Anyone else wish...

[strobe_z]

..that even half of the Canadian fans spouting off on CBC about "Team Canada Rulz!" showed half as much emotion about Canada getting to a real World Cup?

I'm a pretty big hockey fan, and I LOVED the Olympics.. but this tournament seems so contrived. They basically just picked whichever teams they wanted to (not that there's that many more to choose from really) and played NHL rules.

I'm happy we won.. but I really wish we could somehow translate all that positive energy into our soccer program.

[Grasshopper]

Well, we've got a problem with your wish. Canada is number one in hockey, regardless of it's stature as a marginal sport by some. I'm not certain where Canada is ranked in basketball, but it's got to be in the top 20. Similar with rugby. We even somehow made the cricket world cup. In soccer, we're 99th. I used to think that it was a scam, but now based on continued poor results I'm not so sure. How can we expect the nation to get excited when we're so far away from the possibility of qualifying? Compare the crowd in Edmonton against Honduras versus the crowd in Edmonton versus T&T in 2000. When the team was perceived to be on the rise, the crowd came out. When it had a string of disappointing results, the crowd didn't. I think that if Canada can do the impossible and qualify for the hex, that we will see more excitement (your guess is as good as mine as to how much more). But our team has to start performing.

All the demonization and marginalisation of hockey on this board comes across sounding very desperate. If we want to see half as much emotion about our soccer team, if not going to come for free. The soccer team has to perform. Attendance in Edmonton and Sportsnet tv ratings will tell you that everybody loves a winner (I'm thinking of the women's under-19 team).

That the tournament seems contrived to you is your opinion and your certainly entitled to it. As for me, there are still only so many nations playing quality hockey. It used to be six, but since the split of Czechoslovakia there are seven. Inviting all seven makes sense to me; Germany being the 8th invitee is fine, as they've got a quality league and are now producing homegrown NHL talent. So I think you're argument about they picked whichever teams they wanted to holds very little water; it's not like Russia or Sweden weren't on the list. I think that the involvement of the best players will tell you whether or not the tournament is contrived or important. The tournament is still new and still has to find its feet, but to call it contrived compared to soccer's real World Cup smacks of envy, sour grapes...something along those lines.

Our soccer team won't be able to feed off the hockey team's glow until it starts to win with some frequency. Our nation has a pretty big inferiority complex with respect to sports. Witness when our world class athletes don't come in first in their sports; they are chokers and Canada sucks. (Mike Weir, Perdita Felicien, etc.) I think that our national sporting history is one of being afraid of being let down; the masses won't come to soccer until the the national team stops letting even the most passionate supporters feeling let down.

Blair

quote:Originally posted by strobe_z

..that even half of the Canadian fans spouting off on CBC about "Team Canada Rulz!" showed half as much emotion about Canada getting to a real World Cup?

I'm a pretty big hockey fan, and I LOVED the Olympics.. but this tournament seems so contrived. They basically just picked whichever teams they wanted to (not that there's that many more to choose from really) and played NHL rules.

I'm happy we won.. but I really wish we could somehow translate all that positive energy into our soccer program.

[Alex M]

It does seem pretty fitting that were #99, eh?

Go Canada Go!

Alex

[Free kick]

Two points: There is no guarantee that any of those people who spout off the " canada rulz' refrain on the airwaves have even watched any of the games in this tournament. When you really think about it, anyone can rush out on the street all liquored up carrying a flag, and looking goofy. The cameras will catch it and show it cause it makes for a good 5 second clip to put on the air. But more and more, I am convinced that there is no correlation between actual interest/emotional involvement/passion and actual public display of emotion. Yup, I truly believe that now. Don't get me wrong, I like all the celebrations and all. But all it really is, is a newsclip.

Best example to prove my point. There were car honking their horns and people waving flags around TO when the Leafs won their first game in the second round playoff series against the Flyers last spring. Yet they were still trailing 2-1 in games. Yet how is that event significant considering what the Leafs have done in past several years. They have been in that position or much better several times in the past 8-10 years. So how does this event warrant such an outburst of emotion? To anyone who seriously follows the Leafs, that kind of accomplishment would come accross as rather "Ho-hummish" considering it was only one game in a playoff series and it was only the second round. Leafs have been there and done that several times in the past 10 years.

Thats why you won't see these " Canada rulez" guys get all wound up about Canada in WCQ for soccer. Its because they have to be told to do so and that is the only way they get out and participate. It doesn't matter what the sport is or whether they actually enjoy it or not. That is where the media comes in. If its not the first item on the sports cast or not on the front page, they don't know about it cause they won't bother to read beyond that.

However, to a small degree, you see this even in soccer. Ever notice that WCQ is the time when we get the most trolls surfing on to these board? and the discussions get far less informative and interesting.

[Free kick]

I should also add. I thought that, unlike some past Canada cups/ World cups, this Canadian team was pretty fun to watch and easy to like IMO. For a rare time, I thought they picked a good team save for one or two players I could quibble about. Whereas in the past, some coaches/GM's would turn this event into an ego trip for themselves and their NHL team by stacking it with undeserving players from their own club. Or you would see, some one deminsional role players picked. Always hated that aspect of our teams. Example, How in the world did Shane Corson ever get chosen so often in the past?

But not this time, What I saw from Canada, kind of restored my faith in this event.

[redhat]

quote:Originally posted by Grasshopper

Well, we've got a problem with your wish. Canada is number one in hockey, regardless of it's stature as a marginal sport by some. I'm not certain where Canada is ranked in basketball, but it's got to be in the top 20. Similar with rugby. We even somehow made the cricket world cup. In soccer, we're 99th. I used to think that it was a scam, but now based on continued poor results I'm not so sure. How can we expect the nation to get excited when we're so far away from the possibility of qualifying?

In Basketball, Canada is ranked 13th in the world. FIBA only ranks the

TOP 20, and if you're not in there you're not a powerhouse. FIFA

rankings are generally bunk, but there is enough evidence to prove

that Canada is NOT top 40 nor even in the top 60 in soccer.

There are many reasons for our poor ranking and results, but instead

of providing reasons, we should address the problems and issues. We

need more friendlies and games to get better. We need to invest in

infrastructure. We also need to increase marketing to provide awareness in the public, so that when we have games here the attendance will match the efforts of the team on the pitch.

I know what strobe_z felt when we see "Canada Rulz" signs during the

World Cup. I wish similar enthusiasm can be extended to our soccer

team.

But I remember when I was visiting Montreal I went to Evangelista

Sports to pick up the 2004 Canada jersey. The clerk says they're hard

to find, and when I asked why, he says "because we're no good."

Rather than argue with this non-patriotic hourly wager, I am just

supporting the team and hopefully the issues of ranking, quality of

play, and awareness amongst the public eventually become addressed.

Just like the women's U19 team in 2002, the success on the pitch

will translate into better fan awareness.

[Free kick]

Blair,

I'll agree with you to a certain degree. Yes, you need to deliver results to get people out. But the difference between Hockey and soccer is that in hockey there is a large enough base of hardcore, knowledgeable support that you will still get good turnouts and following even if the results aren't there. Much like you'll see foreign supporters of country X in Canada during the world cup or Euro even though that pasrticular side really may not have a realistic hope of advancing beyond the group stage.

Your example about your former home town do make me wonder however. To what degree is about winning and and to what degree is about enjoyment of the game and event. Yes, we won the Gold cup in 2000 and that resulted in a 25K turnout for our first WCQ in Edm. But how could it drop off that drastically? Even though the results haven't been there. Furthermore, how can you explain that a packed house will come out to watch the very poor quality of soccer on display that the U 19 girls WC had?. One cannot call him or herself a soccer fan/supporter/enthusist if you feel that that display ( U 19 WWC) is more worthy of ones entertainment dollar than watching professions strut their stuff. There is higher quality and skill on display at your typical 12 year old boys soccer tournaments than what we saw from most countries in that U19 event.

Would you ever see a international U19 girls hockey event outdrawing the top hockey pros? even if the mens performance would have reached the bottom of the barrel proportions?

[DoyleG]

Putting faith in such rankings is very wishful thinking. Teh systems used are so unusual that you can go up the rankings without doing anything.

[redhat]

quote:Originally posted by DoyleG

Putting faith in such rankings is very wishful thinking. Teh systems used are so unusual that you can go up the rankings without doing anything.

I agree. But whichever standard you may have currently, Canada is

NOT a top 40 or top 60 country. And to exemplify further, our

losses to Cuba, Guatemala, and Honduras, did not help our case of

insisting that we're better. In the eyes of the public, we're

doormats in soccer. They judge by the scoreline and the appearances.

One interviewer asked a FSWC "soccer analyst" how Canada did in the

Olympics! How should we beat such ignorance? Better results.

If we are really better than our rankings, we should prove it.

[DoyleG]

quote:Originally posted by redhat

I agree. But whichever standard you may have currently, Canada is

NOT a top 40 or top 60 country. And to exemplify further, our

losses to Cuba, Guatemala, and Honduras, did not help our case of

insisting that we're better. In the eyes of the public, we're

doormats in soccer. They judge by the scoreline and the appearances.

Yet that shows the lack of public knowledge about the sport. You would still get the same thing even when a team has good results.

quote:Originally posted by redhat

One interviewer asked a FSWC "soccer analyst" how Canada did in the

Olympics! How should we beat such ignorance? Better results.

If we are really better than our rankings, we should prove it.

Results don't mean anything when the reporters don't know much about the sport to begin with. The Olympics showed that when we had so many "parachute" reporters covering the sport. Compare this to countries that have much smarter reporters.

[soccerbeast]

quote:Originally posted by strobe_z

..that even half of the Canadian fans spouting off on CBC about "Team Canada Rulz!" showed half as much emotion about Canada getting to a real World Cup?

I'm a pretty big hockey fan, and I LOVED the Olympics.. but this tournament seems so contrived. They basically just picked whichever teams they wanted to (not that there's that many more to choose from really) and played NHL rules.

I'm happy we won.. but I really wish we could somehow translate all that positive energy into our soccer program.

[xx(] Canada winning a questionable hockey world cup, with their own venues, their own officals just like the Winter Olympics in SLC,

one has to ask is there a difference between that and a WWE event,

all the outcomes were done before hand, nobody can say Canada won that

gold medal honestly. Soccer's world cup will alway be superior,

neutral refs doing the games, Try it Gretzky it does work,but your need for glory means you have to

have the refs in your back pocket.

[marktci]

quote:Originally posted by soccerbeast

[xx(] Canada winning a questionable hockey world cup, with their own venues, their own officals just like the Winter Olympics in SLC,

one has to ask is there a difference between that and a WWE event,

all the outcomes were done before hand, nobody can say Canada won that

gold medal honestly. Soccer's world cup will alway be superior,

neutral refs doing the games, Try it Gretzky it does work,but your need for glory means you have to

have the refs in your back pocket.

What did Wayne have to do with picking the refs or venues?

[RS]

quote:Originally posted by soccerbeast

[xx(] Canada winning a questionable hockey world cup, with their own venues, their own officals just like the Winter Olympics in SLC,

one has to ask is there a difference between that and a WWE event,

all the outcomes were done before hand, nobody can say Canada won that

gold medal honestly. Soccer's world cup will alway be superior,

neutral refs doing the games, Try it Gretzky it does work,but your need for glory means you have to

have the refs in your back pocket.

Yes, because there were so many questionable calls that swung the games in Canada's favour.

[kclee]

quote:Originally posted by soccerbeast

[xx(] Canada winning a questionable hockey world cup, with their own venues, their own officals just like the Winter Olympics in SLC,

one has to ask is there a difference between that and a WWE event,

all the outcomes were done before hand, nobody can say Canada won that

gold medal honestly. Soccer's world cup will alway be superior,

neutral refs doing the games, Try it Gretzky it does work,but your need for glory means you have to

have the refs in your back pocket.

[kclee]

Neutral!?! That Mexixan ref was far from neutral.

[Cheeta]

Bringing forward the NHL rinks, rules, and refs seems a strange argument.

You know? Since all the elite players on every team play in the NHL. Most of them for their entire adult lives.

You know?

[Bertuzzi44]

quote:Originally posted by soccerbeast

[xx(] Canada winning a questionable hockey world cup, with their own venues, their own officals just like the Winter Olympics in SLC,

one has to ask is there a difference between that and a WWE event,

all the outcomes were done before hand, nobody can say Canada won that

gold medal honestly. Soccer's world cup will alway be superior,

neutral refs doing the games, Try it Gretzky it does work,but your need for glory means you have to

have the refs in your back pocket.

umh, did you watch the game? The refs were completly fair. Plus, Canada has won the last 2 IIHF World Championships in europe, and always medals in the U-20's, U-18's etc...

[soccerbeast]

The doesn;'t mean this world cup of hockey or the winter olympics gold

wasn't a fix cause it was. screw canadian hockey, may the nhl strike be a long one.....go owners.

[canuck-fan]

I can't believe how many people are responding to Soccerbeast and his wind up tactics. Rule number one of internet message boards is (or should be): don't feed the trolls.

Ignore him, or talk around his posts, and he'll eventually go away.

[Bertuzzi44]

quote:Originally posted by canuck-fan

I can't believe how many people are responding to Soccerbeast and his wind up tactics. Rule number one of internet message boards is (or should be): don't feed the trolls.

Ignore him, or talk around his posts, and he'll eventually go away.

Wise words indeed...

[soccerbeast]

quote:Originally posted by Bertuzzi44

umh, did you watch the game? The refs were completly fair. Plus, Canada has won the last 2 IIHF World Championships in europe, and always medals in the U-20's, U-18's etc...

The referee's were pro Canadian and did effect the out come of more then one Canadian game. They were as bad as the Mexican Ref who

did Canada's game vs Homduras.

[RS]

quote:Originally posted by soccerbeast

The referee's were pro Canadian and did effect the out come of more then one Canadian game. They were as bad as the Mexican Ref who

did Canada's game vs Homduras.

Soccerbeast's most recent picture:

[amacpher]

I thought the refs were fair. But what's not fair is that Canada gets home advantage in every World Cup since 1976. So its still a mickey-mouse event. And less than 4 million people in Canada watched the final against Finland so having it played in Canada didn't generate much interest around here. Might as well have played it in Europe.