Paddy Posted September 9, 2004 Share Posted September 9, 2004 ...as the old saying goes, "If you can't beat em', join em." Seriously, as these are the teams we have to beat, we should get a coach that can show us how to beat them. European and Canadian coaches (with the exception of Waiters) have all failed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Canadienfan Posted September 9, 2004 Share Posted September 9, 2004 Sounds like a idea worth exploring! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chet Posted September 9, 2004 Share Posted September 9, 2004 Yeah, someone who can teach our players to dive. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paddy Posted September 9, 2004 Author Share Posted September 9, 2004 quote:Originally posted by Chet Yeah, someone who can teach our players to dive. At this point, whatever it takes... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MikeD Posted September 9, 2004 Share Posted September 9, 2004 This is a great idea - it's not about teaching our players to dive, it's about getting a coach who will understand the refs in this conference. Excellent idea. That ugly bastard who coached Honduras and is now coaching Guatemala would be my first choice, since his experience with Honduras will have given him experience with a team made up mostly of European-based players and he has a track record of success. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bxl Boy Posted September 9, 2004 Share Posted September 9, 2004 Not a bad idea... But... (sorry of my ignorance of the Concacaf) are the best coaches in central Americal central americans ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
beachesl Posted September 9, 2004 Share Posted September 9, 2004 Well, the present coaches of Guatemala and Honduras are Honduran. The coaches of Panama (doing great now) and Costa Rica are Colombian. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cheeta Posted September 10, 2004 Share Posted September 10, 2004 Ummm. No. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
redhat Posted September 10, 2004 Share Posted September 10, 2004 quote:Originally posted by beachesl Well, the present coaches of Guatemala and Honduras are Honduran. The coaches of Panama (doing great now) and Costa Rica are Colombian. Honduras and Guatemala prove that domestic coaches with great preparation will create more successful teams. Foreign coaches may or may not be the answer (ie. Bora, Troussier, Metsu), but prep time and friendlies are a must, regardless of the coach's nationality. I'm sure Canada would have been more successful in this WCQ, if they had a tour of El Salvador and Panama, or had as many friendlies as Guatemala this year. Games against Millwall and Hearts, Belize, and the Edmonton Aviators wasn't enough. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Ref Posted September 10, 2004 Share Posted September 10, 2004 How about an open competition for the coaching job. Take for instance, one coach from Canada, one from Central America, one from South America, one from Europe, etc. Have them submit a paper of how to develop soccer here, how to qualify, how to fund programs, how to establish a league, how to have friendlies, etc. Then let each candidate coach a group a upcoming players for a couple of weeks, play a couple of games and see who does better. Add to this their paper presentation, curriculum and interpersonal skills and make an appointment. It will not be fool proof but at least will have some on-field results to better judge. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Jeffery S. Posted September 10, 2004 Share Posted September 10, 2004 I think that the way to go is not necessarily Latin American, as with the exception of those with European experience, the coach will have to adjust a lot to our way of playing and type of players, and our culture too. In fact I don't think nationality is at all important, it is the concept of the game and level of experience, plus a few intangibles. For me the concept Yallop has in in principle okay, his experience is limited (and he is showing it, as doing little smart-azz improvisations and basically fiddling around is a sign of insecurity with what he is doing), and I thought his intangibles would be positive, but in the end have been very disappointed with that part of his contribution. I thought Yallop was a decent option as he has got results with the Quakes with a squad that was a bit short (few decent subs), he got good performances out of Onstad, he played a game where he tried to outscore opponents and could come back when down, thus an attacking mentality that in principle meant we'd at least enjoy ourselves. Sure, he had a few inspired players like Donovan who obviously can solve a lot of holes with a touch of talent, but in principle Canada should be using Radz this way. Also I thought he would be more tuned in to our reality, like not being able to go to league games regularly to watch our best players and scout. The fact is though he has had 8 months and did not take advantage of them. His signing was meant to break a negative inertia and save our qualifying campaign, and he has screwed up along with the CSA. We were given a bye in the first round and those two games were not properly replaced. We did not have a single decent friendly vs. Concacaf opponents, where almost all (except teams that are not in our group in the end) have a different style that takes time to learn to play against. When he did put the squad together for the key prep weeks (Wales to Kingston) he called a group that was about right (except my gripe about Aguiar, which I think is still a valid complaint), then when it has come to the key qualifying matches has not kept that group together, letting the B team prospects come in instead on the basis of two pre-season friendlies for British clubs. Meaning he changed his game plan in the critical moment, relying on who interests Dennis Wise over who has consistently shown competitive winning capacity over the past few years (I miss Brennan, Aguiar, and Klukowski on this squad). Let's not get fooled by finding Simpson or Peters can hold their own, pretty well any decent young player can hold their own on a squad of veterans, but that is not enough to win, as winning means having players that can take responsibility for the game on the pitch and do the job, not just do enough to not look embarrassing. I personally think we have limited resources to hire a top coach, but there are people, for example, from the ex-Yugoslavia that are excellent and could coach Canada well. I always think of Radomir Antic, still unemployed (doing radio commentary in Spain). In general they play good control football, value athletic and competitive players who they can get to play over their raw ability, they defend hard in organized fashion, work well on set plays. Also are great learning languages and are culturally very flexible. Bora is a fine example of this, but Antic played in England , respects that model, but would not be out of place preparing us for Latin American teams. I think all this is beyond the CSA, who really have no idea when it comes to thinking about HOW we need to play to get results. Institutionally they are doing okay (tournaments, some steps with stadiums), but don't respect the fans, and are not willing to make little efforts to create passion for the elite game in Canada (like setting up a Cup and getting the winner into Concacaf competitions, this is a huge failure on their part). They are followers, bureaucrats, were not able to set any overall priorities for the national team when Yallop came in (we are going to play all over Canada, we are going to take our team to every corner of the land, we are going to always look for the little advantages that will help us win -reduce travelling and play qualifiers in the East for example, or do little pressure tactics on Concacaf to get decent reffing- we are going to break the negative inertias that we saw with Holger). Yallop has failed with a very talented bunch of players in the pool, and the CSA has just sat back and watched. Both have fallen into the same negative dynamic we had a year ago under Holger, and if Yallop is not clear-headed or at least well-guided we could well lose the little gains we have seen in youth squads, in women too. As is, I say keep Yallop for now, but his next goal is to qualify for the Gold Cup and get us past the first round at least (I don't even ask for qualifying for the next world youth cup, as our qualifying group is tough). If that is not possible, then we are going to have to start again, once again. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Jeffery S. Posted September 10, 2004 Share Posted September 10, 2004 (posted twice, now deleting that one, sorry) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Winnipeg Fury Posted September 10, 2004 Share Posted September 10, 2004 quote:Originally posted by redhat Honduras and Guatemala prove that domestic coaches with great preparation will create more successful teams. Foreign coaches may or may not be the answer (ie. Bora, Troussier, Metsu), but prep time and friendlies are a must, regardless of the coach's nationality. I'm sure Canada would have been more successful in this WCQ, if they had a tour of El Salvador and Panama, or had as many friendlies as Guatemala this year. Games against Millwall and Hearts, Belize, and the Edmonton Aviators wasn't enough. You are bang-on ! What pisses me off the most is that we have to learn these lessons OVER AND OVER ! Canada did not hit the early exit due to our lack of talent, but due to our POOR PREPERATION. Yes, we were screwed against Honduras, but our preperation for Guatemala was inexcusable. This should have been our easiet match of the round if we were prepared. Guatemala is not as good as Canada, but they were well prepared. Canada has our players back from Europe TWO days prior to the match. Jet-lagged and unfamiliar with each other (as half had never played together) they stumbled through the must-win game and played as poorly as they were prepared. Dropping points at home means elimination and sometimes I wonder if that wasn't our plan when one looks at our second rate preperation. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Beaver Posted September 10, 2004 Share Posted September 10, 2004 Yes, a number of us voiced this concern prior to the game against Guatamala. Of course, it is hard to say who is to blame for the lack of preparation. Did Frank drop the ball and assume we were strong enough without a couple of games? Or did he fight for prep friendlies and hit the CSA wall? Or, was it simply a matter of logistics? How do we get players free for friendlies when they've just started their pro seasons? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Beaver Posted September 10, 2004 Share Posted September 10, 2004 Yes, a number of us voiced this concern prior to the game against Guatamala. Of course, it is hard to say who is to blame for the lack of preparation. Did Frank drop the ball and assume we were strong enough without a couple of games? Or did he fight for prep friendlies and hit the CSA wall? Or, was it simply a matter of logistics? How do we get players free for friendlies when they've just started their pro seasons? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
way2goeh Posted September 10, 2004 Share Posted September 10, 2004 Us coaches here in Mexico would love to coach Canada signed, nobody Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
canso Posted September 10, 2004 Share Posted September 10, 2004 The worst managers for Canada have been the Canadian ones... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paddy Posted September 10, 2004 Author Share Posted September 10, 2004 quote: Originally posted by Winnipeg Fury What pisses me off the most is that we have to learn these lessons OVER AND OVER ! Exactly...the eternal recurrence of Canadian soccer. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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