Gian-Luca Posted July 3, 2003 Share Posted July 3, 2003 I don't know Reza, I think I like our chances against the US better than against Costa Rica. Call it a hunch. Even the wolf can learn. Even the sheep can turn. Even the frog can become at last the prince. - Peter Hammill, Over (1977) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cheeta Posted July 3, 2003 Share Posted July 3, 2003 quote:Originally posted by mattbin About Neil's article... the one thing I am impressed with above all else is that he's obviously taking our concerns to heart. Every one of the concerns that are expressed on the V-Board(s)--Jazic, Aguiar, Pesch--has not only been confronted, but even taken up with Holger. Much as we might disagree with Holger's responses, we must appreciate that our concerns are being taken to the highest level. Thanks, Neil. Allez les Rouges, M@ Dead on. When has anyone ever asked Holger about his selections or more so in this case lack of selections or absences? Really can't think of any interview myself. Say this for Holger, he has no problem calling it like he sees it and I don't think that is so bad. I'm sure it dose rub some of the lads the wrong way but then, I suppose it's ment to. Just a little. I don't think anything he said was inaccuate either. Maybe a little over simplified but it sumed things up nicely. Sounds like Holgy's getting a little frustrated with players choosing club over country. Maybe more frustrated with being told by players which country matchs are "important enough to justify attenting". Me, I see both sides. Usually side with the players and well in this case. But I wonder sometimes. This Aguiar's question is beginning to interest me. Seems to have gotten a little under the German's skin. Hmph. "Minority of one" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MikeD Posted July 3, 2003 Author Share Posted July 3, 2003 quote:Originally posted by Gian-Luca I don't know Reza, I think I like our chances against the US better than against Costa Rica. Call it a hunch. Even the wolf can learn. Even the sheep can turn. Even the frog can become at last the prince. - Peter Hammill, Over (1977) If we finish second in our group, we'll most likely have to go through the US and then Costa Rica to get to the final. I'd much rather let them battle it out in the quarterfinal, while we face El Salvador or Martinique, then take on the winner in the semi. I can't wait for the 12th! Mike D Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
beachesl Posted July 3, 2003 Share Posted July 3, 2003 EXCEPTbcause of the playoff format, it would be impossible to meet the US in the semi-final. If we avoid The US in the quarter-final, we have to play the semi-final in Mexico City instead of Miami (against Mexico in the if they make it, against another from A or B if we don't). Don't forget the rule that the home side always gets the semi-final venue, as stupid as that is. A fanatic is one who can't change his mind and won't change the subject. -- Winston Churchill Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Warren in the UK Posted July 3, 2003 Share Posted July 3, 2003 Did I miss something? What Where is DeGuzman? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
beachesl Posted July 3, 2003 Share Posted July 3, 2003 quote:Originally posted by Warren in the UK Did I miss something? What Where is DeGuzman? His German club has pressured him not to go. He is not injured and was incredible against Germany. Our coach Holger Osiek claims that De Guzman is not interested in the Gold cup competition, but it may be a personality problem with the coach (as in the Pescholido situation). He may be being kept back on an understanding that he will be free for International dates starting in February for the CONCANAF World Cup Qualifying. Who knows? We may be lucky getting any Euro-based players at all. A fanatic is one who can't change his mind and won't change the subject. -- Winston Churchill Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
beachesl Posted July 3, 2003 Share Posted July 3, 2003 See excellent article by Neil Davidson of Canadian Press halfway down first page of this topic. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MikeD Posted July 3, 2003 Author Share Posted July 3, 2003 quote:Originally posted by beachesl EXCEPTbcause of the playoff format, it would be impossible to meet the US in the semi-final. If we avoid The US in the quarter-final, we have to play the semi-final in Mexico City instead of Miami (against Mexico in the if they make it, against another from A or B if we don't). Don't forget the rule that the home side always gets the semi-final venue, as stupid as that is. A fanatic is one who can't change his mind and won't change the subject. -- Winston Churchill Oh sh!t, you're right! This tournament is rigged even worse than I thought. This raises an interesting question: will we actually have a tougher route to the final if we win our group than if we finish second? If we win our group, we get the second placed team from Group C, likely El Salvador or Martinique (clearly an easier quarterfinal than if we have to play the Yanks), but then we play the semi-final in Azteca with Mexico as our likely opponent. On the other hand, if we finish second in our group, we likely face the US in the quarterfinal followed by an easier semi-final in Miami, likely against Colombia or Brazil. (Naturally, all of this assumes that the US will win Group C - if they finish second then we need to finish second in our group to avoid them.) This is such a screwed up system, there isn't really much of an incentive to win our group at all. Mike D Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Reza Posted July 3, 2003 Share Posted July 3, 2003 Playing Mexico in the Semifinals in Azteca is actually a good learning experience for next year and also 2005. It is a rare opportunity to become familiar with the environments that otherwise would have to be dealt with during qualifying. I think the key objectives have to be getting 5 games under the belt and some experience playing in Mexico for future. Plus winning as many to get the ranking into the 60s again. Reza Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gordon Posted July 3, 2003 Share Posted July 3, 2003 quote:Originally posted by Reza Playing Mexico in the Semifinals in Azteca is actually a good learning experience for next year and also 2005. It is a rare opportunity to become familiar with the environments that otherwise would have to be dealt with during qualifying. I think the key objectives have to be getting 5 games under the belt and some experience playing in Mexico for future. Plus winning as many to get the ranking into the 60s again. Reza Yeah. Try to WIN the tournament, not back in by having contenders knocked off by others. If you have to beat Mexico in Azteca or the US in Gillette makes no matter. I for one will be delighted with a semi-final match. Who and where does not matter to me. Beat C/R, Beat Cuba, Beat El Salvador/Martinique, beat Mexico in Azteca and beat Brazil/US/Columbia in Azteca. Hoist the Cup and strut for a couple of years. And tell everyone we did it with a B+ team The opinions expressed above are just that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mattbin Posted July 4, 2003 Share Posted July 4, 2003 quote:Originally posted by MikeD This is such a screwed up system, there isn't really much of an incentive to win our group at all. Mike D Sounds like someone's a-hankerin' for a coin toss! Allez les Rouges, M@ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Desigol Posted July 4, 2003 Share Posted July 4, 2003 Here's my starting XI from that squad (I know Holger and I aren't of a like mind, but what the hell.); -------------------------Onstad. -----Bent ----------- McKenna -------Devos -------- Kulkowski -----Stalteri ------- Bent --------- Imhoff ------- Nash ---------------------- Canizalez ----- Hume You don't win friends with salad! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andrew W Posted July 4, 2003 Share Posted July 4, 2003 You're really asking a lot of Bent. As for club v country. I take the players' side every time. All of the aforementioned like Brennan, DeGuzman, Tam, Pesch, et al have been good servants to the maple leaf. For Holger to question them is rediculous, but he's rediculous. "How you get so big eating food of this kind" - Yoda Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Jeffery S. Posted July 4, 2003 Share Posted July 4, 2003 Been mulling about the side for a few days now and as is the only absence that really bothers me is de Guzman. He really showed some amazing talent in the Germany game, he has a fine dribble, he can draw defenders into him and free up others. Love the tension he creates when he has the ball going forward. The kind of player we will miss given our on paper weak strike force. I have a lot of faith in McKenna as he has almost always scored for us when he is up front. I think he can do damage vs. both of the first rivals (though CRica has some decent central defenders), since he was close to embarrassing the Germans assigned to him (Kicker gave his marker the worst rating of all their players). He has better technique than folks give him credit for, can hold up the ball, though his short passing is lacking a bit (could improve still I'd say). Loved the way a little chip put Stalteri home free vs. Germany in spite of Paul being just offside. Though in the end the goal vs. Germany he could have scored as a defender going forward for a free kick, I'd still play him up front, with Xausa, and have Stalteri follow them forward in the middle. With McKenna it also makes sense to have a good crosser like Nash in there, though Hume could play in the same role as he did later on in the season for Tranmere, off hand forget the name of their striker, who I gather was fairly effective. Both right side I think. Without Brennan or Jazic we won't get too deep up the left I don't think, so that is where we can also be and should be stronger defending. So risk up the right and hope to be able to hold anyone coming at us up their left. Does Costa Rica have anyone particularly dangerous up their left wing? What our team would be with the inclusion of Radzinski, a central axis of De Vos, Stalteri, Tomasz, nice. But not yet. Make the ball run, so you don't have to. -Johan Cruyff Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
George Posted July 5, 2003 Share Posted July 5, 2003 Holger is our manager, not the agent for Brennan, de Guzman, Tam, Pesch, et al. His top priority should be getting us to the next World Cup. If I was in his place, I would be equally upset that these guys can’t see the importance of playing in the Gold Cup. The tournament itself might not be so prestigious, but the exercise is vital preparation for Germany. I don’t agree with Holger’s public venting, but we so rarely get to play and train together for long periods of time. During our last WCQ campaign chemistry was one of our most obvious shortcomings. The flippant”I will be there for qualifying” remarks made by some makes me shudder in fear. It takes more than just showing up for qualifying. Remember how T&T and Panama both didn’t get the memo that our players were better so we should win!! Ughh!! The club argument at this point of the season is silly. None of these players are at risk of losing their jobs!! We all saw JDG and Tam play, they have a lot of talent…they might suffer a little in the short term…but you can’t keep a good thing down!! Plus, if we go to Germany and show well, the guys will benefit from the exposure. "A pretty move, for the love of God." Eduardo Galeano Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Desigol Posted July 5, 2003 Share Posted July 5, 2003 quote:Originally posted by Andrew W You're really asking a lot of Bent. Silly me, I had him in twice. Well maybe Xausa in the middle. Thanks for reminding me. You don't win friends with salad! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Canuck Oranje Posted July 5, 2003 Share Posted July 5, 2003 While I don't blame Holger for being a little frustrated, I find his comments, re: de Guzman and Nsaliwa, a little flippant at very least. While I suspect cultural differences here may be leading some on this board to misinterpret some venting for problems between players and coach, it was the coach, himself, who suggested that he might not call the younger players in Germany to the Gold Cup in earlier comments. Bottomline is that WCQ has to be the top priority. For players like Nsaliwa and de Guzman, even their participation on the Olympic team may have to be sacrificed. Brasil has taken this approach with some of its younger players over the years. I don't recall whether young Dutch superstars of the past like Kluivert, Rijkaard, Gullit, Davids, Seedorf ever played for the Dutch Olympic team. I don't believe they did because of club commitments. We are a small country in the soccer world. We have an added problems in that we have distance to contend with (between club location and country) and no home league. I think as a nation, we really need to focus on one tournament, the World Cup. All other tournaments need to be considered as development tournaments. Yes, Holger's job is as a head coach of the Canadian National team. I know if I was in his position, I would be equally frustrated. But so long as he keeps his focus and continues to try to put the best team on the field possible for each tournament, he is doing that part of his job well enough. He needs to now focus on coaching the team he has for this tournament. Re: Nsaliwa and de Guzman (and Fernandez and Canizalez probably), I suspect Holger had some significant influence getting them the teams they are with. Don't underestimate the power of personal networks. Remember this guy use to work for the DFB (probably knows every coach of significance in Germany) and was Beckenbauer's right hand man in 1990. We can quibble about some of his coaching decisions but I think the Canadian program has benefitted substantially from Holger's network. Seriously, do you think we would have got the game with Germany if Holger wasn't the coach? Just some of my thoughts quote:Originally posted by George Holger is our manager, not the agent for Brennan, de Guzman, Tam, Pesch, et al. His top priority should be getting us to the next World Cup. If I was in his place, I would be equally upset that these guys can’t see the importance of playing in the Gold Cup. The tournament itself might not be so prestigious, but the exercise is vital preparation for Germany. I don’t agree with Holger’s public venting, but we so rarely get to play and train together for long periods of time. During our last WCQ campaign chemistry was one of our most obvious shortcomings. The flippant”I will be there for qualifying” remarks made by some makes me shudder in fear. It takes more than just showing up for qualifying. Remember how T&T and Panama both didn’t get the memo that our players were better so we should win!! Ughh!! The club argument at this point of the season is silly. None of these players are at risk of losing their jobs!! We all saw JDG and Tam play, they have a lot of talent…they might suffer a little in the short term…but you can’t keep a good thing down!! Plus, if we go to Germany and show well, the guys will benefit from the exposure. "A pretty move, for the love of God." Eduardo Galeano Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cheeta Posted July 5, 2003 Share Posted July 5, 2003 Sure am hoping Xausa has an excellent Gold Cup as he's playing for a job, but not at Livingston. Just spy'd that Dundee United's Derek Lilley has signed with Livi. Now as Xausa has been previously permited to talk with other clubs and the speedy Lilley just happens to play left forward I'd say this sort of amounts to the end of the end for David at Almondvale, especially with more signings on the horizon. Read somewhere a Falkirk rumor but would be disappointed somewhat were Xausa to go down. Might land on his feet in Scotland yet as he's got a pretty good reputation and a lot of years ahead of him but wouldn't mind seeing the man back home next year, but that's a long way off. "Minority of one" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Ed Posted July 5, 2003 Share Posted July 5, 2003 quote:Originally posted by Canuck Oranje While I don't blame Holger for being a little frustrated, I find his comments, re: de Guzman and Nsaliwa, a little flippant at very least. ..... Re: Nsaliwa and de Guzman (and Fernandez and Canizalez probably), I suspect Holger had some significant influence getting them the teams they are with. Don't underestimate the power of personal networks. Holger's connections have nothing to do with Tam and Julian joining those teams. Can't say either way for Fernandez or Canizales. Holger has had the youth teams in camps in Germany which I believe was where Canizales was scouted by Bremen. Fernandez was player of the tournament in a cup competition near Bremen, which had nothing to do with either Holger or the CSA last year which is probably where he was spotted. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Luis_Rancagua Posted July 5, 2003 Share Posted July 5, 2003 I viewed UK's Football-Tranfers website for any hot rumours on David Xausa, and it appears that Xausa may perhaps stay in Livingston after all. His name doesn't appear to be the target of any trade-offs to Falkirk nor any other club across the UK. quote:Originally posted by Cheeta Sure am hoping Xausa has an excellent Gold Cup as he's playing for a job, but not at Livingston. Just spy'd that Dundee United's Derek Lilley has signed with Livi. Now as Xausa has been previously permited to talk with other clubs and the speedy Lilley just happens to play left forward I'd say this sort of amounts to the end of the end for David at Almondvale, especially with more signings on the horizon. Read somewhere a Falkirk rumor but would be disappointed somewhat were Xausa to go down. Might land on his feet in Scotland yet as he's got a pretty good reputation and a lot of years ahead of him but wouldn't mind seeing the man back home next year, but that's a long way off. "Minority of one" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Jeffery S. Posted July 5, 2003 Share Posted July 5, 2003 quote: Holger's connections have nothing to do with Tam and Julian joining those teams. Can't say either way for Fernandez or Canizales. Holger has had the youth teams in camps in Germany which I believe was where Canizales was scouted by Bremen. Fernandez was player of the tournament in a cup competition near Bremen, which had nothing to do with either Holger or the CSA last year which is probably where he was spotted. I an say for Daniel that first off, you are right. He had two good games for Canada vs. Germany and then went for Oporto to a tournament and was voted best keeper, all in spring 2002. This is when he nailed a German agent, a fairly strong fellow who happens to have players in Bundesliga, at Ajax, knows Spain well enough. Going to Celta Vigo may not have had to do with the agent though, as teams in that region of Spain watch Portuguese players closely, the language Gallego is essentially old Portuguese mixed with Spanish. Dani simply wanted some playing time before the World Youth Cup and wasn't willing to wait things out at Celta. I think he erred, as his national team commitments are so great until Xmas that it is unreasonable to think he can hold down a starter's spot until then. In any case his agent went about looking for alternatives, and he also had other people offering him possible loans or transfers (one Spanish team that just promoted to 2nd division, for example). Simply put he was looking for games to help prepare the confidence factor before UAE in November. I hope he makes his way back to Celta Viga next season though, he is much better off there than in the reserve side of a 2nd Bundesliga team. Make the ball run, so you don't have to. -Johan Cruyff Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Ref Posted July 6, 2003 Share Posted July 6, 2003 With two more and the staff can field a team too! Holger can play sweeper. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cheeta Posted July 6, 2003 Share Posted July 6, 2003 quote:Originally posted by Luis_Rancagua I viewed UK's Football-Tranfers website for any hot rumours on David Xausa, and it appears that Xausa may perhaps stay in Livingston after all. His name doesn't appear to be the target of any trade-offs to Falkirk nor any other club across the UK. David had his troubles finding the pitch last year as things were even though I think he didn't have too bad a campain but there's a new coach coming into Livingston and as Xausa's in Canada with his countrymen and not trying to impress the new Gaffer I'm guessing it's in David's mind that it's time to move through the door that's been left open for him by Livi and pursue other options. If worse comes to worse he can collect a paycheck from the sub's bench but I wouldn't want to make that a career myself. Limited playing time last year. Allowed to talk to other clubs this year. Bringing in a new signing who plays your position (a player MINUTES away from going to Partick by the way). Yeah, my future's bright here. Says everthing. Kinda like the kid you trained leap frogging over you for a promotion. Thanks for the vote of confidense, boss.[xx(] "Minority of one" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cheeta Posted July 6, 2003 Share Posted July 6, 2003 quote:Originally posted by Luis_Rancagua I viewed UK's Football-Tranfers website for any hot rumours on David Xausa, and it appears that Xausa may perhaps stay in Livingston after all. His name doesn't appear to be the target of any trade-offs to Falkirk nor any other club across the UK. David had his troubles finding the pitch last year as things were even though I think he didn't have too bad a campain but there's a new coach coming into Livingston and as Xausa's in Canada with his countrymen and not trying to impress the new Gaffer I'm guessing it's in David's mind that it's time to move through the door that's been left open for him by Livi and pursue other options. If worse comes to worse he can collect a paycheck from the sub's bench but I wouldn't want to make that a career myself. Limited playing time last year. Allowed to talk to other clubs this year. Bringing in a new signing who plays your position (a player MINUTES away from going to Partick by the way). Yeah, my future's bright here. Says everthing. Kinda like the kid you trained leap frogging over you for a promotion. Thanks for the vote of confidense, boss.[xx(] "Minority of one" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gordon Posted July 7, 2003 Share Posted July 7, 2003 quote:Originally posted by Jeffrey S. I an say for Daniel that first off, you are right. He had two good games for Canada vs. Germany and then went for Oporto to a tournament and was voted best keeper, all in spring 2002. This is when he nailed a German agent, a fairly strong fellow who happens to have players in Bundesliga, at Ajax, knows Spain well enough. Going to Celta Vigo may not have had to do with the agent though, as teams in that region of Spain watch Portuguese players closely, the language Gallego is essentially old Portuguese mixed with Spanish. Dani simply wanted some playing time before the World Youth Cup and wasn't willing to wait things out at Celta. I think he erred, as his national team commitments are so great until Xmas that it is unreasonable to think he can hold down a starter's spot until then. In any case his agent went about looking for alternatives, and he also had other people offering him possible loans or transfers (one Spanish team that just promoted to 2nd division, for example). Simply put he was looking for games to help prepare the confidence factor before UAE in November. I hope he makes his way back to Celta Viga next season though, he is much better off there than in the reserve side of a 2nd Bundesliga team. Make the ball run, so you don't have to. -Johan Cruyff Was Daniel feeling some pressure to get playing time from the Canadian camp? Is it pressure he is putting on himself, and did the experience he had at the Qualifying tournament have any influence on this? From your reports Jeffrey, it sounded like he had a good arrangement at Celta Viga and I find it tough to think that playing in the German 4th is a better gig for him. The opinions expressed above are just that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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