Canada vs Germany [R]

[kclee]

quote:Originally posted by Gian-Luca

Canada is now behind the Japan 8-ball though when it comes to goal differential. We are minus 3, they are plus 6. We have to pummel, rather than simply defeat, Argentina & hope that Germany pummels Japan to help even things out a bit. Otherwise we could go into the match against Japan having to win with Japan needing just a draw to go through. That late goal we gave up could be a killer.

Expect Canada to beat Argentina by double digits. Don't be surprised if it ends up 11 or 12 goals.

[leekoo]

quote:Originally posted by Gian-Luca

I have to agree largely with Reza on the Pellerud comments. I was shocked down to my toenails to see Latham stay in the match instead of Lang, as she obviously looked tired and unable to chase down the long balls (an ability which is key to the Pellerud style of play). Can't understand why more fresh legs weren't put on in the second half, even just to stem the tide (you never know when goal differential will be the decisive factor in advancing to the next round).

he made one change, why ... nothing on the bench ...

some were hurt (moscato, hermus) ... some were too old, too slow (burtini)... some were too young (andrews, consolante) ... some were keepers (macleod, swiatek ... why did he dress 3 keepers, germans had 2)

[Auger9]

remember the gold cup? erin mcleod was called back to school so we were left with 1 keeper. Not that it'll happen again, but you can never be too prepared. LeBlanc got a yellow card, she also got ran over by a giant german. 1 more incident like either of those in that game woulda left her to be taken out.

[ray]

Simple ... Germany were much more comfortable with the ball. They could pass it effectively. Canada resorted to "kick and chase" too often. Canada lost.

Even Pelerud's usefulness to the WNT has come to an end just as Osieck's ran out with the men. The sooner the CSA insist on coaches that will emphasize posession football, the better. Skill and thought must reign over raw athleticism.

I predict Canada will advance from their group but not much further.

[Gian-Luca]

quote:Originally posted by leekoo

he made one change, why ... nothing on the bench ...

some were hurt (moscato, hermus) ... some were too old, too slow (burtini)... some were too young (andrews, consolante) ... some were keepers (macleod, swiatek ... why did he dress 3 keepers, germans had 2)

If we agree that those players aren't good enough to play, then he shouldn't have called them. Also, what then has happened to all this great depth & options that everyone was talking about....

In any event, I think Morneau & Burtini could have helped, even if only for 30 minutes.

[mtlfan]

Imagine what The German press would say if their National would have not killed a wounded team.

We can debate Pellerud's competance all we want, I only care about what Hooper thinks.

The real problem is depth, which Pellerud thought he had up until Chapman got injured, follow that with the rest of them and that's it, he's screwed.

He's plan is out the door. He can only improvise. Imagine if the Germans had to use Prinz on the back line.

Winning this tournament was a 100 to 1 longshot, and for very good reasons they latter dropped to 45 to 1 but still France was at 25-1.

Starting all the teenage players,Dennis,Matheson, Timko,and Lang was the best news for Germany.

[Reza]

Hey Ref,

FYI, I have always been critical of Pellerud. No personal beef, but playing crap football isn't going to get anyone very far. 0 multiplied by any number is 0 and when you put 0 emphasis on ball handling, then 0 is what you get. That is against any decent opponent.

You can go to my posts as far back as Women's U-19 World Cup (because Pellerud sets the tone for the whole program). Every team in that tournament played with a lot of purpose except for about two or three and one of them was Canada. The only challenge other teams had was they were not all as fit or athletic or strong. But when it got to teams like USA, Brazil and Germany, they were definitely way ahead technically and they could more than hold themselves against opponents that were not as skillful but just athletic.

My only thought is that while we have time in women's soccer, might as well endorse modern football!!!

[Auger9]

good points by reza bout u19. But remember, canada made it to the finals. 2 years prior to that tournament when that team had just begun, they sucked, they were one of the worst teams out there.

Pellerud's confusing me though. When he led Norway to win the WWC in 95, they played beautiful soccer. Compare this canadian team to that of two, three years ago, there is a difference. May not seem like it, but the team has come a long way, there's only so much you can do. Only 5 of our players are playing professionaly. One is a keeper, the other one got injured therefore out of the WC. Almost the entire german squad plays pro. We still have a player in highschool!

The only thing i didn't like about pelleruds tactics this game was when he took out Lang. First half we had 2 strikers (Latham and Sinclair) Lang was 1 of 4 mids. We all know that is our weakest spot. Why then would he take her out in the 2nd half. Plus, he opted to go for 4-5-1 formation in the second. Is that not confusing to anyone else...

[leekoo]

quote:Originally posted by mtlfan

Imagine what The German press would say if their National would have not killed a wounded team.

We can debate Pellerud's competance all we want, I only care about what Hooper thinks.

The real problem is depth, which Pellerud thought he had up until Chapman got injured, follow that with the rest of them and that's it, he's screwed.

He's plan is out the door. He can only improvise. Imagine if the Germans had to use Prinz on the back line.

Winning this tournament was a 100 to 1 longshot, and for very good reasons they latter dropped to 45 to 1 but still France was at 25-1.

Starting all the teenage players,Dennis,Matheson, Timko,and Lang was the best news for Germany.

absolutely ... depth & experience ...

why did he need all these young players ... because he had nobody with experience (only a few players left from the 1999 team)...

ByTheWay

some people i know do not think much of morneau (too small, only 1 dimension to her game)

leblanc looked very soft, i wonder if she is the real choice in nets or did she simply have a bad game (she really has a strong foot, normally she can send that ball way down field ... didn't happen yesterday)

[The Ref]

quote:Originally posted by Reza

Hey Ref,

FYI, I have always been critical of Pellerud...

My only thought is that while we have time in women's soccer, might as well endorse modern football!!!

You are probably right. I just never noticed criticism against Pellerud until now. Insofar as endorsing "modern football", that is exactly what we are playing. But hey! we lost, so what gives.

This is the problem, our players can't play that style with 100% efficiency yet due to inexperience and shortage of skill. But don't kid yourself, a more controlled style, will be even worst. Just think for a minute, what is the difference player by player between a Canadian girl and a German woman. It is not style, it is simply skill, craftiness, experience. How long has it taken for Charmaine to reach her plato, 15 years I believe. A long time, not because she is not suited, simply because we as a soccer nation, don't have enough soccer for all to play, no pro leagues, unsuitable youth competition, parents as coaches, etc. etc. If we could develop the type of player with lots of skill and finesse at a very young age, surely we can play a different style that may resemble a Brazil, or Germany, or even the US. Until then, we just have to make the best we can with what we got. Do you like Kara Lang? if yes, think what is what makes her so special, her physical strengh and shooting power.

[Auger9]

quote:Originally posted by The Ref

You are probably right. I just never noticed criticism against Pellerud until now. Insofar as endorsing "modern football", that is exactly what we are playing. But hey! we lost, so what gives.

This is the problem, our players can't play that style with 100% efficiency yet due to inexperience and shortage of skill. But don't kid yourself, a more controlled style, will be even worst. Just think for a minute, what is the difference player by player between a Canadian girl and a German woman. It is not style, it is simply skill, craftiness, experience. How long has it taken for Charmaine to reach her plato, 15 years I believe. A long time, not because she is not suited, simply because we as a soccer nation, don't have enough soccer for all to play, no pro leagues, unsuitable youth competition, parents as coaches, etc. etc. If we could develop the type of player with lots of skill and finesse at a very young age, surely we can play a different style that may resemble a Brazil, or Germany, or even the US. Until then, we just have to make the best we can with what we got. Do you like Kara Lang? if yes, think what is what makes her so special, her physical strengh and shooting power.

I couldn't agree with you more. But that's not to say we'll never be good enough. Take, for example, the US. The core group on that team is Mia Hamm, Lilly, Foudy, Fawcett etc. They've been playing together on that team since they were teenagers. The core group for our canucks would be Sinclair, Lang, Timko, Chapman, McLeod. There is no doubt in saying that these players now, are much better thatn those players were then. Sinclair has like 40 goals in 50 games...Lang scored her first and became a starter when she was 15...even mia hamm can't say she's done that. These players will no doubt be the greatest in the world at one point. canadian women's soccer is only just starting. There's more girls now that are getting serious about soccer because they know there's a national team, full scholarships, etc. Players on the canadian team now never knew that oppurtunity until it presented itself.

[Reza]

Well I have a lot of objections to that.

Canada was playing pretty crappy soccer last summer in the U-19 as well and I brought it up back then in the old board too, but most people were happy enough to bask in the joy of small wins and Terry Jones articles. The fact is that we were both at home and also didn't face any tough competition until Brazil in the semis and despite that, we rarely controlled the matches skillfully.

And this is at U-19 level where experience and all that stuff doesn't matter as every team was at about the same level of experience and expertise. The final of that tournament was a reality check. While US was composed and always tried to make good play, Canada relied on long balls and physical aspect of the game and towards the end the team was completely dead.

Now all these stories about how experienced this and that team doesn't hold when you talk about U-19 team and that's where I believe you could have seen the problems that plagued Canada last night.

The other point is also that we are talking about women's soccer here and considering the resources that Canada has and all, these kinds of scorelines and all these scrappy aimless football matches we see, should not even occur. Instead of finding excuses, the facts should be clear : Canada must be in the same level of USA, china, and Germany and possibly Norway and it is not. Therefore, we are doing something massively wrong and we should address it.

You can have these players kick the ball around aimlessly for another 10 years and by then the Americans and the rest of the pack will probably be running circles around them or you can actually look at this amazing talent pool you have (300,000 +) and start utilizing them properly.

[matthew]

I was a little surprised by the score, but frankly I think Germany will win the Cup. That doesn't mean they're the favourites as Gerry and Helen kept insisting (obviously they're not).

A lot of people seem to forget that we're a country who has never won a World Cup game. We're the youngest team in the tournament. Yes we should beat Argentina easily, but compare what Japan did to Mexico in qualifying to what we did to Mexico in our qualifier? We looked nervous and shaky. Hopefully we can make up the goal differential against Argentina or else we go into the Japan game needing a win and frankly it could go either way.

Am I the only one terrified that we'll lose Hooper for the Japan game due to a second yellow card. The officiating is usually pretty eratic at the WWC and Hooper isn't going to shy away from any tackles.

I liked getting Mathison on the field, but I think it was a mistake starting Timko in the back. We missed her in the midfield and she battled well, but I think she looked like someone who had played a only a couple of times in the back. I don't know how long Morneau could have gone, but I still think she should have started.

I don't think Pellerud's tactics are that far off, it's just when you play them badly, it's going to look really ugly. We needed to get more players into the midfield and we needed to be far more compact. Quick balls out of the back can be useful, but only if you're winning the second balls. Our forwards we so isolated it didn't happen all night.

On the bright side I'm happy we didn't bunker when we were up.

I also disagree that these tactics are ruining our players. Timko and Moscato and Kiss and Mathison (by all indications) are fully capable of playing the ball to feet. They just aren't supposed to under Pellerud's system. I'm curious how some of them look in college, where they play a different style. What we lack is the ability to move off the ball and create space IMO.

cheers,

matthew

[red card]

I was at the game in Columbus, so based on watching Japan vs Argentina, Canada should finish 2nd.

Canada should have no problem with Argentina. It is only a question of how many more goals than Japan or will they reach double digits.

Second, Japan is quite skillful and quick but Canada has proven to dominate smaller teams physically. Japan barely got past Mexico to qualify, so Canada should beat Japan by a 2-0 or 3-1 score. 3 or 4 of Japan's goals were off spectacular headers which will not happen with Canada.

[The Ref]

quote:Originally posted by Reza

And this is at U-19 level where experience and all that stuff doesn't matter as every team was at about the same level of experience and expertise. The final of that tournament was a reality check. While US was composed and always tried to make good play, Canada relied on long balls and physical aspect of the game and towards the end the team was completely dead.

Now all these stories about how experienced this and that team doesn't hold when you talk about U-19 team and that's where I believe you could have seen the problems that plagued Canada last night.

The other point is also that we are talking about women's soccer here and considering the resources that Canada has and all, these kinds of scorelines and all these scrappy aimless football matches we see, should not even occur. Instead of finding excuses, the facts should be clear : Canada must be in the same level of USA, china, and Germany and possibly Norway and it is not. Therefore, we are doing something massively wrong and we should address it.

You can have these players kick the ball around aimlessly for another 10 years and by then the Americans and the rest of the pack will probably be running circles around them or you can actually look at this amazing talent pool you have (300,000 +) and start utilizing them properly.

Wow! everybody is entitled to an opinion and you have stated yours very well and very strongly. I just see things different, that's all. Probably because I grew up in South America where the young people that do play school and organized soccer and prosper beyond are only those with natural gifted skills. Soccer is a profession and if you don't have the tools you just don't waste time continuing with it because you will never make it to the pros. So somebody at the ripe age of 18-19 has played a lot of good level soccer and in addition has shall we say, natural skills. Add to this, good role models. Every kid is always trying to emulate somebody else moves. Regretably our youth system tends to be one of "participation" rather than "selection". Role models? we just collect autographs! If we add to this problem the fact that in all likelyhood there are many athletically talented players who drift to basketball, baseball, softball, hockey, etc. and are lost forever as good potential soccer players. Don't know the situation in Europe, but I would guess that soccer is the main course there as well.

[Auger9]

quote:Originally posted by red card

I was at the game in Columbus, so based on watching Japan vs Argentina, Canada should finish 2nd.

Canada should have no problem with Argentina. It is only a question of how many more goals than Japan or will they reach double digits.

Second, Japan is quite skillful and quick but Canada has proven to dominate smaller teams physically. Japan barely got past Mexico to qualify, so Canada should beat Japan by a 2-0 or 3-1 score. 3 or 4 of Japan's goals were off spectacular headers which will not happen with Canada.

Argentina in this tournament is kinda what canada was in the last two. Japan will be a battle at both ends, especially since that game will decide who moves on, unless ofcourse japan upsets germany, then we're screwd. We just need a good game against them. Tactics weren't the main issue against germany, our team played like crap and was nervous. Confidence level was too low, usually that's a huge advantage for us because no matter who we play, USA or Mexico, were always confident, that was lost against germany.

[Auger9]

articles:

http://canada.com/search/story.aspx?id=1c45712d-c8b6-4586-be54-9076f214f9b5

Canada vows to show the 'kind of team we are'

Women's World Cup: Lang, 'Maybe I was more nervous than I thought'

John Korobanik

Monday, September 22, 2003

COLUMBUS, Ohio - Members of Canada's women's soccer team spent yesterday licking wounds, clearing heads and trying to refocus after a disappointing showing in their opening World Cup game Saturday.

"There were a lot of down faces at the hotel last night," veteran Andrea Neil of Vancouver said following Canada's 4-1 loss to Germany. "We'll spend the rest of the day processing it, analyzing it; see how much we can learn from that game and then we must, as a team, put it behind us and focus on Argentina."

Canadian coach Even Pellerud put the team through what he calls a "recovery" practice yesterday and was pleased with the mood and the way the players reacted.

"The mood is where it should be," he said. "They are disappointed in themselves. They know they underperformed. I made them aware of the problems we have and this practice is just to get that game out of their brains and start over again."

The Canadians play Argentina on Wednesday and Japan Saturday and must win both games to ensure they advance to the quarter-finals. They shouldn't have a problem producing a win on Wednesday, but with Japan beating Argentina 6-0 on Saturday, goals become crucial because the goal differential is the first tiebreaker.

"First of all we need to beat them," Pellerud said of Argentina. "And then I will encourage my strikers and midfielders to attack as much as we can. The goal differential is the first tiebreaker but [if] we beat Argentina and Japan then we don't worry about that."

The players all appeared upbeat and having fun in practice. Pellerud suggested their recent successes may have played a role in their disappointing showing against Germany.

"Perhaps getting that first goal so early became a problem," he said. "Because of our recent success we started to take things lightly and perhaps the early goal enforced that thinking. And maybe the mental pressure of a big game was also a factor."

Now that many of the Canadians have experienced their first World Cup game, everyone is expecting a much improved performance from here on.

"We've lost before," said veteran defender Sharolta Nonen of Vancouver. "Our next game will show what kind of team we are, what kind of desire we have. We've been through a lot of ups and downs together, and even though we're a young team, we're still adults and in the World Cup so we just need to learn from the loss and move on."

Playing Argentina, clearly the weakest team in the four-country group, will provide Canada the opportunity to regroup, gets its game back together and regain whatever confidence they lost against Germany.

"The first game, there were probably lots of jitters, nerves," said Nonen, the stabilizing force in the injured-depleted defence. "But we have one game under our belt. It wasn't our best performance so we can only improve from there."

Kara Lang of Oakville, Ont., at 16 years of age the youngest Canadian and one of the youngest players in the 16-team tournament, probably expressed the feeling of many of the 14 Canadians who are playing in a World Cup for the first time. On the 20-player roster only Charmaine Hooper of Ottawa, Neil, Nonen and Silvana Burtini of Williams Lake, B.C., had previously played in a World Cup game. Keeper Karina LeBlanc of Maple Ridge, B.C., and Isabelle Morneau of Greenfield Park, Que., were named to previous teams but did not play.

"It was pretty nerve-wracking," Lang admitted. "I didn't think my nerves would be a hindrance at all, not to that degree, really. Looking back, maybe I was more nervous than I thought."

http://slam.canoe.ca/Slam/Soccer/WorldCup/Women/2003/09/22/199553.html

Shoot and shovel

Canada needs lots of goals to dig out of this Cup mess

By TERRY JONES -- Edmonton Sun

COLUMBUS, Ohio -- "O.K. girls, listen up.

"In the next one, we gotta go out there and win the first World Cup soccer game Canada has ever won, men's or women's, and win it by, oh, six or seven goals. Got it?

"We'd scored six goals in our combined history of women's World Cup games going into this year. Now we need that many in one. And we're playing Maradona's country, Argentina? Any questions?"

If you're a casual sports fan, a once-every-four-years soccer fan, and were completely oblivious to women's soccer until Christine Sinclair and Kara Lang came along last summer and grabbed your attention, you probably figure the Canadians might as well come home.

"We have to beat them and score a lot of goals just to be on the safe side," said captain Charmaine Hooper. "Six or more would be nice. It'll be great to finally get that first win after all these years, but we have to win decisively and then get ready for Japan.''

After a disappointing performance in losing their USA 2003 Women's World Cup opener 4-1 to No. 3-ranked Germany, Canada isn't suddenly a team in trouble in this tournament. But they just lost their wriggle room.

To get to the quarter-finals, Even Pellerud's 12th-ranked team now has to beat both Argentina and Japan or beat Argentina big and tie Japan.

GOALS FOR AND AGAINST

In the event of a tie in Group C standings, it comes down to goals for-against. With Japan beating Argentina 6-0, Canada is a minus nine they must make up Wednesday night before heading to Boston to play the Japanese on Saturday. Canada and Japan tied 1-1 four years ago.

The good news is Japan plays the Germans in the first game Wednesday so Canada will know how many, exactly, they'd need against Argentina, the world's 35th-ranked country, in the second game.

Despite his captain's comment, Pellerud doesn't want his team thinking like that.

Pellerud took his team to an Obetz, Ohio, practice facility yesterday and, despite the temptation to do a soccer version of a bag skate, took it easy on them.

"They are so disappointed by themselves. This was a recovery session. We have to get our brains back about us and start over again. We'll take them back and show them some things on the tapes. Then, when we're finished with the tape today, we'll probably burn it.

"What the tapes told us was that it was more about our performance than their performance,'' he said of the Germans. "Our pressure on the ball, which has been so great on this team for a year, was not there in that first game.

"I think there was a lot of mental pressure our players put on themselves because it was the World Cup. Kara Lang was very tired early. There's a lot of mental pressure when you're a kid,'' he said of the 16-year-old he subbed at the half with the score 1-1.

CHANGE IN FORMATION

Pellerud admitted taking Lang out and going from a 4-3-3 format to a 4-5-1 backfired on him when the Germans took a 2-1 lead in the first minute of the second half. But in a twisted sort of way, he said Canada scoring first might have backfired, too.

"We'd won so many games, had so much success on our way here, to go up 1-0 on Germany three minutes into the game maybe gave us a confidence we shouldn't have had. The first goal we scored, considering our recent success, probably created a problem.''

Pellerud's team came here with a 10-game unbeaten streak and with most of his players unfamiliar with losing to anybody on the world stage other than golden-goal gold-medal game losses to the U.S. in both the FIFAU-19 Women's World Championships and Gold Cup CONCACAF qualifying to get here.

Sinclair, who got her first World Cup goal in her first Cup game, said it's the old lose-a-game-learn-a-lesson thing. Pick yourself up. Get back in the game.

"We took it pretty hard.

''But the most important thing is to put that game behind us, use it as a wake-up call, and hope what happened will prove to have been good for us.

''Argentina is obviously a team we should beat. Japan is a very skilled team. But we feel confident we can beat both of them.''

Sinclair says the bottom line is simple.

"We have to get our act back together in four days, not wait four years.''