foreverthursday Posted January 18, 2012 Share Posted January 18, 2012 So The CSL is currently D3 in Canada, but there is a new D3 league correct? Second, the CSA wants the CSL to become nation wide right? Will the Canadian clubs associated with the USL, ever cut ties to it, and if so would they be good enough to join the CSL? Would the CSL and PCSL ever become the same league with an East and a West Conference? What are ticket prices like to CSL games? Do CSL games ever get more then a thousand fans to a game? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ThiKu Posted January 18, 2012 Share Posted January 18, 2012 1. Yes. 2. Sounds like they want a network of D3, not necessarily for CSL to go nationwide. Plus CSL seems to be losing its D3 status. 3. ??? 4. A CSL team and a PCSL team had a friendly in Vancouver for just this purpose (2010) - to facilitate the discussion. It never went anywhere. (amongst other things sounds like CSL demanded a high expansion fee - for reasons beyond comprehension considering the current state of the league). 5. Someone else will know. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
foreverthursday Posted January 18, 2012 Author Share Posted January 18, 2012 3. ??? Would the current seven PDL teams ever leave the USL and join existing Canadian leagues? Are the PDL teams the same talent level as the CSL? I am guessing the CSL is significantly stronger, but I don't know. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tuscan Posted January 18, 2012 Share Posted January 18, 2012 Would the current seven PDL teams ever leave the USL and join existing Canadian leagues? Are the PDL teams the same talent level as the CSL? I am guessing the CSL is significantly stronger, but I don't know. From what I've heard, the CSL really isn't all that much of a screaming hell when it comes to talent level. For the non-serious response to this, could any league with Andrea Lombardo really be that strong? For the more serious answer, something tells me a team like the Thunderbay Chill would wipe the floor with many of the CSL teams aside from the couple at the top. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tuscan Posted January 18, 2012 Share Posted January 18, 2012 Second, the CSA wants the CSL to become nation wide right? If you're referring to the current Canadian D2 league study being conducted by ReThink Management Group, the CSA has no preference for how such a league would take shape or which organization would act as the administrative backbone. At least, that is the impression I've gotten. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BringBackTheBlizzard Posted January 18, 2012 Share Posted January 18, 2012 So The CSL is currently D3 in Canada, but there is a new D3 league correct? More accurate to say new semi-pro leagues. New provincial leagues in Ontario (League One Ontario) and Quebec (Ligue de soccer elite du Quebec) have received sanctioning to start play in 2012 if they can put all the pieces together in terms of having enough teams in place. Second, the CSA wants the CSL to become nation wide right? Wouldn't be opposed to it obviously but unlikely to ever hand the equity owners of the CSL a blank cheque on this, so if another group emerges that can get the job done more efficiently they are unlikely to stick with the CSL no matter what. There are rumours that the CSL could lose its D3 sanctioning this week because only 3 of its members currently meet the CSA's sanctioning standards. Will the Canadian clubs associated with the USL, ever cut ties to it, and if so would they be good enough to join the CSL? Seems unlikely any time soon and if it is PDL you have in mind being good enough isn't necessarily the main issue. The league formats are very different. One uses student athletes for the most part, while the other uses semi-pro players with regular 9 to 5 jobs in a senior hockey sort of way. PDL is a viable option in a city like Thunder Bay but the CSL would not be due to the use of semi-pro players and the excessive travel demands that would be involved. Would the CSL and PCSL ever become the same league with an East and a West Conference? Seems unlikely given the PCSL is amateur and has shown no inclination to turn semi-pro. As explained above there was an attempt in 2010 to form a new BC CSL division. What Thiku doesn't mention is that the PCSL team involved in the exhibition game against Toronto Croatia had fallen out with the PCSL's executive and is probably better described as a Fraser Valley Soccer League club (I think they are FVSL rather than VMSL anyway?). The league commissioner who pushed expansion to BC left the league a few months later and after that talk of expansion to other provinces appeared to become more of a long-term aspiration than something that was portrayed as being just around the corner. What are ticket prices like to CSL games? Do CSL games ever get more then a thousand fans to a game? Not all that expensive and very seldom unless fueled by a Serb vs Croat rivalry or the playoff final. One hundred would probably be a better bench mark for a large crowd in a CSL context. In Alberta terms it's like a stronger version of the AMSL making an effort to package itself as a pro league without achieving the substance of it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VPjr Posted January 18, 2012 Share Posted January 18, 2012 If you're referring to the current Canadian D2 league study being conducted by ReThink Management Group, the CSA has no preference for how such a league would take shape or which organization would act as the administrative backbone. At least, that is the impression I've gotten. You're impression would be correct Tuscan Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ThiKu Posted January 18, 2012 Share Posted January 18, 2012 Would the current seven PDL teams ever leave the USL and join existing Canadian leagues? Are the PDL teams the same talent level as the CSL? I am guessing the CSL is significantly stronger, but I don't know. I have no idea really about anyone except the BC teams - and even then I am guessing. The owner of Highlanders has suggested a Canadian league won't work. I can see Abbotsford joining a Canadian league but only if it's regional barring significant financial support. I have no clue what Whitecaps would do but I know they have stated a u23 league isn't ideal for their players. So maybe they would leave PDL? Then again, Portland is in PDL, and Sounders seem to be taking over Tacoma so the Caps would maybe stay? Tough to say from my perspective as I have none! Abbotsford really approaches the PDL in the right way. It's free, first of all. It's the top of the club pyramid along with a link with the University of Fraser Valley. They have a u20 team now supporting it (they weren't in Super 20 last year and I don't know if they will or won't be this year) who weren't in a league - but now have a u21 team in the Fraser Valley soccer league so I suspect the the u20 and u21 teams are linked - but I am not a part of that as I am way down the age ladder at the club coaching u12's. Too much to worry about with the 11 year olds than to think about the 18-21 year olds! I don't know if the u20 team is free. You can be sure the u21 team is NOT free, nor would the senior team that is also in the Fraser Valley Soccer League - which also has a lot of PDL players who join after UFV is done and to stay sharp before the PDL season. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ThiKu Posted January 18, 2012 Share Posted January 18, 2012 Seems unlikely given the PCSL is amateur and has shown no inclination to turn semi-pro. As explained above there was an attempt in 2010 to form a new BC CSL division. What Thiku doesn't mention is that the PCSL team involved in the exhibition game against Toronto Croatia had fallen out with the PCSL's executive and is probably better described as a Fraser Valley Soccer League club (I think they are FVSL rather than VMSL anyway?). The league commissioner who pushed expansion to BC left the league a few months later and after that talk of expansion to other provinces appeared to become more of a long-term aspiration than something that was portrayed as being just around the corner. BBTB, yer a tool. I knew there was a reason I blocked yer posts. But I just had to read this one knowing there'd be nonsense. I didn't NOT mention those details. At the time ACBC was in good standing - and they were also a very strong team at the time and won the match - to many folks' surprise. The meeting wasn't one of Toronto Croatia and ACBC discussing such a merger. It was a venue for which league officials could discuss the merger/partnership/expansion or whatever you wanted to call it. So what I didn't mention was that the league officials were having the discussion. And yes, ACBC is an FVSL team now that has merged with Surrey FC at that level. I believe the Surrey FC team they merged with is basically the "B" team for the Surrey FC team in the VMSL (but I am not exactly certain if they are linked). Although FVSL is technically the same level as VMSL in the same way Scotland Prem is technically the same level as England Prem the leagues are a good distance apart in the technical/tactical areas of the game. However, Poco, an FVSL team, is apparently one of the odds-on-favs to win the provincial cup this year and are moving to VMSL next year. So it's a good league in its own right. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BringBackTheBlizzard Posted January 18, 2012 Share Posted January 18, 2012 BBTB, yer a tool.... Given you are a moderator on here I demand an immediate retraction and apology. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Redcoatsforever Posted January 18, 2012 Share Posted January 18, 2012 Given you are a moderator on here I demand an immediate retraction and apology. ThiKu is a mod? His status is listed as "Senior Member"... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BringBackTheBlizzard Posted January 18, 2012 Share Posted January 18, 2012 Bettermirror is listed as a mod and there is "aka Bettermirror" in his signature line. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ted Posted January 18, 2012 Share Posted January 18, 2012 The owner of Highlanders has suggested a Canadian league won't work. He was speaking of a D2 national league. A regional D3 is not that far a leap from the PDL and with some solid sponsorships onboard I would think it is quite possible. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Redcoatsforever Posted January 18, 2012 Share Posted January 18, 2012 He was speaking of a D2 national league. A regional D3 is not that far a leap from the PDL and with some solid sponsorships onboard I would think it is quite possible. It might even be more easily marketed than PDL is. I have to think that "Canadian Premier Leagues" or "Canada League One" would sound better to the person-on-the-street than "Premier Development League". Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alberta white Posted January 18, 2012 Share Posted January 18, 2012 It might even be more easily marketed than PDL is. I have to think that "Canadian Premier Leagues" or "Canada League One" would sound better to the person-on-the-street than "Premier Development League". Is it just me or does "Premier Development League" sound like an Academy League? And Could/ Would the casual soccer fan/ general public be of the impression, that its essentially closed to the viewing public? We have Junior WHL in my town. Its advertized every weekend on Shiny billboards (at about$5-10) and it gets a decent turnout at the Rink., even with Oilers and Oilkings games within half a hours drive. Anybody ever straw-poled near their Local PDL to find out if the General Public know its a actually availavble for general spectator viewing? I sometimes get the impression that these Leagues try to (non-)promote themselves as if they were Private Golf Clubs. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ThiKu Posted January 18, 2012 Share Posted January 18, 2012 He was speaking of a D2 national league. A regional D3 is not that far a leap from the PDL and with some solid sponsorships onboard I would think it is quite possible. Yes. Yer right. I meant to suggest a Canadian League as meaning nationwide. D3 would be great and I'd hope HFC would be a part of that and eventually a D2. I haven't been reading BBTB's posts here but see RedCoat quoted him. No, I am not a mod. bettermirror was. I signed off BM, registered a new name, and didn't ask to be or was offered to be a moderator again. I don't know BM's password anymore, so no risk there. Mods can delete that account if they want in fact. You won't receive an apology for my calling you a tool. You took what I said and then extrapolated it for your own purposes. I'd be justified in asking for an apology from you for that, if I actually cared. Moving on.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lovethegame! Posted January 19, 2012 Share Posted January 19, 2012 Hey guys, I have a lot of respect for Canadian Soccer, I have been involved in both the PDL, CSL, and old CPSL. The CSL is easily, easily, the most overrated league in Canadian History. Its a glorified men's league, only important in the GTA. Honestly nobody else cares, rates it etc. Its really poor. The Ottawa Team that dominated the league this season and lost in the final - half of the team couldn't make the PDL Fury teams (with respect to last years shocking team). I don't want to be too negative, but the CSL talk on here is awful, people talk as if its a top league or something? there are some very good players in the league don't get me wrong, but as a whole? Come on guys.. its not good. Call it D3, call it whatever, I will call it a men's league. I was so excited to see ottawa get a team, and get on board, and watch good soccer.. I even bought season tickets! And by game 4 or so, bored to death, I had played against some of the players on the team, and honestly think I could have made the roster past my prime! The PDL is much stronger (as a whole, there are weak teams in every league) - much more athletic, and much more potential. I mean numerous players per year from the PDL get into NASL, MLS USL PRO etc. Sorry Toronto because I am sure you all will go nuts on this post - but outside of Toronto, or for that matter anyone who knows the game beyond there own little bubble will say the same. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BringBackTheBlizzard Posted January 19, 2012 Share Posted January 19, 2012 ...but the CSL talk on here is awful, people talk as if its a top league or something?... It's been that way on here since the very early days of the old network54 version of this forum. Some people appear to have a very deep emotional need for a strong specifically Canadian soccer league to emerge and see any criticism of the CSL as being an attack on that concept and perhaps even on Canadian identity in general. I agree with what you say about the relative merits of PDL and the CSL at the moment in terms of producing players for genuinely pro level soccer but at the same time I think it has to be admitted that PDL hasn't really worked for Canadian players to any huge extent because the whole NCAA scholarship thing that it is tied into is more geared towards American players. Hopefully in the years ahead the powers that be in Canadian soccer will take what is good about PDL and adapt that model of operations to better fit the needs of Canadian players. Beyond that something to bear in mind maybe is that this is a fan board rather than one geared primarily towards people who have actually participated in the sport at a reasonably competitive level. I think that angle is more significant than any Toronto vs everybody else divide. I have met plenty of knowledgeable soccer people from the GTA over the years who see things the same way you do where the CSL is concerned. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BringBackTheBlizzard Posted January 19, 2012 Share Posted January 19, 2012 ....You won't receive an apology for my calling you a tool..... http://www.cansoc.org/showthread.php?38105-Voyageur-Forum-Guidelines 1. General Forum Rules: These rules apply to all Forum categories. 1.1. Please refrain from any personal insults, name-calling, or purposeless inflammatory posts (ie. trolling). Whenever possible, please be polite when addressing another poster. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Redcoatsforever Posted January 19, 2012 Share Posted January 19, 2012 http://www.cansoc.org/showthread.php?38105-Voyageur-Forum-Guidelines 1. General Forum Rules: These rules apply to all Forum categories. 1.1. Please refrain from any personal insults, name-calling, or purposeless inflammatory posts (ie. trolling). Whenever possible, please be polite when addressing another poster. Can we just not go this route? Seriously, every thread in this subforum with a mention of the CSL descends into a wild flame-fest. Is there any way we could all just stop and not do it this time? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BringBackTheBlizzard Posted January 19, 2012 Share Posted January 19, 2012 I would suggest that a good place to start would be to respect the rules of the forum and that a more pertinent question would be why they haven't been enforced. Every time I see a personal insult from now on in these threads I am going to highlight the breach of the rules rather than ignoring it given that is a strategy which has not eliminated or alleviated the problem. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alberta white Posted January 19, 2012 Share Posted January 19, 2012 As Far as I'm concerned anybody can call me what they will. I shall endevour to embrace said title as if loving crafted with scented Lilly water and Lavender cotton balls, carefully package with overt effection and delivered to me by the nurturing hands of the Fairies that once lived at the bottom Of Brian Clough's garden. ....It thats aright with you blokes? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BringBackTheBlizzard Posted January 19, 2012 Share Posted January 19, 2012 That post might make sense if I hadn't been ignoring this stuff for months. I'm not bothered by the insults. People will consider the source. It's the effect it has on discussion that is the issue. Look at the title of this thread. It says it all. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RS Posted January 20, 2012 Share Posted January 20, 2012 Sorry Toronto because I am sure you all will go nuts on this post - but outside of Toronto, or for that matter anyone who knows the game beyond there own little bubble will say the same. Ah, good old Toronto bashing. It never goes out of style on this board, does it? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ThiKu Posted January 20, 2012 Share Posted January 20, 2012 As Far as I'm concerned anybody can call me what they will. I shall endevour to embrace said title as if loving crafted with scented Lilly water and Lavender cotton balls, carefully package with overt effection and delivered to me by the nurturing hands of the Fairies that once lived at the bottom Of Brian Clough's garden. ....It thats aright with you blokes? just doing a forum version of "re-tweeting" !! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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