teams better than Canada in concacaf

[Gian-Luca]

quote:Originally posted by The Beaver

We would've got creamed like a can of corn!! We're lucky even to be a silly 3rd tier CONCACASS team. Sometimes I wonder if we should even be allowed to have a team. Our U15s probably could do better in WCQ.

That's a pretty good imitation. [)]

[FC Beast]

quote:Originally posted by The Beaver

We would've got creamed like a can of corn!! We're lucky even to be a silly 3rd tier CONCACASS team. Sometimes I wonder if we should even be allowed to have a team. Our U15s probably could do better in WCQ.

The under 15's couldn't do any worse thats for sure unless FY was in charge.[]

[redhat]

I'm sure the squad that we used against Portugal, with

some minor changes, would beat Jamaica, T&T, Panama, Cuba,

and El Salvador. I think Honduras and Guatemala are

beatable, and even Costa Rica can be beaten when conditions

are good (hot GK, low scoring, no Wanchope, good possession).

So what can be derived about that? Well right now I feel USA

and Mexico are pretty much the cream of the crop with Costa Rica

up there as well. But the ball is round and anyone can be beaten

at anytime, IMHO. This IS CONCACAF we're talking about right?

So have any sort of ranking you wish, but in the end if Canada

is to lose, it's because it beat itself by not being prepared

properly.

edited for spelling.

[redhat]

I'm sure the squad that we used against Portugal, with

some minor changes, would beat Jamaica, T&T, Panama, Cuba,

and El Salvador. I think Honduras and Guatemala are

beatable, and even Costa Rica can be beaten when conditions

are good (hot GK, low scoring, no Wanchope, good possession).

So what can be derived about that? Well right now I feel USA

and Mexico are pretty much the cream of the crop with Costa Rica

up there as well. But the ball is round and anyone can be beaten

at anytime, IMHO. This IS CONCACAF we're talking about right?

So have any sort of ranking you wish, but in the end if Canada

is to lose, it's because it beat itself by not being prepared

properly.

edited for spelling.

[The Beaver]

quote:Originally posted by Gian-Luca

Why, who needs to care? Were we discussing something important?

No, it wasn't particulary important, I agree. But you were the one who deemed my groundbreaking 3 tier system "silly," so I'll take some rhetorical issue with it.

(It is clearly a slow day in Canadian soccer when The Beaver and G-L are battling over beer-buying duties.)

[Gordon]

The results say we are no better than 7th or 8th. Until we get the results that confirm what we beleive about the general quality of the team. we have to live with that. Yeah, I didn't leave Vancouver thinking Guatemala was better, and Honduras needed three attrocious calls to get their two draws, but the bottom line is that we are not in the hex for the second time running.

[redhat]

quote:Originally posted by Gordon

but the bottom line is that we are not in the hex for the second time running.

So true Gordon, yet Jamaica, Honduras, and Cuba will not be there

either. Canada will have to start showing up to change people's

minds about rankings. We are ranked lowly because of our lack of

preparation, lack of games, funding , and the resultant poor performances. Here's to doing better in the GC...

[The Beaver]

quote:Originally posted by redhat

So true Gordon, yet Jamaica, Honduras, and Cuba will not be there

either. Canada will have to start showing up to change people's

minds about rankings. We are ranked lowly because of our lack of

preparation, lack of games, funding , and the resultant poor performances. Here's to doing better in the GC...

Yes, one has to wonder if the results of our last failed WCQ attempt were due more to lack of preparation or lack of committment to the team and its program. Clearly, we seem to be making better efforts to prepare our U20 teams these past few years, and one could say the same for our U15s on up. But why did we not see the same preparation for our last WCQ bid? Was it more logistics and timing? Lack of vision or willingness to committ time and resources?

My gut tells me that the CSA is in fact learning from their mistakes, that a greater committment to WCQ is already been made. Still, if we do not see proper preparation next go around, we'll have not advanced our cause one bit.

[FC Beast]

quote:Originally posted by The Beaver

Yes, one has to wonder if the results of our last failed WCQ attempt were due more to lack of preparation or lack of committment to the team and its program. Clearly, we seem to be making better efforts to prepare our U20 teams these past few years, and one could say the same for our U15s on up. But why did we not see the same preparation for our last WCQ bid? Was it more logistics and timing? Lack of vision or willingness to committ time and resources?

My gut tells me that the CSA is in fact learning from their mistakes, that a greater committment to WCQ is already been made. Still, if we do not see proper preparation next go around, we'll have not advanced our cause one bit.

What about lack of committment from the players. It's easy to just blame the CSA, but it was the players who took the field who have to shoulder much of the blame. We were not playing elite sides by any stretch of the mind.

[The Beaver]

quote:Originally posted by FC Beast

What about lack of committment from the players. It's easy to just blame the CSA, but it was the players who took the field who have to shoulder much of the blame. We were not playing elite sides by any stretch of the mind.

No, you are absolutely right. Our players were clearly not committed. In fact, I got the real impression throughout qualifying that Devos could give a cra.p if we even won a single game. And he wasn't the only one. Maybe they were just hoping for a free ride or something. I mean, was this a holiday time?

Nicaragua is gonna kill us. We should hire Beckenbauer and let him coach our U17s in the Gold Cup--I bet FY couldn't do better!!!!

[Gordon]

I don't know that there was a lackof commitment, but I thought we showed as mentally soft from time to time. Particuarly after the Onstad screw up against Costa Rica. Some of that in the first game as well. On the other hand, they dealt with the adversity of the first screw up against Honduras by scoring and forcing a second screw up from the offical. I often wonder what would have happened to the Confidence of the team if that goal had stood.

[The Beaver]

quote:Originally posted by Gordon

I don't know that there was a lackof commitment, but I thought we showed as mentally soft from time to time. Particuarly after the Onstad screw up against Costa Rica. Some of that in the first game as well. On the other hand, they dealt with the adversity of the first screw up against Honduras by scoring and forcing a second screw up from the offical. I often wonder what would have happened to the Confidence of the team if that goal had stood.

Sorry, just so you know, do not take my responses to FC Beast as serious. I think our guys were committed; I just don't think we were adequately prepared. Our lack of confidence was evident in the game versus Costa Rica, yes, but this was towards the end of a messy qualifying campaign where at times nothing was going our way. A good team would have rebounded, but at that time we were virtually out of contention as it was. Not to excuse the let down after the goal, mind you. Just suggesting a very real context.

[Gordon]

quote:Originally posted by The Beaver

[sorry, just so you know, do not take my responses to FC Beast as serious.

That goes without saying Beav.

[FC Beast]

quote:Originally posted by The Beaver

No, you are absolutely right. Our players were clearly not committed. In fact, I got the real impression throughout qualifying that Devos could give a cra.p if we even won a single game. And he wasn't the only one. Maybe they were just hoping for a free ride or something. I mean, was this a holiday time?

Nicaragua is gonna kill us. We should hire Beckenbauer and let him coach our U17s in the Gold Cup--I bet FY couldn't do better!!!!

Now you're beginning to see the light....... Don't worry about

Nicaragua, we will struggle aginst Cuba in the Gold Cup, remember the

last time 2-0 to cuba i believe. Hiring anther German would upset

the players too much, remember the last german manager we had, he brought us success and credibility, now what voyaguer would want that

when we have Yallops Army and the world class football they have been

producing......(just for you to know....thats sarcastic)[]

[Guest Ed]

Whoever graded Panama and Guatemala behind us in the CONCACAF depth chart should really wake up to reality. Times have changed. There was no doubt about it 5 years ago but we would be very lucky to draw Mexico today with our current squad and coach. Panama managed to get a point yesterday though and came through a fairly tough semi final group, knocking off Jamaica in the process. I don't see how you can say we are rated higher than Guatemala when they cleaned our clocks in the only game that mattered between us in the semis.

[elricko]

Unlike most "fringe soccer" countries, Canada's quality of national players has spiralled downwards over the past decade or more. I'm sure Yallop would love to have players like Forrest, Samuel , Miller,and Bunbury just to name 4.Look at Australia's ( not bloody Oz again!) modern players and their skill level has improved so much. We are being left behind, as in most sports.

[RS]

quote:Originally posted by FC Beast

we will struggle aginst Cuba in the Gold Cup, remember the

last time 2-0 to cuba i believe. Hiring anther German would upset

the players too much, remember the last german manager we had, he brought us success and credibility, now what voyaguer would want that

If ever anyone is unsure of the meaning of the word "Contradiction", simply read the quote above for clarification.

[DoyleG]

quote:Originally posted by elricko

Unlike most "fringe soccer" countries, Canada's quality of national players has spiralled downwards over the past decade or more. I'm sure Yallop would love to have players like Forrest, Samuel , Miller,and Bunbury just to name 4.Look at Australia's ( not bloody Oz again!) modern players and their skill level has improved so much. We are being left behind, as in most sports.

The fact that Australians have a domestic league structure is for much of that success. Much of the Socceroos depth come from players who played in the old NSL and/or playing in the new A-League.

[Gordon]

quote:Originally posted by Ed

Whoever graded Panama and Guatemala behind us in the CONCACAF depth chart should really wake up to reality. Times have changed. There was no doubt about it 5 years ago but we would be very lucky to draw Mexico today with our current squad and coach. Panama managed to get a point yesterday though and came through a fairly tough semi final group, knocking off Jamaica in the process. I don't see how you can say we are rated higher than Guatemala when they cleaned our clocks in the only game that mattered between us in the semis.

The difficult part for many is balancing last place in our semi-final group with the belief that we could/should have done better. The results say 7th or worse, but the belief says: "I think this lineup give or take Rad in for one of the two strikers, could have done the job in qualifying." You are absolutely right that it is an arrogance for us to place ourselves in the top 4 or 5 when we simply can't get it done on the field. But properly prepared, with better selection, a lot of us think we could be.

[FC Beast]

quote:Originally posted by Rudi

If ever anyone is unsure of the meaning of the word "Contradiction", simply read the quote above for clarification.

If you are going to qupte me use the entie quote,it wasn't

meant to be serious for the most part.....just sarcasim.[purple]

[The Beaver]

quote:Originally posted by Gordon

That goes without saying Beav.

Sorry--I figured it went without saying, but the Beast hasn't picked up on my rhetorical approach to his posts and I worried others would misunderstand my intent. Of course, the intellectual accuity of the Beast is unprecedented and appears to have no equal on this forum. That much is clear.

[FC Beast]

quote:Originally posted by The Beaver

Sorry--I figured it went without saying, but the Beast hasn't picked up on my rhetorical approach to his posts and I worried others would misunderstand my intent. Of course, the intellectual accuity of the Beast is unprecedented and appears to have no equal on this forum. That much is clear.

With all you posts being rhetoric, it hard to tell the difference.[)]

[canadiansoccerrules]

quote:Originally posted by Gordon

The results say we are no better than 7th or 8th. Until we get the results that confirm what we beleive about the general quality of the team. we have to live with that. Yeah, I didn't leave Vancouver thinking Guatemala was better, and Honduras needed three attrocious calls to get their two draws, but the bottom line is that we are not in the hex for the second time running.

thats seems right if you can trust the ranking system,guatemala was better before,during and after the vancouver match, the were better prepared simple as that. we will improve....fingers crossed.

[Brun06]

Our grassroots system is continuing to improve exponentially. Many people believe the development of Canada soccer must come from the top of the pyramid with a nation wide league and more funding. We can attempt to progress in that manner and hope the bottom of the pyramid (grassroots) catches up. But really, our attempts will not work until Canada is ready and has enough momentum to absorb soccer into its culture. There will always be critism about the lack of soccer development in the country. But, if we take a moment to observe our progress in the grassroots, provincial teams, cpsl, a-league, amateur men's teams, nationals teams, etc, we can surely agree that we've stepped many steps up the development ladder. And despite the occasional setback which is normal in any development curve, our steps continue to be forward. Therefore, it is fair conclude that our success will come in a matter of time. We are perhaps 20-25 years behind the US in development comparison. Do not let our disappointments of our senior team to be the reflection of our development. Even though our senior team has done poorly in the past, the youth continue to grow and have already shown some success.

Once our progress in the bottom levels of the pyramid become stable, we will able to stabilize our ranks through the senior team.

[Free kick]

quote:Originally posted by Gordon

For me, the telling moment of truth or point where all doubts were removed occurred in that match versus CRC in Vancouver. In that match, it was as if the football gods decided to speak to Cnd soccer fans to either make it as clear as possible for us or, they decided to have mercy for all the misfortunes that may have occurred up until that point and set it up to see what we are really made of. The circumstances leading up to the game along with the outcome may have led me to believe that the game was the most significant event in the pas 10 years in in terms of telling us where we stand in Concacaf. Lets review the circumances:

1) Despite no wins in four games, that stars had miraculously alligned themselves in such a way that Canada was still very much alive and in the thick of it in WCQ. All that was needed was a simple win.

2) We were playing at home.

3) We were facing a side who was not necessarily in a do or die situation. But Canada was.

4) We had played by then a sufficiient number of matches that summer to conclude that familiarity and cohesiveness amongst the players would no longer have been an issue. Nor would player fitness have been a problem due to having played earier that week and having returned to camps with their clubs.

5) After much tinkering up until that point, Yallop would have realistically finally figured it out in terms who should belong or not and who should start or not. So you cannot blame coaching selection as we would have earlier in WCQ.

6) the players were playing a home game after an away game earlier that week So the travel fatigue factor would have been much reduced compared to the earlier game.

7)We were playing the perfect kind of side to really test our mettle and gauge where we stand. Not a minnow. Nor the creme de la creme ( ie.: US or Mex) who really stand appart from the rest in concacaf due to their infrastuctures. Basically, a side that we have beat out for one of the 3rd or WCQ fourth spots since they would be realistically considered contenders for those spots.

8)Unlike previous games we finally got the early lead when DeRo scored in the 12th minute.

9) For the first time in all the years I have been following our MNT, the soccer gods decide to make sure the ref would help us. Ok, maybe Andy Sharpe's earlier tirade was yielding fruit. We were getting away with several tackles that would often have brought out cards but we weren't getting whistled for. We were also getting the questionable calls going our way in the offensive 18 meters. The camera shots of of Ticos going ballistic at the players bench in the first half pretty much said it all. We were definitely due for one of these type of officiated matches and we got it.

10) Yes we were missing Stalteri, but everyone else was healthy and we were not otherwise plagued with absences due to suspension. It was as good as you can realistically hope for at that stage of WCQ.

Despite all these circumstances, we STILL lost:(. Furthermore by a fairly decisive 3-1 scoreline. We couldn't hold them off after geting the early lead and/or we couldn't get the decisive goal to put them away. So yes, how can we argue that we belong in the top 4-5. That result mearly served to crystallize what we have seen from the side in the years leading up to WCQ and the matches therafter. Also telling was the fact that our best player (arguably) in that match was a domestically based player. The goal scorer was also domestically based. There is still alot of work to be done and along way to go.