Trillium Posted July 29, 2014 Share Posted July 29, 2014 http://www.stathunting.com/ Gives breakdown on salary for MLS players and clubs, clearly Kansas City is best managed club based on points earned for salary expended, for the cost of one TFC Designated Player you can pay all KC's on field staff and have 2 million or so left over. Makes you wonder about competency profiles for management in clubs. On a random look at player salary's graphic excluding the deep blue of DP salary, you get a good idea of which club can id talent and turn that talent's labour into points. Should Toronto not make the playoffs with the huge salary investment they have, it will likely affect revenue to the club in terms of profit for the year, versus a club like KC. The end of year revenue numbers should tell an interesting story of who is running a club within sound economic guidelines. TFC total guaranteed salarys ( TGS ) = $16,648,858/21,566 ( seats ) 0r $771.99 dollars per seat for the season. Montreal TGS = $6,067,139/20,521 = $295.65 dollars per seat for the season SKS TGS = $3,731,1623/18,467 = $202.04 Interesting to think a second pro team in Toronto could have a salary TGS = 3,000,000/10,000 = $300 per seat which equals TFC expenditure on all players not DP's. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cheeta Posted July 29, 2014 Share Posted July 29, 2014 Interesting to look at, I guess. Questions around TGS to field points and any suggestions about the competency of organizations based on that interests me a whole lot less than the eye opening financial discrepancies between TFC, Montreal, and SKC. Wow. We know league television revenue is a constant between organizations but clearly other revenues/expenses (game day related or otherwise) must amount to a MASSIVE difference between the franchises. Ah well. That's football. Rich Club-Poor Club,. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Trillium Posted July 30, 2014 Author Share Posted July 30, 2014 We know league television revenue is a constant between organizations but clearly other revenues/expenses (game day related or otherwise) must amount to a MASSIVE difference between the franchises. Ah well. That's football. Rich Club-Poor Club,. My question would be are the TFC revenues in beer sales and ancillary items jerseys etc that strong to cover the costs year after year ? How many red TFC jacquets does one need ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
El Hombre Posted July 30, 2014 Share Posted July 30, 2014 My question would be are the TFC revenues in beer sales and ancillary items jerseys etc that strong to cover the costs year after year ? How many red TFC jacquets does one need ? I'm confused. You make it seem like they need more than the ticket price to cover the payroll. Using some simple math, it's pretty easy to see how that cost (and more) is covered: 17 games 18,131 attendance (last year's average, the lowest in it's existence) You only have to charge $54/seat to cover $16.6M. Even this doesn't take into account the following: 1) Extra Voyageurs/exhibition games played throughout the season, not to mention playoffs (if that happens this year). At $54/game, if they maintain the same attendance average, then that's an extra $979K per game. 2) That the average attendance will increase based on bringing in higher priced talent. I haven't seen the figures, but I am willing to bet that the downward trend TFC had seen in terms of attendance over the last few years will be reversed this year. 3) Other sources of income (concession, TV rights, jerseys etc.). If every fifth person buys a single beer at the game, that's over $600K in revenue right there for the year. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
youllneverwalkalone Posted July 30, 2014 Share Posted July 30, 2014 Only $54? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
El Hombre Posted July 30, 2014 Share Posted July 30, 2014 If you look at their ticket prices, they seem to cover that fairly effectively. Edit: Of course those are single game prices which are higher than the season ticket price. It's difficult to find average ticket price figures. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
youllneverwalkalone Posted July 30, 2014 Share Posted July 30, 2014 Yikes. No wonder they had to sign Jermaine Defoe. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Trillium Posted July 31, 2014 Author Share Posted July 31, 2014 If you look at their ticket prices, they seem to cover that fairly effectively. Edit: Of course those are single game prices which are higher than the season ticket price. It's difficult to find average ticket price figures. So they sold out season tickets in yellow at 834/17 or $49 a seat...loss based on your 54 number,light grey 50 per seat.. Loss,medium grey, $40 a ticket..loss. Light blue not sold out $41.00 a ticket..loss. Yes there are lots of reds...but not sold out..field seats...how many? I think the are in tight in terms of profit generation if they fail to make playoffs. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cheeta Posted July 31, 2014 Share Posted July 31, 2014 My question would be are the TFC revenues in beer sales and ancillary items jerseys etc that strong to cover the costs year after year ? How many red TFC jacquets does one need ? Maybe. Don't know. We seem to be reading your very, very, limited data differently. The quantity of bums in seats is only a small part of the equation. How much you lighten the wallet in the arse pocket of the attached bum is probably the most important. Kinda explains why we've seen the progression in sporting venues toward "luxury boxes" over the last, oh I don't know, 25 years, at the expense of capacity. Quality over quantity if you will. Another important bit of data missing is venue costs and non-footie related venue revenues. MLS' progression toward club owned facilities is no vanity project. It's financial. MLS may be the anchor tenant for justifying stadia but every single one of the 300 days a year the venue is unoccupied are revenue generating opportunities. Inherited expenses are huge too. TFC has in effect received a stadium, for free, with naming rights which should cover basic operating expenses, and existant organizational infrastructure which comes with built in scales of economy. I don't know if SKC has any of those advantages. If they don't that could run into millions of dollars per season. Add or subtract that to your calculations as you see fit. So in broad strokes...all your examples of salaries seems to tell me is that there are huge differences in the recognized revenue abilities of TFC (and BMO Field) over say the Montreal Impact and Sporting Kansas City. Rich club. Poor club. TFC is a cash cow. Soccer in Kansas City has to be done on the cheap. No great insight there. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Trillium Posted July 31, 2014 Author Share Posted July 31, 2014 Agreed we do not have clear picture of all the financials, as you say beer sales etc. add up....the one thing I can say is if TFC had the SKC results on the expenditure they make.... and the Toronto fans came out for wins and not names....well then TFC would be a Canadian Bank Note Printing Press...running 24/7 makng 100 dollar bills. Over time it will interesting to watch the various clubs and how they serate themselves interms of expenditures.. if Miami happens ...will they have deep pockets ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
narduch Posted July 31, 2014 Share Posted July 31, 2014 Back in TFC's early years I recall seeing an article that mentioned the average fan spends $11 per game on concessions. Not every fan is an alcoholic or want to over spend on food. Even with inflation that number may only be $15 per game today. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Trillium Posted July 31, 2014 Author Share Posted July 31, 2014 At 15 dollars a game your probably looking at 30 gross margin or five dollars... X 18K... so you can add that to the per seat revenue numbers...so a $40.00 dollar seat moves to $45.00 in terms of revenue. I know I spend...in the range of 24 to 40 dollars a game between beer and food, but I am on the high end, many I see at soccer matches in Montreal do not go to concessions ....indeed they seem to have cheap canned beer to sip on. Not sure what happens in the SG sections at TFC on a regular basis ... but I do not see it as being the volume business it once was. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shamrock Posted August 1, 2014 Share Posted August 1, 2014 Point is, soccer knowledge beats spending. Decent policies will get you further than three DP's... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
narduch Posted August 1, 2014 Share Posted August 1, 2014 Point is, soccer knowledge beats spending. Decent policies will get you further than three DP's... I have to wonder how long TFC can keep spending like this. Its not like there is going to be a lot of TV money. The ratings are woefully bad. Even the American TV money is propped up by the US national team and a renewed cable sports war. Eventually the networks there won't pay good money for the awful ratings. There are already rumblings that Seattle and Philadelphia aren't happy with TFC's spending spree. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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