Toronto FC roster?

[BrennanFan]

quote:Originally posted by Jason

I think it is inevitable that Toronto FC will get at least 2 or maybe even 3 aging Euro "name" players to cater the big ethnic communities in TO. I would think an Italian player is almost a certainty.

Jason

the question is: can deRosario and Roberto Baggio co-exist in the same midfield?

[matthew]

quote:Originally posted by KAS

How to build a Toronto FC roster:

1) Raid MLS for Canadians (would love DeRo - but doubt it)

2) Raid MLS for Americans(3) and other SIs

3) Raid USL1 for Canadians (Sutton for sure)

4) Find Canadians in Europe who can't move up (some in Norway)

5) If MLS raid fails, pay for 1-3 known Canadian vets from Europe

6) As usual, a couple of expensive old Euro-star has-beens to attract immigrant community

7) Fill in the rest with youth - NCAA draft + anyone useful at NTCs.

I know this sounds cold, but this is probably how they will do it. I would prefer skipping the "lets buy old Italian and Portuguese players to attract Eurosnob fans" strategy in favour of having higher quality Canadians on the team. I would also be more willing to accept a bad team for the first couple of years if it was full of young Canadians with promising futures. Since the MNT means the most to me, the extent of my interest in Toronto FC will be largely based on their impact on the MNT (hopefully positive), and their ability to develop Canadian youth players.

I agree more or less.

I’m just thinking out loud, so hopefully this isn’t too long. But let’s break it down into specifics.

1) I don’t think DeRo is feasible, for as much as we would want to, I’m not sure TFC has the bargening chips to swing the deal. Even top pick in the entry draft and an allocation may not be enough depending on the kind of calibre underclassmen enter the draft. The only scenario I’ve heard that makes some sense is a three-team deal that sees New England ship Clint Dempsey home to Texas as he takes a massive raise on his $30K a year and doesn’t fit NE’s cap, Toronto ships top pick and an allocation to NE and Houston sends DeRo north. Dempsey and DeRo are near or at par and Dempsey isn’t an SI and is from Texas. And NE is going to have to off-load some guys because they have a lot of good players making peanuts and the other shoe has to drop eventually. That being said I wouldn’t be keen to part with Dempsey no matter the price.

So that leaves: Onstad, Serioux, Jazic, Stewart and maybe KOA and Brennan . . .

I’m not of the school of thought that Sutton is a lock to be with TFC, but throwing money at Onstad is better spent on securing Sutton. I don’t think anyone would argue that.

If they’re after Brennan, there’s not much reason to go after Jazic. Sure they could play at the same time, but can you afford to spend six figures (I’m assuming) on two guys who are the same age (at or maybe just past their prime) who are fairly similar. Esp since you might have to give something up to get Jazic if he’s under contract with LA.

I’d focus on Serioux and get either Brennan or Jazic. I think Jack Stewart if feasible provided we can insure that he’s not an SI. I don’t think they gain anything by trying to snag Ugo Ihemelu. He may not be an SI, but he’s not Canadian and I don’t think LA would just let him go.

6) I agree that they will likely go after a few Euros who have at least name value. And I do think that this will kill any budgetary hope of landing more than one (Radzinski anyone?) name Canadian heading towards the end of his career. Even with the looser salary cap rules, they don’t have a lot of cap money to play with.

If you look at a lot of teams third and fourth SIs, they’re not exactly name guys and may not even be quality. Many teams don’t fill all of their SI spots because they can’t find anyone worthwhile. Some of these guys are more of the Tony Caig/Nikki Vignjevic/Mauricio Vincello level of foreign import. Which is fine, but aren’t exactly a draw.

3) There are definitely some USL guys that can play and start in MLS. The problem is that many of them are defenders. If you’re looking at Serioux, Jazic and/or Brennan and maybe Stewart or Ihemelu then how many of Pizolitto, Gervais, Braz or Menezes can you use. Esp if Reda, Pozniak or Hughes are Euro-based possibilities.

4) The Canadians in Europe is what most interests me because I’ve been debating for a year about this and I’m really curious how it shakes down. I don’t think there will be a lot of Canadians returning.

One is money, two is ambition and three is uncertainty of talent.

The influx of good Canadians players to MLS makes me believe this more. I thought they could afford one or two solid Cdn internationals and one bigger name and maybe one or two fringe guys. But the solid names (Serioux, Jazic, Brennan) are already in the league. I thought Reda had a shot to be in that group.

Now if they decide not to spend money on SIs that someone has heard of, then things may be different. Or if they spend big money on a Beckham rule SI and then focus the other three on younger guys, maybe CONCACAF talent, then maybe they can pick up another solid Canadian international.

How many of the younger guys are going to want to come back. I agree that living in Toronto is probably preferable to the outreaches of Norway or wherever, but do Grande, Bernier, Ademolu, Stamatopoulos, Gerba want to come back? Do they feel like a good MLS career is a springboard to what they want out of their career. Financially it doesn’t seem to be a step up and as far as wanting to play at the highest level possible, is being in MLS preferable to the top flight in Norway or Sweden? I’m not sure.

Then there’s Reda, Pozniak, Hughes, Rhian Dodds and a few others who may be in situations more amiable to moving back. Now I think Reda is good enough and Pozniak is likely as well. But who’s to say if the others (say any one of Papa Lombard guys in Hungary or Stathis Kappos) are in fact good enough for MLS.

3) I think there will be some USL guys that will find a home on Toronto and there’s definitely some starters there, but I’m curious on cost and availability.

2) I think getting good MLSers is pretty critical to on field success. At least early. The biggest thing is that you have a standard to compare them to. There will be guys available in the expansion draft (assuming there is one) who have shown they can play in MLS. Can Dodds play in MLS? Can Patrick Leduc? Biello? Cann? Matondo? If the price isn’t crazy I think this is where the depth guys should come from because they’re more financially feasible than bringing too many Euro-based guys back.

7) I think TFC will get a starter if not a star with the top pick. The thing about MLS is that often NCAA picks make an immediate impact. Even their second pick could be a starter as well. Then they may have some trade leverage down the road.

They need good young guys. If LA has KOA’s rights, they dropped a huge ball. I agree with Jason that Calgary FC had a great core group of young guys, but they tried to take the whole group and make the jump at once. And they brought in Euros (esp. some of the English guys) who couldn’t hack it instead of getting guys who had established the fact that they were A-League callibre. With the reserve league, Toronto has time to work with these young guys and give them some games, but not count on them.

But actually locking up the top talent, even the really young top talent I think is where the core of the team will lie in 4 or 5 years. Esp. guys from the GTA.

I’m curious what path they take and how it works out.

cheers,

matthew

[Juby]

quote:Originally posted by BrennanFan

yes

im not saying they suck, just that their best days are behind them. serioux is not international quality, and the others are on their way out of the MNT. All these guys will be fine for Toronto FC. Its just that MLS was always billed as if it would contribute something positive to the MNT, and i just dont see that happening. MLS should be a springboard to bigger things for up and comers, not a place for misfit pros to continue to pick up a cheque as long as they can.

that said, i will be the first to buy a Toronto FC Brennan jersey.

Well 1) Hooray for weeed

2) Dero could be said to have some slight has beeniness, cause he's got all the talent but he's never been able to refine it into a destructive force for the MNT, it's like your watching and thinking, "wow, that guys good, if only he seemed to contribute to the team" like he tries but I don't think he's ever had the hand in winning us a game. for houston and san jose yes, but that's a pretty low roof.

3) Serioux however I think has been one of the bright lights in our MNT in past year, he always seems to be playing his A-game and standing toe to toe with the best as a ball getter in midfield.

[dbailey62]

quote:Originally posted by Juby

2) Dero could be said to have some slight has beeniness, cause he's got all the talent but he's never been able to refine it into a destructive force for the MNT, it's like your watching and thinking, "wow, that guys good, if only he seemed to contribute to the team" like he tries but I don't think he's ever had the hand in winning us a game. for houston and san jose yes, but that's a pretty low roof.

That's not "has-been", that's "unfulfilled potential".

db

[Juby]

quote:Originally posted by dbailey62

That's not "has-been", that's "unfulfilled potential".

db

Maybe not hasbeen (although "slight beeniness" isn't to strong) but definatly unfullfilled potential for the MNT, he always impresses but he's also a large part of our striking scoring drought because he both isn't doing it and isn't making the winning play. Maybe it's a bit of julio baptista syndrome. I have never seen anyone hit the post more then baptista, he always is a bright light on an often bland real madrid lately (Guti and Ramos were wicked this year too) but he never did what won games for them, it was like everyone was willing for him to score but so much bad lack, and at the end of the day, they probably would have been better without a great game from a great player. Dero kinda pushes that for unfullfilled potential especially being in mid-late 20's he doesn;t have much time to get in tune with some luck. Heres hoping he does it cause he's a great player but I've got to see him do a huge defender destroying run and actually finish for canada.

[Grizzly]

One of DeRo's biggest problems is he scores the amazing backflip type of goals but can't score the ones he should score when he has a clear shot on net.

[Cheeta]

Yeah. Once or twice a year.

Too greedy, or too adventuress with the ball when he shouldn't be. Only ever seems to pass to another attacker if he's trapped and even then, the pass comes too late. Squanders more developing opportunities than he creates and must just piss off everybody who plays with him (on the NT anyway) as there seems precious little point in supporting him outside of any role other than as a distraction for the defenders.

Harsh, maybe too harsh but that's how I've seen it to date. It's been written that he's turning into something quite different recently from playing up the gut, and maybe he is. Don't know. Haven't seen it. But if he has that's great. That's the way she goes. Maybe he's just a late bloomer.

Not sure if he'll end up in Toronto or not. Would actually be kind of surprised if he did. At least if it happened next year anyway.

Speaking of surprised, that's exactly what I'll be if TFC doesn't blow their salary cap right out of the water. But we'll see. Very little if any shop floor management in place at this point. At least that I've heard.

[KAS]

quote:Originally posted by matthew

1) I don’t think DeRo is feasible, for as much as we would want to, I’m not sure TFC has the bargening chips to swing the deal.

Although it is not as easy in MLS as in other leagues, a player's desire to leave is still hard to ignore. If DeRo wants to come to Toronto, a deal can be struck. Since other MLS teams are unlikely to touch the Canadian kids in the NCAA draft, TFC can trade their first pick as part of a deal knowing that the Canadians will still be there for them.

quote:I’m not of the school of thought that Sutton is a lock to be with TFC, but throwing money at Onstad is better spent on securing Sutton. I don’t think anyone would argue that.

Sutton is the best choice from inside North America. Onstad is fine as a back-up for a couple of years if he is cheap. Offering him the keeper-coach position (he does have coaching ambitions) could get him as 2nd keeper for very little in player salary. Worth a try, but unless someone comes home from Europe, Sutton is still tops.

quote:If they’re after Brennan, there’s not much reason to go after Jazic. Sure they could play at the same time, but can you afford to spend six figures (I’m assuming) on two guys who are the same age (at or maybe just past their prime) who are fairly similar. Esp since you might have to give something up to get Jazic if he’s under contract with LA.

I’d focus on Serioux and get either Brennan or Jazic. I think Jack Stewart if feasible provided we can insure that he’s not an SI. I don’t think they gain anything by trying to snag Ugo Ihemelu. He may not be an SI, but he’s not Canadian and I don’t think LA would just let him go.

TFC should get as many current and likely future MNT members as possible. You get who you can get. If you are unable to get guys of very different ages and positions, then fine - get Brennan and Jazic. You can find room for both on your team, and any Canadian players who are good, affordable, and available will be welcome.

quote:6) I agree that they will likely go after a few Euros who have at least name value. And I do think that this will kill any budgetary hope of landing more than one (Radzinski anyone?) name Canadian heading towards the end of his career. Even with the looser salary cap rules, they don’t have a lot of cap money to play with.

I hope they don't get old Euros, but if guys like Figo and Del Peiro are in reach, then the MARKETING people at MLSE might over-rule the coaching staff. A good strong manager who will tell the suits to stuff it would be nice to see. As would Radz and De Vos to help the youngsters for the first couple of years.

quote: 3) There are definitely some USL guys that can play and start in MLS. The problem is that many of them are defenders. If you’re looking at Serioux, Jazic and/or Brennan and maybe Stewart or Ihemelu then how many of Pizolitto, Gervais, Braz or Menezes can you use. Esp if Reda, Pozniak or Hughes are Euro-based possibilities.

4) The Canadians in Europe is what most interests me because I’ve been debating for a year about this and I’m really curious how it shakes down. I don’t think there will be a lot of Canadians returning.

One is money, two is ambition and three is uncertainty of talent.

How many of the younger guys are going to want to come back. I agree that living in Toronto is probably preferable to the outreaches of Norway or wherever, but do Grande, Bernier, Ademolu, Stamatopoulos, Gerba want to come back? Do they feel like a good MLS career is a springboard to what they want out of their career. Financially it doesn’t seem to be a step up and as far as wanting to play at the highest level possible, is being in MLS preferable to the top flight in Norway or Sweden? I’m not sure.

Then there’s Reda, Pozniak, Hughes, Rhian Dodds and a few others who may be in situations more amiable to moving back. Now I think Reda is good enough and Pozniak is likely as well. But who’s to say if the others (say any one of Papa Lombard guys in Hungary or Stathis Kappos) are in fact good enough for MLS.

3) I think there will be some USL guys that will find a home on Toronto and there’s definitely some starters there, but I’m curious on cost and availability.

There are a few good USL players - Sutton being my first choice. The problem of course, is Saputo and Kerfoot. If they have their guys locked-up for a few years, then they can really make MLSE suffer. They could force MLSE to pay big - knowing that MLSE has the money - and make a great profit, or they could outright refuse to deal and hope that TFC sucks from a lack of depth. Saputo's anger, and Kerfoot's desire to eventually get into MLS under better terms, could play a role in all this. Let the backroom brawl begin!

As for guys in Europe coming back, I think some will. The guys in Norway's top division will want to stay there for the money, Euro competition, and the greater chance of moving to somewhere bigger. But there are Canadians one level below in Norway who should be easier targets. For some guys in Europe, the security of a nice long contract in Toronto, and the chance to be home with family, will look very tempting.

quote: They need good young guys. If LA has KOA’s rights, they dropped a huge ball. I agree with Jason that Calgary FC had a great core group of young guys, but they tried to take the whole group and make the jump at once. And they brought in Euros (esp. some of the English guys) who couldn’t hack it instead of getting guys who had established the fact that they were A-League callibre. With the reserve league, Toronto has time to work with these young guys and give them some games, but not count on them.

But actually locking up the top talent, even the really young top talent I think is where the core of the team will lie in 4 or 5 years. Esp. guys from the GTA.

I would support the youth movement. I would accept a couple of bad seasons from a young team that was looking to the future and building good young Canadian talent. Someone like KOA is a good start. The NCAA and the NTCs will be heavily scouted I'm sure. I would also grab some of the young Italian-Canadians in Serie C1/2 or D as a better alternative to an old expensive Italian star.

[Guest Jeffery S.]

If I knew who Dero's agent was, I would write him to have him offered to Spanish club Gimnastica de Tarragona, just promoted to top flight, and looking for a striker. I think he could definitely make a contribution, and think he is ready to make the jump.

[KAS]

quote:Originally posted by Jeffrey S.

If I knew who Dero's agent was, I would write him to have him offered to Spanish club Gimnastica de Tarragona, just promoted to top flight, and looking for a striker. I think he could definitely make a contribution, and think he is ready to make the jump.

As much as TFC fans want to see DeRo in Toronto next year, a move to Europe could be fantastic for him. BTW, if we are talking about clubs in top leagues who are desperate for a striker (and there is a shortage of good ones), then nothing beats the desperation at Newcastle! Of course, they need someone really good, and DeRo is as much an offensive Mid (conflict with Duff?) as a pure striker.

Still, scoring a goal against Chelsea is tough to do, and that's exactly what EPL teams want from their stikers. His transfer fee would be cheap compared to euro-based stikers.

[Champs]

This would probably be the best to squad to market the Toronto FC soccer team.

GK: Greg Sutton (Canada)

LB:Ante Jazic (Canada)

LCB:Jason Devos (Canada)

RCB:Gareth Southgate (England

RB:Adam Braz (Canada)

LM:Jim Brennan (Canada

LCM:Sérgio Conceição (Portugal

RCM:Jaime Dodds (Canada)

RM:Justin Mapp (American)

F:Dwayne DeRosario (Canada)

F:Roberto Baggio (Italy)

Subs:

Nevio Pizzolito (Canada)

Gabriel Gervais (Canada)

Tony Menezes (Canada)

Rocco Placentino (Canada)

Alim Karim (Canada)

[Daniel]

I think you're overreaching with those former internationals.

[bettermirror]

champs where in the world do you get those names from!? baggio! conceicao! southgate! especially since southgate is coaching middlesbrough and baggio has been retired FOR YEARS! wow, that was a funny post. needed that.