York Stadium Argos OFFICIALLY pull out

[Robert]

quote:Originally posted by Richard

I've only been participating in this forum for a month or so and already I am fed up with all the backbiting and negativity. If this place is representative of the most dedicated Canadian soccer supporters no wonder half of Canada and the rest of the world regards Canadian soccer as a joke.

If you are fed up, then you can at least relate to what it feels like for others who are also fed up, albeit that we are fed up over different issues. Referring to us being fed up as a joke, just because your perspective differs is disrespectful and only creates conflict. You are not obliged to agree with everything that is said, but blaming us for half of Canada and the rest of the world viewing Canadian soccer as a joke reflects your frustration and how you respond when subjected to frustration. There are reasons for our frustrations and it is not up to you to validate or dismiss them. Questioning our dedication to Canadian soccer is a joke. We who are fed up with how the affairs of Canadian soccer are being managed are trying to lobby for a change. It is our democratic right to do so. We are not fabricating a senario of yelling fire in a theater that has none. We are just like the many Canadians who are frustrated over how the Canadian government has managed the sponsorship deals. These people are not responsible for the world viewing Canada as a joke. They see a problem and want to have it addressed. Not allowing these people to express that they are fed up would not be democratic. Right now, where the similarities lie between the national politics and the national soccer politics is that they are both in the process of measuring the numbers of how many support those in power with how many have a lack of confidence of those in charge. The difference is, that the affairs of the country have a process in place if the opposition numbers warrant such action. The staging of a democratic election to determine if there should be a changing of the gaurd. Our greatest frustration lies in the fact that the CSA does not honour such a system. Politically the CSA is a dictatorship. The structure needs to be destructed and restructured. The board of directors are what I consider a joke. They are not business leaders accountable to shareholders or even the Canadian soccer community for that matter, for this community really has no voice in who or how soccer is managed in Canada. The CSA is an exclusive circle which over time has without opposition assumed control over the affairs of soccer in this country. Now that it has become apparent that many are fed up with how they manage, the question really is who is making Canadian soccer look like a joke? Those in charge of soccer, Kevan Pipe & the CSA, or those who oppose Kevan Pipe and the CSA?

[Gordon]

quote:Originally posted by Robert

What do you mean a good job. Thus far they have failed and they have nothing laying around in money or it should have been disclosed and allocated to their goal.

Basically Robert, I would expect that the CSA would try to turn the awarding of the U-20 World Cup into leverage for some kind of legacy or this country. I would be highly critical of the CSA if they followed your plan, and we ended up without any permanent lasting improvements in facilities for this country. Wow, temporary seating in Vancouver and Victoria...not much of a legacy.

Second, everyone and his dog knows we need some more reasonable venues for soccer in the country. Particularly in eastern Canada. Toronto make sense, to a small degree, but as I've argued before, Montreal made more sense to me. If any of you had bothered to say - why not Saputo in Montreal? Then you'd have some agreement from me that that might have been a better track to take.

In terms of doing this deal, too many of you seem to have stars in your eyes and think there are a world of suitors out there just waiting to build a stadium, and that the CSA has ignored or alienated them. If you are going to build a stadium in Toronto and you don't have any money to bring to the plate, what are your options? 2 really: Get government funding (done, $35 millions) and find partners. Who are they going to be though: obviously, people with a vested interest in building a stadium. Right now, that consists of York, the U of T and the Argos. And nobody else. Leafs? play on ice. Raptors? Indoors and hardwood. Rock? same. Blue Jays? Got a stadium. So you find your partners and try to put together a deal. And if those partners bail on you, then the project fails. Who would reasonably have thought that Rogers would come up wth a free rent deal for the Argos? Who in the CSA shuold have realized that the liberals were corrupt and that this might bring down the governement? Did you know that 6 months ago.

No, the options are limited. The CSA could either go to the dance and try to get laid, to use Cheeta's analogy - and they still might BTW - or simply stayed home and not even tried. And Cheeta, I never blame a guy for trying to get laid, even if he fails. I've asked before. What other avenues were open to the CSA? And what is lost if the worst comes about and York decides that they want to ignore the money on the table from the feds and province? Absolutely nothing.

I've put together a few deals in my time. Some have worked out and we all made a little money. And some, despite my best efforts never took off. It happens. It happens because whenever you "need" partners, there are elements you can not control at the table and sometimes they decide that their interests are better served elsewhere. And that is out of your control. But I'll take a guy out there trying to put together deals over someone who is afraid of failing and sits at home wishing that the pretty girl would call him up.

I have my problems with the CSA overall. I think they leave a lot to be desired in a lot of areas. But I don't see this effort as one of them, and if they were adventerous like this in most of their efforts, we might actually see more positive results. You see, we choose not to fund or support socccer in this country. That leaves them as an organization with a huge mandate and few resources. That means that they have to find creative ways of getting things done. Typically they don't do that. I find it amazing that they are being criticized for trying to put together something under difficult circumstances - and actually showing some progress - and getting lambasted for that effort.

[redhat]

Maybe it's time to put this thread to bed. Everyone is entitled

to their opinions, rightly or wrongly. Not everyone will be

100% satisfied with the CSA, its leadership, the state of soccer

in Canada, or the facilities involved.

And like G-L and a few others, I'm not impressed with the CSA's

results, but I don't really know if I personally can do any better.

And just like Cheeta says, it's like the CSA took a date to a dance

and came home by themselves. It just happens sometimes.

[Robert]

quote:Originally posted by Gordon

Basically Robert, I would expect that the CSA would try to turn the awarding of the U-20 World Cup into leverage for some kind of legacy or this country. I would be highly critical of the CSA if they followed your plan, and we ended up without any permanent lasting improvements in facilities for this country. Wow, temporary seating in Vancouver and Victoria...not much of a legacy.

Second, everyone and his dog knows we need some more reasonable venues for soccer in the country. Particularly in eastern Canada. Toronto make sense, to a small degree, but as I've argued before, Montreal made more sense to me. If any of you had bothered to say - why not Saputo in Montreal? Then you'd have some agreement from me that that might have been a better track to take.

In terms of doing this deal, too many of you seem to have stars in your eyes and think there are a world of suitors out there just waiting to build a stadium, and that the CSA has ignored or alienated them. If you are going to build a stadium in Toronto and you don't have any money to bring to the plate, what are your options? 2 really: Get government funding (done, $35 millions) and find partners. Who are they going to be though: obviously, people with a vested interest in building a stadium. Right now, that consists of York, the U of T and the Argos. And nobody else. Leafs? play on ice. Raptors? Indoors and hardwood. Rock? same. Blue Jays? Got a stadium. So you find your partners and try to put together a deal. And if those partners bail on you, then the project fails. Who would reasonably have thought that Rogers would come up wth a free rent deal for the Argos? Who in the CSA shuold have realized that the liberals were corrupt and that this might bring down the governement? Did you know that 6 months ago.

No, the options are limited. The CSA could either go to the dance and try to get laid, to use Cheeta's analogy - and they still might BTW - or simply stayed home and not even tried. And Cheeta, I never blame a guy for trying to get laid, even if he fails. I've asked before. What other avenues were open to the CSA? And what is lost if the worst comes about and York decides that they want to ignore the money on the table from the feds and province? Absolutely nothing.

I've put together a few deals in my time. Some have worked out and we all made a little money. And some, despite my best efforts never took off. It happens. It happens because whenever you "need" partners, there are elements you can not control at the table and sometimes they decide that their interests are better served elsewhere. And that is out of your control. But I'll take a guy out there trying to put together deals over someone who is afraid of failing and sits at home wishing that the pretty girl would call him up.

I have my problems with the CSA overall. I think they leave a lot to be desired in a lot of areas. But I don't see this effort as one of them, and if they were adventerous like this in most of their efforts, we might actually see more positive results. You see, we choose not to fund or support socccer in this country. That leaves them as an organization with a huge mandate and few resources. That means that they have to find creative ways of getting things done. Typically they don't do that. I find it amazing that they are being criticized for trying to put together something under difficult circumstances - and actually showing some progress - and getting lambasted for that effort.

At the end of the day, the old adage of it takes money to make money rings truer than ever. The CSA was unable to bring any concrete (no pun intended) leverage to the bargaining table. The legacy this world championship leaves behind does not per se have to come in terms of concrete stadiums. Expecting something for nothing is really having stars in one's eyes. If the CSA intended to seek out investments for building a stadium they should have hired a CFO insteaded of going at it with a COO. You can't win a World Cup by playing a striker in goal. A good CFO has money of his own to invest, and he has connections with investors where he regularly obtains his capital from. Money knows money. Kevan Pipe has neither of these assets to offer. He truly is Canadian soccer's great pretender. Is he a nice man? I don't know. Some on this board seem inclined to think so. Am I relentless in expressing my opinios regarding the failures of this man? Most definately. After twenty years in charge, what has Kevan Pipe left behind for Canadian soccer? What is Kevan Pipe's legacy? To use your analogy, he was a guy who tried to get laid, but still ended-up a virgin. Why would you be highly critical if the CSA had followed my plan, of doing the best one can within one's means? Why has the CSA tried to fool FIFA, who will wind up wearing more egg on their face than the CSA has, by leading them to believe that Canada is capable of hosting the second largest FIFA world championship in a manner that the CSA can not deliver. To use Richards quote, that is the only reason half of Canada and the rest of the world would view Canadian soccer as a joke. The joke's on Kevan and unfortunately the rest of us will have to sport the long-lasting black eye because of it.

[Gordon]

quote:Originally posted by Robert

At the end of the day, the old adage of it takes money to make money rings truer than ever. The CSA was unable to bring any concrete (no pun intended) leverage to the bargaining table. The legacy this world championship leaves behind does not per se have to come in terms of concrete stadiums. Expecting something for nothing is really having stars in one's eyes. If the CSA intended to seek out investments for building a stadium they should have hired a CFO insteaded of going at it with a COO. You can't win a World Cup by playing a striker in goal. A good CFO has money of his own to invest, and he has connections with investors where he regularly obtains his capital from. Money knows money. Kevan Pipe has neither of these assets to offer. He truly is Canadian soccer's great pretender. Is he a nice man? I don't know. Some on this board seem inclined to think so. Am I relentless in expressing my opinios regarding the failures of this man? Most definately. After twenty years in charge, what has Kevan Pipe left behind for Canadian soccer? What is Kevan Pipe's legacy? To use your analogy, he was a guy who tried to get laid, but still ended-up a virgin. Why would you be highly critical if the CSA had followed my plan, of doing the best one can within one's means? Why has the CSA tried to fool FIFA, who will wind up wearing more egg on their face than the CSA has, by leading them to believe that Canada is capable of hosting the second largest FIFA world championship in a manner that the CSA can not deliver. To use Richards quote, that is the only reason half of Canada and the rest of the world would view Canadian soccer as a joke. The joke's on Kevan and unfortunately the rest of us will have to sport the long-lasting black eye because of it.

The question remains Robert: Who in their right mind would invest in this stadium. Until you can answer that you are just raging against the storm. Money knows money? Ha, money knows how to make money, and their ain't none to be had in this venture. Sunshine, the smart money isn't coming anywhere near this venture.

There isn't any black eye to be had here. Its sheer imagination and paranoia. If Toronto isn't involved (and the fat lady isn't singing on this yet either), life, and the U-20, will go on. The final will be sold out in Edmonton, and I will be there.

Its time for me to sign off on this debate. Have at 'er those who still want to argue. If the U-20 gets pulled, feel free to gloat.

[fan]

There is no gloating or anticipation of gloating. First the debacle has already happened and second I love the sport of soccer. Seeing it torn apart and represented in such a pathetic manner is very disheartening.

Several other ventures not run by the CSA have succeeded and other sports without the numbers the CSA have succeeded too.

There are several other business partners for soccer in Canada than the ones the CSA hve been courting but wisely after watching and trying to join with the CSA over the past 20 years or so they have cut off all ties with the CSA.Most amateur players who have any real chance of becoming pro have also wisely cut off all ties with the CSA and gone elsewhere for development and contracts.

This is not a healthy situation and only splits the sport in Canada apart into a weak and fractured group.Its not because there is no one to support the CSA its because the CSA have either burnt so many other potential supporters or behaved in such an incompetent manner business people and players want nothing to do with them.

As I said in my previous post the system is fatally flawed.

[Robert]

quote:Originally posted by Gordon

The question remains Robert: Who in their right mind would invest in this stadium. Until you can answer that you are just raging against the storm. Money knows money? Ha, money knows how to make money, and their ain't none to be had in this venture. Sunshine, the smart money isn't coming anywhere near this venture.

There isn't any black eye to be had here. Its sheer imagination and paranoia. If Toronto isn't involved (and the fat lady isn't singing on this yet either), life, and the U-20, will go on. The final will be sold out in Edmonton, and I will be there.

Its time for me to sign off on this debate. Have at 'er those who still want to argue. If the U-20 gets pulled, feel free to gloat.

Gloating is the last thing on my mind. Based on my posts, how do you get the impression that I am going, "Aha, I won." I feel like a fan whose team has just suffered a severe sh_t-kicking. However, I remain a loyal fan and I am not going to say oh well, K se rah, see you in Edmonton. That's not good enough. We deserve better than to have these kind of blunders continually swept under the carpet and to continue carrying on our merry ways like nothing happened. That is not caring about Canadian soccer. My passion refuses to accept the way Canadian soccer has been treated by the CSA. I respect that you don't share these feelings. I just hope there will be a final game for us to watch in Edmonton, or else...

[FC Beast]

quote:Originally posted by Richard

So everybody had better stay well clear of MLS which has lost hundreds of millions during its existence and which survives only thanks to the philanthropy of a couple of US billionaires. If that's the kind of attitude you espouse you had better whistle goodbye to any hopes you had of a pan-Canadian professional or even amateur league along the lines so often promoted here. The only hope any such league has of existing is on charitable handouts like the MLS.

I suggest also that the CFL draws a larger average gate than does the MLS.

[orange]I gave up a long time ago on another Canadian Soccer League

being formed. It just ain't going to happen. A least the MLS has

respect of soccer fans for what they are trying to do, the CFL can't say the same thing, their teams can't compete on or off the field with

the NFL, World League, or NCAA teams. Im sure the MLS could hold their own with any time worldwide, they may not win, but wouldn't be

outclassed either. The CFL draws a larger gate? Lets see the franchise in Regina has no real competition for the sports dollar,

so it's the only sport the fans get out their.Edmonton/Calgary

had better hold on to their CFL teams cause without doubt they will

lose their NHL teams shortly. Toronto ...the Argo's the city don't

care for them really, we want the NFL in town. Ottawa the Renegades

are on lifesupport and might not last this entire CFL season, thats

nothing new from the nations capital. Montreal draws well only because

they havn't got a hockey team to compete against in the fall.

[Cheeta]

quote:Originally posted by Gordon

I never blame a guy for trying to get laid

And on that, I think we can all finaly agree.

Die topic! Die!

[fan]

When a forum like this one does get a lot of posts and it doesnt support your particular opinion you should be excited that it has developed into an interesting discussion if not at least a well participated one.

One of the problems is when people resort to juvenile name calling as a serious attempt to debate or support a point of view rather than to just express anger or humour or request that people be banned when their point of view differs.

You have to have the strength of character to at least accept points of view that are different from yours even in some cases radically different. You debate the issues and get into some friendly bantor if you dont like the topic you dont request it stop or die thats simply childish and suggests fear at least have the courage to listen to alternative points of view. If not move yourself over to another topic.

If someones point of view is mainly negative or positive then so be it. The topic such as this one about the stadium and the CSA reflects the negativity from the failure of the proposals so far.

If the CSA succeed in a reasonable manner then the attitude and course of this forum will likely change to reflect it if not it will likely remain negative.Positivity and negativity have the equal ability and potential to be good or bad.

The CSA have not yet presented a positive result on this topic and have presented quite a few negative results in the past thus the skepticism, frustration and anger.

[Loud Mouth Soup]

Beast.

Please prove your points with facts. If you can't, then you've proved it's more of the mindless pap you spew on here.

[FC Beast]

quote:Originally posted by Loud Mouth Soup

Beast.

Please prove your points with facts. If you can't, then you've proved it's more of the mindless pap you spew on here.

Prove my point on what subject? A) that a Canadian Soccer league is not coming around again. If you believe otherwise then your just plain nuts. No one is coming forward to start a legue.....fact.

No one is willing to lose large amounts of money in Canadian soccer,

.....fact. The USL can't hope to survive on the mere attendance figures for their matches.....fact. There you go[}]

[Loud Mouth Soup]

Typical. You avoid what is asked of you and go on another rant.

Once again, can someone explain why Beast was allowed back?

[Robert]

quote:Originally posted by fan

When a forum like this one does get a lot of posts and it doesnt support your particular opinion you should be excited that it has developed into an interesting discussion if not at least a well participated one.

One of the problems is when people resort to juvenile name calling as a serious attempt to debate or support a point of view rather than to just express anger or humour or request that people be banned when their point of view differs.

You have to have the strength of character to at least accept points of view that are different from yours even in some cases radically different. You debate the issues and get into some friendly bantor if you dont like the topic you dont request it stop or die thats simply childish and suggests fear at least have the courage to listen to alternative points of view. If not move yourself over to another topic.

If someones point of view is mainly negative or positive then so be it. The topic such as this one about the stadium and the CSA reflects the negativity from the failure of the proposals so far.

If the CSA succeed in a reasonable manner then the attitude and course of this forum will likely change to reflect it if not it will likely remain negative.Positivity and negativity have the equal ability and potential to be good or bad.

The CSA have not yet presented a positive result on this topic and have presented quite a few negative results in the past thus the skepticism, frustration and anger.

A positive result on this issue? They couldn't even come up with a positive result on designing a new logo for themselves. Their April fourth deadline has long sinse passed and it appears that all their partners pulled out of this venture too. The CSA was unable or unwilling to offer any consideration in return. Once again, the unfortunate CSA was unable to get something for nothing and were let down by others for God only knows the how manyth time? How could they have foreseen that people would be so unfair to them? But that's okay, because I liked their plan B on this issue. The old logo's great as is.

[Richard]

quote:Originally posted by Robert

They couldn't even come up with a positive result on designing a new logo for themselves. ..... But that's okay, because I liked their plan B on this issue. The old logo's great as is.

That seemed to have been the general consensus on this board too. Has it occurred to you that perhaps the reason they did not receive an overwhelming response with a plethora of new designs (if that is the case and we don't know do we?) is because that's exactly the way most people felt?

[Robert]

quote:Originally posted by Richard

That seemed to have been the general consensus on this board too. Has it occurred to you that perhaps the reason they did not receive an overwhelming response with a plethora of new designs (if that is the case and we don't know do we?) is because that's exactly the way most people felt?

At last. A consensus on this board regarding the CSA.

[Gordon]

quote:Originally posted by Robert

At last. A consensus on this board regarding the CSA.

At last? Robert there is consensus on this board that the CSA did a poor job in the preparation for Men's World Cup qualifying; Women's Olympic qualifying; that it tends to be largely an old boys network; and that there has been a strong bias towards the British experience to the detriment of soccer in Canada. And I am pretty sure that most would agree that the the CSA is in need of a shake up, myself included.

Given the tone that many of our threads take, this is an important point. Nobody that I can recall gives blanket across the board support to the CSA. Many of us just don't happen to believe that everything they do is wrong or misguided.

[Richard]

Gordon, there is a tendency with some posters here to make wild, sweeping statements particularly where the CSA is concerned. I quickly learned not to take these people very seriously.

[FC Beast]

quote:Originally posted by Gordon

At last? Robert there is consensus on this board that the CSA did a poor job in the preparation for Men's World Cup qualifying; Women's Olympic qualifying; that it tends to be largely an old boys network; and that there has been a strong bias towards the British experience to the detriment of soccer in Canada. And I am pretty sure that most would agree that the the CSA is in need of a shake up, myself included.

Given the tone that many of our threads take, this is an important point. Nobody that I can recall gives blanket across the board support to the CSA. Many of us just don't happen to believe that everything they do is wrong or misguided.

The CSA has to decide whats most important for Canadian soccer longterm. 1) getting to the world cup 2) getting a national league

up and going 3) a MLS franchise/stadium in Toronto. The CSA can't

handle all threee at once so they must decide soon which is most

important for the survival of soccer in Canada. IMHO getting the

MLS into Toronto and the stadium built should be their number one

priority. Getting to the World Cup won't do the sport much better

then it did in 1986. So start from the ground up, if a canadian

league of at least 8 teams is not possible and it isn't, then the

MLS has got to come to Canada for Canadian players to continue playing

at home. Before the USL fans get upset for being ignored, the USL is

not a great brand of soccer, and can't provide the national team with

players.

[dbailey62]

quote:Originally posted by FC Beast

The CSA has to decide whats most important for Canadian soccer longterm. 1) getting to the world cup 2) getting a national league

up and going 3) a MLS franchise/stadium in Toronto. The CSA can't

handle all threee at once so they must decide soon which is most

important for the survival of soccer in Canada. IMHO getting the

MLS into Toronto and the stadium built should be their number one

priority. Getting to the World Cup won't do the sport much better

then it did in 1986. So start from the ground up, if a canadian

league of at least 8 teams is not possible and it isn't, then the

MLS has got to come to Canada for Canadian players to continue playing

at home. Before the USL fans get upset for being ignored, the USL is

not a great brand of soccer, and can't provide the national team with

players.

I think you're pretty much bang on as it is only the improvement of the player's home opportunities that will lead to further development of their skills and future jobs overseas as well, of course, as the national team. MLS is the most obvious and immediate way to go in that regard.

As for the USL, those players from the USL on our national team now and in the past have been there as stop gaps.

I will disagree in one area as the 86 WC did launch the CSL and it did do a reasonably good job of developing players like Peschisolido, DeVos and Onstad.

db

[Robert]

quote:Originally posted by FC Beast

The CSA has to decide whats most important for Canadian soccer longterm. 1) getting to the world cup 2) getting a national league

up and going 3) a MLS franchise/stadium in Toronto. The CSA can't

handle all threee at once so they must decide soon which is most

important for the survival of soccer in Canada. IMHO getting the

MLS into Toronto and the stadium built should be their number one

priority. Getting to the World Cup won't do the sport much better

then it did in 1986. So start from the ground up, if a canadian

league of at least 8 teams is not possible and it isn't, then the

MLS has got to come to Canada for Canadian players to continue playing

at home. Before the USL fans get upset for being ignored, the USL is

not a great brand of soccer, and can't provide the national team with

players.

I'll agree, but only because it's the easiest (not the best) to accomplish out of the three. Instead of Toronto though, I think that Canada and the CSA should get behind Montreal for a MLS franchise. The Saputo family have shown the best commitment to date, and if the CSA could bring the government money together with the Saputo money, an MLS standard sized stadium might be a realistic possibility. The Impact are also the most successful club in Canada right now, both in accomplishments on the field and attendance wise at the gate. In addition to that, I am guessing that the Impact have recently supplied the Men's National Team with more young players than the Lynx or Whitecaps have. No disrespect to Toronto, but out of the three major soccer markets in Canada right now, I would place them third. Attendance figures as well as performce on the field confirm that choice. Vancouver as things stand right now would have to be Canada's second choice for an MLS franchise. With commited ownership equal to that of the Impact, the Whitecaps are still IMO second best on the field when it comes to the Impact (I pray they prove me wrong though). Attendances in Vancouver remain under a 5,000 per game average over the course of a season, and that would need to be improved upon before the MLS could be considered. Toronto IMO is a long ways off from proving it belongs in the MLS. Soccer support in Toronto sucks. Yes it would improve for the higher standard of soccer played in the MLS, but that would also hold true for Montreal and Vancouver.

[Robert]

quote:Originally posted by FC Beast

The CSA has to decide whats most important for Canadian soccer longterm. 1) getting to the world cup 2) getting a national league

up and going 3) a MLS franchise/stadium in Toronto. The CSA can't

handle all threee at once so they must decide soon which is most

important for the survival of soccer in Canada. IMHO getting the

MLS into Toronto and the stadium built should be their number one

priority. Getting to the World Cup won't do the sport much better

then it did in 1986. So start from the ground up, if a canadian

league of at least 8 teams is not possible and it isn't, then the

MLS has got to come to Canada for Canadian players to continue playing

at home. Before the USL fans get upset for being ignored, the USL is

not a great brand of soccer, and can't provide the national team with

players.

I'll agree, but only because it's the easiest (not the best) to accomplish out of the three. Instead of Toronto though, I think that Canada and the CSA should get behind Montreal for a MLS franchise. The Saputo family have shown the best commitment to date, and if the CSA could bring the government money together with the Saputo money, an MLS standard sized stadium might be a realistic possibility. The Impact are also the most successful club in Canada right now, both in accomplishments on the field and attendance wise at the gate. In addition to that, I am guessing that the Impact have recently supplied the Men's National Team with more young players than the Lynx or Whitecaps have. No disrespect to Toronto, but out of the three major soccer markets in Canada right now, I would place them third. Attendance figures as well as performce on the field confirm that choice. Vancouver as things stand right now would have to be Canada's second choice for an MLS franchise. With commited ownership equal to that of the Impact, the Whitecaps are still IMO second best on the field when it comes to the Impact (I pray they prove me wrong though). Attendances in Vancouver remain under a 5,000 per game average over the course of a season, and that would need to be improved upon before the MLS could be considered. Toronto IMO is a long ways off from proving it belongs in the MLS. Soccer support in Toronto sucks. Yes it would improve for the higher standard of soccer played in the MLS, but that would also hold true for Montreal and Vancouver.

[FC Beast]

quote:Originally posted by dbailey62

I think you're pretty much bang on as it is only the improvement of the player's home opportunities that will lead to further development of their skills and future jobs overseas as well, of course, as the national team. MLS is the most obvious and immediate way to go in that regard.

As for the USL, those players from the USL on our national team now and in the past have been there as stop gaps.

I will disagree in one area as the 86 WC did launch the CSL and it did do a reasonably good job of developing players like Peschisolido, DeVos and Onstad.

db

The 86' WC did bring about the CSL which was a good standard league,

betterthen the USL IMHO. But when one franchise got in trouble the whole league came down. If a Canadian league ever gets going again,

there must be NO questionable cities try for clubs. London,Kitchener

Victoria, and Ottawa we're terrible for the CSL.

[FC Beast]

quote:Originally posted by dbailey62

I think you're pretty much bang on as it is only the improvement of the player's home opportunities that will lead to further development of their skills and future jobs overseas as well, of course, as the national team. MLS is the most obvious and immediate way to go in that regard.

As for the USL, those players from the USL on our national team now and in the past have been there as stop gaps.

I will disagree in one area as the 86 WC did launch the CSL and it did do a reasonably good job of developing players like Peschisolido, DeVos and Onstad.

db

The 86' WC did bring about the CSL which was a good standard league,

betterthen the USL IMHO. But when one franchise got in trouble the whole league came down. If a Canadian league ever gets going again,

there must be NO questionable cities try for clubs. London,Kitchener

Victoria, and Ottawa we're terrible for the CSL.

[FC Beast]

quote:Originally posted by Robert

I'll agree, but only because it's the easiest (not the best) to accomplish out of the three. Instead of Toronto though, I think that Canada and the CSA should get behind Montreal for a MLS franchise. The Saputo family have shown the best commitment to date, and if the CSA could bring the government money together with the Saputo money, an MLS standard sized stadium might be a realistic possibility. The Impact are also the most successful club in Canada right now, both in accomplishments on the field and attendance wise at the gate. In addition to that, I am guessing that the Impact have recently supplied the Men's National Team with more young players than the Lynx or Whitecaps have. No disrespect to Toronto, but out of the three major soccer markets in Canada right now, I would place them third. Attendance figures as well as performce on the field confirm that choice. Vancouver as things stand right now would have to be Canada's second choice for an MLS franchise. With commited ownership equal to that of the Impact, the Whitecaps are still IMO second best on the field when it comes to the Impact (I pray they prove me wrong though). Attendances in Vancouver remain under a 5,000 per game average over the course of a season, and that would need to be improved upon before the MLS could be considered. Toronto IMO is a long ways off from proving it belongs in the MLS. Soccer support in Toronto sucks. Yes it would improve for the higher standard of soccer played in the MLS, but that would also hold true for Montreal and Vancouver.

Correct me if i am wrong Robert, but didn't the same family who

owns the Impact close it down for a season or two a few seasons,

back due to financial troubles? that would worry the MLS> Yes,

Toronto has not gone out of it's way to support the sport since

the Blizzard in the NASL, but look at the current Toronto team,

the LYNX, it's run mickey mouse style,play in a s**t stadium,

no one can get to without a hassle, and they are not competitive.