2026 WC Bid?

[Joe MacCarthy]

As of now we have 8 confirmed stadiums we can work with

Vancouver - BC Place (1983 - refurb 2011)

Edmonton - Commonwealth Stadium (1978 - renos 1982/2001/2010/2013)

Saskatchewan - New stadium (2017)

Winnipeg - Investor's Group Field (2013)

Toronto - Rogers' Centre (1989)

Ottawa - Frank Clair Stadium (2015)

Hamilton - Pan Am/Ivor Wynne Stadium (2014)

Montreal - Olympic Stadium (1976 - reconfigs)

Calgary Flames (majority owner of Stamps) now looking at new arena and stadium.

Pretty cool that starting with BC Place, it's almost like we're getting a new stadium a year for the next five years.

[Joe MacCarthy]

Judging by some of the comments from the CBC site regarding the Regina stadium, people don't seem too happy about it. Hopefully it will not get shot down when Fiacco gets replaced.

The usual hate the incumbent politician crowd pretending they care about fixing the roads, low income housing and building new hospitals. How come they never seem to whine about other "non essential" structures as museums, libraries or theatres.

[Roger miller]

Apparently there were 5 stadiums with a Bermuda grass blend and 4 with a Kentucky Bluegrass blend.

Yes, i recall that (aside from the silverdome) the quality of the grass and surfaces at USA 94, was universally praised and applauded. And, regarded by players and officials as some of best grass and surfaces that they had ever played on. Note that WC 94 was played in off season months for NFL and college football.

Alot people might not be aware of this, but there are few places in world where you can find the same high quality of grass (no i am not talking about the illegal kind) as what you get in Canada and the United states. Even at San siro, they cant get grass to grow and be of the quality that we get in North america. They have to work much harder at it. In most of europe, Kentucky bluegrass is viewed at with envy. We can make fantastic natural surfaces in canada. That is if we want to.

And that would be a plus for Canada in any world cup bid.

Edit:in my travels to europe (in the mediterean), i recall lousy grass in public areas. Nothing like you see here. Hell another thing to be proud of, canadians and americans have lawns that are the envy of the world. Just look at the golf course in Canada/US compared to what you see overseas.

[matthew]

The usual hate the incumbent politician crowd pretending they care about fixing the roads, low income housing and building new hospitals. How come they never seem to whine about other "non essential" structures as museums, libraries or theatres.

I don’t live in Regina any more, but this stadium is an absolute travesty. Originally they were going to build a 40-42,000 seat stadium with a dome. The feasibility of a year-round stadium was absolutely asinine (there are a handful of bands who would need 50,000 capacity in Regina for a concert and those precious few tour in the summer. Also there are a handful of buildings perfectly sized for trade shows/boat and RV sales and the like on the Exhibition Grounds already).

Then they opened it to possibly being open air and planned to build it on a lot of old railway land not far from downtown. It was seen to be part of a revitalization of that area which already has potential.

So now they’re building an open air stadium, at the same capacity as the current stadium and building it on the Exhibition Grounds blocks from where the current stadium is.

The city and province said it would cost $150M to refurbish Taylor Field (I won’t call it Mosaic Stadium, sorry, Piffles Taylor was a war hero and it’s still his house IMO). I would LOVE to see that report. I have played there, I was a season ticket holder there and I have worked there. There is little wrong with Taylor Field. The accessibility when it comes to loading in for TV crews plus loading in food for concessions is far from idea. The luxury boxes they’ve constructed aren’t bad, but not great. There concourse is crowded, the lines are long and the bathrooms are small. If they can prove there is something structurally wrong with the foundation of the stands, then I would be more on board with the need of building new, but they seem to be throwing out an insanely high number to justify building a new stadium.

That’s about it. It has loads of character (which they’ve worked hard to kill for 10 years) and they’re basically proposing to replace it with the same stadium. Going to Fenway Park reminded me of being at Taylor Field.

The vacancy rate in Regina is 0.6% Let that sink in. And trust me you couldn’t pay me to live in any of those 0.6% Simply put there’s nowhere to live. Which is why you’re paying more to live in Regina than you would to live in Montreal.

The current civic government has pushed for expansion towards the suburbs meaning the city’s core has changed drastically in the last decade. Grocery stores, movie theatres, department stores have all been relocated out to the sticks.

There are plenty of needs and issues the city could be throwing this money behind.

And this is the kicker for me. . . they plan to build housing on the Taylor Field site and using this as their card to appease everyone who complains about urban development (since the whole revitalize the rail yards plan has been scrapped) and the lack of housing. I’m sure most of you have never been to Taylor Field, but it’s just northwest of the downtown core in North Central — a neighbourhood with numerous social problems that involve, gangs, drugs, teenage prostitution, etc. Macleans’ called it “The Worst Neighbourhood in Canada.” (http://www.macleans.ca/article.jsp?content=20070115_139375_139375).

Their solution to the housing crisis is to build housing (possibly high rises!) in the middle of the worst neighbourhood in town? So we’re spending $73M as a city and taking out a $100M loan to build a football stadium and the grand plan is to increase population density in the worst part of town without addressing any of the socio-economic issues that make that area so rife with problems. I can’t see how it could fail!

The mayor has announced he’s not seeking re-election and he’s not even attending council meetings all that often apparently. But this is his legacy and one of his cronies is almost a lock to replace him, so I can’t see this not going through though it is very divisive.

I’m a lifelong Riders fan, the stadium is going to have a canopy over most (maybe all) of the stands. I’m sure it will be lovely. These kinds of decisions are why I’m not sure I will ever move home. The city is so different from the place I grew up and if the bottom ever falls out of our resource-based boom, there could be a harsh day of reckoning in Regina.

cheers,

matthew

[Tuscan]

Same can be said for Saskatoon. We'll never run out of potash or uranium though, so no worries Matty

[Scottie]

Calgary Flames (majority owner of Stamps) now looking at new arena and stadium.

Not to be a pessimist, but I'll believe it when an official announcement is made. Also, I'd put good money on the flames building a new hockey arena before a football stadium, and I'd also put good money on them waiting until the new Edmonton arena (which is a bit of a gong show at the moment) is done. We've been hearing those kinds of things from both the flames and stamps ownership for years now, about how they'd like to build new facilities. That's completely different from actually drawing up the plans and securing the funding.

[Joe MacCarthy]

There's two ways to get federal money (in the present environment) to build a stadium. One is on a university campus ie Winnipeg and two as a host for a major international games ie Hamilton. If Calgary was interested, here is the opportunity for a new stadium for the Stamps and Dinos. When it comes to getting something like this built in Canada, 10 years isn't necessarily a long way away.

Canada making a pitch for 2022 Commonwealth Games

Randy Boswell, Postmedia News February 6, 2012

Five years after Halifax's embarrassing, 11th-hour pullout from the race to host the 2014 Commonwealth Games, the international sporting event's top Canadian official has begun laying the groundwork for a new bid to stage the Games in this country in 2022.

Commonwealth Games Canada chief executive Brian MacPherson told Postmedia News on Monday that he has received expressions of interest already from "more than one" city hoping to welcome the Games to Canada for the fifth time since 1930.

"We're intending to bid," MacPherson said, noting that he has begun taking stock of opinion "internationally and domestically" — including the views of delegates from the world's 54 Commonwealth nations and the heads of international sports federations — on Canada's chances of winning the right to hold the 2022 Games, the host of which will be chosen by November 2015.

MacPherson first disclosed Canada's intentions to host the Games in an interview over the weekend with Inside The Games, the British-based media outlet that monitors developments among international sports organizations.

Seventy-one teams from the 54 Commonwealth nations typically compete in the Commonwealth Games, since Scotland, England and Wales, as well as various British overseas territories and other sub-national jurisdictions, send athletes under their own flags.

"We've had cities come to us and express interest, unsolicited, and it's more than one," said MacPherson, declining to name the potential Canadian hosts that have approached the Ottawa-based sports body.

"It sounds like so far away, but it's not from a process point of view," MacPherson said of the 10-year lead time for planning to host the Games. A key hurdle, he said, is the February 2014 deadline for candidate cities to file a formal notice with the international Commonwealth Games Federation.

And before that deadline arrives, he added, Commonwealth Games Canada would have to choose a single Canadian city from among several potential contenders to carry the Maple Leaf banner into the international selection process.

"It takes a year to stage a domestic bid process to pick that one city you want to move forward with to the international level," said MacPherson. "So hence, we're now doing our due diligence . . . because if we are going to bid, basically by this summer or fall would be the latest" to begin identifying the best Canadian city to nominate.

In March 2007, after Halifax had won the right to be Canada's candidate to host the 2014 Commonwealth Games, the city withdrew late in the international part of the process due to unforeseen budget concerns.

Canada's loss was Scotland's gain, as Glasgow was named the host city for the 2014 event.

The 2018 Commonwealth Games were recently awarded to Gold Coast, Australia.

MacPherson said Commonwealth Games Canada learned from the scuttled Halifax bid that the process of selecting a Canadian candidate must begin a full decade before the winning city actually hosts the competition.

He describes South Africa as "the wild card" when it comes to potential competitors for hosting the 2022 Games.

"From a region point of view, Africa holds the most votes and it's also a region that has never hosted a Commonwealth Games," said MacPherson, noting that South African officials have signalled the country's interest in holding the 2022 event but "they have not definitively said yes or no."

The 2010 Games in Delhi, India, sparked controversy over the initial readiness of the venue, but the staging of the event was, overall, deemed a success.

Canada hosted the inaugural "Empire" Games in 1930 in Hamilton, then held subsequent Commonwealth Games in Vancouver in 1954, in Edmonton in 1978 and Victoria in 1994.

But MacPherson said more than a quarter-century will have passed between the last time Canada hosted the Games in 1994 and the 2022 competition.

"For us in the Americas region, it's been a long time since there's been a Games in this region," he said, adding that the Conservative government also has set a national policy of trying to host two major international sporting events every decade.

With Vancouver having hosted the 2010 Winter Olympics and Toronto poised to stage the 2015 Pan-Am Games, MacPherson said holding the Commonwealth Games in Canada in 2022 would be "a natural fit from a timing and policy point of view."

[madmonte]

Dude McMahon stadium is already by the university. Don't know if there's room around there short of tearing the old stadium down, which makes no sense. By SAIT they built a small (understatement) soccer stadium just last couple years ... the infrastructure there is already hard to manage. U of C where McMahon is would be better infrastructure wise, but as I said, aside from where McMahon is?

Would be hard to convince the federal gov't that McMahon is no longer good enough.

[Tuscan]

I think the answer is to rename it Vince McMahon Stadium, then sue WWE for taking the name lol.

[Joe MacCarthy]

Dude McMahon stadium is already by the university. Don't know if there's room around there short of tearing the old stadium down, which makes no sense. By SAIT they built a small (understatement) soccer stadium just last couple years ... the infrastructure there is already hard to manage. U of C where McMahon is would be better infrastructure wise, but as I said, aside from where McMahon is? Would be hard to convince the federal gov't that McMahon is no longer good enough.

Dude, McMahon is owned by the university (McMahon Stadium Society). I don't think a games bid for a new stadium would give anybody any trouble replacing a by then 60 year old structure where there is already talk about its replacement. If there's money available Calgary should be looking at the possibility.

There's no cost certainty in refurbishing. You knock down a wall here and you don't know what you might find there. It's easier to start from scratch. It's not like McMahon is an iconic building, it's not the Rose Bowl or Fenway Park. I've seen many complaints about the concourses and all those things that go into extra revenue streams, I'm not sure if they are available (in quality or quantity) As I said, if there's money available they should go for it.

BTW the SAIT Soccer Stadium is pretty cool

[madmonte]

Dude, McMahon is owned by the university (McMahon Stadium Society). I don't think a games bid for a new stadium would give anybody any trouble replacing a by then 60 year old structure where there is already talk about its replacement. If there's money available Calgary should be looking at the possibility.

There's no cost certainty in refurbishing. You knock down a wall here and you don't know what you might find there. It's easier to start from scratch. It's not like McMahon is an iconic building, it's not the Rose Bowl or Fenway Park. I've seen many complaints about the concourses and all those things that go into extra revenue streams, I'm not sure if they are available (in quality or quantity) As I said, if there's money available they should go for it.

BTW the SAIT Soccer Stadium is pretty cool

Refurbishing yes, I can see. I believed you were insinuating building a brand new one. And I knew it was owned by the university. And I agree, the SAIT one IS very cool, just not a lot of seating! Drove past it the other day looks REALLY nice

[madmonte]

OH! Also...duuuuuudddde.

[Tuscan]

Any new news come out on this yet? Anyone working on an interview with Vic to get a bit more info from the horses mouth? (that said figuratively, not mockingly)

[Joe MacCarthy]

Refurbishing yes, I can see. I believed you were insinuating building a brand new one.

I'm not insinuating, I'm saying this is a good opportunity to build new. Calgary can and should do better because in a few years they are going to stand out in the game one of these things is not like the other. They will be looking like the poor in-laws.

Not that, that is a good reason to build a new stadium but this could be a good opportunity to get dollars that might not ordinarily be there. Then again, I have no idea if the Commonwealth Games would be attractive to Calgary. Unfortunately their time may have passed.

[madmonte]

I'm not insinuating, I'm saying this is a good opportunity to build new. Calgary can and should do better because in a few years they are going to stand out in the game one of these things is not like the other. They will be looking like the poor in-laws.

Not that, that is a good reason to build a new stadium but this could be a good opportunity to get dollars that might not ordinarily be there. Then again, I have no idea if the Commonwealth Games would be attractive to Calgary. Unfortunately their time may have passed.

Perhaps. It might be nice...not sure if they'll spend those kind of dollars.

[Joe MacCarthy]

Calgary can and should do better because in a few years they are going to stand out in the game one of these things is not like the other. They will be looking like the poor in-laws.

CFL boss calls for McMahon Stadium facelift

Calgary needs to catch up with upgrades in other cities, says Cohon

Kristen Odland, Calgary Herald July 19, 2012

...

So, what’s the latest news in Calgary?

“With the new ownership (the Calgary Flames), I think their focus is on figuring out a way that they can modernize or look for new opportunities for the franchise,” he said. “I think it’s in the early stages right now. But when you look across the country and see what everyone is doing, obviously they want to catch up.”

At the very least, an update, he said, is needed at McMahon Stadium.

“Listen, older venues like this do need it,” Cohon said. “I would absolutely be very supportive of them moving forward because of the challenges for recruiting players, attracting fans. The fans travel around the country and see new stadiums in Winnipeg, Saskatchewan, B.C., and Hamilton.

“We want to get that in one of the hearts of the league, right here in Calgary.”

[Joe MacCarthy]

Getting back on topic a bit, does anyone know where the old Mickey Mouse CSA World Cup bid pdf is. I may have a copy but can't upload it. With all the new stadiums being built and under consideration it would be interesting to compare the situation now to what they envisioned then.

Found it. Economic Feasibility Study for Canada Hosting the FIFA 2010 World Cup

The original document was called wcstudy-eng.pdf. With the changes at the CSA site I couldn't find it so I used the last available url for it and the 'ol Wayback Machine and voila. Please save it if you are interested in preserving the history.

And before the whiners get into full gear, yes, anyone who can read can see it (the bid) was done on the cheap. But you can also see the changes that have and will occur between then and the next five years.

The document gives us some idea of what is required to undertake hosting the World Cup.

Press release: CSA Pursues World Cup Soccer Bid

[Joe MacCarthy]

Uefa Guide to Quality Stadiums

[Joe MacCarthy]

Another piece in the puzzle

[fuzzx]

A new challenger enter the ring!

I'm a regular on Bigsoccer who has these same discussions , but this place is way more active. But lots of interesting discussion over there that may be of interest: Link

I am very excited by the potential for a Canadian bid and think we have a reasonable change at success.

First of all I should apologize for a translation mistake I made months ago that seems to have wormed its way all over the place. The Olympic Stadium will be renovated in the near future, but the Capacity will NOT be cut to 35k. It will remain the same but will be temporarily reducible to 35k (ie: Vancouver) when needed. My bad.

Also, that place has lots of room to grow. It's capacity is 66k with a massive gap on one end(baseball outfield) that can easily be filled with seats. I can imagine a $100 million+ retrofit similar to BC place that would make it perfect for a 70,000+ seat WC final.

The grass Artificial turf argument is a total red herring.

Seattle has sod installed every year for friendly's. Since a World cup would take place before CFL season, there is no reason why all the Stadia can't have their AT removed, grass added and later replaced. Total cost will be in the tens of millions.

Honestly the biggest challenge for our bid is one that has barely been mentioned: geography.

While US has done it before, and Russia and Brazil are also quite large, Canada has the greatest challenges. While not poor, our transportation infrastructure is less than ideal for the numbers and distance required. Luckily the economy has caused a cultural change in Europe. Because of financial issues no one country's bid is big enough, and so Euro 2020 could be spread across the continent

You will all be interested to hear that Russia just announced that its spending $19 Billion for the 2018 world cup. While 40% of this is for stadia, most of the rest is on transportation and hospitality. Also they have announced that ticket holders will be eligible for subsidies on air and trail fare. Canada has over $50 billion in transit projects currently budgeted, but this will have to increase even more so. I've posted lengthy responses at Big Soccer contextualizing the numbers. I don't know, should I repost them here?

[fuzzx]

Russia is spending $7.4 Billion on Stadia because so many of them are antiquated soviet relics. Brazil is spending $3.68 billion because of corruption and bureaucratic mismanagement. On the other hand, Germany spent just $1.87 billion on its 12 stadiums while ultra cheap labour meant South Africa spent $1.48 billion on 10 arenas.

a World Cup does not have to be a massive capital investment. We are much more like Germany, France or USA than we are like Japan/SK, Brazil or Russia.

[madmonte]

Russia is spending $7.4 Billion on Stadia because so many of them are antiquated soviet relics. Brazil is spending $3.68 billion because of corruption and bureaucratic mismanagement. On the other hand, Germany spent just $1.87 billion on its 12 stadiums while ultra cheap labour meant South Africa spent $1.48 billion on 10 arenas.

a World Cup does not have to be a massive capital investment. We are much more like Germany, France or USA than we are like Japan/SK, Brazil or Russia.

Well...in terms of having a lot of great soccer stadiums...we are nowhere near Germany, France, or USA. Although in that regard we are definitely a lot closer than we were 10 years ago! But yeah, no, I disagree with you...we are not much more like Germany or France or USA...in terms of soccer stadiums we may even be behind a couple of the countries you mentioned that DID spend a lot.

[fuzzx]

While we are nowhere near the US, we are much closer to all the other recent World Cups than you think.

Take a look at what Joe has put together at the New Canadian stadiums thread:

Past world cup venues:

2010 FIFA World Cup South Africa (10 sites)

Johannesburg - Soccer City (Capacity: 84,490)

Cape Town - Cape Town Stadium (Capacity: 64,100)

Durban - Moses Mabhida Stadium (Capacity: 62,760)

Johannesburg - Ellis Park Stadium (Capacity: 55,686)

Pretoria - Loftus Versfeld Stadium (Capacity: 42,858)

Port Elizabeth - Nelson Mandela Bay Stadium (Capacity: 42,486)

Polokwane - Peter Mokaba Stadium (Capacity: 41,733)

Nelspruit - Mbombela Stadium (Capacity: 40,929)

Bloemfontein - Free State Stadium (Capacity: 40,911)

Rustenburg - Royal Bafokeng Stadium (Capacity: 38,646)

2006 FIFA World Cup Germany (12 sites)

Berlin - Olympiastadion (Capacity: 74,176)

Dortmund - Signal Iduna Park (Capacity: 67,000)

Munich - Allianz Arena (Capacity: 66,016)

Stuttgart - Gottlieb-Daimler-Stadion (Capacity: 54,267)

Gelsenkirchen - Veltins-Arena (Capacity: 53,804)

Hamburg - AOL Arena (Capacity: 51,055)

Frankfurt - Commerzbank Arena (Capacity: 48,132)

Cologne - RheinEnergie Stadion (Capacity: 46,134)

Hannover - AWD-Arena (Capacity: 44,652)

Leipzig - Zentralstadion (Capacity: 44,199)

Kaiserslautern - Fritz Walter Stadion (Capacity: 43,450)

Nuremberg - EasyCredit-Stadion (Capacity: 41,926)

1998 FIFA World Cup France (10 sites)

Saint-Denis - Stade de France (Capacity: 80,000)

Marseille - Stade Vélodrome (Capacity: 60,000 )

Paris - Parc des Princes (Capacity: 49,000)

Lens - Stade Félix Bollaert (Capacity: 44,000)

Lyon - Stade de Gerland (Capacity: 41,300)

Nantes - Stade de la Beaujoire (Capacity: 39,500)

Toulouse - Stadium de Toulouse (Capacity: 37,000)

Saint-Étienne - Stade Geoffroy-Guichard (Capacity: 36,000)

Bordeaux - Parc Lescure (Capacity: 35,200)

Montpellier - Stade de la Mosson (Capacity: 34,000)

Canada

As of now we have 8 confirmed stadiums we can work with

Montreal - Olympic Stadium - varies 56-66,000 (1976 - reconfigs)

Vancouver - BC Place - 54,000 (1983 - refurb 2011)

Edmonton - Commonwealth Stadium - 52,000 (1978 - renos 1982/2001/2010/2013)

Toronto - Rogers' Centre - varies 52,000 (1989)

Winnipeg - Investor's Group Field - 33,500 expandable to 40,000 (2013)

Saskatchewan - New stadium - 33,000 expandable to 40,000 (2017)

Ottawa - Frank Clair Stadium - 24,000 expandable to 40,000 (2015)

Hamilton - Pan Am/Ivor Wynne Stadium - 22,500 expandable to 40,000 (2014)

Calgary Flames (majority owner of Stamps) now looking at new arena and stadium.

Korea/Japan, with 19 of 20 (!) stadiums built brand new, is the exception not the rule. But even with unlimited resources, most stadium 10 of 20 are under 45,000.

And if you add in Mexico, who at the moment seems to be the most likely competition:

1 Estadio Azteca (105,000)

2 Estadio Olímpico Universitario (63,186)

3 Estadio Jalisco (56,713)

4 Estadio Omnilife (49,850)

6 Estadio Morelos (41,500)

7 Estadio Universitario (45,531)

8 Estadio Azul (35,907)

9 Estadio La Corregidora (34,130)

10 Estadio Nou Camp (33,943)

They are largely equivalent to us, if not behind us, since our stadiums are designed to be easily expandable while those listed here are complete bowls that are much more challenging to retrofit.

Really the only conclusion that matters is that if we work at it, we can submit a credible bid that can meet all the demands FIFA will ask. Anything more than that we can't control and as such should simple not worry about.

[fuzzx]

Personally my greatest concern is not how many stadiums we have that meet the minimum (like you see above with 2 more Ivor Wynne/Frank Claire class venues in QC and Moncton/Halifax we'll be fine), but how many larger venues we have for later round matches.

While the group stages can be done with 40,000-45,000 seats. The knockout round requirements are more stringent.

We only have 3 venues that can hold over 50,000: BC place(60,000), Olympic Stadium(65,000) and Commonwealth Stadium(which in my opinion could be expanded to over 80,000 for such a big event ). While France did it with 3, I think at least one more venue of this size will be needed for a successful bid. Realistically this can only be Toronto. The fact that the Argos are currently treading water in the craphole (pointy/round football-wise) of Rogers Center is potentially of great benefit, though their quest for a new home has been less than fruitful. Their current plans are for a small stadium, but I'm hoping that if their plans continue to fail for a few more years The opportunity may arise for what we need for 2026.

In my opinion the success of failure of this whole endeavour rides on having a 4th 55,000+ facility in Toronto... God help us all.

[madmonte]

I'll accept that. I was under the premise of soccer specific stadiums but football stadiums can be converted very well and work, I agree with that.