beachesl Posted May 26, 2004 Share Posted May 26, 2004 Group 8 13.06.2004: Kingston, Ontario CANADA; Richardson Stadium (16:30) CANADA – BELIZE R: Carlos BATRES (GUA) 16.06.2004: Kingston, Ontario CANADA; Richardson Stadium (19:00) BELIZE – CANADA R: Ted GORDON (TRI) Full schedule for round at: http://www.concacaf.com/view_article.asp?id=2536 Canadian Mauricio Navarro is refereeing the opening US-Grenada game at Columbus Crew Stadium. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
matthew Posted May 26, 2004 Share Posted May 26, 2004 Good find Beachesl. Ugggh not Blind As A Batres. It shouldn't matter though. He is a senior ref, so I should complain. We could have had some guy from Antigua or something. I'm hoping the Belizeans aren't divers and the Carribean refs (ie our Trinnie for the second game) don't usually buy that crap, but Batres may not do us any favours. cheers, matthew Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Dave Posted May 26, 2004 Share Posted May 26, 2004 Hopefully having Batres now makes it less likely we get him in the semis.... if we get by Belize that is. Ah well, Batres likely won't be able to get away with giving us more than a couple of red cards and maybe one penalty against due to Belize diving. I expect we should still be alright. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
beachesl Posted May 26, 2004 Author Share Posted May 26, 2004 Well, assuming that Guatemala is in the semis, we wouldn't get Batres anyway. And, assuming Trinidad will be in the hex (a certainty), we won't get Gordon in the hex if we make it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gian-Luca Posted May 26, 2004 Share Posted May 26, 2004 Any Concacaf refs outside of Canada, and perhaps the US, can never be good news. They almost always stink, and really badly as well. However, if we play to our potential against Belize not even the Refs can stop us winning, so we can't really worry about it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mattbin Posted May 26, 2004 Share Posted May 26, 2004 Soem notes on these refs... Batres has reffed matches for us twice; one was the 2000 GC final, and the other was a 0-0 draw in '96 against Panama for WCQ. He ejected Craig Forrest at 83' and Pesch at 65' in that match, but I know nothing more about it. This wasn't the match with the corner flag incident was it? matthew's post makes me think so... Ted Gordon does not appear to have reffed for our MNT before. Mind you, this "research" was done entirely on the match capsules on the CSA site, which often do not include the ref names. I was particularly interested in whether these guys officiated during the 2002 GC, but none of the refs were named in those capsules. Perhaps someone else knows where to pick up more info for those? Allez les Rouges, M@ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Metro Posted May 27, 2004 Share Posted May 27, 2004 quote:Originally posted by mattbin Soem notes on these refs... Batres has reffed matches for us twice; one was the 2000 GC final, and the other was a 0-0 draw in '96 against Panama for WCQ. He ejected Craig Forrest at 83' and Pesch at 65' in that match, but I know nothing more about it. This wasn't the match with the corner flag incident was it? matthew's post makes me think so... Ted Gordon does not appear to have reffed for our MNT before. Mind you, this "research" was done entirely on the match capsules on the CSA site, which often do not include the ref names. I was particularly interested in whether these guys officiated during the 2002 GC, but none of the refs were named in those capsules. Perhaps someone else knows where to pick up more info for those? Allez les Rouges, M@ The corner flag incident was against El Salvador at Swanguard, if I remember correctly. Can't remember the ref, however... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
matthew Posted May 27, 2004 Share Posted May 27, 2004 Yeah Pesch and the corner flag was the home hex game against ES at Swanguard (for some reason the match program is in the magazine rack in my bathroom). He obviously deserved red, but he'd been getting mauled by the ES back line (that thug Iraheta and the Croat guy, Vladimir Vicenevicic or whatever it was) and it wasn't getting called. Still a stupid thing to do and then we couldn't score against Jamaica a week later wthout him and the whole campaign went to ****. Anyway that wasn't the game that Batres butchered. it was the Panama game in panama which was one of the worst displays of officiating I've ever seen anywhere. It didn't really matter, we were in great shape for the hex already (he might have even qualified already), but it was still absurd. I thought we were going to have someone maimed and then we get guys sent off. I've blocked most of it out of memory, but I remember how angry people were on the Vees board at the time (which was early, early days, all six of us were incensed). I'm pretty sure we'll get refs from countries still involved. Like if the US is still around in the hex and we're playig Mexico we could get Brian Hall. I could be wrong though. I like Carribean refs. We need Peter Pendergast as often as possible. Wasn't it he who did the GC 2000 final? he did the tie with the Ticos and the Mexico win in that same tourney. I know the Yanks hate him, but he's always been good to us and never puts up with diving or shenanigans. Name another ref that's awarded us two PKs cheers, matthew Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gian-Luca Posted May 27, 2004 Share Posted May 27, 2004 Yes, it was Predergast that did the 2000 Gold Cup final. All things considered he's not too bad. Batres having done the 0-0 draw in Panama in 96 does not inspire much joy, as that was one of the blind pieces of officiating it's ever been my misfortune to witness. If Aguiar is still reading the forum he could probably add a few words in agreement on this one. I still have memories of Nick Dasovic taking a flying elbow to the throat in that match, with not even a foul called. It shouldn't matter against Belize though, as it's not like the crowd in Kingston will be intimidating the Ref to call things Belize's way. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grizzly Posted June 14, 2004 Share Posted June 14, 2004 What did you guys think about the reffing? I thought Batres was pretty decent and fair yesterday and didn't let the Belizean defenders mug our skilled players. It is obviously easier to referree such a match than one with two skilled teams playing before a huge crowd but I think we have to give credit where it is due. He may have been poor in past matches for our teams but was fine yesterday. Hopefully this continues throughout qualifying as we have certainly seen some poor referring displays in previous years. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Peschfan Posted June 14, 2004 Share Posted June 14, 2004 The first half I thought he was way to leniant. More Belize players could have seen yellow, also that was a blatant push on radzinski and was a clear cut penalty. I dunno how that was not caled. The second hallf was a bit better but a couple of questionable challenges by Belize went unnoticed and unpunished. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
devioustrevor Posted June 15, 2004 Share Posted June 15, 2004 I wouldn't be too concerned with Refs from the US, Mexico, Trinidad, or Jamaica. But after that you have to assume they have first-hand knowledge of extreme crowd violence and as such are more likely to cave to crowd intimidation. Personally I think Jack Warner should ask FIFA for money to hire and train full-time professional refs for CONCACAF. Also volunteer our refs and linesmen for International friendlies to get them more International experience. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mattbin Posted June 15, 2004 Share Posted June 15, 2004 The shove on Radz and what really, really, REALLY looked like a handball from the stands around the 10 min mark were both missed, apparently, by ol' Blind-as-a-Batres. In fact they were also missed by our intrepid Sportsnet team, who were struggling to explain FIFA rankings when the handball occurred. Didn't bear mention because, well, they were talking about the FIFA rankings. I think the commentary was at a similar level when Radz was tackled Terry Tate style. All in all Batres seemed okay, but in a closer game I wouldn't trust him. In fact I wouldn't trust him to button his shirt correctly. Luckily his shirt didn't factor into the match either. Allez les Rouges, M@ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ditty Posted June 15, 2004 Share Posted June 15, 2004 Keep in mind that according to the Laws of the Game, the ball hitting a player's hand does not in itself constitute "handball." The key word in the law is "intentional" handling of the ball. Remember USA-Germany in 2002 when the ball hit Frings' hand on the goalline? The ref waved play on and was backed up by FIFA. He correctly judged the play to have been "ball to hand" and not "hand to ball". It's one of those tough discretionary calls for an official. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cheeta Posted June 15, 2004 Share Posted June 15, 2004 Yeah, hand ball. Tried explaining the nuances of it to the all the nephews. Went on for a bit and then gave up and settled for ice cream and cokes. Trying to coach the Little One into passive-aggresive-shirt-pulling, shoulder bumps and the always popular "insidental obstruction". Not quite getting her head around the It's not cheating if the ref don't whistle it part. And Sometimes you'll need to cheat and need to get caught cheeting scenarios. Ah, well. She'll learn. They always do. Oh yeah. The ref'ing was a bit dodgy. Bit lazy. Bit generous. On Wednesday, as Canada disects Belize while strolling it's going to get worse. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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