Winnipeg Fury Posted October 27, 2004 Share Posted October 27, 2004 This was already posted on the club forum, but it certainly has national implications with almost half our club teams finished, it leaves little in terms of youth development in this country. Edmonton, Calgary and Syracuse out of A-League soccer circuit for 2005 posted October 27 @ 17:44, EST TAMPA, Fla. (CP) - Canada will be down to three pro soccer teams next year with the news Wednesday that Edmonton and Calgary are out of the A-League picture for 2005. Syracuse will also not be included in the 2005 schedule, said the Tampa-based United Soccer Leagues, which oversees the A-League, W-League and other developmental leagues. "It is very unfortunate to lose these three markets, which we feel have great potential," USL vice-president Tim Holt said in a statement. "We still strongly believe Calgary, Edmonton and Syracuse have a future in USL; however, it was not in the short-term interest of USL and its other member franchises to continue in those markets for 2005." The announcement leaves the champion Montreal Impact, Vancouver Whitecaps and Toronto Lynx as the Canadian entries in the 13-club A-League. The USL was forced to take over the Edmonton Aviators during the 2004 season and closed the franchise at the end of the campaign. The league said while there had been interest in franchise rights to the market, "no group demonstrated the necessary capitalization or proper business plan to justify the awarding of franchise rights for 2005." The Calgary Mustangs failed to recommit for the 2005 season, the league said. "The business structure for our franchises is closely tied to clubs having local rivals as travel partners," said Holt. "I think the difficulties experienced in both Calgary and Edmonton last season compounded one another and, unfortunately, it was not prudent for the Calgary team to operate in 2005 without a club in Edmonton." Syracuse will also discontinue operations for 2005. The league said the Salty Dogs experienced "economic difficulties" in their sophomore season due to their lease arrangements at P&C Stadium, which is home to the minor-league baseball SkyChiefs. Notes: The Toronto Lynx say Duncan Wilde will step aside as head coach next season to focus on his duties as director of the team's academy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
leekoo Posted October 28, 2004 Share Posted October 28, 2004 A-League Canadian Division In The Toilet no wonder Frank Yallop and Andy Sharpe have been talking up MLS so much ... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DJT Posted October 28, 2004 Share Posted October 28, 2004 quote:Originally posted by Winnipeg Fury This was already posted on the club forum, but it certainly has national implications with almost half our club teams finished, it leaves little in terms of youth development in this country. Alright, but let's keep the discussion in this thread directed towards how this affects the MNT. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gian-Luca Posted October 28, 2004 Share Posted October 28, 2004 In the short term it won't affect the national team that much, as not too many players from those teams were being called by Yallop (outside of the B friendlies). Long-term though....well, hopefully something else will have developed for Canadian soccer by then. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vancouver Fan Posted October 28, 2004 Share Posted October 28, 2004 quote:Originally posted by Gian-Luca In the short term it won't affect the national team that much, as not too many players from those teams were being called by Yallop (outside of the B friendlies). Long-term though....well, hopefully something else will have developed for Canadian soccer by then. Unfortunately,I think it will affect us in the short term.The better Calgary and Edmonton players will probably be picked up by other teams(some Canadian)where they will be sharing already scarce playing time with good young Canadian players trying to make it to the next step in their careers. Players like Kevin Harmse and Justin Thompson who I feel have a bright future ahead of them come to mind. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Daniel Posted October 28, 2004 Share Posted October 28, 2004 It will affect the younger players (U20-U23) who could play regularly during the summer at a decent calibre. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gian-Luca Posted October 28, 2004 Share Posted October 28, 2004 quote:Originally posted by Vancouver Fan Unfortunately,I think it will affect us in the short term.The better Calgary and Edmonton players will probably be picked up by other teams(some Canadian)where they will be sharing already scarce playing time with good young Canadian players trying to make it to the next step in their careers. Players like Kevin Harmse and Justin Thompson who I feel have a bright future ahead of them come to mind. Perhaps, but at the same time a lot of A-league players on the three remaining teams have been signing in Europe, such as the group heading off to Scandinavia, or players like Serioux, and now possibly Grande. There are a lot of spots open to fill, particularly on the Lynx. I don't think the short terms affect for the senior team will be that bad, though I do agree it will affect the junior teams a bit more in the short term. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
soccerbeast Posted October 30, 2004 Share Posted October 30, 2004 Edmonton and Calgary wont be missed by the A League. These cities are dead when it comes to supporting soccer, so lets stop giving them franchises when the people don't give a damn. Lets the the MLS in Toronto,followed by Montreal and maybe Vancouver. The A-league if looking for future Canadian sites, try Hamilton, Ottawa,London, Quebec City and down east. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DarnCherry Posted October 30, 2004 Share Posted October 30, 2004 quote:Originally posted by soccerbeast Edmonton and Calgary wont be missed by the A League. These cities are dead when it comes to supporting soccer, so lets stop giving them franchises when the people don't give a damn. Lets the the MLS in Toronto,followed by Montreal and maybe Vancouver. The A-league if looking for future Canadian sites, try Hamilton, Ottawa,London, Quebec City and down east. Given how poorly run Calgary and Edmonton were, how can you blame the fans? I'm sure when Calgary played out of Foothills and their kickoff times and game days were regularly switched by the city without much notice (what team rents a stadium and signs an agreement that would allow the city to do that) that turned off fans. Why bother with a team when you don't know if they are going to play on the day they were scheduled for, or if the kickoff is going to be moved up or back by a few hours? In Edmontons case, they scheduled games only to have all of their games re-scheduled for weeknights at the last moment. Once again thats some weird stadium rental agreement they had. Then with more than half of their home games remaining they ended up playing out of different and crappy stadiums (or essentially public parks on occasion). Another big turnoff for fans when you have to guess at what stadium they are going to play at each game. Occasional 6pm weeknight kickoff didn't help either. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Winnipeg Fury Posted October 30, 2004 Author Share Posted October 30, 2004 quote:Originally posted by soccerbeast Edmonton and Calgary wont be missed by the A League. These cities are dead when it comes to supporting soccer, so lets stop giving them franchises when the people don't give a damn. Lets the the MLS in Toronto,followed by Montreal and maybe Vancouver. The A-league if looking for future Canadian sites, try Hamilton, Ottawa,London, Quebec City and down east. Spoken like a true opponent of Canadian soccer ! Toronto barely get's more than Calgary and Edmonton and averages below A-league average attendance. If you think that Montreal, Vancouver and TO are all going to be magically included in MLS now or in the future, you are on glue. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Joe Keeper Posted October 31, 2004 Share Posted October 31, 2004 quote:Originally posted by soccerbeast Edmonton and Calgary wont be missed by the A League. These cities are dead when it comes to supporting soccer, so lets stop giving them franchises when the people don't give a damn. Lets the the MLS in Toronto,followed by Montreal and maybe Vancouver. The A-league if looking for future Canadian sites, try Hamilton, Ottawa,London, Quebec City and down east. Calgary and Edmonton care about soccer. As stated by others, it is the managment and venue problems that plagued these teams. The mustangs had more solid ownership than the Storm did however. Jurgen Haan and John Torode where quoted as saying that Calgary is looking to return in 2006. It may not happen, but these are fine soccer cities. I came in from out of town to see games and was proud to support the Mustangs. Perhaps what the two should have done was to go and play in the PDL for a few seasons hence while they develop a bigger fan base and business plan, then return to the A-league. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
soccerbeast Posted October 31, 2004 Share Posted October 31, 2004 quote:Originally posted by Joe Keeper Calgary and Edmonton care about soccer. As stated by others, it is the managment and venue problems that plagued these teams. The mustangs had more solid ownership than the Storm did however. Jurgen Haan and John Torode where quoted as saying that Calgary is looking to return in 2006. It may not happen, but these are fine soccer cities. I came in from out of town to see games and was proud to support the Mustangs. Perhaps what the two should have done was to go and play in the PDL for a few seasons hence while they develop a bigger fan base and business plan, then return to the A-league. Edmonton Drillers (NASL) went bust Edmonton Brickmen (CPSL) went bust Edmonton Avaitors (A-League ) went bust Calgary Boomers (NASL) went bust Calgary Kickers (CPSL) went bust Calgary FC/Mustangs (A-League) went bust do you see a pattern here? while these teams did not have solid owners, they never did have the fan support as well, these two cities will never accept soccer. If any luck the CFL will die in the next couple of years and soccer can make a rebound there. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Winnipeg Fury Posted October 31, 2004 Author Share Posted October 31, 2004 There's been a lot more teams that have failed in TO, so by the same logic, MLS is doomed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DoyleG Posted October 31, 2004 Share Posted October 31, 2004 quote:Originally posted by Joe Keeper Calgary and Edmonton care about soccer. As stated by others, it is the managment and venue problems that plagued these teams. The mustangs had more solid ownership than the Storm did however. Jurgen Haan and John Torode where quoted as saying that Calgary is looking to return in 2006. It may not happen, but these are fine soccer cities. I came in from out of town to see games and was proud to support the Mustangs. Perhaps what the two should have done was to go and play in the PDL for a few seasons hence while they develop a bigger fan base and business plan, then return to the A-league. I see the PDL as part of the problem with the Storm. When they moved up into the A-League, they should've kept any thought of a PDL team on the shelf till they were on more soild footing. The same could apply to the Aviators and the W-League team. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jarrek Posted October 31, 2004 Share Posted October 31, 2004 quote:There's been a lot more teams that have failed in TO, so by the same logic, MLS is doomed. Can you list them? You'd be suprised. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
argh1 Posted October 31, 2004 Share Posted October 31, 2004 quote:Originally posted by Jarrek Can you list them? You'd be suprised. Okay here I go again someone stop me I'm tired being called a Toronto basher just cuz I don't like CSA cheer leading ......but then again oh......well. .....moving onto the Blizzard , Falcons , Croatia ( yes some are still on life support in the CPSL drawing crowds in the hundred and less) NASL . The Blizzard and Rocket (still in the CPSL) CSL . Let's not forget what a hit the Lynx have been according to www.kenn.com here's Lynx attendances : 1997- 1,538 1998- 1,800 1999- 2,744 2000- 2,620 2001- 2,795 2002- 1,730 2003- 2,651 2004- 2,444 The moral of the story is outside of Montreal & Vancouver who also had ownership problems except for short spells pro soccer ain't catchin' on in this country . Someone should give the Hartrells medals for bank rolling the Lynx . No major city in this country is exempt from failed pro soccer teams . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Winnipeg Fury Posted October 31, 2004 Author Share Posted October 31, 2004 Yes, and those are crowds in a city of 4 million people. Truly pathetic. I agree completely that the Hartell's have done a great job developing Canadian talent. Serioux, Stalteri, Poznaik, Kojic, Reda, etc, etc..... Three cheers to the Hartell's ! The CSA need more owners like them. As for pro crowds, the Winnipeg Fury in the CSL were second only to Vancouver. The crowds were very respectable, despite the fact there was ongoing ownership problems. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Free kick Posted October 31, 2004 Share Posted October 31, 2004 How bout doing some research http://www.rsssf.com/usadave/nasl.html Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Free kick Posted October 31, 2004 Share Posted October 31, 2004 quote:Originally posted by argh1 Why are you including indoor soccer teams on your list? I don't go to see indoor soccer and many people who watch the outdoor game won't either. Indoor soccer and outdoor soccer are two different sports. Its like comparing basketball to slam ball. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
argh1 Posted October 31, 2004 Share Posted October 31, 2004 quote:Originally posted by Free kick How bout doing some research http://www.rsssf.com/usadave/nasl.html Really , honestly , truly ........not being a dick what am I looking for ? I'm about to give up on any thread that has anything to do with Toronto ( wow touchy ). I included indoor cuz I did ! I will delete indoor mention if you feel inappropriate .......now Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Winnipeg Fury Posted October 31, 2004 Author Share Posted October 31, 2004 Agreed that indoor shouldn't be on the list, but it doesn't change the fact that the Lynx have had sub-standard crowds in a massive market. Nor do I see the Lynx as a blip on the radar, as they are entering their ninth season. I don't see that as an attack on the Lynx. They have done an amazing job of developing Canadian talent for some major European lubs. Any professional club in Canada that can last a decade deserves our full support. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
soccerbeast Posted October 31, 2004 Share Posted October 31, 2004 The Lynx have never had a proper stadium to play in, and their choice of game times and dates have always been a turn off for a lot of their support. The Lynx have done well but it's time for the MLS in Toronto. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
argh1 Posted October 31, 2004 Share Posted October 31, 2004 quote:Originally posted by soccerbeast The Lynx have never had a proper stadium to play in, and their choice of game times and dates have always been a turn off for a lot of their support. The Lynx have done well but it's time for the MLS in Toronto. Why do I do this to myself .....masochism I guess ......but weren't the 1st few years in the old Varsity Stadium ...... one of the city's treasures to be missed ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
soccerbeast Posted October 31, 2004 Share Posted October 31, 2004 Varsity was a total wreck even when the LYNX moved there, the seating was terrible,the only thing it had going for it was location, right on the subway. Even the new stadium won't have that, it's in the middle of no where. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
argh1 Posted October 31, 2004 Share Posted October 31, 2004 quote:Originally posted by soccerbeast Varsity was a total wreck even when the LYNX moved there, the seating was terrible,the only thing it had going for it was location, right on the subway. Even the new stadium won't have that, it's in the middle of no where. I give up ........I'll stick to the general section and track my Euro Leagues and the Impact and stay clear of anything west of Edmundston . Boiz oh Boiz oh Boiz Buudahz wonder why Maritimers isolate themselves me son . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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