If I could ask u17 NT coach Bryan Rosenfeld anything...

[StrandOne]

I'd ask him if he'd do a cross-Canada trip to do a 2-day clinic in EVERY province, once a year.

[Trillium]

I'd ask him if he'd do a cross-Canada trip to do a 2-day clinic in EVERY province, once a year.

He works for the Ontario Soccer Association, send them a letter and ask them to fund him going on tour.

[StrandOne]

He works for the Ontario Soccer Association, send them a letter and ask them to fund him going on tour.

I see no reason why OSA would foot a bill to "lend" their Technical Director to Quebec, AB, BC, etc. I understand the NTC's exist but it'd be great for NATIONAL COACHES (all of them) to tour the country at least once a year to INVEST in a broader cross-section of their constituents.

I have no reason to believe Bryan wouldn't try to visit more of the country. I wonder if all national coaches are up for it. Sure might be nice.

[Vic]

I believe our team programs run about 50% of expenditures. If they can reallocate money from somewhere in the CSA that is poorly utilized then great, if not our team programs are too thin.

Another approach would be for individual or groups of clubs and associations (local/regional/provincial) to work together and proact to bring them in. Plan it out, pay their flights and put them up. It's really not a lot of money for the cost to be shared like that. It's probably also the only way to make it happen if you want it to. Run conjoined weekends alongside their visits - multi-themed soccer conferences, or 2-day certification or coaching courses, or weekend management and development retreats. If groups were to propose something and invest in it, I think they would find the national body/coaches to be receptive.

And thanks for the spark, it's been too quiet lately.

[Martyr]

^

This is the way it has been done in Newfoundland, at least it was when I spent a year there in 2003/2004. They flew in Colin Miller to do a long weekend's worth of work with the provincial allstar squads and he did a couple of demonstration sessions as well for coaches in the St. John's area. Lewis Page also paid a visit annually representing the Atlantic National Training Centre. I assume this is still the practice now.

Having coached at the National Provincial Allstar Championships in 2004 I came away thinking that that tournament could be so much more relevant by making it a week long affair with National Team coaches running training sessions and National Team players speaking to provincial team players about travel issues, fitness training, what it is like to play for clubs abroad, nutrition etc. It should be more of a conference/festival for the athletes and coaches as you describe above. The teams would still play their matches as before but allow for at least one rest day imbetween to attend different seminars and maybe get to know some of the players from the other provinces.

[Richard]

It is my understanding from following the NTC program via BC Soccer that national team coaches visit the BC NTC twice a year for several days at a time. I can only assume that they visit other NTCs accross the country on a similar basis. Who pays their expenses I have no idea but I imagine it is the CSA.

[Bill Spiers]

It is my understanding from following the NTC program via BC Soccer that national team coaches visit the BC NTC twice a year for several days at a time. I can only assume that they visit other NTCs accross the country on a similar basis. Who pays their expenses I have no idea but I imagine it is the CSA.

The CSA used to announce a schedule for these visits.

However, I haven't seen such an announcement since 2008 (although I could have missed them). The 2008 announcement can be seen here.

[StrandOne]

... And thanks for the spark, it's been too quiet lately.

thanks Vic. busy life interrupts a consistent presence. tons of interesting discussions i'd love to make more time to follow and contribute to. LOVED the Syndey Leroux post. i watched many of the u20 games. a few alongside a budding CDN superstar-- Bianca Ribi-- and her Dad. Bianca went to u14 All-Star nationals this year, scoring 2/3 of Team Alberta's goals. If her Calgary Chinook team wins today, she'll attend u14 Club nationals as well. we chatted about Ms. Leroux because Bianca is a striker... as was I @ UWaterloo.

Thanks to all who commented. I agree that local youth assoc'n should pay to bring Bryan Rosenfeld & Carlina Moracce to their town. There are HUNDREDS of soccer camps & clinics across this country every year but few that showcase THE National Head Coaches. How much do you think a player should pay for 4hrs of instruction from Moracce/Rosenfeld + 1 game? And what seems reasonable to charge a player for a DVD featuring their game performance?

[Richard]

The CSA used to announce a schedule for these visits.

However, I haven't seen such an announcement since 2008 (although I could have missed them). The 2008 announcement can be seen here.

The BC visits are routinely announced on the BC Soccer Association website complete with the local schedule for the visits. I am quite sure if the national coaches come to the BC NTCs they visit all the other NTCs across the country as well.

[Vic]

There's probably a suggested or minimum appearance number but it is likely affected by the 2-year tournament cycle. The NTC is also only purely relevant for our U20 teams. The U15's are provincial kids, the U17's to some extent too, and our senior women are almost all graduates of the centers.

The big win from having national or international coaches visit is in having them educate the coaches and upper-level stakeholders and not the players directly. Any players used would be to help them demonstrate. I would lean more to having them in classrooms, seminars, round tables, open Q&A and to present on topics they feel relevant and/or required. There are all kinds of great instructional videos and dvd's available easily if not on youtube. The value people like this bring is their wealth of understanding of the highest end of Canadian soccer and relaying it (i.e. comparatively assessing, evaluating and critiquing local methodologies as well as proposing suggestions and solutions for improvement). That's the stuff I would transcribe or video and then kernel it and trickle down to people.

[navycyr]

I'd ask him if he'd do a cross-Canada trip to do a 2-day clinic in EVERY province, once a year.

NTCs are visited twice a year ! If the goal is to scout for talent, that would be no use ! Rumor says U17 NT ex-coach Ian Bridge would have scouted some girls on the U16 2009 club national champions but were labeled as unavailable by the Quebec NTC management since they were not attending NTC. As a result, none were invited, altough in my belief they would have deserved to be looked at, especially when you know this is probably the best offensive team in the country (averaging 5.2 goals per game last year and doing even better this year in the U18 with 6.2 goals per game) while our U17 girls are more known for their defensive abilities than their offensive ones !

[Soccer9]

Yes it is unfortunate for this NTC bias, especially for those players that were invited and did not accept. They simply get black listed. On the other hand if you have the talent and stay focused you will come back into radar when you are in College ball as there NT coaches like Morace just take who they want and could care less about NTC pressure.

[The Ref]

^ It is sad when players have to be in a College team for our national coach to be able to recruit them and thus bypass our own NTC who developed them! Something is ass backwards.

[Vic]

If you are a fringe player then yes you would naturally be expected to demonstrate and invest with a level of commitment. If that's joining an NTC or accepting a call to camp that's reasonable. I would think the majority of our national teams operate that way.

There are always enormous obstacles - politics, playing styles, personality conflicts, injuries, life issues, money, etc. But if you're committed to being a world class player and have the talent to become one, the future writes itself.

There are soccer opportunities in leagues and school both home and abroad. Find the best competition you can and make a name for yourself, achieve greatness and continuously demonstrate that you can play the game at a world class level against elite players. And when you get to the point where you can do it on a regular basis you write your own name on the roster.

[Soccer9]

^^ So true Vic.

Sadly though many good players get de-motivated and broken when they are left out of the "regular" rise to the top of an Elite player in Canada

e.g. Club team-->Regional team/program ---> Provincial Team--->NTC---> U17NT-->U20NT--> Canadian Senior National Team

Persistence is the key.

[Vic]

re: Club team-->Regional team/program ---> Provincial Team--->NTC---> U17NT-->U20NT--> Canadian Senior National Team

Yes unfortunately that's how girls view their career. Compare that to the boys side where they dream of being a professional and club isn't the first step, it's the main thing.

You could say we have one 'professional' women's team in Canada, it operates on average a couple of weeks a year, it pays almost nothing, and yet every girl dreams of it. I pray for the day women have better opportunities and aren't subject to a single tragically compensating do-or-die option to measure their success.

[ThruBall]

re: Club team-->Regional team/program ---> Provincial Team--->NTC---> U17NT-->U20NT--> Canadian Senior National Team

Yes unfortunately that's how girls view their career. Compare that to the boys side where they dream of being a professional and club isn't the first step, it's the main thing.

You could say we have one 'professional' women's team in Canada, it operates on average a couple of weeks a year, it pays almost nothing, and yet every girl dreams of it. I pray for the day women have better opportunities and aren't subject to a single tragically compensating do-or-die option to measure their success.

I disagree with you Vic....from my experience speaking with girls in the game who are apart of the "development" system here in Ontario their first ambition is to play in the NCAA. Many who are apart of the current development system at the Provincial and NTC level believe by participating in this select program they have bettered their chances of attaining their goal.

When I read the CSA bulletins they refer to these players as the “best” in Canada.

To me that seems a little circumspect. If the CSA believes they need to tell everyone these players are the best is that because they assume their audience believes the CSA would not select the “best”?

When BR can only identify players in Ontario for the WNT17 roster who have been under his nose for 3 years and then come forward and tell everyone that they have been apart of the Provincial Development System that simply screams of self full filling propaganda since he is the one who runs the program.

If I were to ask BR one thing my question would be which Coach in Ontario does he feel is qualified and capable to replace him should for some reason he moves onto a higher calling out side of Ontario?

My follow up question would be - When do you think that will happen?

[StrandOne]

You could say we have one 'professional' women's team in Canada, it operates on average a couple of weeks a year, it pays almost nothing, and yet every girl dreams of it.

I sure hope you're not speaking of any of the W-League teams. They are so decidedly NON-pro that NCAA deems it ok to participate and maintain "amateur" status. WPS is the only pro women's league in N. America and Canada doesn't have a team... yet.

[StrandOne]

There are soccer opportunities in leagues and school both home and abroad. Find the best competition you can and make a name for yourself, achieve greatness and continuously demonstrate that you can play the game at a world class level against elite players.

I think many would say that there isn't a single CIS w soccer program in existence that cold hold its own against an NCAA Top 32 team. With Simon Fraser U leading the defection to NCAA competition, we may witness the extinction of the CIS in our era. Law of the Jungle. Whatevs. In the meantime, last time I checked USA is ranked #1 in women's soccer (soon to be overtaken by Germany with Brasil not far behind). The NCAA + WPS are a farm team system for the #1 ranked national side IN THE WORLD. If you want to play with / against the best, it sorta goes without saying that you need to be in the US. Being a star @ UManitoba won't likely help you get onto the u20 national team... unless you spend your summers on a WPS team (happily NOT forfeiting a day of eligibility in CIS). I'm not even sure what playing for th Toronto Lynx gets ya. You gotta head South. For men, you gotta head to your parent's home country to try out for a club... at age 15.

[StrandOne]

Sadly though many good players get de-motivated and broken when they are left out of the "regular" rise to the top of an Elite player in Canada. Persistence is the key.

Sometimes it's WHO YOU KNOW or WHO KNOWS YOU that gets you where you want to go. Canadians don't have much serious exposure to NCAA-style recruiting. Apart from the annoying parents who like to throw their weight around, very few Cdns USE THE INTERNET to GET NOTICED by soccer people at the top of the food chain. It's not that hard-- set up a YouTub channel. upload clips of your games. send NT coaches a brief email now & then pointing them to film. ask what they want to see. interview opposing team coaches. ask NT coaches how they think you can improe / be an asset to the NT program. Doing all that is not nearly as hard as all the time & energy invested in playing at the NT level. But that's what separates the "good" from the "great" players. Do all that it takes-- grades. hard work. exposure.

[StrandOne]

Yes, I've seen NTC visit/scouting dates posted online. Great. Who cares? NTC players know this in advance. Nobody else has access. Why tell us at all? Salt in the wound !! :mad:

Yes, I agree that visits by an NT head coach should have a coach info / seminar component. The trickle-down affect is real. Dialogue is good. Developing relationships is vital to healing a NATIONAL SPORT GOVERNING ORG. But such visits could also be an opportunity to INVEST in non-elite players. Inspire them too!

[navycyr]

Yes, I agree that visits by an NT head coach should have a coach info / seminar component. The trickle-down affect is real. Dialogue is good. Developing relationships is vital to healing a NATIONAL SPORT GOVERNING ORG. But such visits could also be an opportunity to INVEST in non-elite players. Inspire them too!

I think un-recognized elite players would be a more appropriate term than non-elite . Not only would it offer an opportunity to those who were ignored to show their talent but by the same token it would certainly motivate those attending NTCs to show they deserve to continue to be considered amongst the best players in the country. One of NTCs problems is, once you get in or get tossed out, you are almost sure it will stay like that. Players in don't feel the pressure to work harder to preserve their status and players out get demotivated knowing doors are closed forever to them notwithstanding whatever they may accomplish.

[The Ref]

I think un-recognized elite players would be a more appropriate term than non-elite . Not only would it offer an opportunity to those who were ignored to show their talent but by the same token it would certainly motivate those attending NTCs to show they deserve to continue to be considered amongst the best players in the country. One of NTCs problems is, once you get in or get tossed out, you are almost sure it will stay like that. Players in don't feel the pressure to work harder to preserve their status and players out get demotivated knowing doors are closed forever to them notwithstanding whatever they may accomplish.

Sounds very true indeed. We owe this inconsistency about the fate of players to Holger Osieck who issue the ruling that for players to be considered for national duty they had to come from NTC, thus eliminating other venues. The intention at the time was to erradicate the private academies.

[Richard]

Any aspiring player who gives up the first time he/she doesn't make the cut into an NTC programme doesn't deserve to make it anyway. That's just one potential route to the top. Players who seriously want to be noticed must be pro-active and show initiative.

[StrandOne]

Any aspiring player who gives up the first time he/she doesn't make the cut into an NTC programme doesn't deserve to make it anyway. That's just one potential route to the top. Players who seriously want to be noticed must be pro-active and show initiative.

HEAR HEAR, Richard! I agree whole-heartedly. If at first you don't succeed... Being "the best" requires more dedication than most people realize. But that's why there are so few of them. THANK YOU, Richard. I couldn't have said it better.