2005 Share Posted May 12, 2005 quote:Originally posted by DJT Because Toronto's primary goal was to build a stadium suitable for the CFL (ie. that appears better than SkyDome). Montreal's goal is to build a stadium suitable for USL D1. I think if U of T get their new Varsity (plan is 5,000 seats, artificial surface) then it might be ideal for the Lynx. However, as it is to be student-oriented, I don't know if they'll be renting it out; and even if they were to do so, the fees might be high, as they were with the old stadium. But that doesn't mean that SkyDome's surface is FIFA-approved. In fact, it isn't, until FIFA tests it. Given that MLB's and CFL's requirements are likely not as stringent as FIFA's, I'm not sure if the current surface would pass FIFA's tests (with temporary patches covering the infield, I doubt it). Would Rogers allow the necessary upgrades? That being said, I think SkyDome is the only option if there are going to be any U20 matches in Toronto. I don't see it as a problem. FieldTurf is the surface and FieldTurf is one of FIFA's approved surfaces. It's not like the awful Astroturf inserts that used to exist at the stadium. Those were scary. I got to play on it once and it was a joke. If Skydome is not a chosen venue, it won't be because of the field. db Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bxl Boy Posted May 13, 2005 Share Posted May 13, 2005 I think it's time for Toronto people involved in soccer to use their mind and completely rethink the soccer vision there... Maybe it would be better to progress step by step and to be smart To go from a bottom table D1 team that plays in nowhere and has below average gestion to whats now better in Canada : top D1 team, with good gestion in a better place to play Before wanting to go further than the Impact and the Whitecaps, begin to try to do as good as them... So, now, for soccer in Toronto : - Find a place to have a soccer specific stadium, accessible to people - Build that, with the requirements for 2007 - Let the Lynx play there and also all GTA soccer events (provincial cup finals, university finals, etc.), and of course the national team - Else, you'll lost your $35M and Federal and Ontarian government won't never invest in soccer again before next century It's not "Quebec chauvinism" I'm doing there but : follow the example from Saputo ! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
leekoo Posted May 13, 2005 Share Posted May 13, 2005 quote:Originally posted by FC Beast When Rogers tookover the Jays, they said they would be interested in bringing MLS to Toronto. But lets hope rogers doesn't get in the soccer business, cause they way he runs the Lose Jays it won't be a success. Are you just speculating the Rogers might interested in MLS, or do you have some inside info here that they are? things changed when rogers went out and bought the dome for peanuts ($25M) ... playing in a tough divison the jays look like they have some possibilities ... yet every toronto sports fan knows the big wet dream is the NFL ... in lieu of that rogers might want to take a go at grabbing another major league franchise (MLS) ... it's all entertainment, ain't it ... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dbailey62 Posted May 13, 2005 Share Posted May 13, 2005 quote:Originally posted by leekoo things changed when rogers went out and bought the dome for peanuts ($25M) ... playing in a tough divison the jays look like they have some possibilities ... yet every toronto sports fan knows the big wet dream is the NFL ... in lieu of that rogers might want to take a go at grabbing another major league franchise (MLS) ... it's all entertainment, ain't it ... More of a wet fantasy. NFL in Skydome is not acceptable to NFL. 54k is not big enough. Ya, you can cram extra seats in at the north end and on the field but that makes for a lot crap seating. While you make a great deal of sense, I don't think that support of USL D1 will ever happen. Torontonians just don't go for it. db Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
renatinho Posted May 13, 2005 Share Posted May 13, 2005 quote:But that doesn't mean that SkyDome's surface is FIFA-approved. In fact, it isn't, until FIFA tests it. Given that MLB's and CFL's requirements are likely not as stringent as FIFA's, I'm not sure if the current surface would pass FIFA's tests (with temporary patches covering the infield, I doubt it). Would Rogers allow the necessary upgrades? That being said, I think SkyDome is the only option if there are going to be any U20 matches in Toronto. I think the Argos and Jays each own their own fieldturf. The Argos version should might be decent enough to be FIFA approved. The larger problem with Skydome is Rogers itself. Telus is a gold level sponsor and would no doubt balk at the thought of Canada playing under Rogers logos. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Winnipeg Fury Posted May 13, 2005 Share Posted May 13, 2005 York stadium deal dead FIFA vice president Jack Warner said last week the tournament will go ahead in Canada whether or not there is a new stadium in Toronto. TORONTO (CP) -- The York University stadium project was officially pronounced dead Thursday, leaving Canadian Soccer Association officials without a Toronto home for the 2007 World Youth Championship. The news means Edmonton will play a substantially expanded role, including hosting the final, of the 24-country men's under-20 tournament. And Montreal can also expect more matches at its planned $15-million Saputo Stadium. The Canadian Soccer Association has also reopened talks with Sherbrooke, Que., about playing a hosting role. Sherbrooke had expressed interest but joined other Quebec cities in throwing its support to Montreal. Later Thursday, the Hamilton Tiger-Cats issued a statement saying Hamilton was interested in picking up the slack. Ironically the only Toronto option left for the CSA is the Rogers Centre, which started the domino effect that eventually toppled the York project when the Toronto Argonauts decided to stay put at the former SkyDome. FIFA vice-president Jack Warner said last week the under-20 tournament will go ahead in Canada no matter what happened with the Toronto stadium. But Thursday's development puts Toronto's chances of ever getting a new stadium in jeopardy given that $35 million in government money secured for the now-scuppered York project wasn't enough to get the job done. "It's a bleak scenario," agreed Andy Sharpe, president of the Canadian Soccer Association. And one that once again says little for soccer's place on sports' pecking order in this country. CSA chief operating officer Kevan Pipe, who spent at least 2{ years on this project, also takes a knock to his credibility. He was insistent as recently as last week that the Toronto stadium would be built and was left seething inside at the stadium collapse. York University said changes in the planned stadium design necessitated by cash shortage caused by the Argos' decision to withdraw meant the stadium project had run out of time. "Looking at the time we have available and where we find ourselves on the project, we just don't feel we can meet that 2007 deadline," said university vice-president Gary Brewer. "Essentially where we are now is almost where we were last October. So several months worth of work is largely out the window and we're literally back to the point where we don't have a design, we don't have a detailed costing. We don't even have an architect at this point. And we're now two years away from having to be open." The university said it was also facing some significant roadwork and a building demolition on campus just to prepare the site -- work that needed to happen early next month. "And once we start that work, literally within two to three weeks, we would have been on the hook for about $5 million." In a statement, the university also said it would have had to assume all the risks and operating costs of the stadium "with significantly reduced usage by outside parties." The stadium was originally pegged at 25,000 seats at a cost of $70 million, with $27 million from the federal government, $8 million from the provincial government and $20 million from the Argos, who also agreed to cover any cost overruns. The university was to donate the land and $15 million. "We regret the proposed stadium will not go ahead," the Argonauts said in a statement. "But we respect that York University has to fulfil its obligations just as we must fulfil ours to our fans." The CSA had no significant investment other than a $400,000 US grant from FIFA, but the organization did unlock the government coffers by winning the right to host the world tournament. An earlier attempt to put the proposed stadium downtown, on the site of the former Varsity Stadium, was nixed by the University of Toronto. The York stadium, along with Edmonton's Commonwealth Stadium, was to have been one of the major homes for the tournament. The 24-team competition had been slated to take place in Toronto, Edmonton, Ottawa, Montreal, Vancouver and Victoria. Pipe said progress had been made on a scaled-down 20,000-seat stadium plan at a cost of $54 million following the Argos' withdrawal. That is off the table now. York will go ahead with a small stadium of 5,000 to 7,000 seats. Its existing venue needs to move because of a proposed subway stop. The Rogers Centre is "theoretically" an option now that it has a FieldTurf surface. Pipe said there has been contact already. Losing a stadium in Toronto wouldn't blemish Canada's hosting the championship, said Bob Lenarduzzi, vice-chairman of the committee behind the Vancouver host bid. "It's disappointing, it's unfortunate that this has taken place but it won't impact the tournament," said Lenarduzzi, who is also director of soccer operations for the Vancouver Whitecaps FC. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dbailey62 Posted May 13, 2005 Share Posted May 13, 2005 quote:Originally posted by renatinho I think the Argos and Jays each own their own fieldturf. The Argos version should might be decent enough to be FIFA approved. The larger problem with Skydome is Rogers itself. Telus is a gold level sponsor and would no doubt balk at the thought of Canada playing under Rogers logos. The Argos had a different brand of turf but this year they have been invited by Rogers to use the Jays' Field Turf. Smart move as it speeds up the stadium conversion but there is the issue of line painting. As we have seen in teh past, remove of painted lines on field turf has been a problem. As for Rogers vs. Telus, the CFL was able to iron out the difficulties of McGill's "Pericival Molson Stadium" being part of Labatt's sponsored telecasts. db Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
leekoo Posted May 13, 2005 Share Posted May 13, 2005 quote:Originally posted by dbailey62 While you make a great deal of sense, I don't think that support of USL D1 will ever happen. Torontonians just don't go for it. db for sure not USL D1 , MLS maybe ... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Ed Posted May 13, 2005 Share Posted May 13, 2005 We need a bit torrent of Mr Pipe's "no Plan B". Should be the lead-in on Soccer Central's Canadian Corner for the next 2 years. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
leekoo Posted May 13, 2005 Share Posted May 13, 2005 quote:Originally posted by Ed We need a bit torrent of Mr Pipe's "no Plan B". Should be the lead-in on Soccer Central's Canadian Corner for the next 2 years. is not the CSA AGM underway ... wonder what's going on ... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dbailey62 Posted May 13, 2005 Share Posted May 13, 2005 quote:Originally posted by leekoo for sure not USL D1 , MLS maybe ... Definitely maybe. db Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Daniel Posted May 13, 2005 Share Posted May 13, 2005 The Fieldturf at the Dome is a tray system. Both teams have their own sets of trays. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nedved9 Posted May 13, 2005 Share Posted May 13, 2005 Only in Toronto does politics, and shere stupidity gets in the way of something. this is the same city that cannot figure out how to fix the waterfront over there. So this stadium collapse doesnt surprise me. You really cannot blame the C.S.A. ONLY. I think it is a little a bit of everyone. I will be honest with you if this was any other city like, Calgary, Edmonton, Winnipeg, and Montreal. I think the ground will have dug up by now. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Daniel Posted May 13, 2005 Share Posted May 13, 2005 Thank God they weren't chosen to host the Olympics... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FC Beast Posted May 13, 2005 Share Posted May 13, 2005 quote:Originally posted by Bxl Boy I think it's time for Toronto people involved in soccer to use their mind and completely rethink the soccer vision there... Maybe it would be better to progress step by step and to be smart To go from a bottom table D1 team that plays in nowhere and has below average gestion to whats now better in Canada : top D1 team, with good gestion in a better place to play Before wanting to go further than the Impact and the Whitecaps, begin to try to do as good as them... So, now, for soccer in Toronto : - Find a place to have a soccer specific stadium, accessible to people - Build that, with the requirements for 2007 - Let the Lynx play there and also all GTA soccer events (provincial cup finals, university finals, etc.), and of course the national team - Else, you'll lost your $35M and Federal and Ontarian government won't never invest in soccer again before next century It's not "Quebec chauvinism" I'm doing there but : follow the example from Saputo ! Find a Place- they have Exhibition Place, that is very accessible to the general public. The Lynx - forget them, they don't exsist for 99% of the soccer supporters in Ontario. And i doubt moving to a new stadium would help their cause, they offended many fans with their antic up to now. Yes it would be good to have more national team games here in Ontario, the team will lose what little support they do have if they don't play a meaningful game here soon. The Money - It;s gone the government support gone, it's start from square one for the CSA, with luck without Pipe & Sharp: Rogers - As much as i would love to have an MLS in Toronto, if Rogers had anything to do with the team, after whats happened, i don't think i would support the team. I justhope and pray the Jays continue to lose the amount of money they have been and go the way of the Epos, right out of Canada, that would be a bit of Justice, and the Argo's could go belly up as well. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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