Joe Keeper Posted December 14, 2003 Share Posted December 14, 2003 Perhaps this is a moot topic. However, observing Alim Karim and reading over national teams goalie lists, I wonder just what is, or should be the goal keeping order for the senior mens? Hirschlefd may be pushed by Onstad for top spot and Stamatopolous is clearly third, however what about after that? Also we may have this debate with the Womens WC team. Swiatek was a revalation at the WWC, Karina Leblanc and Erin Macleod are more than capable. Any thoughts on The Womens order as well? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mattbin Posted December 14, 2003 Share Posted December 14, 2003 Nasty, nasty question here. Do we take the heir apparent, or the Old Guard who is Best in his League? Or he who has no playing time? Or He Who Has Those Haters? I would say, Onstad, Hirschfeld, Karim. But who knows. Last time we had this discussion, Onstad was washed up... Allez les Rouges, M@ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
loyola Posted December 14, 2003 Share Posted December 14, 2003 quote:Originally posted by mattbin Nasty, nasty question here. Do we take the heir apparent, or the Old Guard who is Best in his League? Or he who has no playing time? Or He Who Has Those Haters? I would say, Onstad, Hirschfeld, Karim. But who knows. Last time we had this discussion, Onstad was washed up... Allez les Rouges, M@ Onstad, Hirsh, Stama, Sutton, Olivieri and Karim. Olivieri was #1 with the U-23 and Karim was #2, that explain my choice. But I'm anxious to see who will start in Mexico for the last round, Karim or Olivieri? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gordon Posted December 14, 2003 Share Posted December 14, 2003 Hischfeld, Onstad, Stamatopolous, Sutton, Franks & Zagar. I have a bias towards Pro keepers playing against men. Karim, et. al. are at least one pro season away from making the top 6. Onstad is the most technically and tactically proficient keeper we have, but our defence is porous enough that we need a guy making athletic reflex saves which is why I rate Hischfeld as slightly better when dressing for the Nats. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Christian B. Posted December 14, 2003 Share Posted December 14, 2003 I have only one question: Did Pat Onstad get ever a result for the MNT with an outstanding performance during one of its 38 caps. For examples like Hirschfeld against the USA in the semi-final at the GC 2001 (0-0 after 120 minutes)& Craig Forrest at the Gold Cup 2000. I believe that the answer is no. For me he's the first responsible player for the 2 losses versus T & T during the WCQ 2002 and he seems to give A LOT of goals at every outing even if it's not always 100% its fault. My choices: Hirsch, Stamatopoulos, Sutton, Karim, Zagar, Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hamiltonfan Posted December 14, 2003 Share Posted December 14, 2003 Onstand, Hischfelf, Stama and Karim Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JayWay Posted December 14, 2003 Share Posted December 14, 2003 Hirsch, Onstad, Kenny, Zagar, Karim, Sutton. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gian-Luca Posted December 14, 2003 Share Posted December 14, 2003 Hirshfeld, Onstand, Stamatopoulos, Franks/Sutton (tie for 4th place). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
David C. Posted December 14, 2003 Share Posted December 14, 2003 1a. Hirschfeld 1b. Onstad 3.Stamatopoulos 4.Sutton 5/6. Franks/Zagar (don't know who is really better?) I agree with Gordon, Karim has shown great promise for the future but the senior team is for top pros. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jason Posted December 15, 2003 Share Posted December 15, 2003 I don't think there's any doubt that Hirschfeld and Onstad are the top two. I suspect that Onstad will start as #1 during Yallop's tenure, if for no other reason than they obviously know each other well and Yallop has a lot of faith in him. Stamatopoulous is #3 for no other reason than he's been called up and the others haven't. Current A-League keeper of the year Sutton is #4, IMO. After #3, it's simply a matter of opinion. Considering Kenny has 1 cap and Sutton or the others have never even been called up, it's nothing but speculation. Jason Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
redhat Posted December 16, 2003 Share Posted December 16, 2003 quote:Originally posted by David C. 1a. Hirschfeld 1b. Onstad 3.Stamatopoulos 4.Sutton 5/6. Franks/Zagar (don't know who is really better?) Similarly, #1 should be Onstad or Hirshfeld with Stamatopolous as next back up. Right now there's really no spectacular one of the three (in the level of Forrest, at his prime), so the door is wide open IMHO. To be real fair, Hirshfeld and Onstad has shown some flashes of brilliance, but nothing extraordinary. I figure Sutton to follow, although I'm not too impressed from what I've seen from Zagar and Franks (on TV and Pan Am 1999). I think Karim will be a goalkeeper of the future, after some exposure to Europe. Although the future looks good (Karim, Olivieri, Rayner, Thunder Dan, etc.), the concern is the coming WCQ. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fza Posted December 16, 2003 Share Posted December 16, 2003 I think if Hirshfeld completes the move to Plymouth then he`d get a lot more playing time. So that`s why I choose: 1)Lars 2)Craig Forrest (retired, still would be one of the best!!) 3)Onstad 4)Karim Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Coach Posted December 16, 2003 Share Posted December 16, 2003 Here's my list but I think Kenny deserve a start, we should be surprised. Did you know why Daniel Fernandes is not on the WYC U19 squad ? 1) Lars Hirschfeld 2) Pat Onstad 3) Kenny Stamatopoulos 4) Mike Franks (no more listed on WC player pool) 5) Daniel Fernandes 6) Greg Sutton (not listed) 7) Ali Karim 8) Simon Rayner 9) Andrew Olivieri 10) Pieter Meuleman 11) Srdjan Djekanovic 12) Thomas Lindley 13) Joshua Wagenaar 14) Theo Zagar (not listed, no caps) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ryan Keay Posted December 16, 2003 Share Posted December 16, 2003 quote:Originally posted by The Coach Here's my list but I think Kenny deserve a start, we should be surprised. Did you know why Daniel Fernandes is not on the WYC U19 squad ? 1) Lars Hirschfeld 2) Pat Onstad 3) Kenny Stamatopoulos 4) Mike Franks (no more listed on WC player pool) 5) Daniel Fernandes 6) Greg Sutton (not listed) 7) Ali Karim 8) Simon Rayner 9) Andrew Olivieri 10) Pieter Meuleman 11) Srdjan Djekanovic 12) Thomas Lindley 13) Joshua Wagenaar 14) Theo Zagar (not listed, no caps) So Theo is below guys who weren't even good enough for the u20 team, a guy who plays in the CPSL, a guy playing in Wales, a U17 keeper and the Impact's backup keeper? Im sorry, its one thing to say hes not in the nats picture, its another thing to say some sixteen year old is better than him. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Coach Posted December 16, 2003 Share Posted December 16, 2003 Ryan, For Zagar, it's not a talent issue, I just mean he's not in CSA plan nothing else. I will be very surprised if he received a call someday !! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ryan Keay Posted December 16, 2003 Share Posted December 16, 2003 quote:Originally posted by The Coach Ryan, For Zagar, it's not a talent issue, I just mean he's not in CSA plan nothing else. I will be very surprised if he received a call someday !! 1) Lars Hirschfeld 2) Pat Onstad 3) Kenny Stamatopoulos 4) Mike Franks (no more listed on WC player pool) 5) Daniel Fernandes 6) Greg Sutton (not listed) 7) Ali Karim 8) Simon Rayner 9) Andrew Olivieri 10) Pieter Meuleman 11) Srdjan Djekanovic 12) Thomas Lindley 13) Joshua Wagenaar 14) Theo Zagar (not listed, no caps) So you are saying they would call up a 16 year old kid, a CPSLer, and some U20 rejects before they even considered calling Theo Zagar right now because they had a look at them at youth level teams? Somehow I seriously, seriously doubt it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
beachesl Posted December 16, 2003 Share Posted December 16, 2003 Could someone tell me why most here think Hirschfield is felt to be so hot and Onstad so so-so given there performances this year? Given that Hirschfield has been able to play, and play adequately, does that alone put him above Onstad? Doesn't Onstad's performances in the MLS count for something, regardless of how you rank the MLS? If Yallop is appointed tomorrow as expected, Onstad will be given the start at the next friendly. If he performs well, he willl be the number one goalkeeper, unless Hirschfield performs better in the later chances he WILL get. Hirschfield's performances have been good this year, but not brilliant, and Onstad deserves a chance. The job is open in Yallop's mind, but it's time for Onstad to take the first crack. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
loyola Posted December 16, 2003 Share Posted December 16, 2003 I don't understand how people can list Fernandes before Karim or Karim before Olivieri or Rayner before Olivieri??? I think we should trust our U-23 and U-20 coaches and not get overexcited with guys playing in Europe. Like I said in another thread it seems that the NCAA is a good developement league for keepers and we shouldn't underestimate it. Remember that our 2 U-23 keepers are NCAA keepers and they are chosen before Europe keepers. The same thing happened with our U-20 squad with Karim and Wagenaar being chosen over Rayner, Fernandes and Sjerdan. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
redhat Posted December 16, 2003 Share Posted December 16, 2003 quote:Originally posted by beachesl Could someone tell me why most here think Hirschfield is felt to be so hot and Onstad so so-so given there performances this year? Given that Hirschfield has been able to play, and play adequately, does that alone put him above Onstad? Doesn't Onstad's performances in the MLS count for something, regardless of how you rank the MLS? If Yallop is appointed tomorrow as expected, Onstad will be given the start at the next friendly. If he performs well, he willl be the number one goalkeeper, unless Hirschfield performs better in the later chances he WILL get. Hirschfield's performances have been good this year, but not brilliant, and Onstad deserves a chance. Onstad will get the nod as he played more, unlike Lars. Most people will, unfortunately, remember 2 things: (1) Lars' spectacular, rapid fire saves vs. the US in GC2002; and (2) Onstad letting in the 2 goals vs. T&T in WCQ 2000 (Edmonton). Onstad deserves better, but Lars has also a lot of promise. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
beachesl Posted December 16, 2003 Share Posted December 16, 2003 Okay, thanks, that explains the general trend of this and other threads. I saw neither game (nor saw highlights), as I was far overseas and not a regular on this site at those times. However, in the scheme of things both are almost ancient history, and all potential keepers deserve decent shots in my opinion. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bungey Posted December 16, 2003 Share Posted December 16, 2003 1. Onstad 2. Hirschfeld 3. Stamatopoulis 4. All the rest Onstad is MLS keeper of the year, Lars isn't good enough to oust a 20 year old rookie at Plymouth for the starting job. It has to be Onstad to start qualifying. This can change as the year goes by, of course. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Dave Posted December 16, 2003 Share Posted December 16, 2003 1. Craig Forrest - Retired or not, he is the best we have! 2. Pat Onstad 3. Lars Hirshfeld 4. Kenny Stamatopoulos I have said this before; if Craig comes back, we will likely double our chances of making WC06. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eastcoaster Posted December 16, 2003 Share Posted December 16, 2003 eventually (a few years down the road) Thomas Lindlay will supplant all the goalies as number one if he continues his rapid progress. If I am not mistaken he has already played games for the Sheffield United reserve team, and he is still very young. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
loyola Posted December 16, 2003 Share Posted December 16, 2003 quote:Originally posted by eastcoaster eventually (a few years down the road) Thomas Lindlay will supplant all the goalies as number one if he continues his rapid progress. If I am not mistaken he has already played games for the Sheffield United reserve team, and he is still very young. Lindley look to be a promissing keeper for Canada considering the fact that he's playing with Sheffield reserve team. But remember that Daniel Fernandes was a very good prospect while playing at Celta Vigo, but now he has troubles playing with our U-20 side. I hope he'll find a club soon. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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